Need advice on dual wield cleric

[zzou0924]

I'm really interested in playing a dual wield cleric but not sure if it would work well...
I don't expect him to be a dps machine while being able to heal efficiently, but neither will I be happy to see him unable to do anything well enough. I don't really care if he is a healer or a DPS, just think it'd be fun to try this idea out.
Anyone has built this kind of character before? Is this even worth a try? Should I take TWF & longsword enhancement? And advice would be nice!

[grodon9999]

I'm really interested in playing a dual wield cleric but not sure if it would work well...
I don't expect him to be a dps machine while being able to heal efficiently, but neither will I be happy to see him unable to do anything well enough. I don't really care if he is a healer or a DPS, just think it'd be fun to try this idea out.
Anyone has built this kind of character before? Is this even worth a try? Should I take TWF & longsword enhancement? And advice would be nice!

it's fine, you will not do as much damage as a "real" melee but you'll be okay. Mine has 2 levels of monk and i use vorpal/stat-damaging kamas in wind-stance. On everything that isn't red-named he rips them apart, red-named bosses he sits back and heals. Against trash most of the time I'm swinging away with the melee, I just center mass heals on me and tell them to stay close. Some of them may die, but it is a sacrifice i am willing to make.

When it comes to raids i heal. That's what you are there for. bad pugs that require a nanny-bot, I leave.

Clerics can fight, heal, or offensively cast. Pick two because the feats will stretch you a little thin.

[holfrar]

ok i'm fairly new at this, but i currently have a Human 12 cleric/1 fighter/1 rogue build

now i took the 1 rogue as i solo a fair bit. so you can drop that and take 2 in fighter (which will give you fighter-str bonus)

But i use twin longswords, used TWF feat as bonus human at start and OTWF as my bonus fighter feat.

took the longsword enhancement and he works pretty well. add in an extended divine power/favor and he can wade in with best of them.

thing is are you 28 or 32 point build? as having to take 15 dex for TWF you need a high strength as well if you plan to melee, unless you want to use a feat for WF (which given the amount of feats clerics get IMO would be a waste)

you may need to sacrifice a bit of con or don't touch INT+CHA

stats would be 28pt

Str -14
dex - 15
con - 12
int - 8
Wis - 16
cha - 8

if you have 32 i would put them either all in int or 2 int/2 con

they can work well in groups i tend to jump in to start and make a few hits, then jump out looking to heal. i can solo most quests as you can fight/buff/heal yourself.

I enjoy the build give it a try you can always reroll if need be

[Lymnus]

Well, before I can get too specific, I have to have two questions answered. The main question is, "Dex or Str based?"

No matter how you cut it, you'll have to hit at least 15 dex for the TWF feats (unless you were just going for TWF, but regardless). Since you're going as a melee cleric, you probably don't have a huge focus on casting. For this reason, it's plausible to start with 16 Wis, rather than 18 Wis. This saves up 6 points; we've used 18 at this point. For survivability purposes, I'd recommend starting with a 14 Con. A decently equipped Cleric whom started at 14 Con ends up with 400-450 HP, both plausible numbers.

So, here's where your decision really comes in. Sitting at 8/15/14/8/16/8, we've burned 24 points. If your Str based, it's completely pragmatic to put the remainder of your points into Str. This hits you at 15/15/14/8/16/8. Assuming level ups into Str, you're going to sit around:


15 base
5 levels
6 item
3 exceptional
3 tome
1 litany
1 human enhancement
-------
34

That's not too high, and YMMV.

Dex based is a little bit different. You probably still want to take power attack, so you'll take at least 11 Str (11+2 for Power Attack's pre-req). 14/16/14/8/16/8 is a perfectly reasonable stat distribution if you're more into being balanced, since having 11 Str and dumping the rest into Dex ends up with 11/17/14/8/16/8. But, your character.

Feat choices are pretty simple, assuming human:
1st: Empower Healing
1st: Extend Spell
3rd: EWP: Khopesh (Str)/Weapon Finesse (Dex)
6th: TWF
9th: Quicken Spell
12th: ITWF
15th: Power Attack
18th: GTWF

You could swap out Khopesh for Toughness if you're STR based. Multiclassing into a 17 Clr/2 Mnk/1 Ftr is a good path for this build; it opens up 3 feats. If you do this, you can grab Toughness, Lightning Reflexes (to help your Evasion), and Maximize Spell (by using Power Attack as a fighter bonus, for example).

Hope that helped a bit. I'll try to answer any questions.

[zzou0924]

Thank you for your replies :)

I don't have monk unlocked or 32 points build --would consider getting them later but now I have problems buying TP...

So it's better to multiclass my cleric right? I'm still trying to figure out how multiclassing works in DDO. Longsword sounds cool, and I'd like him to be able to do some DPS & occasionally heal the others. Group control or offensive spells might make things a little too complicated anyway so I should skip feats like spell penetration right?

[zzou0924]

Well, before I can get too specific, I have to have two questions answered. The main question is, "Dex or Str based?"

No matter how you cut it, you'll have to hit at least 15 dex for the TWF feats (unless you were just going for TWF, but regardless). Since you're going as a melee cleric, you probably don't have a huge focus on casting. For this reason, it's plausible to start with 16 Wis, rather than 18 Wis. This saves up 6 points; we've used 18 at this point. For survivability purposes, I'd recommend starting with a 14 Con. A decently equipped Cleric whom started at 14 Con ends up with 400-450 HP, both plausible numbers.

So, here's where your decision really comes in. Sitting at 8/15/14/8/16/8, we've burned 24 points. If your Str based, it's completely pragmatic to put the remainder of your points into Str. This hits you at 15/15/14/8/16/8. Assuming level ups into Str, you're going to sit around:


15 base
5 levels
6 item
3 exceptional
3 tome
1 litany
1 human enhancement
-------
34

That's not too high, and YMMV.

Dex based is a little bit different. You probably still want to take power attack, so you'll take at least 11 Str (11+2 for Power Attack's pre-req). 14/16/14/8/16/8 is a perfectly reasonable stat distribution if you're more into being balanced, since having 11 Str and dumping the rest into Dex ends up with 11/17/14/8/16/8. But, your character.

Feat choices are pretty simple, assuming human:
1st: Empower Healing
1st: Extend Spell
3rd: EWP: Khopesh (Str)/Weapon Finesse (Dex)
6th: TWF
9th: Quicken Spell
12th: ITWF
15th: Power Attack
18th: GTWF

You could swap out Khopesh for Toughness if you're STR based. Multiclassing into a 17 Clr/2 Mnk/1 Ftr is a good path for this build; it opens up 3 feats. If you do this, you can grab Toughness, Lightning Reflexes (to help your Evasion), and Maximize Spell (by using Power Attack as a fighter bonus, for example).

Hope that helped a bit. I'll try to answer any questions.

Thank you very much!

I'm new to DDO so...well, what's the difference between STR based and DEX based? I'm sorry to ask a pretty basic question here...let's see if my understanding is correct -- so different weapons have different stat modifiers? I think a bow's damage is decided by DEX. But are there any melee weapons that are DEX based too?

What weapon will I be using if I'm DEX based? Is it a waste for a cleric to have really high DEX? I mean, not for the damage, but since clerics can ignore the armor penalty and wear heavy armor, DEX won't be too useful right?

[Lymnus]

So it's better to multiclass my cleric right?
It helps. Clerics don't get class-granted feats. Fighters get one at 1st and every even level.


I'm still trying to figure out how multiclassing works in DDO.
It's a question of what you get and what you lose. Some classes are back heavy (which means they get their best abilities as 19 and 20), so you don't really want to multiclass them. Some classes are front heavy (they get their best abilities at 1-3), so they're a good option to, "dip," into.


Longsword sounds cool...
Scimitars are better than longswords; khopeshes are ideal. However, khopeshes are more expensive (and with good reason: they're the most damaging one-handed weapon in the game).


Group control or offensive spells might make things a little too complicated anyway so I should skip feats like spell penetration right?
It's not too complicated. You'll have to learn offensive casting. But, your offensive casting will be in the form of Cometfalls and Blade Barriers which are not subject to spell resistance. At lower levels, throwing out Commands on Ogres and Hold Persons on Hobgoblins (which enables insta-crits on every hit) is a sign of a good cleric.

[tihocan]

Thank you very much!

I'm new to DDO so...well, what's the difference between STR based and DEX based? I'm sorry to ask a pretty basic question here...let's see if my understanding is correct -- so different weapons have different stat modifiers? I think a bow's damage is decided by DEX. But are there any melee weapons that are DEX based too?

What weapon will I be using if I'm DEX based? Is it a waste for a cleric to have really high DEX? I mean, not for the damage, but since clerics can ignore the armor penalty and wear heavy armor, DEX won't be too useful right?
Str-based deals more damage (higher base damage, and ability to use all weapons, while Dex-based is limited to light weapons and rapier).
Dex-based offers more AC (only meaningful if you really focus on it, which on a Cleric means splashing Monk), higher Reflex saves (always good, but mostly if you splash 2 levels of Monk or Rogue for Evasion), and potentially higher to-hit (it is easier to start with max Dex than max Str on a TWF character, and some races give Dex bonuses, while currently no race gives any Str bonus).

[lorkar]

Thank you for your replies :)

I don't have monk unlocked or 32 points build --would consider getting them later but now I have problems buying TP...

So it's better to multiclass my cleric right? I'm still trying to figure out how multiclassing works in DDO. Longsword sounds cool, and I'd like him to be able to do some DPS & occasionally heal the others. Group control or offensive spells might make things a little too complicated anyway so I should skip feats like spell penetration right?

what do you mean, there are paid characters mode that gives more points in build?
omg

[zzou0924]

If I have "extra" points I'd probably put them into INT to raise it to 10, because I believe having read somewhere that an average human has 10 INT so my character would be a little stupid if his INT score is lower than that...well.

[Thorzian]

its not the damage but the chance to hit that makes you dex based or strength based. all ranged weapons rely on your dex modifier to hit, all melee on your strength. now having said that there are feats that can change this. weapon finesse will transform your to-hit from strength to dex for many weapons including rapiers, shortswords, daggers, sickles, light maces, and a few others. many rogues go this route since the majority of their damage is sneak attack anyway and they have a high dex anyway.


as far as a dual wielding cleric goes... the only advice i have is dont do it. in all honesty the dps is nowhere near what a fighter or barb could do and if you're a big fan of the self healing, caster damage idea who can solo **** near anything then a favored soul or warforged caster is a better idea then a cleric. just my 2 cents.

[Thorzian]

what do you mean, there are paid characters mode that gives more points in build?
omg

you can either buy 32 point builds with turbine points or unlock them with 1750 total favor

[gwlech]

Well, before I can get too specific, I have to have two questions answered. The main question is, "Dex or Str based?"

No matter how you cut it, you'll have to hit at least 15 dex for the TWF feats (unless you were just going for TWF, but regardless). Since you're going as a melee cleric, you probably don't have a huge focus on casting. For this reason, it's plausible to start with 16 Wis, rather than 18 Wis. This saves up 6 points; we've used 18 at this point. For survivability purposes, I'd recommend starting with a 14 Con. A decently equipped Cleric whom started at 14 Con ends up with 400-450 HP, both plausible numbers.

So, here's where your decision really comes in. Sitting at 8/15/14/8/16/8, we've burned 24 points. If your Str based, it's completely pragmatic to put the remainder of your points into Str. This hits you at 15/15/14/8/16/8. Assuming level ups into Str, you're going to sit around:


15 base
5 levels
6 item
3 exceptional
3 tome
1 litany
1 human enhancement
-------
34

That's not too high, and YMMV.

Dex based is a little bit different. You probably still want to take power attack, so you'll take at least 11 Str (11+2 for Power Attack's pre-req). 14/16/14/8/16/8 is a perfectly reasonable stat distribution if you're more into being balanced, since having 11 Str and dumping the rest into Dex ends up with 11/17/14/8/16/8. But, your character.

Feat choices are pretty simple, assuming human:
1st: Empower Healing
1st: Extend Spell
3rd: EWP: Khopesh (Str)/Weapon Finesse (Dex)
6th: TWF
9th: Quicken Spell
12th: ITWF
15th: Power Attack
18th: GTWF

You could swap out Khopesh for Toughness if you're STR based. Multiclassing into a 17 Clr/2 Mnk/1 Ftr is a good path for this build; it opens up 3 feats. If you do this, you can grab Toughness, Lightning Reflexes (to help your Evasion), and Maximize Spell (by using Power Attack as a fighter bonus, for example).

Hope that helped a bit. I'll try to answer any questions.

I would personally drop emp heal and get maximize. Even a melee cleric will benefit profoundly from maximized blade barriers.

[zzou0924]

It helps. Clerics don't get class-granted feats. Fighters get one at 1st and every even level.


It's a question of what you get and what you lose. Some classes are back heavy (which means they get their best abilities as 19 and 20), so you don't really want to multiclass them. Some classes are front heavy (they get their best abilities at 1-3), so they're a good option to, "dip," into.


Scimitars are better than longswords; khopeshes are ideal. However, khopeshes are more expensive (and with good reason: they're the most damaging one-handed weapon in the game).


It's not too complicated. You'll have to learn offensive casting. But, your offensive casting will be in the form of Cometfalls and Blade Barriers which are not subject to spell resistance. At lower levels, throwing out Commands on Ogres and Hold Persons on Hobgoblins (which enables insta-crits on every hit) is a sign of a good cleric.

Thank you again :) I only casted cure wounds and some defensive spells when grouping with people. I really should learn how to be a good cleric...

Then I'll choose scimitars. I've never been rich in any MMORPG :(

[Lymnus]

I'm new to DDO so...well, what's the difference between STR based and DEX based?
When you're swinging a weapon, two things happen: an attack roll and a damage roll. They're referred to as rolls because the game is actually rolling a 20 sided die when it's performing these calculations.

The attack roll comes first. Consider it your accuracy. If what you roll is higher than your target's AC (Armor Class), you hit them. If you roll a natural 20 on an attack roll, you get a critical hit. Other numbers (19-20 for a longsword, for example) can result in a critical hit. The attack roll is affected by Str under almost all circumstances. the only time it's controlled by Dex is when you have the feat Weapon Finesse and are using a light weapon. Light weapons are like daggers, shortswords, and rapiers. These are weapons that focus more on precision than brute force; using Dex rather than Str represents this.

The damage roll occurs after you successfully hit your target. It is ALWAYS determined by Str.


What weapon will I be using if I'm DEX based?
Rapiers. Shortswords. Light maces/hammers. They tend to do less damage but crit more often (1d6 18-20 rather than 1d8 19-20, for example).


Is it a waste for a cleric to have really high DEX? I mean, not for the damage, but since clerics can ignore the armor penalty and wear heavy armor, DEX won't be too useful right?
Here's where things get skewed. If you're going TWF, you need a 17 DEX to get GTWF. So, no matter what, you'll need to invest at least a 15 DEX (15 base+2 tome). If you continue investing in DEX, you don't have to become too MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent). If you decide to go STR based, you have to still have at least 15 Dex. All of my numbers in the previous post assumed 32-point buy. If you gave me the race and Str/Dex preference, I can make you a quick sample.

[zzou0924]

its not the damage but the chance to hit that makes you dex based or strength based. all ranged weapons rely on your dex modifier to hit, all melee on your strength. now having said that there are feats that can change this. weapon finesse will transform your to-hit from strength to dex for many weapons including rapiers, shortswords, daggers, sickles, light maces, and a few others. many rogues go this route since the majority of their damage is sneak attack anyway and they have a high dex anyway.


as far as a dual wielding cleric goes... the only advice i have is dont do it. in all honesty the dps is nowhere near what a fighter or barb could do and if you're a big fan of the self healing, caster damage idea who can solo **** near anything then a favored soul or warforged caster is a better idea then a cleric. just my 2 cents.

Thank you for explaining this to me :)

I can't get favored soul now...and I really like clerics. Will my offensive spells compensate my inability to do good DPS?

[zzou0924]

When you're swinging a weapon, two things happen: an attack roll and a damage roll. They're referred to as rolls because the game is actually rolling a 20 sided die when it's performing these calculations.

The attack roll comes first. Consider it your accuracy. If what you roll is higher than your target's AC (Armor Class), you hit them. If you roll a natural 20 on an attack roll, you get a critical hit. Other numbers (19-20 for a longsword, for example) can result in a critical hit. The attack roll is affected by Str under almost all circumstances. the only time it's controlled by Dex is when you have the feat Weapon Finesse and are using a light weapon. Light weapons are like daggers, shortswords, and rapiers. These are weapons that focus more on precision than brute force; using Dex rather than Str represents this.

The damage roll occurs after you successfully hit your target. It is ALWAYS determined by Str.


Rapiers. Shortswords. Light maces/hammers. They tend to do less damage but crit more often (1d6 18-20 rather than 1d8 19-20, for example).


Here's where things get skewed. If you're going TWF, you need a 17 DEX to get GTWF. So, no matter what, you'll need to invest at least a 15 DEX (15 base+2 tome). If you continue investing in DEX, you don't have to become too MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent). If you decide to go STR based, you have to still have at least 15 Dex. All of my numbers in the previous post assumed 32-point buy. If you gave me the race and Str/Dex preference, I can make you a quick sample.

I'll go with human cleric, and DEX based seems preferable to me. I'll probably get the 32 points build through favor then respec his stats.

[tihocan]

I'll go with human cleric, and DEX based seems preferable to me. I'll probably get the 32 points build through favor then respec his stats.
- Dex-based on Human seems a bit suboptimal since Human don't get many bonuses to increase Dex
- Going Dex-based means spending a Feat on Weapon Finesse, on a feat-starved build like a TWF cleric this may be difficult to fit (TWF/ITWF/GTWF/PA/IC/Finesse = 6 feats, i.e. only two left if you are staying pure Cleric, and you could want Toughness, Extend, Maximize and Quicken).
- Oh, and you'll have to buy a Greater Reincarnation token if you want to do a stat respec after getting 32 pt build (unless you do a True Reincarnation). Those tokens are quite expensive.