Sneak and Lever Pulling

[dragonruler]

Could you guys make it so that pulling levers doesn't break sneak? I mean I don't know about you but it doesn't seem that hard to stealthily pull a lever or open a door. Just a thought. Would be kinda nice for like rogues or other sneaky people like this guy....

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2002_Mr._Deeds/2002_mr_deeds_006.jpg (http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2002_Mr._Deeds/2002_mr_deeds_006.jpg)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Ehhh, no.
'Cause if I was hanging around, and a door suddenly opened, I'd look. And you can't hide when I'm looking right at you.

Had an Assassin try to pull this on us in tabletop. In a fight, a back door opens. We all turn and look, see nothing. Cleric casts Invisibilty Purge.
The Assassin never got another round of combat.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Not commiting one way or the other....just FYI.

Pulling levers make no noise, as long as you do not take even one step unstealthed after you pull the lever.

Monsters can only see in front of themselves.....not to the side or behind. In fact they have a very narrow front viewing arc.

They can generally not see through objects. (careful with that one though)

And if you are far enough away they will not see you either. (not sure what the range is, but I think it is about the default draw distance for your own graphics...if that helps.)

You can also make noise in various ways or distract monsters to make them look away from a lever you want to pull.......this takes a lot of practice though. Some monsters are easier to make look another direction then others. Some like to go back to the way they were facing before...
If I can get a lever without trying to move any mosters, that is my prefered method, since I find it easier.

So....what all of this means is...that if you are careful, you can pull a lever and not get noticed...even though it does pop you out of stealth.

You can also open doors from the side, so that monsters will not see you when you pop out of stealth as you open the door....the door frame will block their line of sight. (usually)

[Angelus_dead]

The usual suggestion is that interacting with such an object should temporarily put a large penalty on Hide and Move Silently.

The usual associated suggestion is that combining stealth movement with jumping, tumbling, or swimming should put a large temporary penalty on all involved skills.

[Autolycus]

I remember posting/replying about this several months ago. IMO, if pulling a lever breaks stealth, then attacking someone should also! If attacking someone does NOT break stealth, then neither should pulling a lever!

[ghettoGenius]

I remember posting/replying about this several months ago. IMO, if pulling a lever breaks stealth, then attacking someone should also! If attacking someone does NOT break stealth, then neither should pulling a lever!

IIRC this issue is being dealt with in U5. A successful assassinate will be the only exception.

[hockeyrama]

yea, u5 will change everything for a rogue. Unless you using assasination you will break stealth. Pull lever, attack someone or anything other then an assasination you will break it.

I think this is not the right way to go. First, rogues are already difficult to get into fights at high levels. Second once they lose stealth in high level they not going to be able to go back in. Third, it makes assasination line fine but gimps all other rogue lines for combat (as an assassin can still be effective in stealth). Fourth, it makes no sense. If you are basically invisible when sneaking then they should get a check to find you. If you sneak attack and stay still they should get a huge bonus to find you as they will search the right area. If you sneak and move and have very high skills then they would have a hard time as they looking in the wrong area. Think of the movies with predator. When it stayed still it was impossible to see. When it moved you could detect it. If it attacked and moved a bit you would have no idea of where to look and would never find it.

I also think levers shoud be the same area. It would alert the enemy to something there if they not doing anything else (example if you open a door at the back of a room while everyone is in combat then enemies will not notice that as they have more important things on their minds but if they just hanging in a room and you open the door they will know something is there and need to find it) and they would start actively searching.



I think instead of breaking the stealth it should be a bonus to detect and they would actively start looking. This is what makes sense. Picture, you in a house and the front door opens, you know someone is there. You run over and can't see them. (they hiding behind a fake bush right beside the door). After searching you figure it must be some kids playing a prank. You turn to go back in the rogue jumps out and gets to attack you in the back. This is how it should be considered.

[ghettoGenius]

yea, u5 will change everything for a rogue. Unless you using assasination you will break stealth. Pull lever, attack someone or anything other then an assasination you will break it.

I think this is not the right way to go. First, rogues are already difficult to get into fights at high levels. Second once they lose stealth in high level they not going to be able to go back in. Third, it makes assasination line fine but gimps all other rogue lines for combat (as an assassin can still be effective in stealth). Fourth, it makes no sense. If you are basically invisible when sneaking then they should get a check to find you. If you sneak attack and stay still they should get a huge bonus to find you as they will search the right area. If you sneak and move and have very high skills then they would have a hard time as they looking in the wrong area. Think of the movies with predator. When it stayed still it was impossible to see. When it moved you could detect it. If it attacked and moved a bit you would have no idea of where to look and would never find it.

I also think levers shoud be the same area. It would alert the enemy to something there if they not doing anything else (example if you open a door at the back of a room while everyone is in combat then enemies will not notice that as they have more important things on their minds but if they just hanging in a room and you open the door they will know something is there and need to find it) and they would start actively searching.



I think instead of breaking the stealth it should be a bonus to detect and they would actively start looking. This is what makes sense. Picture, you in a house and the front door opens, you know someone is there. You run over and can't see them. (they hiding behind a fake bush right beside the door). After searching you figure it must be some kids playing a prank. You turn to go back in the rogue jumps out and gets to attack you in the back. This is how it should be considered.

Actually I think this is a much better setup for rogues. I personally hate when I sneak up to assassinate a mob and he moves just at the last moment or maybe I just timed it wrong, but I end up staying in stealth making slow attacks. If it had just broken stealth I would have been at full attacking potential sooner. A small pet peeve of mine as I use assassinate alot in groups.

[KaKa]

I remember the outcry from players when they made opening doors break stealth back in open beta. Boy those were the days.

[Arcticwarrior]

Ehhh, no.
'Cause if I was hanging around, and a door suddenly opened, I'd look. And you can't hide when I'm looking right at you.

Had an Assassin try to pull this on us in tabletop. In a fight, a back door opens. We all turn and look, see nothing. Cleric casts Invisibilty Purge.
The Assassin never got another round of combat.

yep, it can't be done. unless you're the ketchup bottle in the fridge :P