Post U5 Dwarven Defender (Fighter) "The Striking Wall"

[Failedlegend]

Hey guys now that to-hits on mobs are being reduced, Dwarven Axes w/Shields are being improved and mob HPs are being reduced I figured it was a good time to bring back the AC Intimitank.

Only problem is I have no experience with a front-line fighter/defender so I'm hoping you guys can help me out. Especially with how much Dex for maximum AC...what to do with the remaining lvl (fighter 19 is kinda useless....and rogue 2 is mostly useless in heavy armor) and the feat order (as it was just sorta randomly punched in) and any other suggestions.

Anyways here's what I have so far...note that the feats aren't in any specific order...just that they are the ones I decided on.

Oh and does the armor mastery (for increasing max dex bonus) stack for fighter and Dwarf (ie. Armor Mastery 2 fighter + Armor mastery 1 dwarf = Armor Mastery 3)



True Neutral Dwarf Fighter18/Rogue1/????1 (THF/DA & Board)

Stats:

Str: 16+6(Item) +3(Fighter Str) +5(Lvls) +2 (Tome) = 32
Dex: 14+6(Item) = 20
Con: 14+6(Item) +2 (Dwarven Con) +2(Tome) = 24
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8+6(Item) = 14


Other Stats(w/o items):

HP:
SP:
Fort:
Reflex:
Will:
BAB:

Level/Feat Progression:

1 -Rogue- Combat Expertise
2 -Fighter- Dodge (FB)
3 -Fighter- Power Attack, Mobility (FB)
4 -Fighter- +Str
5 -Fighter- Shield Mastery (FB)
6 -Fighter- Toughness
7 -Fighter- Spring Attack (FB), S-Defender 1
8 -Fighter- +Str
9 -Fighter- SF:UMD, IC:Slashing (FB)
10 -Fighter-
11 -Fighter- Improved Shield Mastery (FB)
12 -Fighter- THF
13 -Fighter- Improved THF (FB), S-Defender 2
14 -Fighter-
15 -Fighter- Weapon Focus: Slashing, GTHF (FB)
16 -Fighter-
17 -Fighter- GWF: Slashing (FB)
18 -Fighter- Weapon Spec: Slashing
19 -Fighter- Greater WS: Slashing, S-Defender 3
20 -??????-


Skills:

1pt - Intim, Balance
2pt - UMD


UMD Calculations

28 ranks (Trained Ranks(23) + Cha Mod(2) + SF: UMD(3))
3 Bunny Hat/Cartouche
1 VoM
2 Cha SKill Bonus
---
34 Unbuffed/Easy Loot
1 Head of Good Fortune (+2 but Replaces VoM Bonus)
2 Seven Fingered Glove (+5 but Replaces Cartouche bonus so only +2)
3 Cha Skill bonus (+5 cloak or greensteel item but replaces +2 cha skill so only +3)
---
40 Unbuffed/ Great Loot
4 GH
---
44 Buffed w/ Great Loot

Enhancements:
Fighter AC Boost 3
Dwarf Axe Attack 1
Dwarf Axe Damage 2
Dwarf Con 2
Dwarf Shield Mastery 3
Fighter Armor Mastery 3
Crit Accuracy 1
Stalwart Defender 3
Fighter Tower Shield Mastery 3
Fighter DA Specialization 1
Fighter Item Defense 2
Dwarven Toughness
Fighter Intim 2
Fighter Str 3
Fighter Toughness 1





Here's the list of feats I think will work...all but Toughness & SF:UMD can be taken as Fighter Bonus Feats.

1 SF:UMD
2 Combat Expertise
3 Dodge
4 THF
5 ITHF
6 GTHF
7 Toughnes
8 Shield Mastery
9 Weapon Spec: Slashing
10 Weapon Focus: Slashing
11 GWS: Slash
12 GWF: Slash
13 SF: Intim
14 Imp Shield Mastery
15 Power Attack
16 IC:Slashing
17 Bullheaded

[donotdirect1]

In some ways you are kind of close to Big Rock Candy (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198820).

You should look there for some inspiration.

I would probably take intelligence down to it's minimum, 11+2 tome, to save a few points.

Good luck and I'd like to see some updates later when you've played this build.

[Mikula]

If your going AC tank you should take a look at the Grand Daddy of those builds: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116482

[Rezar4200]

Wouldn't it be better to make a Dwarven Defender with a mainly Paladin base?

As I understand it you can't take the Fighter PrC so you can't make a Stalward Defender PrC + Dwarven Defender PrC, but you can make a Defender of Siberys PrC + Dwarven Defender PrC.

I might very well be misinformed though.

Overall I believe a Paladin 18/Fighter 2 would be the best choice.

[Failedlegend]

Wouldn't it be better to make a Dwarven Defender with a mainly Paladin base?

As I understand it you can't take the Fighter PrC so you can't make a Stalward Defender PrC + Dwarven Defender PrC, but you can make a Defender of Siberys PrC + Dwarven Defender PrC.

I might very well be misinformed though.

Overall I believe a Paladin 18/Fighter 2 would be the best choice.

Dwarven Defender is not a PrE at least not in DDO....there's only Stalwart Defender & Defender of Siberys

[Rezar4200]

Oh my bad I thought I read somewhere that it was.

Also I would have assumed it counted as a Racial PrC like the Arcane Archer.

[unbongwah]

Right now AA is the only racial PrE in DDO. Usually when people talk about Dwarven Defenders, it's either on their wish list for future additions or in a "how can we recreate it using existing DDO classes & PrEs?" sense.

EDIT: BTW, I think rogue 2 / ftr 18 - i.e., a dwarven version of Big Rock Candy - is still a good combo. I also think rather than Dodge / Mobility / SA, you might want to squeeze in the TWF feats (after boosting your DEX, of course). Then you can switch between TWF w/DAxes for DPS and DAxes + tower shield for tanking. You'll probably even have all the feats necessary so you can switch between Kensai & SD with an enh reset: not exactly cheap and has a 3-day timer between resets IIRC, but it does give you extra options.

[Cashiry]

I wouldn't take: ITHF or GTHF, all it does is increase the damage on glancing blows... you would prob be better off take takeing a couple more toughness's or Bullheaded and Skill focus: Intim

[unbongwah]

I think the idea is ITHF & GTHF improve your hate-tanking: more dmg to mobs via glancing blows -> more hate. But I've never tried a DDO tank before, so I'm still learning how this works too.

[Trillea]

A fighter intimitank without SF:Intim?

[Failedlegend]

I think rogue 2 / ftr 18 - i.e., a dwarven version of Big Rock Candy - is still a good combo. I also think rather than Dodge / Mobility / SA, you might want to squeeze in the TWF feats (after boosting your DEX, of course). Then you can switch between TWF w/DAxes for DPS and DAxes + tower shield for tanking.

Actually the plan is to switch between DA&B and Greataxe as needed (Greataxe if I'm not fufilling a tank role so less often) if I take TWF it won't help me when I'm wearing my shield while THF will affect BOTH.

What do I get outta the second rogue lvl in heavy armor evasion doesn't work the only reason that WF works is because Mith body counts as light armor..is it just for skills? Isn't there another class that 1 lvl of would be better?


I think the idea is ITHF & GTHF improve your hate-tanking: more dmg to mobs via glancing blows -> more hate.

Yeah by Mixing Intim & Hate Tanking it makes it alot easier to keep a mobs attention...besides just becuase I'm a tank doesn't mean I can't be doing damage :) (also when for I'm using a Greataxe)


A fighter intimitank without SF:Intim?

Is it really necessary I mean it's a class skill I'd end up with 23+15 = 38 (+watever my Cha mod ends up being...so prob 40 total) isn't that good enough?....if not what should I drop....Greater weapon focus?

[ArichValtrahn]

What is the purpose of Mobility and Spring Attack on this build? If you are taking feats to create glancing blows, then you are not going to want to move around while attacking, which would make spring attack seem unimportant. Are these being taken as pre-reqs for something?

I also agree with the 11+2 int suggestion. 14 is overkill.

[unbongwah]

Actually the plan is to switch between DA&B and Greataxe as needed (Greataxe if I'm not fufilling a tank role so less often) if I take TWF it won't help me when I'm wearing my shield while THF will affect BOTH.
True, but my thinking is you have 17 feats, enough for TWF (3), THF (3), SD tanking (3 - two Shield Mast & CE), Kensai (5), plus Toughness, Imp Crit, & PA. Plus if you focus solely on DAxes, you only have to worry about one kind of weapon; whereas your build needs great DAxes and great greataxes.

What do I get outta the second rogue lvl in heavy armor evasion doesn't work the only reason that WF works is because Mith body counts as light armor..is it just for skills? Isn't there another class that 1 lvl of would be better?
My idea presumes you would eventually have high enough DEX to make light armor a reasonable option: base DEX 15 + 2 tome + 1 enh (rogue 2) + 6 item + 1 litany + 3 exceptional = 28 (+9 bonus). I don't think tower shields cancel out Evasion, but I may be wrong.

I would also go with base INT 12 and pick up a +1 INT tome for CE. Voila, 2 more pts to put into DEX. I would also dump-stat CHA for extra CON.

Again, these are just possibilities: like I said, I've never played a tank before, so I don't know what's most important. I like the extra versatility my ideas offer, but I don't know if they're practical.

[Failedlegend]

What is the purpose of Mobility and Spring Attack on this build? If you are taking feats to create glancing blows, then you are not going to want to move around while attacking, which would make spring attack seem unimportant. Are these being taken as pre-reqs for something?

Oh right I completely forgot about that change to glancing blows well I guess I'll drop Mobility and SA than....so replace one with SF:Intim and uh...I dunno...still need to figure out a good order though



I also agree with the 11+2 int suggestion. 14 is overkill.


13 Int is for CE, 14 int is for 4 Skill Points (Balance,Intim, 2 pts UMD)



Again, these are just possibilities: like I said, I've never played a tank before, so I don't know what's most important. I like the extra versatility my ideas offer, but I don't know if they're practical.

If switching between Kensai and SD were as easy as a wizard switching spells it would be awesome but that 3 day timer would make it too unreliable.

As far as needing both great D-Axes and Great Great axes (that sounds weird) I would really only need Great D-Axes as GA is only a backup so I'd prob only have one or maybe two of em (Holy and Acid maybe?) besides having access to GAs might be required until I can find some good D-axes (I'm guessing exotics are rarer than others)

[Cashiry]

Is it really necessary I mean it's a class skill I'd end up with 23+15 = 38 (+watever my Cha mod ends up being...so prob 40 total) isn't that good enough?....if not what should I drop....Greater weapon focus?

Benchmarks.....on a roll of a 1 for all classes other than halfling(add +4)
Epic DQ: 79 Intim check
Elite Hound: 80 Intim check

[Failedlegend]

Benchmarks.....on a roll of a 1 for all classes other than halfling(add +4)
Epic DQ: 79 Intim check
Elite Hound: 80 Intim check

How do you get 80...I can only get 43 even with SF:intim...which I am taking now.....thats only 63 on a 20 roll.

[Cashiry]

I just switched to THF, does not show in this build.. will make changes in a few days:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2916520&postcount=1

Intimidate

23 ranks
15 item
6 stalwart defender
4 Fighter Intim IV
2 HoGF
10 Cha Mod
6 X3 air goggles
3 Skill Focus
2 Bull Headed
________________
71 Standing w/intimi gear set

4 GH
1 Yugoloth Favor Pot
1 Cha DDO store Pot(only use in DQ Epic)
2 Bard Song
2 Monk skill buff
________________
81 Raid Buffed


Human can get higher with Sentinel dragonmarks/enhancements.....

[valorik]

Wouldn't it be better to make a Dwarven Defender with a mainly Paladin base?

As I understand it you can't take the Fighter PrC so you can't make a Stalward Defender PrC + Dwarven Defender PrC, but you can make a Defender of Siberys PrC + Dwarven Defender PrC.

I might very well be misinformed though.

Overall I believe a Paladin 18/Fighter 2 would be the best choice.

stalwart defender is the same as what dwarven defender will be released as, and you will not be able to take both.

[valorik]

ok op, to be clear I'm a big fan of tank builds but I don't think that you should roll one based on the change to epic mobs to hit or the s+b glancing blows changes, it's adding a fairly minor amount of damage and for the most part you'll want to be in dps mode (thf or twf) anyways.

The devs subtracting 1d20 in epic won't make s+b tanks viable there as
1: this brings the minimum ac for any help down to about a 60, which is still hard to sustain while doing any thing otehr than tanking on a s+b.
2: even in shield tank mode for 6 man quests you'll probably be less useful than just having another melee and letting the caster hold aggro with waves and firewall and have you melee from behind.

On to the actual build I would reccomend staying pure, you'll lose some sneak attack and umd but gain 10% double strike a feat and a small amount of hit points, it's not so hard to heal yourself with healing amp+silver flame pots.

Alternatively you could do 2 rogue, however this works poorly with a dwarf build since the best light armor you can get is not going to be helped much by dwarven armor master (someone has linked the rock-candy build and warforged is a good race for an evasion intimi-tank).