PUG quality - what's going on?

[sirgog]

What's up with the PUGs on Khyber lately?

I mean, I expect garbage, but...

Took my TR'ed Sorc (then 17) into a 14-17 Gianthold Tor Hard PUG. Three of the party had never done it before. Trounced it, took out the dragons with a single wipe on blue. Repeated on Elite, no wipes, more deaths on the sonic traps than anything else.

Then, took the same Sorc into Running with the Devils Hard then Elite (a notoriously ugly quest to PUG above Casual). 15 minutes Hard, 24 minutes Elite, few deaths, nowhere near a wipe. Again, two people hadn't done the quest before.

What's going on? Where's all the bad players now?

[Boldrin]

They are all known, and we avoid them like the plague :) At least I do, lol.

[Belowme]

Perhaps they've begun to pile up at the Eberron Recycling Center. Err.. I mean they're starting to TR :p (now that I think of it, putting that NPC near The Pit would be more appropriate...)

They're still out there... lurking in the shadows mumbling about their preciousesss. Or is that the other game...? I tend to see them more in lowbie groups though. Heck, maybe just enjoy it while it lasts. After all, school's getting out all over the place.

[TFPAQ]

Boldrin hit it on the head. My experiences with PUGs since F2P has been either "hey this guy is good" or "write this one down for never, ever, grouping with".

What I have found interesting though is that I haven't seen a substantial increase in any of the "tried but true" guild numbers based on conversations with my guildmates and many of the other guilds we typically run with.

Are the "good" players in new guilds instead of invited into the "good" guilds?

- that wasn't meant to be elitist, it was just the simpliest, most concise way of asking the question, correctness be darned ...

[MeliCat]

new good players decide DDO is too easy and move onto the next MMO?

[Eladiun]

What's going on? Where's all the bad players now?

I stand by the statement that if someone stays long enough to invest in packs they are 10 steps above anyone who full F2P with no packs. They are trying to learn and improve at the game. They actually enjoy it and don't just play cuz it's free. Roll a new toon and go back to the Harbor you'll find all the bad players they ain't hiding.

[Rubiconn]

Sorry I was busy last night..... :)

Actually all the bad pugs are right around 7-11lvl, at least they all seem to be joining my TR'd paly lately.

[ddaedelus]

What's up with the PUGs on Khyber lately?

I mean, I expect garbage, but...

Took my TR'ed Sorc (then 17) into a 14-17 Gianthold Tor Hard PUG. Three of the party had never done it before. Trounced it, took out the dragons with a single wipe on blue. Repeated on Elite, no wipes, more deaths on the sonic traps than anything else.

Then, took the same Sorc into Running with the Devils Hard then Elite (a notoriously ugly quest to PUG above Casual). 15 minutes Hard, 24 minutes Elite, few deaths, nowhere near a wipe. Again, two people hadn't done the quest before.

What's going on? Where's all the bad players now?

Update 5 drove them away? ;)

[sirdanile]

Started soloing WW on hard the other day on thelanis and put up an lfm, had 9 different people try to join, and either died in the explorer area, didn't know where water works even was, were on the wrong part of KORTHOS...etc. etc. In the end nobody managed to get any xp from me doing those quests except me. :P

Anyway point is they're all hiding on korthos, in the harbor, and possibly a few slip through the cracks and reach level 6-12, but this really is less noticeable in content you either have to purchase or earn and less prevalent amongst monks, warforged and favored souls that reach those levels.

[ddoplayer064]

Sorry I was busy last night..... :)

Actually all the bad pugs are right around 7-11lvl, at least they all seem to be joining my TR'd paly lately.

I'm sorry, I'll try to do better :(




;)

[Sir_Chonas]

I've only hit a couple of those "never again" people

One was a level 16 rogue with 125 HP that I did Acid wit with. He then attempted to join an Elite Mired in Kobolds group + dragon I joined.

Another one was after having 3x as many kills as a barbarian and ranger in Mired in Kobolds on normal and hard and holding the momma dragon's aggro on my MONK even though the barbarian was spamming intim. . . they said that it was me and a dark monk who joined for elite's fault that we failed.

They then put up another LFM saying "no monk tanks." Even though we nearly killed the big dragon on elite by ourselves after the group leader's friend started looting gold bringing her down before our healer was shrined.

The good though,
I ran last night with 3 people through GH quests on hard and elite we did Prison of Planes H+E, Crucible H, Cry for help H, Madstone Crater H in about 3 hours. . . the bulk of that time was getting to quests and filling missing spots and stuff.

So yay for Khyber Pugs returning to their former glory?

[Eladiun]

I've only hit a couple of those "never again" people

One was a level 16 rogue with 125 HP that I did Acid wit with. He then attempted to join an Elite Mired in Kobolds group + dragon I joined.

Another one was after having 3x as many kills as a barbarian and ranger in Mired in Kobolds on normal and hard and holding the momma dragon's aggro on my MONK even though the barbarian was spamming intim. . . they said that it was me and a dark monk who joined for elite's fault that we failed.

They then put up another LFM saying "no monk tanks." Even though we nearly killed the big dragon on elite by ourselves after the group leader's friend started looting gold bringing her down before our healer was shrined.

The good though,
I ran last night with 3 people through GH quests on hard and elite we did Prison of Planes H+E, Crucible H, Cry for help H, Madstone Crater H in about 3 hours. . . the bulk of that time was getting to quests and filling missing spots and stuff.

So yay for Khyber Pugs returning to their former glory?

Two of these things belong together two of these things are kind of the same...

Like I said.

Acid Wit - Free
Mired in Kobold - Free
GH - Not Free

[MalakRevan]

All I can say is sorry us F2P/Premium players let you down and we will try to keep up your expectations? Or is it that some are starting to learn how to play, what a novel concept.

A lot of the newer F2P and Premium players I have been playing with, and those that we have picked up in my guild, have really started to surprise me by their ability to learn and actually listen to those who have been playing the game for longer than they have.

[Dark_Helmet]

We drove them off Khyber and I heard they are now at home on Argo... with their kind.

[Sogrin]

We drove them off Khyber and I heard they are now at home on Argo... with their kind.

well you havent got rid of me yet, so you must be doing something wrong :P

but then i may be one of these new people mentioned that enjoy the game and actually spend money on it. And i might even be trying to learn the game (shock horror).

which reminds me, i'll need to do some research this long weekend to start figuring out what i need to farm for GS items, and figure out which slots i'm putting which stat. that and farm some more taps >.<. not having that heavy fort helm is starting to hurt

[haku-ba]

What's up with the PUGs on Khyber lately?

...

Then, took the same Sorc into Running with the Devils Hard then Elite (a notoriously ugly quest to PUG above Casual). 15 minutes Hard, 24 minutes Elite, few deaths, nowhere near a wipe. Again, two people hadn't done the quest before.

What's going on? Where's all the bad players now?

I ran with you and I was interested to see how the fights at the end would go. A few clear instructions makes life much easier :)

I have PuGged all the way from lvl 4 - 19 now, with very little solo time. As others have stated, quality at low levels and in f2p quests can be a bit iffy, but after lvl 12 or so things change quite a bit. I had very, very few incidents of stupidity in all that time, and only one or two party wipes.

If you join other people's groups expect more drama, especially if they are the kind of leader who just runs through the quest treating all as if they know it well. Assumptions and unstated expectations are what bring out the drama in my experience.

Having said all that, I do know of a couple of players running round now doing shroud runs and high level content who I will avoid running with if possible. This is where I have less time for people doing stupid stuff in groups compared to lower level content. Hopefully they will TR soon and I won't have to wait for new LFM's to be posted to run those quests to avoid them ;)

[taurean430]

My experience has been such that the f2p quests are the ones in which grouping tends to be more problematic. p2p content has far less of the much talked about dynamics. I've got 5 alts that I am still trying to level past the harbor. And it's been a pretty bizzare experience so far. On group is spot on, the next drama city... Kinda like living with a schizophrenic on a caffiene high. Moment to moment, you just don't know what to expect.

[Khellendros13]

I was fearing doing Cabal and Feast on Hard on my 13 FvS. The group ended up steamrolling both quests, and the leader Sorc didn't even have haste!

Greater Command + hold person = win!

[lord_of_rage]

Myself and a friend carried a few pugs through a speed deleras, STK elite and TR elite last night. The two that stayed through them all were suprised we were running as fast as we were last night . I was actually fun. Well more power lvling in a few hrs.

[Auran82]

The only thing I have noticed is the number of people playing Clerics and FvS as healers but just don't have, I don't know how else to word it, the urgency(?) to play a healer well?

Not sure if anyone else has noticed it, but it seems like some people are used to healing in other games where you can just chuck hots on people and almost fall asleep, or just focus on one character (the tank) and not have to worry about the rest of the group. In quests where more than one people are taking damage, some players seem to just panic and forget how to play, lol.

Just something I have noticed.

[MeliCat]

It's funny reflecting how I've got better actually reading all of this. I started in Sept 09 with the rest them all. First MMO and first game in a long time requiring some form of twitch skill. First multiplayer game too for a long time. Waiting for full parties, not knowing where anything was, not understanding so much of the game mechanics. Feeling so embarassed when I didn't understand things but didn't even know how to ask. Or didn't understand when I thought I did and getting yelled at and not really being sure why (my barb didn't do Von 6 again until epic :( )

And now soloing Korthos (only on hard mind you :) ) on my baby monk (which i still have no idea how to play). And now 3 of us dual boxing Crucible (they're dual boxing TRs and mine are new of course :) ) so that our 6 characters flag and get XP. (Still have a tendancy to play my wizzy like a bard in groups) And Aussie made the comment a couple of days ago "You used to die all the time? What happened?"

I mean, I still suck.. I acknowledge I will proabably never be a top notch player... but I have fun and I *have* got better...

I am so so grateful to those who took the time and had the patience to teach me... when my monk gets harbour-side I may give more pug leading a go. :)

But remembering back to the embarassement and difficulty of the steep learning curve - and looking at all the lfms where *much* higher than expected level characters (like 5 or 6) are still doing Korthos - I suspect Korthos is as far as a lot of people will go and they never get Sunnyside so you just never see them.

That and the scary lfms saying 'no noobs' or 'know the quest' which autoboot a typed 'share please'.

[Lorz]

What's up with the PUGs on Khyber lately?

I mean, I expect garbage, but...

Took my TR'ed Sorc (then 17) into a 14-17 Gianthold Tor Hard PUG. Three of the party had never done it before. Trounced it, took out the dragons with a single wipe on blue. Repeated on Elite, no wipes, more deaths on the sonic traps than anything else.

Then, took the same Sorc into Running with the Devils Hard then Elite (a notoriously ugly quest to PUG above Casual). 15 minutes Hard, 24 minutes Elite, few deaths, nowhere near a wipe. Again, two people hadn't done the quest before.

What's going on? Where's all the bad players now?

I guess they are getting as good as we where at lvls 14~16 back in the day :)

[sirgog]

The only thing I have noticed is the number of people playing Clerics and FvS as healers but just don't have, I don't know how else to word it, the urgency(?) to play a healer well?

Not sure if anyone else has noticed it, but it seems like some people are used to healing in other games where you can just chuck hots on people and almost fall asleep, or just focus on one character (the tank) and not have to worry about the rest of the group. In quests where more than one people are taking damage, some players seem to just panic and forget how to play, lol.

Just something I have noticed.

That was how we wiped in the Hard blue dragon - it was the FvS's first time against any of the Tor dragons.

They learned from it, and we steamrolled them all straight afterwards and then thumped Elite too.

Most new players don't learn that quickly.

[redspear]

I started Mid November, and finally decided to pay the cash to go premium somewhere around febuary. My experiance with pick up groups has changed a fair bit. When I ran my first toon, It took a lot for me to think it was a poor group. Now I have nearly finished with capping another toon, I started to notice all the flaws in various groups, and what to watch for an such.

This made me ask myself if I was simply not noticing it because, being new, I was one of them.

I have noticed that once you get out of the level 11-12ish range, suddenly groups get a lot better.

[sonanth]

The reason that some pugs have improved is simple enough , I am no longer on leave and back in iraq for another 6 mnths. Just ask slink I can make any ddo dream team cry like a fleet of sissy girls!

[Chris79]

The reason that some pugs have improved is simple enough , I am no longer on leave and back in iraq for another 6 mnths. Just ask slink I can make any ddo dream team cry like a fleet of sissy girls!

Yea, and I've moved to a new apartment and have no adsl, so in my absence a post goes up about increasing PUG quality....coincidence? I think not

Enjoy it while it lasts ppl, I will be back in 4-5 more days...muhahahahahahahaha :)

[sonanth]

are actually maybe i just like to see slink cry like a sissy girl idk. So stainer are u happy now that i am gone and you have your slinky poo all to yourself :)

[stainer]

are actually maybe i just like to see slink cry like a sissy girl idk. So stainer are u happy now that i am gone and you have your slinky poo all to yourself :)

This is why pugs improved. :p

No, I hate that you are gone Cord. Be careful and come back quick. I especially like your redundently named character, Cordtarded. Thats my favorite.

[Xeraphim]

What's up with the PUGs on Khyber lately?

I mean, I expect garbage, but...

What's going on? Where's all the bad players now?

Same thing is happening on Argonnessen - I actually hear about newbs referring to "The guide I read the other day" and "That Forum build that looked fun to try" and such instead of seeing a gimp around every other corner.

All the really bad players were known, but now the line is greying, as the really bad people aren't nearly as bad now. Even the Legendary Demii Goddess(He has different chars now) of Mabar is a better player O.o

[Folonius]

I'm relativly new to the game, having tried it when it came out, quitting after 2 weeks, and coming back 4 months ago. I've really never had any issues in my game play, but the arguments that have been popping up in PUGs is ridiculous.

I was on a Tempest Spine run last night, and there was some guy in the PUG using a voice changer that sounded like Alvin from Alvin and the Chipmunks on crack. It was really annoying, and some people in the party made him aware of it. He didn't care, he was roleplaying, and anyone who didn't roleplay DDO was an idiot. Well, I decided to throw a little troll food on the ground, and said RP is for noobs in party chat.

That started a debate about the first amendment and free speech and all that between him and another party member.. HELLO? This is a game. If you say something the dev's don't like, ZAP your account is gone. Of course, to this he said he could sue any company who did that to him, which apparently WoW did to him and he sue'd them. uh huh. At this point I just squelched him so I would only have to hear the side of the argument that made sense. The arguing went on through the entire quest, but the majority of the party squelched him.

What I found interesting was that, lets call him Alvin, waited for the guy who he was arguing with right before the fire jet traps in the area with the lava, mephits, and fire ely's, dropped a grease on the uphill slope, and dropped the guy into the lava and killed him. I told him to put in a ticket for griefing, but no idea if he did or not.

The party did manage to finish the quest, and afterwards, I was hinting at the party leader to kick Alvin from the party. Apparently they were going to run the quest again. I got kicked, and I didn't notice that the leader and alvin were in the same guild lol... So I threw up a party for Tempest Spine elite, and everyone from the previous party with the exception of Alvin, the party leader, and some other guy joined, and we blew through Tempest Spine on elite with I think one death.

That's my horrible pug story, and two more annoying characters, possibly guild, I will never have to team with again.

[stainer]

I'm relativly new to the game, having tried it when it came out, quitting after 2 weeks, and coming back 4 months ago. I've really never had any issues in my game play, but the arguments that have been popping up in PUGs is ridiculous.

I was on a Tempest Spine run last night, and there was some guy in the PUG using a voice changer that sounded like Alvin from Alvin and the Chipmunks on crack. It was really annoying, and some people in the party made him aware of it. He didn't care, he was roleplaying, and anyone who didn't roleplay DDO was an idiot. Well, I decided to throw a little troll food on the ground, and said RP is for noobs in party chat.

That started a debate about the first amendment and free speech and all that between him and another party member.. HELLO? This is a game. If you say something the dev's don't like, ZAP your account is gone. Of course, to this he said he could sue any company who did that to him, which apparently WoW did to him and he sue'd them. uh huh. At this point I just squelched him so I would only have to hear the side of the argument that made sense. The arguing went on through the entire quest, but the majority of the party squelched him.

What I found interesting was that, lets call him Alvin, waited for the guy who he was arguing with right before the fire jet traps in the area with the lava, mephits, and fire ely's, dropped a grease on the uphill slope, and dropped the guy into the lava and killed him. I told him to put in a ticket for griefing, but no idea if he did or not.

The party did manage to finish the quest, and afterwards, I was hinting at the party leader to kick Alvin from the party. Apparently they were going to run the quest again. I got kicked, and I didn't notice that the leader and alvin were in the same guild lol... So I threw up a party for Tempest Spine elite, and everyone from the previous party with the exception of Alvin, the party leader, and some other guy joined, and we blew through Tempest Spine on elite with I think one death.

That's my horrible pug story, and two more annoying characters, possibly guild, I will never have to team with again.

I would have ended the day with all of you squelched.

[Gornn]

I would have ended the day with all of you squelched.

You like monks though. So. There. hehe

[Schmoe]

I would have ended the day with all of you squelched.

Don't you get lonely?

[stainer]

Don't you get lonely?

The voices help me, and there is a place I found in Strakeln's sig that is pretty awesome. The heavy drinking and doughnut eating take some sting out. So, no, not real lonely.

[Folonius]

I would have ended the day with all of you squelched.

If there wasn't one of my guildies in the group, I would have recalled and dropped the party myself.

[Schmoe]

The voices help me, and there is a place I found in Strakeln's sig that is pretty awesome. The heavy drinking and doughnut eating take some sting out. So, no, not real lonely.

You mean that "special place?" The one that you can't tell anyone about? The one where he likes to take you to show you his special things? Well, I guess if you're into that kind of thing... ;)

[Merrelll]

Seems to me that my "Friends list" with comments are way behind me in levels. Now granted that could mean at least 3 things. Either I don't have a real life(Some guildies would agree here). 2) Said special group are on others special catagory of "Friends List"; and sucks so bad that no-one wants them in their group. 3) They just don't play much; (Because they suck)! :)

[MeliCat]

Seems to me that my "Friends list" with comments are way behind me in levels. Now granted that could mean at least 3 things. Either I don't have a real life(Some guildies would agree here). 2) Said special group are on others special catagory of "Friends List"; and sucks so bad that no-one wants them in their group. 3) They just don't play much; (Because they suck)! :)


hehehe... i should check mine.

although i did find myself grouping with someone that i had commented "sexist be prepared". turns out he's on his like 3rd TR and is the leader of a guild which is big enough that i've seen it around a bit although i think i only ever group with them in pugged raids.

he called me "sweety". :|

the comment remains unchanged.

[Folonius]

hehehe... i should check mine.

although i did find myself grouping with someone that i had commented "sexist be prepared". turns out he's on his like 3rd TR and is the leader of a guild which is big enough that i've seen it around a bit although i think i only ever group with them in pugged raids.

he called me "sweety". :|

the comment remains unchanged.

:-O

There's someone in my guild I call sweety, and they don't mind at all :)

[mimmu3]

As someone who is insanely slow at leveling (just got my F2P launch cleric to lvl 4) I've found a general improvement in PUGs since the first few weeks. Sometimes the players aren't the best socially, but gameplay wise I've had little to no issue (except the Warforge Barb. who tried to speed run through MP elite today and left the 1 level lower fighter to defend a squishy wizard and rogue ... you know who you are). Generally I've been tempted more than once to try to start a guild or something with some of these people just so I can play more with them.

In other words: Good PUGs breaking up makes me sad.

[sonanth]

This is why pugs improved. :p

No, I hate that you are gone Cord. Be careful and come back quick. I especially like your redundently named character, Cordtarded. Thats my favorite.

haha i figurd u would agree with me on the pug thing:). Yea bro cant wait to get back home as well, as for as my ratarded mnk well what can i say i have always wanted a cha based wf mnk with a starting con of 10. I figure by the time he is capped he should be out dpsing your mnk .

[Otherworld]

Sorry, my fault. I told all my friends to start playing DDO. (jk)

But, yeah, I have noticed people getting smarter compared to last month.

Maybe they're on vacation, maybe they had bad marks and aren't allowed to play,maybe they got sick of sucking and went to play another game,...

Or maybe there's still hope for the human race and the average intelligence is actually going up instead of going down. (Wouldn't count on that)

Kudos to all the smart newbs.

[redspear]

Not to derail the thread, but something I have noticed lately is that the random guild invites have increased. I use to only get them from low levels in the harbour, and sometimes the market. But now it seems there happening everywhere by all levels. This is on my current main who is 18 at the moment.

[basketaske]

Blind guld invites was bound to happen with the guild stuff in update 5. The guild I'm in, has increased lately as well, but this time, it's not just random muppets that want a guild because it's 1337 to be in a guild. It's actual people, that can think and aren't 6 years old or on their first toon out of Korthos. They are a nice addition to the guild, someone I wouldn't be embarrased about sharing guild name with.

In short, quality is up, friends list with comments, is less populated.

[Schmoe]

In all honesty, I'm not seeing it. I've always had pretty good PUG experiences on this server, and nothing much has changed. Actually, one of the biggest attractions of the game for me is that the players are generally friendly and competent (definitely more so than me :P). I really haven't noticed any difference over the last 6+ months.

[rezerector]

new good players decide DDO is too easy and move onto the next MMO?

very true

[Boldrin]

very true

It only became easy recently... I blame the new people!!!