Need help for LFM

[MrWizard]

Reposting for clarity.


I run Sins of Attrition a lot on my AC tank. It is fun and I like getting all the shroud ingredients and sometimes a boot ingredient.


It should be much quicker with a full party of looters (and more fun) than solo play. Higher difficulties are easier with more people (like hard and elite).


However, when I put up the LFM I seem to be sending the wrong message. This is not about being uber, but trying to impart the correct party needs.


I put in 'loot run', 'bring your best', 'don't die', not for xp, fast, etc etc etc.


And I usually get first timers who cannot find dungeon, people who bring a toon not capable of a fast loot run in that particular dungeon, and sometimes worse.

Not expecting an epic geared crazy FvS, but am expecting some experienced people for a faster loot run, not a slower one.





I know some who may be reading this are put off by the post, or by my play in there, but it is a loot run. Oft times I do just put up a lazy LFM and help people flag and stuff, but most of the times I want those 5 chests fairly quick and do not mind sharing the run.




What is the terminology to get

1) experienced players who know the dungeon well
2) people to bring their best loot toon for that dungeon
3) people who want the 5 chests and can make the run quicker?
4) *wish* people to bring toons that can handle elite runs for loot in there?



All attempts have failed...at least 50% are people who are completely new to the quest or cannot survive in there at all. It is not fun and I feel bad for them.

Now, if you are an experienced player and bring in a gimp, that can be fun. And we have a good time.

I do not want to ruin a new player's experience in there, but oft times even after talking to them as soon as they join I only find out later on they are not prepared or know the quest at all. It is a drag to ruin someone's play experience.


I just want quicker loot runs for all 5 chests at higher difficulty levels. Elite in there takes forever to solo and it would be nice to bang out a fast elite loot run!!!

small, medium, and large ingredients drop there all the time, as well as boots....I want more loot...



edit: for those ragging on me for being in there all the time, once you sack the 3 chests, you can make the end chest runs in about 10 minutes. I feel it is much funner than those 400 runs in weapons shipment you all do...lol and faster too.

[Phidius]

"Fast Sins for loot - not waiting for you"

You're not on Sarlona or Cannith, are you?

[Cack]

Fast Sins, die, suck or slow me down and have a sac dragged across your face.

[MrWizard]

Fast Sins, die, suck or slow me down and have a sac dragged across your face.

lol

[synkos]

Every time I see one of your LFMs they make me feel like I'm not good enough to join them.

I would say you're doing it right ;)

[Tapsimanxer]

place "sins on elite" in the lfm. that would scare me away.

off topic: there are 5 chests? wiki only shows the 2 end chests.

[DoctorWhofan]

Hey, i haven't ever done it, and he knows me! You could in detail what you want, and people will still never read. I see that happen with my LFMs all the time. Wrong levels, wrong classes, and the classes are pictorial!

All I can say, and it isn't much, is good luck!

[Nouda_EU]

I find a subtle ip or (Started) should be added to most lfm.

Being able to navigate anywhere from desert to amrath iplies that you have run the quest a few times... it also suggests that if some joins and says where is the quest you can instantly kick them with out to much of a guilty concions (I usually have a little rant first)

This is amongst my pet hate of people joining and asking what quest?... I mean you hit the lfm how can you not know?!

my lfms usually say what im going

mon runs - normal (started)
GH Quests - n/h/e (started) (specific quest selected in lfm)
I don't tend to put up lfm for amarth because I don't feel confident enough to lead properly, the same for dreaming dark.

argh also this is another pet hate

I put gh quests - Normal (start) and people join and say can we do hard?!

Im doing normal because gh quest give out silly xp and therefor should be run normal/hard/elite just once for xp and relics having done this your ocme out 2 levels higher than when you entered and wil almost enought relics to flag add in and explorere area and your sorted.

[Srozbun]

Maybe: "If you can't solo this quest don't click?" Sounds a bit pretentious though and I don't think that's your intent.

I see your loot run LFMs up all the time and I never click on them as I doubt I'd survive. Your message isn't lost on everyone :P

IMO, just plain "Loot run" sounds like "run in and pick up loot as I've already soloed the dungeon." Maybe other people think this as well and that's why they click on your LFMs.

[Swedishchef]

People don´t read lfms.
That said some people think it´s ok to join up GH runs with no fort, no falslie and starter gear wich imho is like (or worse then) joining said loot run with out knowing where the quest is located.

P.S I like rants like theese, they make sense D.S

[Micron]

I joined one of your LFMs the other day on Reckluse. I got in the quest when you were past the first boss so I had to get through the first few bunches of devils. I ran through a few, eventually stopping to fight when DA started to build up. My mic wasn't on and I was too busy fighting to type so I couldn't answer your questions straight away, which led you to the conclusion I was "not communicative". Then I got stuck on a chair in the boss room for a bit until you reminded me of the /stuck command - thanks! Eventually I caught up with you along with the bard that joined after me, but I got disconnected and found myself booted from the group when I came back about 4 minutes later.

Admittedly a series of unfortunate events that didn't make me look like the überest player in the universe, still not a good enough reason in my book to boot somebody while they're DCd and ignore them when they send you a Tell afterwards. I wasn't there to leech, the last time I leeched was in a 2007 Reaver when I couldn't for the life of me figure out what do on a rogue in there. I wasn't even interested in the crappy chests in Sins, I just wanted to run the quest because I like it.

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, you did put the message across - you needn't worry that I'll apply to an LFM of yours again. I've run Sins plenty times, I know my way around but I'll know better next time and run it with guildies or other people that aren't grumpy knobs.

[Miahoo]

dont blame him. i'm sure u would think the same on an opposite situation.

i never join fast\smooth quests (maybe because i'm too low/new/noob). i alwase about to help others to learn and do the quest.
what i like with this game is to meet new ppls and friends everyday.
if u want a fast smooth quest with no newguys, get yourself a static group or something.

thats my opinion anyway.

[Kaldaka]

Try this:


ZERG BYOH on Elite ... fast loot KEEP UP!


The all caps ZERG as the first word in the lfm should keep most of the flower sniffers away and BYOH should keep out the rest :D

[Clay]

I joined one of your LFMs the other day on Reckluse. I got in the quest when you were past the first boss so I had to get through the first few bunches of devils. I ran through a few, eventually stopping to fight when DA started to build up. My mic wasn't on and I was too busy fighting to type so I couldn't answer your questions straight away, which led you to the conclusion I was "not communicative". Then I got stuck on a chair in the boss room for a bit until you reminded me of the /stuck command - thanks! Eventually I caught up with you along with the bard that joined after me, but I got disconnected and found myself booted from the group when I came back about 4 minutes later.

Admittedly a series of unfortunate events that didn't make me look like the überest player in the universe, still not a good enough reason in my book to boot somebody while they're DCd and ignore them when they send you a Tell afterwards. I wasn't there to leech, the last time I leeched was in a 2007 Reaver when I couldn't for the life of me figure out what do on a rogue in there. I wasn't even interested in the crappy chests in Sins, I just wanted to run the quest because I like it.

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, you did put the message across - you needn't worry that I'll apply to an LFM of yours again. I've run Sins plenty times, I know my way around but I'll know better next time and run it with guildies or other people that aren't grumpy knobs.

Grumpy knob eh?

Let's see you put up your lfms and have to deal with the great variety of annoyances that crop up.

How about this scenario: you have 25 min to get a Sins elite done before the worlds come down. You know you can do it, you have done it before. But you put up an LFM looking for a little help to make it go faster. You put a specific LFM up stating what you are looking for... and you get a guy that joins that can't even navigate past a chair... A CHAIR!

So you feel a little frustrated as you are fighting the boss... he is at 20% and you get the world message: The World is coming down now. LOG OF NOW!!

I'd be a grumpy gnob too.

But, since I didn't put up an LFM I actually DID complete in 20 minutes... with minutes to spare to get my end reward and make it to the tavern to repair before the world came down. Now, if I had put up an LFM, I doubt I would have succeeded in my elite speed run before the world came down.

[Lorz]

I joined one of your LFMs the other day on Reckluse. I got in the quest when you were past the first boss so I had to get through the first few bunches of devils. I ran through a few, eventually stopping to fight when DA started to build up. My mic wasn't on and I was too busy fighting to type so I couldn't answer your questions straight away, which led you to the conclusion I was "not communicative". Then I got stuck on a chair in the boss room for a bit until you reminded me of the /stuck command - thanks! Eventually I caught up with you along with the bard that joined after me, but I got disconnected and found myself booted from the group when I came back about 4 minutes later.

Admittedly a series of unfortunate events that didn't make me look like the überest player in the universe, still not a good enough reason in my book to boot somebody while they're DCd and ignore them when they send you a Tell afterwards. I wasn't there to leech, the last time I leeched was in a 2007 Reaver when I couldn't for the life of me figure out what do on a rogue in there. I wasn't even interested in the crappy chests in Sins, I just wanted to run the quest because I like it.

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, you did put the message across - you needn't worry that I'll apply to an LFM of yours again. I've run Sins plenty times, I know my way around but I'll know better next time and run it with guildies or other people that aren't grumpy knobs.

I'm sure he will miss your uberness.

So your mad because you come in, add nothing to the lot run, and only delay. Hmmmm.....yeah do that with your guildys.

[Clay]

Cannon:

You just need to treat the people that fail to live up to the expectations of the lfm as if they are not in your party (anymore). If they die, leave them... if they release, boot them. They will not click on the next lfm you put up.

I like mentoring, really I do. But I also like zerging and speed running, and challenging myself with short man situations. If I am doing the 2nd and I always expressly indicate in my LFM and a person joins who can't catch up or get into the quest I say this:
I am really sorry X. I cannot go back and get your stone/recall out and show you the way/hold your hand as I have a specific agenda I am trying to reach. I put up a specific LFM stating this. You can look for me at a different time and I will help you then.

[sirdanile]

Cannon:

You just need to treat the people that fail to live up to the expectations of the lfm as if they are not in your party (anymore). If they die, leave them... if they release, boot them. They will not click on the next lfm you put up.

I like mentoring, really I do. But I also like zerging and speed running, and challenging myself with short man situations. If I am doing the 2nd and I always expressly indicate in my LFM and a person joins who can't catch up or get into the quest I say this:
I am really sorry X. I cannot go back and get your stone/recall out and show you the way/hold your hand as I have a specific agenda I am trying to reach. I put up a specific LFM stating this. You can look for me at a different time and I will help you then.

This.

I joined once a long time ago on my squishy caster and died several times...on casual...*facepalm*
You were cool with it at the time...even resed me! After that run I decided to go and Greater reincarnate her into a 32 point with more than 10 base con. :D

So yeah next time I hit your lfm itll be with one of my characters who can take more than 2 hits.

[puddles6]

maybe just don't bother lfming?

if all you are wanting is the loot then it's prolly easier and quicker just to solo it with dungeon scaling. I think that's what most of the rest of us do when we want quick loot from sins, well that's what i do anyway.

I don't think i'd ever consider lfming that quest, occasionally i say to guildie 'at the end of sins if anyone needs'

Anyway i'm not a big pug fan, so maybe it's just me being antisocial or something :P

*hugs* Carrie

[Micron]

How about this scenario: you have 25 min to get a Sins elite done before the worlds come down. You know you can do it, you have done it before. But you put up an LFM looking for a little help to make it go faster. You put a specific LFM up stating what you are looking for... and you get a guy that joins that can't even navigate past a chair... A CHAIR!
This was a special Turbine chair that glues you to itself and doesn't let go of you unless you use a command that I didn't think of at once because I'd never had to use it before.

The LFM said "loot run, come loot not die" or something along those lines. I came, I didn't die and after a while I caught up with the group leader when he was roughly halfway through the quest before I DCd so there was still plenty time for me to reconnect (there were 3 or 4 people in the group then so I wasn't blocking anybody's spot) and help him kill the boss before the world comes down. I don't think I caused any delays except maybe tier II or III dungeon alert as I was trying to catch up - I stopped then and killed some mobs to clear it. I could have gone back and try to clear all the mobs between the entrance and the first boss room but as the leader didn't do it himself, I didn't feel like it was expected of me.

I'm not frustrated about it, I'm sure Cannonfodder is perfectly happy without me in his groups and I'm happy not grouping with him. I too like mentoring as well as zerging and speed runs, I solo Sins, Invasion and other quests and invite people to come and loot the chests. What I don't do is booting people from my group when they're having connection issues without letting them know what my problem is with them.

[Krag]

Best thing is when you pu up an LFM looking for some decent players and the pugger won't be able to get to the quest without dieing.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

"In progress, know your way here" (even if you aren't in progress yet) scares away most people without a clue.

[MrWizard]

I usually always add 'UNDERWAY' so people know.

I say 'don't die' or 'bring toon that can handle it'

etc etc

I usually run norm or casual since hard is quite difficult for a lot of pugs.

I do not like running it alone and there are times I will not care who joins and take it slow.

But when I say 'loot run' that means, I thought, high level toons that can blast through it for the loot..quick and easy.

It is more fun to do the dungeon with people than solo.


We all die, we all mess up, its all fun. But if you never did it before or bring in a toon that you know will die every 3 seconds in a loot run, who are you helping?


If I am doing it for pleasure and willing to help others, I will make a less dramatic LFM. But realisitically, if I put up an LFM for 'TEmpest SPine, loot run, experienced only' would that mean I want all first timers, people who want it for xp, or people who cannot kill anything in there?

No. You would expect some serious looters ready to rock the dungeon, get some loot, and have fun. Not sit in the lava by the door saying 'I'm lost, come get me'....


LOL.



I usually hope some crazy FvS will come in and blow past me, or a MrCow caster will come in and while my slow butt is still running down a corridor, the end boss dies....


5 chests is awesome. I get most of my large ingredients in there. It just takes a while to kill it all to get to the chests.

[MrWizard]

For anyone getting upset...I tell them in group

"my other toons would die in here just as quick, that is why I brought 'this toon' so I could do a survivable loot run with him'

"no worries, just log onto your fvs, caster, tank, and lets loot"



it is frustrating when the party dies a lot. I feel bad, use resources, etc.


I feel bad and tell the newer players "look, this is a loot run. You have never done this before. I highly suggest you join a group doing this on a normal run to enjoy it"

I zerg, therefore I am, in a loot run. Who would not?

Dang it!!!!

[MrWizard]

Hey, i haven't ever done it, and he knows me! You could in detail what you want, and people will still never read. I see that happen with my LFMs all the time. Wrong levels, wrong classes, and the classes are pictorial!

All I can say, and it isn't much, is good luck!

+1


actually, it kinda reminds me of the old days when the servers were busy back on xoriat.


In one way it is frustrating, but in another it is great to have to deal with it, it means we are busy again.


I gave up elite loot runs in there...norm and casual are hard enough. Now and then I find a group that can handle elite, better loot.

[Michaelaz2]

"Fast Sins - Know the way or die trying"

[MrWizard]

place "sins on elite" in the lfm. that would scare me away.

off topic: there are 5 chests? wiki only shows the 2 end chests.

3 side chests that drop shroud ingredients.
2 end chests, one drops boot ingredients (not sure what ingredients, if any, the other chest drops, never paid attention to that)


the 3 chests are what make it more time consuming, 3 to 6 hallways and rooms have to be cleared/fought to get them. Can mean 220+ mobs to kill/fight through.

[AkromaAoW]

I run this quest on normal and hard a lot by myself. It takes me about 30-40 minutes on normal to solo if I have to clear the dungeon to find all 5 chests. I dont run past anything.

I have seen your posts, and I have been tempted to join, but I've been avoiding pugs for a while, and I thought from the wording that my disposition might clash with yours. However, I like what your OP states, especially the part about feeling bad for the folks that can't cut it. That seems to indicate that your heart is in the right place, not that you are trying to be an arse, but that you have a goal, and these type of people just can't help you reach it. I get that.

I should be on more often in the upcoming days of summer, and I'll hit one of your Sins lfms to see how we click. Until then, best of luck.

E.

[MrWizard]

I run this quest on normal and hard a lot by myself. It takes me about 30-40 minutes on normal to solo if I have to clear the dungeon to find all 5 chests. I dont run past anything.

I have seen your posts, and I have been tempted to join, but I've been avoiding pugs for a while, and I thought from the wording that my disposition might clash with yours. However, I like what your OP states, especially the part about feeling bad for the folks that can't cut it. That seems to indicate that your heart is in the right place, not that you are trying to be an arse, but that you have a goal, and these type of people just can't help you reach it. I get that.

I should be on more often in the upcoming days of summer, and I'll hit one of your Sins lfms to see how we click. Until then, best of luck.

E.

yea, if you can solo it, come on in.
That is the issue with the LFM..if you say all 'zerg. no noobs. etc' then you come off all , well, rude.
I try to make them a bit funny and clear about looting.
Sometimes I just do it for fun and bring people through.

I even call back out and clear the front to make it easier on those runs...

fyi - just got another keepsake..whoo hoo, and two larges last run. Best loot run for me in the game outside of epic.

[Uskathoth]

Maybe try "If you cannot solo this quest then please do not join this group. All team members must know the quest inside and out or they will probably get left in the dust."

As a relatively new player, that gives me a better idea than "loot run". I assumed "loot run" meant that you were focusing on certain loot but I wouldn't necessarily pick up on the idea that the run is very fast and w/o any hand-holding for first timers. Spelling it out might help (of course, DWF is right that a lot of people just don't read the LFM text).

[MrWizard]

Maybe try "If you cannot solo this quest then please do not join this group. All team members must know the quest inside and out or they will probably get left in the dust."

As a relatively new player, that gives me a better idea than "loot run". I assumed "loot run" meant that you were focusing on certain loot but I wouldn't necessarily pick up on the idea that the run is very fast and w/o any hand-holding for first timers. Spelling it out might help (of course, DWF is right that a lot of people just don't read the LFM text).

the problem is, there is not much room in the LFM...and a lot of it will be cut off.

I am understanding that 'loot run' has now changed meaning recently. I just don't like to say 'zerg' because I still enjoy it and try not to uber speed through it..but that is okay too.

Usually a quest has some form of loot, in this case ingredients, that players want. Looting is a bit about spending as little resources as possible with the least amount of trouble/time spent getting it.
When doing a 'loot run' one should bring the best available you got to bang it out.

Now, in the case of bound items, that is a different arena for sure.

[gwlech]

Unless I am running it elite, more people just slow me down in sins. I decided I wanted to have company the other day so I posted something along the lines of "Sins Hard, Be Able to Solo". Then some 150 hp drow sorc joins and dies 3 times within a couple of minutes, not even with a DA, then recalls out and drops group....We waited for him for 5 mins to get there too. :/

And when I do post things like "Be able to solo" I get smarta$s tells like "If you can solo it then why do you need a group huh????". Yeah and asking me a question with multiple question marks irritates me, possibly more than the actual question in most cases, but I get it alot, so I just give up.

[Ministry]

Try this:


ZERG BYOH on Elite ... fast loot KEEP UP!



Or a variation...

"ZERG BYOH - Fast Loot Run - Join ONLY if you can solo and want loot faster - :) "

Don't forget the smiley face.

I find if you put anything along those lines and add a smiley face, it takes the edge off.

If it was posted like that... I think many more would join and less would misunderstand or get upset.

Since I still can't solo waterworks, I would pass, but I think that post might work.

[MrWizard]

Or a variation...

"ZERG BYOH - Fast Loot Run - Join ONLY if you can solo and want loot faster - :) "

Don't forget the smiley face.

I find if you put anything along those lines and add a smiley face, it takes the edge off.

If it was posted like that... I think many more would join and less would misunderstand or get upset.

Since I still can't solo waterworks, I would pass, but I think that post might work.

ill try that out and see...

[Cack]

Fast Sins, die, suck or slow me down and have a sac dragged across your face.

Pretty sure I summed this up already. When some one does join make sure you tell them about yours crabs eating the herps so the sac drag won't be as bad today...or something along those lines.

But really, the best way to get them to stay away after dying, sucking or slowing you down is being a **** about it, tell them they f'd up and not to join your lfm's anymore, make a nice little list of the f'ers that did and perhaps they will stay away from either you remembering them (list) or them remembering you (****).

[Vint]

Pretty sure I summed this up already. When some one does join make sure you tell them about yours crabs eating the herps so the sac drag won't be as bad today...or something along those lines.

But really, the best way to get them to stay away after dying, sucking or slowing you down is being a **** about it, tell them they f'd up and not to join your lfm's anymore, make a nice little list of the f'ers that did and perhaps they will stay away from either you remembering them (list) or them remembering you (****).

+1 Nicely said. People should know by now, if you join these LFM's and F'up, what do you expect to happen? I know the bleeding hearts are out for all the slow, but hells bells dont ruin my fun zerj.

[Adalita]

The formal psychological term for what you are experiencing is called The Dunning-Kruger Effect. Basically this says that the more ignorant you are of a subject the higher you will rate your own ability in that subject.

When you put up an LFM with the qualification "experienced players only" (or whatever) you are relying on those viewing said LFM to accurately evaluate their own build, experience, equipment, etc to reach a decision about whether they meet the qualification. And the more ignorant that person is of the game, the more likely they are to decide "hell yeah, I AM TEH UBERZ!". And thus the sadness ensues...

Basically you're trying to swim against the tide of human nature. While I salute your motivations, I fear that they are impossibly self-defeating in practice.