Melee Bard (brd18/ftr2)

[BorisIgorXVI]

Hi,


I wanted to make a new melee character as soon as i get my premium status. I love to be in a party with a bard, and ive seen them melee pretty good, so i figured that's the way to go for me.

I can get the love myself by buffing the hell out of my part, i can hack&slash in most quests, and i don't drop dead on every touch.
I chose for THF over TWF since i already have a TWF fighter, and i dont own 32pt build yet, wich makes it hard to make a strong TWF.

Here's the build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Bookx Songbeard
Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(4 Fighter \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 278
Spell Points: 640
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 10
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 18 23 24
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 16 16 18
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 12 12 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 3 20 24
Bluff 1 2 2
Concentration 7 25 25
Diplomacy 1 2 2
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 1 2 2
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide -1 -1 -1
Intimidate 1 2 2
Jump 8 19 19
Listen -1 -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 5 23 23
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 1
Spot -1 -1 -1
Swim 4 7 7
Tumble n/a 0 0
Use Magic Device 5 24 24

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Charm Person


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (2): Heroism


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (3): Haste


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Greater Heroism


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Summon Monster V


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (0): Invisibility
Spell (0): Mass Charm Monster


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Spell (0): Displacement
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I




Any advice guys? different feats/spells/enhancements. different order, you name it. tell me plz!

[Krag]

Any advice guys? different feats/spells/enhancements. different order, you name it. tell me plz!

Take 2-3 rogue levels. Even a decently equipped bard (+2tome, litany, +6con, gfl, shroud hp, +3 exceptional con) is very squishy. Evasion helps to avoid lots of damage and consequently die much less. Extra to-hit from sneak attack is not to sneeze at either.

A solid gain for a price of few sp and a few seconds of your haste spell.

[Irinis]

Level 1 as bard would get you more skillpoints on the first level, so swap that first fighter level to lvl2 at the earliest. Level 1 you'll be in Korthos anyway and the ember mace is fine against those enemies.

I haven't taken a deep look at the build, will probably have more comments later unless the other builders here beat me to it.

[tihocan]

Looks mostly good, make sure you max UMD though. You could probably drop Int to 8 to get Con to 16, forgetting about Diplo / Haggle.

[Dendrix]

Skills
Your 1st level should be Bard not fighter, you get a LOT more skill points that way, this is really important for perform. Don't take perform when you level up as a fighter, but max it out on your bard levels.

Use Magic Device. Bards are one of two classes that get this as a class skill. As squishy as they are, they really massivly from being able to use out of class wands and scrolls.

You can also go True Neutral and benefit from Stability, and will be able to use all the alignment related items once your UMD hits 20.

Wands of : Stoneskin, Prot Evil, Shield, Resist Energy are massivly useful.
Scrolls of Heal, Restoration, Greater Restoration, Raise Dead - these add to your party utility.

Spells:
Summons are useless as a bard, dump them, the monster is too low level by the time you get it.
Tou don't need a cure at every level, 1-2 single target cures and 1-2 mass cures are all you need. Swap them as you level up.
Heroism, Greater Heroism & Good Hope you only need 1 of these. Change the spells as you level up to only keep 1 available.
Invisibility is a brilliant spell, most monsters don't see invisibility, you can sneak past vast numbers of them take it much earlier than 20th for when you solo. example, nothing in the desert sees invis except elememtals, you can just run to named and kill them there for farming firestorm greaves, ring of spell storing etc.
I didn't see the Disco Ball (Otto's sphere of dancing) very useful spell, precast and pull mobs into it.
Charms & Mezzes Drop the charm spells you have, with Cha12 your Crowd Control will come from songs where the DC comes from your effective perform skill.

Stats & Enhancements: Really really consider a +2 to everything tome at 7th, helps immensly.
With no enhancements going into Cha you will need a Cha item to cast your spells above 2nd level. A +2 tome means you cast 4th level always and only need +2 from an item or enhancements to cast your 6th level spells. Dropping Energy of Music4 and getting +2Cha would be better then you wouldn't need a cha item at all, which frees up an item slot

[Hjarki]

1. Take an additional 2 levels in Fighter, Ranger or Barbarian. You'll still have 6th level spells and all the Bard songs except Mass Suggestion (which is rarely ever used anyway). But you'll get to +16 BAB for maximum glancing blows.

2. Unless you have a very good reason, your first level taken should always be the class that gives you the most skill points. By taking Fighter first, you're unnecessarily throwing away 12 skill points for no gain.

3. Move 2 points from Intelligence to Constitution. You don't need the skill points and you might as well get the additional hit points/fort save.

4. Take Use Magic Device. There's no reason for a Bard not to have this skill at max. To get the skill points, you can skip Diplomacy and Haggle, and reduce your Balance somewhat (you don't actually need a maximum Balance skill since enemy DCs for Trip checks tend to top out in the early teens). Diplomacy is rarely useful for characters without Sneak Attack, and Haggle just reduces merchant costs. While the latter may seem useful, eventually you'll be so flooded with money you just don't care. Swim is also an unnecessary skill.

5. Spells. While levelling, you take each Cure spells as you receive it. However, you normally unlearn them later on. A good rule of thumb is that you should have MCMW (if available) + your next two best healing spells. So at maximum level, you'd have CCW, MCLW, MCMW.

Also, the following spells - Charm Person, Heroism, Break Enchantment, Remove Fear - will all become obsolete after a certain point. On the other hand, the spells Grease and Glitterdust do not become obsolete (although their save DCs are fairly weak for you). If the Grease change in U5 goes through, Grease will be a 'must have' for all Bards.

Heroes' Feast is a weak spell for a Bard since the only part that stacks with your buffs is a small number of temporary hit points (and the curative portion that probably doesn't stack with the shrine you need to visit to activate the spell).

[BorisIgorXVI]

thx for the great advice guys!
i edited my first post with a new build.

here's my changes:

1. i forgot about taking bard first, wich is an obvious choice.

2. 2 extra levels for another class does makes sense. i went for fighter in this case for max. BAB. im not sure yet if i want 2 rogue or 2bard instead.

3. i switched some skills, and added UMD. wasn't planning on getting it, but its a waste if i dont. dropped diplo and haggle.

4. i switched some spells around. lvl19/20 fighter still show the spells i would take if bard levels. i should be changing spells as i level up indeed.

5. I dropped the 2 int for 2 con. dont need the skills when i take bard lvl1, and i do need the HP.

6. Switched some enhancements around also, mainly for the +2 cha. seriously considering a +2cha tome to open up an item spot.


to me this build looks very solid atm. last 2 levels are still in question for me, but i can think about that while playing.
Anything else i forgot or need to change?


thx so far, maybe more:)

[Hjarki]

Summons are useless as a bard, dump them, the monster is too low level by the time you get it.

Summon Monster V tends to be an exception since you cast it for the chain-Earthgrabs more than anything else.

[Rav'n]

Herosim, Good Hope, Greater Heroism.... you need TWO of these...! Heroism comes in a pot, so early levels don't take the spell.

Good Hope is a MASS Version of Heroism... but also removes/prevents Despair.

Greater Herosim, while GH Trumps Good Hope on Skill bonus/Saves... it doesn't remove/prevent Despair. Take Good Hope (level 3 Spell) and keep it even after you have Greater Heroism.

Another side bonus of Good Hope... While it doesn't stack with Bard Song IC, it does lay dormant. If you're caught up in battle and you IC songs times out... Good Hope will flash across your Character's head.... It now becomes active for attack rolls. Yes I know.... keep a watch on the bard song and don't let it expire. Sometimes you don't see it.. especially if you're a Melee Bard. And besides, if the SOng goes out when you're toe to toe with a name... do you really want to stop fighting to play a fresh song?

[tihocan]

Note that although it currently makes lots of sense to take up to 5 levels in other classes, keep in mind that taking more than 2 will lock you out of Warchanter III. Of course currently we have no idea what Warchanter III will give and when it is going to be released, but if it turns out to be very good, a lot of Warchanter bards are going to go through some heavy respec ;)

[BorisIgorXVI]

ill skip heroism and take rage+another spell. not to much reason to have it.
summon monster V is definatly staying on my list, i like it.
my guess is by the time i reach lvl18, and i need to know whether i take bard or other levels, we have warchanter III :P

thx guys, he has been rolled!

[karl_k0ch]

Warchanter I is avaliable for level 6 bards and has Power Attack and a Weapon Focus as prereq. Your current build obtains PA at Level 6 (where you have 5 bard levels so far) and WF at level 9 (where you have 7 bard levels), thus unlocking Warchanter at Level 9, which is quite late.

Rearranging your feats could grant you an ealier PrE: Taking the WF instead of ITHF at level 8 would allow Warchanter at 8, switching Extend and the Weapon Focus would even allow Warchanter at 7 (which is the earliest with your current class progression).

Regarding the different buffs a Bard grants, I found this threat a very helpful one: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=137171

[tihocan]

summon monster V is definatly staying on my list, i like it.
You'll most likely get rid of it pretty fast. At L16 this summon is worthless in terms of help fighting stuff.

[sly_1]

...
1. i forgot about taking bard first, wich is an obvious choice.

2. 2 extra levels for another class does makes sense. i went for fighter in this case for max. BAB. im not sure yet if i want 2 rogue or 2bard instead.

3. i switched some skills, and added UMD. wasn't planning on getting it, but its a waste if i dont. dropped diplo and haggle.
...

My take:

- your stats are a lil wonky. I really don't think you need 18 str and 16 con. 16 str and 14 con is still perfectly viable and that is a 8 points worth of point buy you can then allocate to your other stats. -1 ab and dmg from 16 str and -20 hp at lvl 20 isn't going to gimp you. I'd add about 4 to int and 4 to dex so int 12, dex 12. Int for skill points, dex for ac at low lvl and reflex saves throughout.

My bard has 12 base con and can hit 580 hp double madstoned or just over 500 without madstone, way more than a bard (who is never expected to tank anything, ever) will need.

- 2 lvls of rogue > 2 lvls of fighter imo. evasion will spare you from thousands of hp worth of dmg over the life of your toon, especially if you take my advise above and throw a few points into dex. The added int allows you to max out: haggle, umd, concentrate, and perform and still have points leftover for respectable lvls of jump, disable device, search, locks, and balance. If adding rogue it's best to take rogue at lvl 1 but if not don't lose sleep over it, only a slight difference skill point wise between rogue and bard.

As far as 16 bard vs 18 bard, you can find posts going back 2+ yrs advising to take 18 bard for the potential of warchanter III. So yeah, maybe next patch they come out with something awesome, or maybe another 2+ yrs goes by and warchater I is all there is. Nothing stopping true res or +2 lesser reincarnation if chanter III is awesome, though.

[Dcloak]

I love my 18 Bard/2 Fighter. Great dps. Fascinate works wonderfully on epic. 420 hp's. Not squishy at all.

Its based upon the old Taalisyn build: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116193

Having evasion isn't necessary at all. You just have to be smart and not get yourself into bad situations like jumping into traps.

You can counter many situations that evasion would be useful with the ability to heal yourself easily w/ spells or scrolls (max out scroll and wand mastery enchancements), having 4 charges of shroud stoneskin (Two min2's) or use wands of stoneskin, use fireshield scrolls and get firestorm greaves if possible. Get that umd to 40+. Max out balance.

Make sure you are displaced and hasted at all times.

The 4 levels of fighter are fine but like tihocan said, you'll need 18 bard to qualify for Warchanter 3 (Whenever that will come out)

Here's myddo in case you are curious: http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/calandra/

I still have a lot to do in terms of loot hunting.