Swing Speed, ESos, Twitch & Jump Videos

[Hydro]

For your viewing pleasure:


Epic SoS & No Glancing Blows while Twitching

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Zg4mn65gc


Twitchy mobs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKcAb8WCmd4


Jump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3p6nhd7Yqo


Monk Attack Speeds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCyaHYgJnKk


Barbarian Attack Speeds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBfb-X6xak

Enjoy

[grodon9999]

The monk WIndstance looked faster - is it supposed to actually still be faster?

[Coldin]

Air stance will look faster because he didn't have haste on switching between the two stances. Air stance still gives the slight bonus to attack speed (the part that doesn't stack with haste).

I find it funny that the barbarian still managed to take out that name in about 5 swings, even with twitching not working. :)

[Jendrak]

I find it funny that the barbarian still managed to take out that name in about 5 swings, even with twitching not working. :)

Wow.....5 looks a hell of alot like 17 nowdays.

*yes im that bored*:D

[Sweyn]

Just what Perma wanted...

[Wizard_Zero]

That is some amazing damage. You do more damage than a MAXED out Wizard with 600 Polar Ray (with a 4 Second cool down, that's like 150 DPS for a short time). I say nerf some more!

[Coldin]

Wow.....5 looks a hell of alot like 17 nowdays.

*yes im that bored*:D

It was quick regardless! :p

[Shade]

Good videos, at least now those who haven't downloaded can see just how lame it is.


I find it funny that the barbarian still managed to take out that name in about 5 swings, even with twitching not working. :)

The video clearly demonstrates twitch still works, just it doesn't deal glancing blows (which for a weapon with no special effects, made up only 10-15% of your dps, thus twitch is still more dps, as it provides a 20-30% increase).

And it took 19 swings, for a max dps build lvl20 barbarian max buffed with with titan grip, madstone, haste, double frenzy and the best gear in the game and the most powerful epic weapon in the game to kill a regular scaled down solo mode named warforged..

Pathetic. Might as well of been using a vorpal on a 6 str wizard build vs a cr10 hobgoblin. Would of killed it just as fast.

It just shows that THF in general is nerfed. That monks are nerfed, that everything is nerfed. All Monks. All THF. All TWF. Everyone is nerfed.
Everyone THF uses attacks while moving because enemies often move, figure it out - this isn't about twitch.

You wanna know how long it takes to kill a single epic trash mob with these nerfs?
Way too long.

[Coldin]

Looked pretty quick to me, that's all I'm saying.

I find this even more amusing though.

"The video clearly demonstrates twitch still works, just it doesn't deal glancing blows (which for a weapon with no special effects, made up only 10-15% of your dps, thus twitch is still more dps, as it provides a 20-30% increase)."

Followed by this.

"And it took 19 swings, for a max dps build lvl20 barbarian max buffed with with titan grip, madstone, haste, double frenzy and the best gear in the game and the most powerful epic weapon in the game to kill a regular scaled down solo mode named warforged.."

Soooo....the change really didn't nerf twitch because it's still a 20% in damage and the glancing blows didn't matter much...but, you're nerfed because it took 19 swings to kill that named mob.

Really, that just doesn't make any sense. Maybe we should go to live servers and see how long the same build takes down that same monster? I bet you it's only ~20 swings.

Seriously. Stop making this 10% damage reduction this big thing. Because really, it's not. An epic quest may take...5 minutes longer? And considering some of the other changes coming to epic to make parts of it easier, it may even out.

[Shade]

That is some amazing damage. You do more damage than a MAXED out Wizard with 600 Polar Ray (with a 4 Second cool down, that's like 150 DPS for a short time). I say nerf some more!

Yea you really have no idea about the potential of casters then.
Maxxed out polar ray can 1 shot that mob. And kill it in 0.2 seconds (about the casting speed of a quicken polar ray)

It has a max potential damage of over 2500 vs a non weak to ice monster, over 5000 vs weak to ice. The mob in question had about 2500 hp.

Here is one I did vs a non weak to ice mob:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9369/screenshot02985.jpg

And my sorc is not anywhere near maxxed out for damage.

This patch actaully further increases an epic sorcerers damage potential, while massively nerfing melee.

Get the epic gear on your wizard/sorc before you complain about your damage in comparison to a melee fully geared out with epic gear.

[Shade]

I bet you it's only ~20 swings..

Comparing the swings? You really have no idea whats the big nerf here do you?

First off, it would be more then twice as fast. Mostly because the big nerf isn't the damage per swing. It's how fast we swing. It's incredibly slower.

2ndly, it would be about ~12-15 swings on average. Hell I could do it 3-4 with enough luck.

And who cares.

To an epic melee, regular weak trash mobs die really fast. Thats how it is and we really don't care.

Epic monsters do not. Epic is what should be compared.

[Coldin]

Yea you really have no idea about the potential of casters then.
Maxxed out polar ray can 1 shot that mob. And kill it in 0.2 seconds (about the casting speed of a quicken polar ray)

It has a max potential damage of over 2500 vs a non weak to ice monster, over 5000 vs weak to ice. The mob in question had about 2500 hp.

Here is one I did vs a non weak to ice mob:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9369/screenshot02985.jpg

And my sorc is not anywhere near maxxed out for damage.

This patch actaully further increases an epic sorcerers damage potential, while massively nerfing melee.

Get the epic gear on your wizard/sorc before you complain about your damage in comparison to a melee fully geared out with epic gear.

And pray tell how this update does anything to boost the damage of wizards and sorcs? Nothing changed for them besides some extra necro spells.

And let me ask again. Since when did a 10% decrease in damage become a "massive nerf"? I usually only reserve the word "massive" for places of extremes. Like hundreds of thousands. Or...in terms of reduction, maybe 80%. We're nowhere near..."massive".


Comparing the swings? You really have no idea whats the big nerf here do you?

First off, it would be more then twice as fast. Mostly because the big nerf isn't the damage per swing. It's how fast we swing. It's incredibly slower.

2ndly, it would be about ~12-15 swings on average. Hell I could do it 3-4 with enough luck.

And who cares.

To an epic melee, regular weak trash mobs die really fast. Thats how it is and we really don't care.

Epic monsters do not. Epic is what should be compared.

You really like to exagerate, don't you? Are THF slower? I don't remember any patch notes about them seeing a speed reduction. Oh, they did lose glancing blows on moving attacks. But that's not really a speed decrease is it?

[SolarDawning]

Thank you for the videos, Hydro.

Thank you even more for not putting obnoxious music in them.

[Hydro]

I have updated a post with a video that shows why you need to move while attacking with a two hander, it was taken just before the WF kill one.

[Shade]

let me ask again.

Not going to give a detailed answer here because it's really getitng off topc, ask somewhere else in a more appropritae topic for that, but here's the short version:
- It's more then 10%.
- Not only is the speed and glancing blows nerfed, but the weapon he uses as well, a full trifecta of nerfs.
- Casters: There's 2 major factors allowing casters to increase there damage this patch, namely the max potential caster level on polar ray, and ease of acquiring eardwellers.

[Coldin]

I have updated a post with a video that shows why you need to move while attacking with a two hander, it was taken just before the WF kill one.

You might have been easier time with that if you turned more than moved.

Yes, Monsters move. But that is not an excuse that 'Twitching' is needed. That's just part of the active combat system.

I'll be willing to compromise with all the THF people on one thing. They don't get their glancing blows on the first moving attack, but they get it on the second. I'd fight for that for any THF user. But to say you need glancing blows while moving or you won't compete in damage? I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. Monsters don't move that much.

Edit: I shall refrain from posting more since I do appreciate posting the videos. But from my perspective, THF fighting still looks to be a pretty powerful method of attack.

[Wizard_Zero]

Yea you really have no idea about the potential of casters then.
Maxxed out polar ray can 1 shot that mob. And kill it in 0.2 seconds (about the casting speed of a quicken polar ray)

It has a max potential damage of over 2500 vs a non weak to ice monster, over 5000 vs weak to ice. The mob in question had about 2500 hp.

Here is one I did vs a non weak to ice mob:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9369/screenshot02985.jpg

And my sorc is not anywhere near maxxed out for damage.

This patch actaully further increases an epic sorcerers damage potential, while massively nerfing melee.

Get the epic gear on your wizard/sorc before you complain about your damage in comparison to a melee fully geared out with epic gear.

Can I get the gear set up please? Mine currently is:

Telvi's Sash, Superior Ice Lore Scepter, Eardweller, Blue Dragonscale Armor = About a 600 damage and 1750 on a crit.

Only thing I don't have is a ToD complete set for an extra .25% crit multiplier since Arcane Lore and Arch Mage set bonus don't stack.

I don't know what else I could get to make it hit 2500 crit.

[Shade]

that is not an excuse
No one here is making excuses except you.

We have nothing to make them for. We understand the system because we actaully play it.

You come here to put others down because you personally enjoy a diferent style of play on your main characters and have care for this particular one. You make the excuses for that.

[smatt]

Comparing the swings? You really have no idea whats the big nerf here do you?

First off, it would be more then twice as fast. Mostly because the big nerf isn't the damage per swing. It's how fast we swing. It's incredibly slower.

2ndly, it would be about ~12-15 swings on average. Hell I could do it 3-4 with enough luck.

And who cares.

To an epic melee, regular weak trash mobs die really fast. Thats how it is and we really don't care.

Epic monsters do not. Epic is what should be compared. Can I have your autograph?

[oberon131313]

Can I get the gear set up please? Mine currently is:

Telvi's Sash, Superior Ice Lore Scepter, Eardweller, Blue Dragonscale Armor = About a 600 damage and 1750 on a crit.

Only thing I don't have is a ToD complete set for an extra .25% crit multiplier since Arcane Lore and Arch Mage set bonus don't stack.

I don't know what else I could get to make it hit 2500 crit.

Shade is neglecting to mention that his "not even maxed damage" sorc has the capstone, the epic wand from sentinels (that is most of what you are missing)

[Coldin]

No one here is making excuses except you.

We have nothing to make them for. We understand the system because we actaully play it.

You come here to put others down because you personally enjoy a diferent style of play on your main characters and have care for this particular one. You make the excuses for that.

Please....making statements about my lack of playing is very annoying and simply not true.

There's all this whine over the forums about the nerf, but so much of it is exagerrated to such a great degree.

Yes, SoS took a nerf. Was a +10 greatsword with an 18-20/x4 crit range really not overpowered, even for an Epic weapon? Looking at the nerfed version of the sword, it still looks pretty crazy.

Yes, twitching took a nerf, but only about the same amount as all the other TWF styles got.

What else is there? Attack speed for Barbs didn't change. Paladins got slightly slower, but gained the Double Strike ability which seems to be a fair compensation so far since it allows for more smites.

I'm still not seeing where the speed got nerfed. Madstone rage? That's a relatively minor decrease, and madstone boots still have that nice ability to boost strength by +4.

But...I forgot. All these nerfs are a major thing. How can we possibly kill anything now that we deal 0 damage. Because killing a rednamed monster out in 12 hits opposed to 10, and each of those hits taking .25 seconds longer is such a terrible tragedy. Really...we're all doomed.


Btw. Do you really think that the eardweller will be easier to get? They really just added it to more quests, and only the quests where you enter the dreamworld, which just makes sense. All it really does is make it less boring to get, since players won't have to do Eye of the Titan a hundred times.

Edit: I will give Hydro some pos rep for making and posting these videos. And to make amends for this hijack of the thread.

[nicro]

Can I get the gear set up please? Mine currently is:

Telvi's Sash, Superior Ice Lore Scepter, Eardweller, Blue Dragonscale Armor = About a 600 damage and 1750 on a crit.

Only thing I don't have is a ToD complete set for an extra .25% crit multiplier since Arcane Lore and Arch Mage set bonus don't stack.

I don't know what else I could get to make it hit 2500 crit.

Do you also have maximize and empower running along with the fire/cold enhancements?

[Sweyn]

Shade is neglecting to mention that his "not even maxed damage" sorc has the capstone, the epic wan from sentinels (that is most of what you are missing) and probably the full archmage set bonus from TOD.

Ahh yes, but he does not have the Eardweller, which, without it, is not considered "Maxed damage" to me

[Wizard_Zero]

Shade is neglecting to mention that his "not even maxed damage" sorc has the capstone, the epic wand from sentinels (that is most of what you are missing)

Cool, ty for the reply. I didn't think the Eardweller would stack with that Wand, since it's not stacking with anything else. Guess I'll start grinding for that wand.

[Shade]

Attack speed for Barbs didn't change.

Really you said you were going to stop.
You have no idea about the barbarian class, What nerfs are happening, or much anything at all these videos are demonstrating, so why do you continue to put them down wiht conjecture and talk about things like you are the authority on them?

Fact: Barbarian's who use madstone attack speed was nerfed by over 15% this patch. Actaully every full BAB class that uses it is being nerfed by as much, if not more. I guess you haven't a single one? mm your signature shows some.. Perhaps you just never logged on lamannia to even try.

To me it "feels" closer to 20-30% nerf. The videos show that. Playing the game shows that.

You can't see it because you don't play one, so really. Stop.

[DemonMage]

Cool, ty for the reply. I didn't think the Eardweller would stack with that Wand, since it's not stacking with anything else. Guess I'll start grinding for that wand.

The wand gives +1 to caster level when casting Polar Ray, which since it scales past 20, increases the base damage on it. That's the important part of the wand, as nothing else offers that.

[Coldin]

Really you said you were going to stop.
You have no idea about the barbarian class, What nerfs are happening, or much anything at all these videos are demonstrating, so why do you continue to put them down wiht conjecture and talk about things like you are the authority on them?

Fact: Barbarian attack speed was nerfed by over 15% this patch.

To me it "feels" closer to 20-30% nerf. The videos show that. Playing the game shows that.

You can't see it because you don't play one, so really. Stop.

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

Edit: Ah, now I remember. Eladrin mentioned that Barbarians were getting a hidden Alacrity bonus with their capstone. And that bug got fixed with this mod. So...your attack speed decrease was just a bug being fixed.

[DemonMage]

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

It's not THF specific, it's the barbarian capstone fix that he's talking about I believe.

[Shade]

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

I don't care what you have to say about whos right.

The devs don't care either.

They don't put nerfs into the release notes.

They delete entire topics that list all of the nerfs that do not break any forum rules too like the one I made. So if I even try to explain it to you, this topic will get deleted as well.

This is not a open forum. We don't have the rights to talk about nerfs openly. The moderators reserve the right to delete any and all topics that discuss them, and they are purposely not put in the release notes.


ruining the game was just a bug being fixed.
When the tables are turned, and your favorite class/style is nerfed/deleted/destroyed and the excuse was "bug fix". Remember that you said that. If you haven't the logic to understand how wrong you were now, perhaps then you will understand. I've really had enough of your lack of knowledge on the subject and excuses tho, so this is my last reply to you.

[Wizard_Zero]

Do you also have maximize and empower running along with the fire/cold enhancements?

Yup, got everything maxed in enhancements for fire/ice and max+emp.

[Coldin]

It's not THF specific, it's the barbarian capstone fix that he's talking about I believe.

*nod* I just remembered that.

Btw Shade. The devs don't like mindless whining. That's why they close threads. Maybe offer some constructive criticism on why the Barbarians should keep their hidden alacrity capstone, or why they should keep glancing blows while moving.

Simply saying, "omg, we got nerfed" does little to sway opinion. Now if you can point to numbers saying "We got nerfed, and now THF frenzied barbarians are behind the damage curve to even S&B rogues" then that's actually saying something.

Sometimes, things need to be nerfed to bring things into balance. That's the price we play for an ever evolving game. If you never want to experience a balance pass (or nerf), stick to single player console games.

[Emili]

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

Edit: Ah, now I remember. Eladrin mentioned that Barbarians were getting a hidden Alacrity bonus with their capstone. And that bug got fixed with this mod. So...your attack speed decrease was just a bug being fixed.
:(

I do not belive he has to... it can be seen in the video that the barb under madstone is clearly less effective.

He touts 20% less but what I seen from the attack count is somewhere seems to require more to bring sown that that mob compared to what one may do today against with a barb on live server ... question I have now is do they plan on adjusting epic mob down by a decent %.

[Coldin]

:(

I do not belive he has to... it can be seen in the video that the barb under madstone is clearly less effective.

He touts 20% less but what I seen from the attack count is somewhere seems to require more to bring sown that that mob compared to what one may do today against with a barb on live server ... question I have now is do they plan on adjusting epic mob down by a decent %.



Well, from the release notes and what Eladrin's said, most trash Epic mobs are taking hits to their attack rolls and saves.

Most of the epic content I've run though we seem to go pretty quickly through most trash mobs.

[Emili]

Well, from the release notes and what Eladrin's said, most trash Epic mobs are taking hits to their attack rolls and saves.

Most of the epic content I've run though we seem to go pretty quickly through most trash mobs.
Done tried one, I'll play with it some more but so far I do hate the feel of it, feels like we've in far less control of character in combat ... they just do not play anywhere close to near the same. :( Maybe is time to be looking elsewheres.

[78mackson]

now, I´m confused..

have they changed the attack speed(not counting madstone-nerf now).. the swing animation speed.

10% slower animation would bug me more then 10% less dmg, truth be told.

[Hydro]

now, I´m confused..

have they changed the attack speed(not counting madstone-nerf now).. the swing animation speed.

10% slower animation would bug me more then 10% less dmg, truth be told.

Yes basically every class got a 10% reduced attack speed and animation, 15% if you count Madstone. Only unique builds might not of been affected by this (THF Ranger or rogue).

[Boromirs]

Yes basically every class got a 10% reduced attack speed and animation, 15% if you count Madstone. Only unique builds might not of been affected by this (THF Ranger or rogue).

No, if you are "unique" build you get even more screwed since you forgo the capstone and you lose the later prestige enhancements. ALL the flavor builds just about got annihalated, across the board including fvs and classes that don't seem too directly tied to melee.

[Chai]

I don't care what you have to say about whos right.

The devs don't care either.

They don't put nerfs into the release notes.

They delete entire topics that list all of the nerfs that do not break any forum rules too like the one I made. So if I even try to explain it to you, this topic will get deleted as well.

This is not a open forum. We don't have the rights to talk about nerfs openly. The moderators reserve the right to delete any and all topics that discuss them, and they are purposely not put in the release notes.


When the tables are turned, and your favorite class/style is nerfed/deleted/destroyed and the excuse was "bug fix". Remember that you said that. If you haven't the logic to understand how wrong you were now, perhaps then you will understand. I've really had enough of your lack of knowledge on the subject and excuses tho, so this is my last reply to you.


Ok dude, I think you might need to sit the next few plays out. Its obvious you are angry, but I have never seen more absolutism out of you than in the past few days, and I have seen ALOT of absolutism out of you in the past. This is getting extreme.

Every single thing anyone has said that doesnt agree with your opinion of the situation, you respond with "you dont know about barbarians" or "you dont know about THF" and this above all else is getting really old.

All this "lack of knowledge" stuff is making you look really immature, and is not only making people not want to take your gloom and doom posts seriously, but it is making all the people who have disagreed with you in the past crawl out of the woodwork just so they can point and laugh. I have really never seen you encourage this type of mentality up until now. People have disagreed with you alot in the past, and I have never seen you with this kind of rage induced attitude in your responses back to them.

People who agree with some of the things in the great nerf of 2010 are not all doing so out of lack of knowledge. As far as the tables being turned, I remember what your responses were in the great WoP debacle of yesteryear. I think the tables are indeed turned. This is why alot of this attention is on you now, because you have championed the THF playstyle shamelessly on the open forums for a few years.

While you have the right to say what youre saying I believe the people who agree with parts of the nerf also have that right, without being shouted down with responses based on "lack of knowledge."

[Coldin]

now, I´m confused..

have they changed the attack speed(not counting madstone-nerf now).. the swing animation speed.

10% slower animation would bug me more then 10% less dmg, truth be told.

Rogues don't have a slower animation. They do get about 1 less off hand attack per animation cycle as Eladrin pointed out.

Zeal and the Fighter Capstone got changed to deal 10% doublestrikes instead of a 10% speed bonus, so those basically even out.

The Barbarian capstone got fixed and no longer gives a hidden 10% speed increase, so pure barbs do attack slower.

[Zion_Halcyon]

It's not THF specific, it's the barbarian capstone fix that he's talking about I believe.

The same one that he for the longest time denied existed and ripped on people who said it did?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

- Casters: There's 2 major factors allowing casters to increase there damage this patch, namely the max potential caster level on polar ray, and ease of acquiring eardwellers.

What is changing in this patch about the ease of acquiring eardwellers?

Garth

[Xaxx]

so they finally change madstone speed this long after the haste nerf (it really should have been done then) and the barb capstone looses its speed bonus (which it shouldnt have ever had anyway)... you know im not seeing major speed nerfs here....corrections for what should have been done, or just never should have been in anyway.. yeah... (and oh btw I have a barb and a thf fvs so i dont wanna hear from anyone especially shade that I dont know what im talking about)

[gemineye]

Rogues don't have a slower animation. They do get about 1 less off hand attack per animation cycle as Eladrin pointed out.

Zeal and the Fighter Capstone got changed to deal 10% doublestrikes instead of a 10% speed bonus, so those basically even out.

The Barbarian capstone got fixed and no longer gives a hidden 10% speed increase, so pure barbs do attack slower.

# Barbarian Might

* Prerequisites: Level 20 Barbarian, 74 Action points spent
* Cost: 2 Action Points
* Benefit: Your biceps are frequently mistaken for slabs of ham. Your strength is increased by 2, and when wielding two handed weapons you have increased glancing blow damage and an increased chance of applying weapon special effects on glancing blows.

This...It is still not working!!! At least with the 10% alacrity bug it made it worth taking. It does not add ANY increased damage or increased chances for glancing blow procs! And with the removal of glancing blows while moving, this capstone should be changed and/or fixed.

[stainer]

What is changing in this patch about the ease of acquiring eardwellers?

Garth

They drop in more quests. I believe they *may* drop more frequently, but I may have screwed that up in my limited reading skil.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

They drop in more quests. I believe they *may* drop more frequently, but I may have screwed that up in my limited reading skil.

ah cool I didn't see that in the release notes! I was getting a bit fed up with running Eye of the Titan over (http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/haezon/log/) and over and over so it'll be a welcome change to run Inspiration Center over and over and over instead.

Garth

[Tap4black]

Ok dude, I think you might need to sit the next few plays out. Its obvious you are angry, but I have never seen more absolutism out of you than in the past few days, and I have seen ALOT of absolutism out of you in the past. This is getting extreme.

Every single thing anyone has said that doesnt agree with your opinion of the situation, you respond with "you dont know about barbarians" or "you dont know about THF" and this above all else is getting really old.

All this "lack of knowledge" stuff is making you look really immature, and is not only making people not want to take your gloom and doom posts seriously, but it is making all the people who have disagreed with you in the past crawl out of the woodwork just so they can point and laugh. I have really never seen you encourage this type of mentality up until now. People have disagreed with you alot in the past, and I have never seen you with this kind of rage induced attitude in your responses back to them.

People who agree with some of the things in the great nerf of 2010 are not all doing so out of lack of knowledge. As far as the tables being turned, I remember what your responses were in the great WoP debacle of yesteryear. I think the tables are indeed turned. This is why alot of this attention is on you now, because you have championed the THF playstyle shamelessly on the open forums for a few years.

While you have the right to say what youre saying I believe the people who agree with parts of the nerf also have that right, without being shouted down with responses based on "lack of knowledge."

This post is so full of win!

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

This post is so full of win!

we should all drink every time Shade says 'nerf'. That would make the forums far more fun.

Garth

[Xaxx]

we should all drink every time Shade says 'nerf'. That would make the forums far more fun.

Garth

we'd all die of alchohol poisoning in 20 mins... 20 seconds for the lightweights...

[Monkey_Archer]

The video clearly demonstrates twitch still works, just it doesn't deal glancing blows (which for a weapon with no special effects, made up only 10-15% of your dps, thus twitch is still more dps, as it provides a 20-30% increase).

*pokes Shade with stick*

Depending on the weapon and effects, glancing blows can be up to 20% of your dps... Twitch, at best, only provides a 20% increase in attack speed...

Just face it.. the THF style is dead.

[SquelchHU]

*pokes Shade with stick*

Depending on the weapon and effects, glancing blows can be up to 20% of your dps... Twitch, at best, only provides a 20% increase in attack speed...

Just face it.. the melee style is dead.

Fixed.

[REALb0r3d]

They made the speed increase on MS boots give a bonus to doublestrike, so there is a melee buff in there, its just not the ~4% speed increase it was.

[Coldin]

They made the speed increase on MS boots give a bonus to doublestrike, so there is a melee buff in there, its just not the ~4% speed increase it was.

Did they? I haven't seen that.

[REALb0r3d]

With all the whining threads (I whined on them too) I don't want to look through and find the person that tested it.

[Chai]

we'd all die of alchohol poisoning in 20 mins... 20 seconds for the lightweights...

Give me about 30 minutes. I'm a lightweight, but you'd be surprised how much of the creature someone we consider lightweight up here in the Scon can put down. :D

If you change the rules to include the words / phrases "nerf" and "dps", I hope you acquired the services of a clean up crew in advance.

[kingfisher]

They made the speed increase on MS boots give a bonus to doublestrike, so there is a melee buff in there, its just not the ~4% speed increase it was.

this confirmed? does it apply to those that dont have a natural double strike chance as well?

[Coldin]

Just tried to test it on my rogue. It could be a very small percentage, but I didn't see any doublestrike chance.

[Arkat]

It's funnier that you have no idea what your talking about yet act like you do.



Yea you really have no idea about the potential of casters then.



Comparing the swings? You really have no idea whats the big nerf here do you?



Really you said you were going to stop.
You have no idea about the barbarian class, What nerfs are happening, or much anything at all these videos are demonstrating...


Is it just me or is anyone else sensing a theme here??


Seriously Axer, you're not the only one who knows how to play the game here.

[Cetus]

Ok dude, I think you might need to sit the next few plays out. Its obvious you are angry, but I have never seen more absolutism out of you than in the past few days, and I have seen ALOT of absolutism out of you in the past. This is getting extreme.

Every single thing anyone has said that doesnt agree with your opinion of the situation, you respond with "you dont know about barbarians" or "you dont know about THF" and this above all else is getting really old.

All this "lack of knowledge" stuff is making you look really immature, and is not only making people not want to take your gloom and doom posts seriously, but it is making all the people who have disagreed with you in the past crawl out of the woodwork just so they can point and laugh. I have really never seen you encourage this type of mentality up until now. People have disagreed with you alot in the past, and I have never seen you with this kind of rage induced attitude in your responses back to them.

People who agree with some of the things in the great nerf of 2010 are not all doing so out of lack of knowledge. As far as the tables being turned, I remember what your responses were in the great WoP debacle of yesteryear. I think the tables are indeed turned. This is why alot of this attention is on you now, because you have championed the THF playstyle shamelessly on the open forums for a few years.

While you have the right to say what youre saying I believe the people who agree with parts of the nerf also have that right, without being shouted down with responses based on "lack of knowledge."


Although I am guilty of this myself, patronizing other people that don't agree with you is not the way to handle this. BUT, I am also equally furious as shade is about these nerfs simply because the game has lost a core mechanic in which melees thrived and had FUN.

The loss of attack speed, loss of glancing blows, nerf to madstone boots, nerf to the sword of shadows, nerf to the ENTIRE COMBAT SYSTEM is going to result in a massive withdrawal of enthusiasm for melee characters.

Those people who question the ferocity with which those, such as myself and shade, reply with; should first question what kind of an intimate connection we had with what is being destroyed. When you say "its not that big a deal" or "the devs haven't said this" or "the tables have turned..its about time" have no idea of what is really being impacted here. Its not saying, "you are dumb", its saying "you don' have a relationship with this like I did."

[Cetus]

*pokes Shade with stick*

Depending on the weapon and effects, glancing blows can be up to 20% of your dps... Twitch, at best, only provides a 20% increase in attack speed...

Just face it.. the THF style is dead.

Even with this nerfdate, THF'ers are going to be far from dead in the eyes of TWF.

[Shade]

Seriously Axer, you're not the only one who knows how to play the game here.

Between me and you, and the 2 people all of your OUT OF CONTEXT quotes were refering too..

Perhaps thats 2 people that know a bit about the game. That doesn't make the quotes wrong.

[Tolero]

This is pretty much the last warning I'm going to give about cat fighting on the forums. Further bickering, name-calling, and other rules breakage will land you in time-out for the weekend.

[Dylos_Moon]

This is pretty much the last warning I'm going to give about cat fighting on the forums. Further bickering, name-calling, and other rules breakage will land you in time-out for the weekend.

but he hit me first *pouts*

[Tolero]

but he hit me first *pouts*

Don't make me pull this forum over and come back there

[Dylos_Moon]

Don't make me pull this forum over and come back there

Hmm, I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours.

[kaelis]

Don't make me pull this forum over and come back there

:( Your quotes are getting to good tolero. Now I have to choose which one to put in my sig

[Propane]

Don't make me pull this forum over and come back there

Ha - that made me laugh outloud :)

[Dylos_Moon]

:( Your quotes are getting to good tolero. Now I have to choose which one to put in my sig

Tell ya what, I'll take this one, you keep that one.

[kaelis]

Tell ya what, I'll take this one, you keep that one.
Hmph...





Fine.



...(I can has larger signature nao please?)

[Strakeln]

I don't care what you have to say about whos right.

The devs don't care either.

They don't put nerfs into the release notes.

They delete entire topics that list all of the nerfs that do not break any forum rules too like the one I made. So if I even try to explain it to you, this topic will get deleted as well.

This is not a open forum. We don't have the rights to talk about nerfs openly. The moderators reserve the right to delete any and all topics that discuss them, and they are purposely not put in the release notes.
There is a place where such moderation does not occur, and it's open to everyone. Come on over!

I've said it many times before - dealing with Turbine can be like dealing with the devil. You ask the devil for the hottest woman in the world to love you unconditionally... *poof* your mom just got really hot.

We ask for lag fixes... *poof* Dungeon Alert
We ask for fixes to the actual lag... *poof* huge melee nerf
We ask for solo mode on more dungeons... *poof* solo-mode-whether-you-like-it-or-not (a.k.a. Dungeon Scaling)
We ask for more content... *poof* epic mode to replay old content with

on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...

Specifically on this melee change and the haste nerf prior to it... I think Turbine has forgotten something important: speed is fun.

[Weeday]

speed is fun.

No, drugs are bad! :o