Lingering spells now fade if the caster gets too far away or dies.

[rest]

:(

Sad panda.

[MrCow]

This includes enemies as well as players. I've had plenty of sleet storms instantly shut off when I killed the caster.

[Jay203]

good news! :)

[SolarDawning]

This includes enemies as well as players. I've had plenty of sleet storms instantly shut off when I killed the caster.

Awesome news. This is a change I wholeheartedly approve of.

[Temko]

Awesome news. This is a change I wholeheartedly approve of.

if for real. this.


NEVER EVER DYING IN ****** SLEETSTORMS AGAIN *Cheers*

[rest]

This includes enemies as well as players. I've had plenty of sleet storms instantly shut off when I killed the caster.

Well I guess it's not all bad then.
Thanks for looking at the glass-half-full portion of this, MrCow. I only saw the negatives.

[Quijonsith]

I wonder how this will affect casters kiting part 2 of ToD. How far away does the caster have to get for the lingering spell to fade? (firewall, blade barrier, etc).
I may have to kite it full time on my monk instead of the part time I already do.

[KRaNiX1337]

Whats the range, cos ToD part 2 may just have become a real hassle.

[Cyr]

Whats the range, cos ToD part 2 may just have become a real hassle.

This.

[arminius]

Why approve with so little info?

How far away is away? Will cloudkills disappear on one side of a room by the time you get to the other?

How many times have you had to essentially be a suicide bomber to save the party? I have! You get trapped and just fling down as many walls of fire as you can before you die. Then the beasts continue to cook and die, so your sacrifice was worth it.

How about at the end of VOD, where you are counting on cloudkills and blade barriers to save the party from the 'splodey bats? Oops, caster and cleric goes down and EVERYTHING they cast blanketing the room disappears? You're kidding?

What about spells that are designed from the ground up to be "cast and forget" spells like glyphs or the trap version of delayed blast fireball?

There is no -- absolutely no -- logical, empirical, or otherwise connection between a caster's continued survival and the continuation of a spell that that caster cast. A caster does not need to continue concentrating on a spell to keep it alive. Once it is cast it has it's own existence.

Can anyone, using Dungeons and Dragons rules, explain why all spells should disappear when the caster dies? If it was a spell that requires specific concentration the entire time it is up, like the Druid spell where you call in a storm and smite your opponents with lightning, then sure. There aren't any spells in DDO like that. The best I would say is, when the caster dies some enchantment spells might fail. But while straight charms might fail, I can see where something like Disco Ball should not.

So I am strongly against this on both metagame and common sense PnP rules grounds. Why change something so pointless?

[Anthios888]

Why approve with so little info?

How far away is away? Will cloudkills disappear on one side of a room by the time you get to the other?

How many times have you had to essentially be a suicide bomber to save the party? I have! You get trapped and just fling down as many walls of fire as you can before you die. Then the beasts continue to cook and die, so your sacrifice was worth it.

How about at the end of VOD, where you are counting on cloudkills and blade barriers to save the party from the 'splodey bats? Oops, caster and cleric goes down and EVERYTHING they cast blanketing the room disappears? You're kidding?

What about spells that are designed from the ground up to be "cast and forget" spells like glyphs or the trap version of delayed blast fireball?

There is no -- absolutely no -- logical, empirical, or otherwise connection between a caster's continued survival and the continuation of a spell that that caster cast. A caster does not need to continue concentrating on a spell to keep it alive. Once it is cast it has it's own existence.

Can anyone, using Dungeons and Dragons rules, explain why all spells should disappear when the caster dies? If it was a spell that requires specific concentration the entire time it is up, like the Druid spell where you call in a storm and smite your opponents with lightning, then sure. There aren't any spells in DDO like that. The best I would say is, when the caster dies some enchantment spells might fail. But while straight charms might fail, I can see where something like Disco Ball should not.

So I am strongly against this on both metagame and common sense PnP rules grounds. Why change something so pointless?

Do we even have any idea of how big the range is here? Is this just an effort to stop folks from dropping firewalls and d-dooring, a method many use to solo quests where they would otherwise get smoked?

[REALb0r3d]

Helps with lag?

"We're attacking this problem on multiple fronts..."

[Clay]

There is no lag in DDO... must be your ISP.

[Cyr]

There is no lag in DDO... must be your ISP.

Of course there is...anytime the devs want to nerf something else.

[Eladiun]

Is this just an effort to stop folks from dropping firewalls and d-dooring, a method many use to solo quests where they would otherwise get smoked?

I don't have any issue if that's the reason either. I hate cheese on my MMO. And yeah to Sleet Storms, FW, and Cloudkills hanging around after MoB death.

[MrCow]

How far away is away? Will cloudkills disappear on one side of a room by the time you get to the other?

Approximately 170 in-game feet. If you have Very High Object Draw Distance, it will persist a little bit further than you can see your own persistent effects.

[arminius]

Actually, for fans of this change, to be consistent it should apply to buffs too.

That would be extra funny. Sorc goes down, every person in the party loses Blur, Displacement, Resists, Protections, Greater Heroism, Stoneskin, Jump and Haste. Everyone stands there, naked as jaybirds, with that goofy slack-jawed dumbfounded look, 30 feet in front of the armies of hell arrayed before them.

I'd pay to see that. It would almost make it worth it. Anyone in favor of this daffy change should also be in favor of this. After all, it is spells that that caster cast, so it must disappear on death, right?

[Vallon_Zek]

i think this is good!

[Cyr]

Do we even have any idea of how big the range is here? Is this just an effort to stop folks from dropping firewalls and d-dooring, a method many use to solo quests where they would otherwise get smoked?

That would be suprising considering I have heard zero complaints about this practice or even about this practice period prior to your post. Seems like a dumb strategy to me except in the quests where the entrance is closer to where you want to go then the path you are on. It's not like it is rocket science to jump around in circles after all.

[Cyr]

Approximately 170 in-game feet. If you have Very High Object Draw Distance, it will persist a little bit further than you can see your own persistent effects.

Translation, does that mean it does not effect kiting in ToD at all?

[Wizzly_Bear]

Why approve with so little info?

How far away is away? Will cloudkills disappear on one side of a room by the time you get to the other?

How many times have you had to essentially be a suicide bomber to save the party? I have! You get trapped and just fling down as many walls of fire as you can before you die. Then the beasts continue to cook and die, so your sacrifice was worth it.

How about at the end of VOD, where you are counting on cloudkills and blade barriers to save the party from the 'splodey bats? Oops, caster and cleric goes down and EVERYTHING they cast blanketing the room disappears? You're kidding?

What about spells that are designed from the ground up to be "cast and forget" spells like glyphs or the trap version of delayed blast fireball?

There is no -- absolutely no -- logical, empirical, or otherwise connection between a caster's continued survival and the continuation of a spell that that caster cast. A caster does not need to continue concentrating on a spell to keep it alive. Once it is cast it has it's own existence.

Can anyone, using Dungeons and Dragons rules, explain why all spells should disappear when the caster dies? If it was a spell that requires specific concentration the entire time it is up, like the Druid spell where you call in a storm and smite your opponents with lightning, then sure. There aren't any spells in DDO like that. The best I would say is, when the caster dies some enchantment spells might fail. But while straight charms might fail, I can see where something like Disco Ball should not.

So I am strongly against this on both metagame and common sense PnP rules grounds. Why change something so pointless?
/qft

This is just yet another anti-zerg tool. No more running through quests dropping firewalls and bbs as you go. I'd be smad if I hadn't already quit. So here's some smad for the rest of you zergers out there :mad::(

[Wizzly_Bear]

Actually, for fans of this change, to be consistent it should apply to buffs too.

That would be extra funny. Sorc goes down, every person in the party loses Blur, Displacement, Resists, Protections, Greater Heroism, Stoneskin, Jump and Haste. Everyone stands there, naked as jaybirds, with that goofy slack-jawed dumbfounded look, 30 feet in front of the armies of hell arrayed before them.

I'd pay to see that. It would almost make it worth it. Anyone in favor of this daffy change should also be in favor of this. After all, it is spells that that caster cast, so it must disappear on death, right?
/qft

and a virtual +1 (given out too much lovin lately, sorry)

[rimble]

This includes enemies as well as players. I've had plenty of sleet storms instantly shut off when I killed the caster.

As much as I hate things like Sleet Storm...this doesn't feel right...I guess primarily because of the distinction in PnP between spells that require Concentration and those that are set-it-and-forget-it. The magic energy has been released, it should be allowed to run its course.

[MrCow]

Translation, does that mean it does not effect kiting in ToD at all?

Are your Walls of Fire visible at all times when kiting?

You'll be fine so long as you don't make your laps excessively wide, there is enough space. That room, if I remember correctly, is ~200 feet from the door to the throne (south to north).

[Ollathir]

Approximately 170 in-game feet. If you have Very High Object Draw Distance, it will persist a little bit further than you can see your own persistent effects.


Translation, does that mean it does not effect kiting in ToD at all?

My thoughts would be that it may effect kiting in ToD. Thats a pretty big laggy room.

[Ollathir]

Are your Walls of Fire visible at all times when kiting?

You'll be fine so long as you don't make your laps excessively wide, there is enough space.

Has anyone run ToD on Lama?

[KRaNiX1337]

Its more for epic ****, where jumping and evading doesnt always work. Instead, I have seen others gather up a ton of mobs, throw down a dd, center a firewall on the dd, and then run up and take the ddoor when the mobs get in range of the firewall. At that point every mob stands around like a lemming waiting to die.

Heres an alternative, make mobs keep agro when dd's are used, and run to the dungeon entrance. If they bounce back, it probably wont be into a firewall.

Perfect solution, without messing with any other mechanics.


That would be suprising considering I have heard zero complaints about this practice or even about this practice period prior to your post. Seems like a dumb strategy to me except in the quests where the entrance is closer to where you want to go then the path you are on. It's not like it is rocket science to jump around in circles after all.

[Cyr]

Are your Walls of Fire visible at all times when kiting?

You'll be fine so long as you don't make your laps excessively wide, there is enough space. That room, if I remember correctly, is ~200 feet from the door to the throne (south to north).

So yes it could effect kiting as the width of the room also applies. Thanks for the info MrCow.

[Vordax]

Approximately 170 in-game feet. If you have Very High Object Draw Distance, it will persist a little bit further than you can see your own persistent effects.

So if a caster goes through his own D-door first, does the D-door go away?

Vordax

[Wizzly_Bear]

So if a caster goes through his own D-door first, does the D-door go away?

Vordax
lol! awesome

virtual +1 (im out for the day)

[Cyr]

So if a caster goes through his own D-door first, does the D-door go away?

Vordax

lol, okay that is a funny idea.

[Sirea]

So if a caster goes through his own D-door first, does the D-door go away?

Vordax

Good point.

[MrCow]

So if a caster goes through his own D-door first, does the D-door go away?

This currently includes Dimension Door. Submit your bug reports. ;)

[arminius]

Its more for epic ****, where jumping and evading doesnt always work. Instead, I have seen others gather up a ton of mobs, throw down a dd, center a firewall on the dd, and then run up and take the ddoor when the mobs get in range of the firewall. At that point every mob stands around like a lemming waiting to die.

Heres an alternative, make mobs keep agro when dd's are used, and run to the dungeon entrance. If they bounce back, it probably wont be into a firewall.

Perfect solution, without messing with any other mechanics.

If this is really the reason, then shame on people who do that. And your idea is much better than this blanket nonsensical nerf.

I thought of another situation where death of the caster would turn the entire quest into a nightmare: The end of New Invasion. Cleric or Favored Soul goes down, and 2300+ sp worth of extended maximized empowered blade barriers go POOF!

I wonder how you'd get those 2300+ sp back. If only there was a way, where you could, you know, Pay Turbine Money, and you could get your sp back. If only.....

[Ollathir]

this Currently Includes Dimension Door. Submit Your Bug Reports. ;)

Lmao

[rimble]

This currently includes Dimension Door. Submit your bug reports. ;)

Win!

[Dark_Helmet]

So if a caster goes through his own D-door first, does the D-door go away?

Vordax

And does he hear the screams from the party members as they die? They should do voicechat in the same manner. :rolleyes:

This is a tough issue for me: Where in D&D are these bastard rules coming from? Only certain spells are LOS or require concentration to maintain.
Yes, I do understand they are trying to address "lag" - probably the monsters will go off alert once they aren't near your spell effects - as well as nerfing cheesy tactics (such as recalling out of a dungeon and re-entering. I just wish there was a better way...

[Rydlic]

This currently includes Dimension Door. Submit your bug reports. ;)

Wow....

[Gnorbert]

Yup.. this one is pretty dumb. As much as I hate enemy sleet storm, I prefer my magic to make sense.

[Ranmaru2]

So wait..if I Irresistible Dance a mob and then run to the shrine, using the dance to buy me time, and the shrine is out of sight range on the mob does that mean the Irresistible Dance is now cut off? I'll have to test this in the desert...

[Seikojin]

What about Enlarge? Does that allow it to stay on further away too?

I know a ton of wiz and sorcs dont do it, but I love long range casting.

I don't mind this change actiongly. I know it flies in defiance of the way magic works in pnp, but it is an mmo, and speed = king. I can see how servers tracking spells can cause lag.

[Qzipoun]

So wait..if I Irresistible Dance a mob and then run to the shrine, using the dance to buy me time, and the shrine is out of sight range on the mob does that mean the Irresistible Dance is now cut off? I'll have to test this in the desert...

This would make no sense... There are so many times where you drop a spell and move away


Now if there are archers or a mob in a pit/ lower level room, and I drop a firewall on them I have to sit and baby sit them for them to die? Huh!?


Also, implementation fail on DDoor... Quite the funny fail too

[cdemeritt]

Well, a quick test for me alievated some fear.. The distance one can get from a firewall seems to be far enough as not to affect the kite in TOD pt2. The whole everything goes away on a casters death, well, I didn't try that.... but doesn't sound right, and will most likely lead to even less casters being welcome in end game content... Especially the low con ones...

Oh and for the record, I agree, If it affects AoE's, it should affect Buffs... (don't like either thought), and those who zerg too far from the caster/cleric should also loose their buffs... (oh the pain that would cause)...

The DDoor thing is just silly...

[MrkGrismer]

Apparently everybody is really only summoned now (both friend and foe), as this is all I could find in the SRD:


When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

[MrCow]

So wait..if I Irresistible Dance a mob and then run to the shrine, using the dance to buy me time, and the shrine is out of sight range on the mob does that mean the Irresistible Dance is now cut off? I'll have to test this in the desert...

This change won't effect direct target spells. I can, for instance, Greater Command something, run halfway across the zone, run back, and the thing will still be on its back (providing it didn't make a save).

[Ranmaru2]

This change won't effect direct target spells. I can, for instance, Greater Command something, run halfway across the zone, run back, and the thing will still be on its back (providing it didn't make a save).

Ah ok. I wasn't sure if the devs went full on with this :)

[Seelowe]

I see how this can be useful in reducing lag and similar, but I truly hope not all spells will be treated in the same manner.
Even if the devs do not wish to go strictly by dnd rules as to which spells are affected, some for which this change is absolutely nonsensical like ddoor should be reconsidered.

as for zerging, i hardly think that a blade or fw outside the suggested 170 feet behind you would be of much use to any zerging practise... other than the few situations of mostly epic desert that I can think of off the top of my head where ppl are/might be using this *whistles*

[FauxSho]

Anyone want to work up a list of which spells are affected and which are not affected by this change? I know it would be a pain to test, but it would be greatly appreciated. Pretty please?

I'm concerned about the impacts on crowd control spells more than I am about WoF and BB, actually... Charming or immobilizing a group and doing something somewhere else (assuming >170ft) is interesting. Doing the same thing and having to sit and watch or have them come after you once you go around the next corner is not quite so fun. The DDoor implementation is hilariously idiotic.

Edit:

This change won't effect direct target spells. I can, for instance, Greater Command something, run halfway across the zone, run back, and the thing will still be on its back (providing it didn't make a save).
I think this answers my question, for the most part, but a list would still be useful.

[MrCow]

Anyone want to work up a list of which spells are affected and which are not affected by this change?


Obscuring Mist
Fog Cloud
Stinking Cloud
Solid Fog
Cloudkill
Incendiary Cloud
Sleet Storm
Wall of Fire
Blade Barrier
Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Glitterdust
Hypnotic Pattern
Web
Mind Fog
Acid Fog
Dimension Door


The spells I didn't test were the Globes of Invulnerability, as my Lamannia Wizard doesn't have them.

[Zombiekenny]

I would actually be fine with the disappear at range thing, if it was increased so all of part 2 TOD was safe, so long as the disappearing on death part was removed.

[Riggs]

Terrible, terrible change.

Update 5 is shaping up to be .....nvmd.

[Rakelilly]

If this means the stupid flaming spheres in Necropolis stop needing to be run-away from for 5 minutes after the caster is dead, I'm super happy. :)

[rest]

If this means the stupid flaming spheres in Necropolis stop needing to be run-away from for 5 minutes after the caster is dead, I'm super happy. :)

People take damage from those?! :confused:

[Dcurd]

If this means the stupid flaming spheres in Necropolis stop needing to be run-away from for 5 minutes after the caster is dead, I'm super happy. :)

Oh god yes. Especially because for some reaon my wizard hirelings love to try and nuke the flaming spheres for some incomprehensible reason.



Droppings tons of ae then dieing or ddoring away to let the aes kill the mobs was an easy button. I thought the vets abhored adding easy buttons. Having to stay alive sounds like more of a challenge in managing your spell use. More challenge and forethought needed = fun times.

[FauxSho]

Obscuring Mist
Fog Cloud
Stinking Cloud
Solid Fog
Cloudkill
Incendiary Cloud
Sleet Storm
Wall of Fire
Blade Barrier
Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Glitterdust
Hypnotic Pattern
Web
Mind Fog
Acid Fog

The spells I didn't test were the Globes of Invulnerability, as my Lamannia Wizard doesn't have them.

Excellent, thank you!

[Falco_Easts]

Its more for epic ****, where jumping and evading doesnt always work. Instead, I have seen others gather up a ton of mobs, throw down a dd, center a firewall on the dd, and then run up and take the ddoor when the mobs get in range of the firewall. At that point every mob stands around like a lemming waiting to die.

Heres an alternative, make mobs keep agro when dd's are used, and run to the dungeon entrance. If they bounce back, it probably wont be into a firewall.

Perfect solution, without messing with any other mechanics.

I would rather see the mobs follow the caster through the d/door. Would be funny as hell to hear the caster say over v/chat "OK, firewalls down and I'm clear thorugh the d/door. OH SH$T!!" as the mobs pour through after him.

[Wizard_Zero]

While suicide FW mission are needed every now and again when a party is surrounded at a shrine. I guess I can kind of understand this. At least no more sleet storm.

[Merlocke]

This currently includes Dimension Door. Submit your bug reports. ;)

glad to see they think these changes through.

[Matuse]

Dimension Door

Now there's a stupid change. The caster has to be the last one through the DDoor, or everyone else gets left behind?

THINK FIRST. IMPLEMENT SECOND.

[Thar]

Can someone please stop changing stuff and put out new content...

This along with the twf change is just starting to take the DnD out of this game...

PNP:
Player one - i cast a wall of ice
party - awesome! we are safe from the horde of spiders trying to eat us.
DM - roll save... you die from spider poison. you wall disappears.
party - WHAT?!?

how would you view your DM... If it doesn't stay up in TOD part 2 then the range is too short.

[SteeleTrueheart]

This along with the twf change is just starting to take the DnD out of this game...



To be fair the twf change actually brings it closer to pnp... even if I don't like it.

I agree that the dice descriptions changing and the non persistance of spells (directly contrary to the rules) and the slowing down of combat is starting to make this game less Dungeons and Dragons Online and more Generic Timesink Fantasy Online.

Yes those initials were done on purpose. :)

[Rumbaar]

Yeah I don't like this change.

Once you've expended/paid your SP, your magic is in the world and should persist as long as it's been cast to do [without debuffs].

I like it if it just worked on enemies, of course, but for D&D this isn't right. Some magic is fire and forget.

[ieatogres]

This includes enemies as well as players. I've had plenty of sleet storms instantly shut off when I killed the caster.

Yeah! Another reason to kill the casters first:)

[Xeraphim]

Translation, does that mean it does not effect kiting in ToD at all?

Enlarge may be a mandatory ToD Feat now.

[Xeraphim]

Some magic is fire and forget.

Like Solid Fog in Haywire Foundry or an Acid Fog in the Jungle of Khyber...

I'd like that persistent magic to stay.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Once you've expended/paid your SP, your magic is in the world and should persist as long as it's been cast to do [without debuffs].


Alternatively they could have caster mobs more prevalent and to cast AOE dispel a bit more. This would probably mean people would be debuffed more though.

[DallasXXIII]

So how will this affect the caster who place lasting AOE spells on the portals in HoX and run the circle to help keep trash out of the center?

[RTN]

Effects should not disappear after death. This radically changes the game (imagine the new sp requirements for an elite raid or epic quest, where people do die and these things will need to be continually recast--is this another sneaky way to con us into to buying sp pots?).

Furthermore, the range should be greatly increased. Using spells in the Hound, for example, is all about tactics. We shouldn't be punished for this. Either that or put them on a timer (30 secs?). You could use the same mechanic as being out of range of a soul stone, but with a longer timer.

(btw, at current range, anyone who drops down AOE in the Reaver on the far side of the room and then returns to the door can kiss that stuff goodbye--not a big deal for experienced players since the quest is relatively easy now, but it further reduces the possible (smart) tactics in there)

Leaving behind webs, dancing balls, etc., can't be adding much lag or even much in the way of exploiting since this will eventually trigger Dungeon Alerts as you're not killing the mobs. There is no logical reason for this. If they're leaving them behind in combination with a FW, so what? This is smart and logical play that isn't exploiting the game.

I really dislike the way you're reducing possible tactics that are smart and not exploiting the game AI, etc. I understand when you redesign to take out tactics that are really thinly veiled exploits, but I think this is going a bit too far. It's like a choose your own adventure that has had all the choices removed. Yes, it can still be completed, but the fun of it is greatly reduced.

DD should be removed from the list. If it is going to remain, it needs to be put on a timer (30 secs?). This is often a group survival/wipe avoidance spell. If it disappears immediately after a caster goes through, this is unfair and ridiculous. It also makes the spell close to useless. Might as well remove it from the game.

[Lorz]

Actually, for fans of this change, to be consistent it should apply to buffs too.

That would be extra funny. Sorc goes down, every person in the party loses Blur, Displacement, Resists, Protections, Greater Heroism, Stoneskin, Jump and Haste. Everyone stands there, naked as jaybirds, with that goofy slack-jawed dumbfounded look, 30 feet in front of the armies of hell arrayed before them.

I'd pay to see that. It would almost make it worth it. Anyone in favor of this daffy change should also be in favor of this. After all, it is spells that that caster cast, so it must disappear on death, right?

I believe you missed a point....it is only persistent AoE. Not group spells that effect a small radius around caster but ones that are AoE persistent.

And no not everyone agrees with your "logic". I for one do not. This will probably balance in casters a little better.

I like how you and others scream when they try to balance game play throwing up rules to games this is NOT. Seems you think you make the rules.....reality is you do not.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I would rather see the mobs follow the caster through the d/door. Would be funny as hell to hear the caster say over v/chat "OK, firewalls down and I'm clear thorugh the d/door. OH SH$T!!" as the mobs pour through after him.

I saw Devils teleport after the party once....that was funny! Cruel...not fair....but funny, :D

[Visty]

I saw Devils teleport after the party once....that was funny! Cruel...not fair....but funny, :D

on a failed tod sally did that once...was funny at hell to have him stand at the entrance and whack those using the dd^^

[Quijonsith]

on a failed tod sally did that once...was funny at hell to have him stand at the entrance and whack those using the dd^^

I had a failed part 1 of ToD once where the jailer teleported to the entrance after we DDoor'd. that was interesting.

[arminius]

I believe you missed a point....it is only persistent AoE. Not group spells that effect a small radius around caster but ones that are AoE persistent.

And no not everyone agrees with your "logic". I for one do not. This will probably balance in casters a little better.

I like how you and others scream when they try to balance game play throwing up rules to games this is NOT. Seems you think you make the rules.....reality is you do not.

Please explain by what logic AOE effect spells disappear on the caster's death, but other spells cast by the same caster do not. None of either type of spells require the caster's continued attention.

If the magical substance that creates a barbarian's Resist Energy: Fire can persist after the caster's death, then the magical substance that creates Wall of Fire can too. Is the barbarian, what, STICKIER than the ground is, so he just holds onto that Resist Energy a little tighter?

Or what? Is non-AOE stronger, while AOE is weaker? Did one go to spell grad school while the other dropped out of spell kindergarten? Were the non-AOEs doing pilates while the AOEs were smoking and drinking beer on the back deck? Do the AOEs just not freakin try hard enough?

Come on, you're joking right? This makes absolutely 0 sense on any level, and can't be justified by anything except pure caprice on the part of the rulemaker.

[Seikojin]

It is not about making it like pnp or not. It is about reducing performance problems by removing things the servers have to track and monitor.

You know, perhaps they are getting a smaller server cluster soon and they will need any and all performance enhancements in place before the transfer.

The same reason why they made changes to twf is the same reason they are cutting off persistant aoes when the caster gets far or dies; increased performance.

[Deathseeker]

My opinion and proposed solution...

AOE disappearing upon distance is fine with me.
DDoor disappearing upon distance is lame.

AOE disappearing upon death isnt cool. I think it should only be tied to distance, whether it be the distance of you or your soulstone. As enemy mobs do not have soulstones, their's would disappear upon their death. Ours would disappear upon the soulstone leaving the area or recall, but not upon death by itself. That would fix the "firewall then ddoor" cheese, but would not affect the "suicide firewall" strategy.

[kaelis]

Approximately 170 in-game feet. If you have Very High Object Draw Distance, it will persist a little bit further than you can see your own persistent effects.
Thanks for that. Shouldn't affect many anymore.


This currently includes Dimension Door. Submit your bug reports. ;)

Ooooh the dev's lvoe me. Griefing to a whole new level. zerg gather up 50 mobs d door, and watch the party members die. Delicious griefing feature!

[sephiroth1084]

I really hope that this is just some weird bug that has cropped up, because otherwise I'm getting really ****ing tired of the devs sneaking in **** like this on top of all of the other **** they are cramming up our asses!

The game used to be about options and alternative strategies, but apparently these sorts of things don't sit well with the devs, so we get perches removed, new doors installed, dungeon alert, this **** with spells disappearing...

At the very least, spell effects should not end upon caster death. Yeah, getting rid of Sleet Storm swiftly would be nice, but not worth the cost on our end. Epic DQ 2, crit firewall on queen, get tagged by something nasty, die, no more firewall? ********! This ****ing better not see live!

[knightgf]

I find the current range system fine the way it is. This system is game-breaking since a lot of spells still work beyond 200+Ft of range, and not to mention since there are no spells that require you to concentrate for the ENTIRE duration of the spell, its pointless.

Take it out of beta and never put it back in. And don't even think about touching live with this update.

[Kalari]

I remember the first time Kalari went out to the orchard and ran into the named beholder. It was a tough battle I threw many a spell barely scratching him and he ate the heck out of my silver flame amulet. I finally thought okay im desperate hes going to kill me throw a firewall. It started eating away at him but he got off his disintegrate right as I died he got hit with the last tick and perished. I had to get a friend to come and raise me but it was one of the best fights I had. Im going to miss stuff like that though I can see the positive of having enemy casters aoe spells disappearing to. guess were going to have to get used to these changes and decide if they are worth it.

[kaelis]

I find the current range system fine the way it is. This system is game-breaking since a lot of spells still work beyond 200+Ft of range, and not to mention since there are no spells that require you to concentrate for the ENTIRE duration of the spell, its pointless.

Take it out of beta and never put it back in. And don't even think about touching live with this update.

Concentrate spells are some of the worst parts of other MMO's please don't give the dev's ideas.

[r3dl4nce]

Ooooh the dev's lvoe me. Griefing to a whole new level. zerg gather up 50 mobs d door, and watch the party members die. Delicious griefing feature!

I was thinking the exact same thing ! there will be a new frontier in pug mass killing !

[Irinis]

I was thinking the exact same thing ! there will be a new frontier in pug mass killing !

Wow, who thought this one up? I really hope it's just a bug because it's beyond ridiculous.

[Therilith]

The game used to be about options and alternative strategies, but apparently these sorts of things don't sit well with the devs, so we get perches removed, new doors installed, dungeon alert, this **** with spells disappearing...

Exploiting the mobs masochistic AI is not an "alternative strategy".

That said, I would prefer if such things were fixed on a case-by-case basis instead of what they seem to have planned on Llama.

[timewalker]

i just got one comment

VOD explodie bats + this ungodly stupid change = MAGA FAIL!!!

i wonder what else they are sneaking into to this nurfdate.....a nurf to the drop rates of mnemonic pots, because really what do you need those to come from quests for...thats what the store is for. :(

[Vhlad]

bwahahaha

Add more spice to dungeon alert griefing with new and improved ddoor griefing! Round up as many mobs as you can via AoE and ddoor out of there. You poof, the AoE will poof, the ddoor will poof, and the rest of the party will get to play with your mess. Score extra points if you do it after swiping an epic scroll off the ground.

In seriousness, I feel terribly bad for low hp arcanes in places like epic DQ, where they're expected to spam firewalls on the queen as she moves from island to island until they get a crit. Previously, even with a con dumped caster lacking blade dodging twitch skills, they could throw a few FW off and contribute a little before dying. Now those FW will just poof. No mercy for the 1-2 open arcane spots in that raid. Better buy a LR from the store to fix the 8-12 con character Turbine gave you using the class paths.

PS. Do ice floats in the abbot poof if the caster dies?

[DarkAlchemist]

Well, they have now effected every class I play and all of them in varying degrees of negative.

I still have not fully logged in since the downgrade fiasco and with every change they are doing to me I am at a point that I am not caring about DDO any longer. Lotro can suck my feet as I kick it to the curve cause they aren't driving me over to it for sure.

Not one bit happy but as the downgrade fiasco mop up proved to me Turbine doesn't give one darn about any of us anyway.

[Phidius]

Too bad buffs aren't treated the same... like Haste...

[sephiroth1084]

Exploiting the mobs masochistic AI is not an "alternative strategy".


I agree, but with the caveat that if the devs are going to remove things like that, they should replace them with real, planned alternatives...different routes, different paths to victory, etc... It seems like this is the case with some dungeons, but strikes me as occurring less and less frequently. It's part of the reason that DPS has become almost the only relevant stat: if the only way for us to succeed in a quest is by killing things, then every other ability/skill is of less importance.

[Alintalkin]

It is clear why this is happening...
Boccob (I believe that is the 3.5 edition god of magic) has been Slain!
A new God has taken his place, and they have nefarious designs.
They need our life energy for a plot of dastardly proportions! That is why AoE fails when caster is away.
Targeted spells feed on the life force of the being it was cast on!
AoE feeds on the casters life force! It all makes sense!
If the caster leaves the area the spell would be it can no longer feed off them and therefore will go out.
If the caster dies there is no more life force to feed on.
I know! we shall gather our heroes from throughout the land to battle this vile god and make magic what it once was!
(Man if this change actually was an opening to a raid of that degree of awesomeness, with the final boss a god, I might almost forgive them ;) )

(btw as I have sadly :( not played D&D due to lack of interest of anyone else I know, I have no clue if that type of thing would even work in the realm of the possible).

Edit:Might as well be serious.
this will cause a lot of DDoor griefing as the caster could pull large mobs amounts to group, cast DDoor and jump through it leaving people stranded and them laughing. Also there was some valiant last stands and sacrifices players used to make that could cause death but at least resulted in foe dying that will no longer happen anymore :( . Also kiting tactics take a major hit at some points.

[DarkAlchemist]

...Edit:Might as well be serious.
this will cause a lot of DDoor griefing as the caster could pull large mobs amounts to group, cast DDoor and jump through it leaving people stranded and them laughing. Also there was some valiant last stands and sacrifices players used to make that could cause death but at least resulted in foe dying that will no longer happen anymore :( . Also kiting tactics take a major hit at some points.
OMG, you are right and I never thought of that. Now when I ddoor I wait for everyone to leave through it but when I first started I didn't. Now I expect the griefers to get us all.

edit: Of course the griefer will not have a good name for long but that never stopped a griefer before.

[sephiroth1084]

OMG, you are right and I never thought of that. Now when I ddoor I wait for everyone to leave through it but when I first started I didn't. Now I expect the griefers to get us all.

edit: Of course the griefer will not have a good name for long but that never stopped a griefer before.
I almost want to load up Lama just for this! It's not griefing if people are laughing about it.

Like hitting someone with Kormor's and making them dance in a Shroud 3 hallway with blades whipping by. :D

[Clay]

There is no lag in DDO... must be your ISP.

lmao

someone gave me neg rep for this!

ahh... some people. :rolleyes:

[Creeper]

As much as I hate things like Sleet Storm...this doesn't feel right...I guess primarily because of the distinction in PnP between spells that require Concentration and those that are set-it-and-forget-it. The magic energy has been released, it should be allowed to run its course.

Bingo! This won't effect me much as far as I can tell, but it makes no sense, as far as lore and role playing, for lingering spells to go away upon death.

[Creeper]

This SHOULD make Death Pact useless. Cause when the caster dies.... I'm just sayin'...

Will Divine Intervention also go away when the Cleric dies?

[oweieie]

Yeah, enlarge became even less useful than it already was. Maybe they'll change it to actually enlarge spells instead of increase the range.

[Trillea]

Yeah, enlarge became even less useful than it already was. Maybe they'll change it to actually enlarge spells instead of increase the range.

That is actually a seperate metamagic feat - widen spell.

[knightgf]

That is actually a seperate metamagic feat - widen spell.

Quite a name for a metamagic spell...why not rename it to "Fatten" spell instead? Thats sure to take up both more mana and more space...

[LordArkan]

Quite a name for a metamagic spell...why not rename it to "Fatten" spell instead? Thats sure to take up both more mana and more space...

We went with "Embiggen" in our groups.

[MrWizard]

so killing an enemy caster will get rid of all their spells...immediately? this is great