Monk:Warforged vs Halfling?

[ArchStriker]

Hi, well i got about 1400 ddo points to spend...i already have a monk but i want a really tough monk, something that can hit a lot of damage. I was thinking about going warforged monk. Or a 32 point build for a halfling monk. I was wondering what is better in terms of Str/Dex builds????

[Jakarr]

Both have there strong points....

WF have ALOT of Immunity's some are dupes of what the monk gets but some arn't like immunity to energy drain which I find is my most fav immunity. WF also get +3 extra damage from power attack enhancements.

Halflings get the extra sneak attack damage from the racial enhancements. Couple more ac

The Stats are mute, Str/Con Based(which kinda sounds like ya want) a WF will pull out better stats, ok -2 to wisdom but really most builds wont have over a 14 wisdom to start.

More of a AC build w/Dex a Halfling will pull through will better stats.

The -% to healing a wf gets is nothing later on with the wf enhancements and monk enhancements so its not a issue.

Overall I never play fleshlings anymore so my opinion is biased, but for what you were sayin a WF would do it. Better Con, Little more str due to -2 from halflings, Immunes. Some really nice Docents like the Docent of defiance which gives ya 20DR(procs it).

Overall WF>halfing but by only a small margin imo but both races bring a diff playstyle

[Hellllboy]

Hi, well i got about 1400 ddo points to spend...i already have a monk but i want a really tough monk, something that can hit a lot of damage. I was thinking about going warforged monk. Or a 32 point build for a halfling monk. I was wondering what is better in terms of Str/Dex builds????

A 32 point halfling monk would be far superior to a 28 point WF monk-just based on stat distribution.

Even comming from a WF fan, the halfling is a better choice, hands down. Most of the benefits a WF gain, overlap the Monk.

[Axelza]

I was in the same situation as yourself , I unlocked monk as I love the whole monk class. And I made human , halfling , dwalf ... all seem to not be my playstyle , then I decided to gain lots of points to get WF and since then I totaly loved it , nice powerattack bonus , more HP (always good) and the immunities are danm usefull.

for someone who hates the sneak style of playing I decided to make a acrobat monk with a staff , he always has the highest kill count , and very good boss dps , and I can do flips on demand to please the group ! everyones happy !

[Cack]

Str build = Wf
Dex build = Halfling

Both have comparable dps, WF can generally pull off more ki strikes in sun 4 for more ki type dps. halfling have the SA enhancements and can do similair dps in wind 4 if they don't have aggro.

Halfling end up with more to hit for epic content, they also get more ac for anything under epic content and more incoming healing %'s.

WF get more hp + immunities + other little perks (docent of defiance), easier access to all stances without tr'ing etc.

I have played both, currently using the wf str version, but I think that the halfling thus far is coming out a little ahead in playability, I may reinc back to halfling later for the 4th tr.

Side note: With weighted hw's getting a nice boost for stunning blow now, wf can get a better dc for a stun then a halfling aswell. the 2x stuns will help quite a bit, especailly if you can get up to that 40+ str range and a reasonable dc for it.

[oweieie]

The main reason to go one of those two races is because they get the damage bonus. So do you prefer the warforged damage bonus which lowers your too hit, but only costs you 6 points for +3 damage, or the halflings which is 12 points for +6 damage +3 to hit (you can go +8/+4 but at 8 extra points it isn't worth it) that only works when sneak works. I think the halfling edges out wf for damage, but really it's not that big of a difference and your DPS is going to blow until you get to 20 and get your ToD rings anyway.

[Atoro87]

I've got a 15 finesse halfling and a 7 WF str build, both are dark path. I honestly like my WF better already.

He hits/crits harder, has room for another feat since I dropped finesse, and is a little more versatile in terms of DPS since I basically used int wis and char as dumps and jacked up my str dex and con. I could take all three stance, mountain flame and wind, but I'm honestly thinking about dropping wind, especially given the potential changes that are propsed for TWF and wind stance.

Don't get me wrong I like my finesse midget, but his main roll isn't killing, it's proc-ing weapon effects through sheer probability. I hit so fast that I force mobs to make alot of saves, and sooner or later they're bound to fail one. He's basically a close range debuffer with the added bonus of touch of death atm.

My str build will be able to charge ToD faster, a la flame stance, and even take main tanking duties since he has better AC than most melees, comparable HP, and better DR, not to mention WF brute fighting and the always lovely ToD to grab aggro.

From what you've said Opif you can get WF and 32 pt access that may very well be most satisfying. If not I'm gonna stir the pot and say grab 32 pt and roll a Dwarf monk, they're ugly as sin but IMO they're a poor man's WF.

[byzantinebob]

32 point builds are more important to a monk than the race. You need the stats. If you want to go full STR monk, you can go 32 point dwarf and come out nicely. Most of WF Immunities you get as a monk anyways.

[Skull_49]

even if you max out str you will still need a base of 18dex or base +tome=18 for wind4. Wind4 is the most dps out of all the stances.

[Atoro87]

even if you max out str you will still need a base of 18dex or base +tome=18 for wind4. Wind4 is the most dps out of all the stances.

I dunno if that's totally accurate. Wind 4 lets you hit faster, but with big boy hastes being tossed out reliably in upper level content Earth 4 with jidz-tet'a (sp) to push up the hit die or Flame 4 for more str and quicker ouput of touch of death via quicker ki generation. IMO Wind stance, in all it's incarnations, shines in forcing mobs to make more saves on weapon effects. 2 windstancers alone in vale with paralyzers can handle just about any mob they come across, haste-ed however you'd be just ever so slightly faster than anybody else.

I'm specced to take wind 4 atm but with the potential changes to attack speeds for the wind line I've dropped it in favor of flame, which boosts my to-hit and over all damage output. Originally I did it just expiramentally, now I kinda like it.

[xanvar]

A 32 point halfling monk would be far superior to a 28 point WF monk-just based on stat distribution.

Even comming from a WF fan, the halfling is a better choice, hands down. Most of the benefits a WF gain, overlap the Monk.

Why did you go with a 32 point halfling build vs a 28 point WF?

[wolfy42]

I was never a fan of finesse based monk builds (at least after the early levels) since I found the strength based builds so much more effective, especially solo. You can use unbalancing strike though to get sneak attack damage even when solo or when monsters are focused on you, but that damage only works on monsters vulnerable to sneak attack damage. Many throughout the game are immune or have fortitude that reduces the chance of causing sneak attack damage.

Honestly the damage difference between a dex based monk and a strength based monk isn't that huge as long as you get at least a 13 base strength for power attack. Going with halfling with a starting 12 (or 13) strength means you can get PA with just a +1 strength tome......and that reduces the difference in damage even at lower levels to just a few points per hit.


At level 4 starting out a strength based vs a dex based, with 18 starting dex as a halfling and 13 strength vs an 18 starting strength as a WF and 14 dex ends up with the following differences.


Halfling gets 1d8 base damage + 3 from wraps (if just plain +3 wraps), + 4 from PA, + 4 from strength (with a +1 tome to strength) = 12-19 damage per hit

WF gets 1d8 base + 3 from wraps + 5 from PA, + 7 from strength (18 base + 1 from lvl 4, +1 from tome, +4 from bulls)= 16-23 damage.

So halfling without sneak attack damage hits for an average of 15.5 damage and WF hits for an average of 19.5 damage.

Halfling guile can potentially boost that by 2 but even then the WF comes out ahead a significant amount.

Of course having elemental effects such as holy handwraps (or even the starting flaming handwraps) boosts both builds damage equally. In addition your AB will be higher as the halfling build (hitting 20+% of the time more even when not flanking).

A big difference between the builds is AC and Reflex saves though. The halfling build gets better reflex saves (by about 5 points eventually which is 25% greater chance to avoid all damage) and gains a significant ac advantage (1 racial, 2 starting dex, 3 level up dex, 1 racial dex enhancement, 1 wisdom advantage over WF= 8 more AC). That is a 40% smaller chance to be hit.

WF though get light fort naturally and only need medium fort to reach 100%...which is a big advantage in the early levels.

Both are viable but here is my suggestion.

If your going to multiclass your monk with some other class that either adds damage per hit (ranger from ram's might and favored enemies, rogue with sneak attack damage) or gets additional uses out of dex (arcane archer builds) then go the dex route.

For a pure monk the strength build ends up being better. You'll still get your reflex saves up quite high and you can compensate for the lower AC with docents (DoD late game for example and +5 docent early game which is 3 more AC then a non-WF monk can get from bracers etc at that point).

A WF monk is going to still want to hit an 18 dex end game probably though, so the above numbers may be off a bit (starting with a 16 strength instead of 18). The WF monk can get 3 tier 4 stances easily though (starting stats of 16 strength, dex, con).

Wisdom can be a dump stat for the WF monk as there is no AC penalty for a lower then 10 wisdom.

Stats like this for a 32 point WF (btw if you have 32 point halflings you have 32 point WF).

Str 16 (10)
dex 16 (10)
Con 16 (06)
Int 08 (00)
Wis 12 (06)
Cha 06 (00)

Are what I would recommend. You can sacrifice wisdom starting with a 6 in order to snag 18 starting strength, but honestly the +1 to hit and damage isn't going to be worth loosing 3 will saves and even AC.

This build would have only 3 starting strength points over a halfling, with +1 at level 4....so a total advantage of 2 damage over a halfling at level 4 (without factoring in the bonus from power attack enhancement which boosts it 1 more to 3).

WF also have the advantage of being able to use a Qstaff at early levels until you at least get ITWF. Generally damage is higher with a Qstaff especially with the pumped up power attack and it also hits through DR better at least at lower levels. Later on your H2H base damage increases and you bypass some types of DR along with having more attacks from TWF and better elemental boosts etc, but initially Qstaff can be a better way to go.

WF monk with Qstaff at level 4 is primed and ready to go with the following:

Base 16 strength + 1 from level + 1 from tome + 4 from bulls strength = 22 (+9 dam)
PA 4 base + 1 enhancement doubled for 2handed = +10 damage

Just a plain +3 Qstaff then gives:


1d6 + 22 damage in wind stance or 23-28 damage a pop. Base average damage of 26 per hit.

That is almost double the dex based halflings per hit damage at the same level (15 vs 26). Even with 50% double hits with H2H pumping average damage per attack up to 22 the Qstaff strength build comes out ahead and that is before factoring in DR of any type.

Meanwhile the AC on the WF monk is still quite boostable early on. You won't be reaching 40+ AC's easily like the dex based build, but you can still reach a 30+ which is sufficient for early quests. When AC starts going down, it goes down fast (unless you work hard at it) and the WF monk is actually able to boost it in some ways easier.


WF monk ac at level 4:

10 base
5 armor AC with +3 docent
dex 16 + 1 tome + 1 racial + 4 cats = 6
Wis 12 + 1 tome + 1 enhancement + 4 owls = 4
Monk bonus +2
Wind stance +1
Protect ring +1
= base 29 ac all the time

+3 from bark skin
+1 from SoF clickie/potions

= 33 AC easily solo at lvl 4....34 if you snag dodge

A WF monk can start with:

Lvl 1 PA, THF
lvl 2 Dodge
LVl 3 toughness

By level 4 you'll have +1 con enhancement (with a +1 tome an 18 base con), toughness and racial toughness for decent hp. PA and THF for decent single target target damage (fairly nice glancing blows as well) and an easily attainable 34 ac.

Main problem is it's far more difficulty to get a docent of invulnerability then robes of the same, although at least they are now available:) The loss of early DR is the biggest disadvantage of the WF monk over the halfling in my opinion.
+

[Hasteclicky]

I'm guessing he currently has 28 point builds and is wondering if he should buy either warforged or 32 point access.

[hu-flung-pu]

32 point builds if your building a monk.

No other class is as dependant on stats as the monk. Maybe the paladin as well.

[CrosisBlackwing]

Why does the Halfling Build have to be Dex Based?
Go with the 32 Point Halfling, and Put all level ups into Str...

Build looks like

Str: 14(10)
Dex: 16(6)
Con: 16(10)
Int: 8(0)
Wis: 14(6)
Cha: 8(0)

All Level ups into Str. You can dump wisdom for Full Str, or stay more balanced.

Comparably, This build loses +4 to Damage, and gains +2 To Hit, (+6 while lacking aggro) and +8 Damage (Sneak Enhances), loses +40 Hps (Tier IV Toughness and Con I and II. But gains higher %Healing Amp.

Notes: +2 Con Tome Gives Earth IV stance, +2 Dex Tome Gives Wind IV stance

[MagsonDare]

Eurytos posted some interesting builds for both halflings and WF here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=242643

I'm trying out the "Grand Master of Mountains" build with a WF right now and it's rocking it pretty good in my guild groups. Solo I put out a lot of dps also, but takes a lot of damage in return so far. Only level 5 becuz I don't play it all that often, but I still love it.