All Epics as Raids

[Samadhi]

Just a thought, but even if the initial dungeon is designed around a 6 person instance, why not make all future epic versions of quests function for raid groups?

People like raids for reasons other than loot, otherwise Tempest Spine would have never been such a success. It is inherent that sometimes it is fun to run in larger groups. So why not have all new epic quests all scaled to be 12 person instances? Seems like a cool implementation to me - and maybe would be something to help motivate those like myself that still think epic is a ******** addition to the game to give it a try.

[ColinQ]

Just a thought, but even if the initial dungeon is designed around a 6 person instance, why not make all future epic versions of quests function for raid groups?

People like raids for reasons other than loot, otherwise Tempest Spine would have never been such a success. It is inherent that sometimes it is fun to run in larger groups. So why not have all new epic quests all scaled to be 12 person instances? Seems like a cool implementation to me - and maybe would be something to help motivate those like myself that still think epic is a ******** addition to the game to give it a try.

I think the first throught come to my mind is someone solo epic WK and now wait for 11 other people to grab chest/token

3day timer would suck for those epic token grind

[kaelis]

so what.. square the number of hp and damage the mobs currently do, and add a 5th difficulty to future epic quests called epic raid, or extreme epic?


Meh. Why not someone might get some fun out of it.

[Nezichiend]

I think the first throught come to my mind is someone solo epic WK and now wait for 11 other people to grab chest/token

3day timer would suck for those epic token grind

Someone also solo'd epic dq2.

[Angelus_dead]

People like raids for reasons other than loot, otherwise Tempest Spine would have never been such a success.
What does that mean?

Tempest Spine's popularity was derived from it being a large impressive-looking dungeon/landscape with many top-level chests and the biggest boss in the game. Being a raid did not contribute to those advantages, and actually detracted somewhat.

[ColinQ]

Someone also solo'd epic dq2.
then I'm expected to chip in on the pots/scarb usage.
and I'm too cheap for that

[Samadhi]

What does that mean?

Tempest Spine's popularity was derived from it being a large impressive-looking dungeon/landscape with many top-level chests and the biggest boss in the game. Being a raid did not contribute to those advantages, and actually detracted somewhat.

Any quest can be given good loot and a good end fight. Personally TS was never one of my favorite landscape, but that is just my opinion.

I think part of TS's success was no flagging mechanism. This made it easy to just through together a group to run it. This would obviously be true of any typical quest as well.

I also think that the raid aspect was definitely a plus, and not a detraction. It is very common for me to have more than 5 friends online during primetime. If I want to run with all of my friends, this requires us to run raids for us to all group together. Unfortunately, this brings available quests instantly from over 100 down to under 10. Hence the extreme repetition of running the same couple quests over and over again. I am not a grind oriented player; but have somewhat become one because I want to run with as many of my friends as possible, and that means raiding. Having new epic dungeons all function based upon a 12 person instance would give many more options for quests we can run in larger groups.

Additionally, epic dungeons were intended to function as additional content for end game players. Personally, I have never found any entertainment in epic dungeons. Other than VoN6 and DQ, I have ran epic dungeons right around 6 times total across the board. I have had a couple different thoughts as to why I dislike them and ways to make it so that either myself or others like me might run them more, of which this is just one that is not by any means a bandaid for the entire situation, but it is something that might spark more interest namely because of the reasons listed in the above paragraph.

Perhaps most compelling, though, is that just like current epics, there would be very little developmental cost comparatively to do this. I would certainly prefer more new raids, don't get me wrong, but again this could be another option in the meantime.

[Hendrik]

Epic dungeons are not easy enough as is we need to bring 6 more????

:eek:

nty

[Samadhi]

Epic dungeons are not easy enough as is we need to bring 6 more????

:eek:

nty

You are right, it is completely impossible to scale a new dungeon to be appropriate to 12 players....

/fail.

[sirgog]

Any quest can be given good loot and a good end fight. Personally TS was never one of my favorite landscape, but that is just my opinion.

I think part of TS's success was no flagging mechanism. This made it easy to just through together a group to run it. This would obviously be true of any typical quest as well.

I also think that the raid aspect was definitely a plus, and not a detraction. It is very common for me to have more than 5 friends online during primetime. If I want to run with all of my friends, this requires us to run raids for us to all group together. Unfortunately, this brings available quests instantly from over 100 down to under 10. Hence the extreme repetition of running the same couple quests over and over again. I am not a grind oriented player; but have somewhat become one because I want to run with as many of my friends as possible, and that means raiding. Having new epic dungeons all function based upon a 12 person instance would give many more options for quests we can run in larger groups.

Additionally, epic dungeons were intended to function as additional content for end game players. Personally, I have never found any entertainment in epic dungeons. Other than VoN6 and DQ, I have ran epic dungeons right around 6 times total across the board. I have had a couple different thoughts as to why I dislike them and ways to make it so that either myself or others like me might run them more, of which this is just one that is not by any means a bandaid for the entire situation, but it is something that might spark more interest namely because of the reasons listed in the above paragraph.

Perhaps most compelling, though, is that just like current epics, there would be very little developmental cost comparatively to do this. I would certainly prefer more new raids, don't get me wrong, but again this could be another option in the meantime.

Don't respond to the troll, he posts a longer version of 'Raids are bad game design' on every single thread where someone expresses the popular opinion that they like raids. It was an interesting read the first seventeen times.

Back on topic.

I'd be interested to see this tried. Allowing 12 players into Epic Dungeons would allow the Devs to scale certain things (most notably monster AC) assuming a perfectly balanced party (in practice, this means that they can assume every group has a Bard, an assumption that isn't safe with 6 person Epics). Plus, they could make more use of effects that really knock individual players out of action for a while (by killing or otherwise neutralizing them). Having two players fail Disintegrate saves in a 6-person Epic might be game over for the run, and so the spell is only given to select bosses - raid parties can recover from that, however, as they can from having melees hit with Mordankaienen's Disjunction.

[Samadhi]

I'd be interested to see this tried. Allowing 12 players into Epic Dungeons would allow the Devs to scale certain things (most notably monster AC) assuming a perfectly balanced party (in practice, this means that they can assume every group has a Bard, an assumption that isn't safe with 6 person Epics). Plus, they could make more use of effects that really knock individual players out of action for a while (by killing or otherwise neutralizing them). Having two players fail Disintegrate saves in a 6-person Epic might be game over for the run, and so the spell is only given to select bosses - raid parties can recover from that, however, as they can from having melees hit with Mordankaienen's Disjunction.

That's a really good point. I have frequently been a fan of trying to make the mobs we fight more offensive and less just HP sink. This would make it easier to work such a thing in as you said.

[sirgog]

I should clarify one thing from my last post tho - I'm not opposed to situations where players with a solid party and a solid plan that's flawlessly executed wipe because they get terribly unlucky with the dice.

Horoth can do this to a group without a light monk (sometimes he just kills a tank by going Blasphemy stun on the Cleric, then Disintegrate on the tank (who rolls a 1), then a couple melee hits, tank dies, then Horoth puts Badges on three different people and Disintegrates a squishy). This possibility is low, and a top-notch group can recover from this scenario, but the potential for it is, IMO, a good thing.

[Samadhi]

Just a thought, but even if the initial dungeon is designed around a 6 person instance, why not make all future epic versions of quests function for raid groups?

People like raids for reasons other than loot, otherwise Tempest Spine would have never been such a success. It is inherent that sometimes it is fun to run in larger groups. So why not have all new epic quests all scaled to be 12 person instances? Seems like a cool implementation to me - and maybe would be something to help motivate those like myself that still think epic is a ******** addition to the game to give it a try.

Neg rep for making a suggestion? Good thing I keep my stuff disabled :D