Monks Read This Important

[countesscrow]

The Proposed Changes to Two Weapon Fighting!

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248



Chaotics

[Sarnind]

this is ridiculous!

[DaggomaticDwarf]

Just hit lvl 15 on my TR'd halfling Monk and now with these changes I am seriously considering shelving him til all this is done and forgotten. I just goes to show you that the Dev team don't think about what may happen down the line when something is introduced into the game. It's like all negative side effects are an after thought.

[oweieie]

Wow, monks being singled out. Thats something noobs do a lot, not something you'd think a dev would do because guess what, monks aren't the fastest attackers. Rogues and Fighters both get 30% attack speed boosts which put them WAY ahead of monks much of the time. So, why would he single out monks?

As for their optimization, a monk strikes a little over 4 attacks per second typically. The number of floating point operations, even unoptimized and in 3 dimensions to calculate if the two objects are in range for the strike to land can be counted on one hand. 10 monks is less than 100 operations per second. Know how many FLOPS your standard modern desktop computer does? About 40 GFLOPS, thats 40,000,000,000 FLOPS. So by their "optimization" they're saving... get this... about 0.0000000001% of the processor's speed. So that will fix 0.0000000001% of of the lag. But lets be real, there aren't 10 monks per system, lets say there are 10,000 monks on the same system, then that will fix 0.0000001% of the lag instead!

I fail to see how they can think any sort of improvement will be made this way when it should be obvious to anyone with with even high school math let alone a dev that this just is not the problem. But then these are the guys that can't even run an off the shelf memory leak detection program to fix the major cause of people crashing these last several months. Not that they should even need a program since since they already know exactly where the leak occurs as it's been pointed out to them on the forums for months. If you doubt me, then just think on this, multi-player Quake, running on home PC servers 14 years old now over dial-up modems had no problems handling super nail guns. Yeah.

[Oolung]

Wow, monks being singled out. Thats something noobs do a lot, not something you'd think a dev would do because guess what, monks aren't the fastest attackers. Rogues and Fighters both get 30% attack speed boosts which put them WAY ahead of monks much of the time. So, why would he single out monks?

As for their optimization, a monk strikes a little over 4 attacks per second typically. The number of floating point operations, even unoptimized and in 3 dimensions to calculate if the two objects are in range for the strike to land can be counted on one hand. 10 monks is less than 100 operations per second. Know how many FLOPS your standard modern desktop computer does? About 40 GFLOPS, thats 40,000,000,000 FLOPS. So by their "optimization" they're saving... get this... about 0.0000000001% of the processor's speed. So that will fix 0.0000000001% of of the lag. But lets be real, there aren't 10 monks per system, lets say there are 10,000 monks on the same system, then that will fix 0.0000001% of the lag instead!

I fail to see how they can think any sort of improvement will be made this way when it should be obvious to anyone with with even high school math let alone a dev that this just is not the problem. But then these are the guys that can't even run an off the shelf memory leak detection program to fix the major cause of people crashing these last several months. Not that they should even need a program since since they already know exactly where the leak occurs as it's been pointed out to them on the forums for months. If you doubt me, then just think on this, multi-player Quake, running on home PC servers 14 years old now over dial-up modems had no problems handling super nail guns. Yeah.

Monks get a speed boost from wind stance, and a boost from base monk, which is more than 30% when totaled iirc

EDIT: especcially with the base +12% attack speed that they get if not using any weapons

[Loromir]

just goes to show you that the Dev team don't think about what may happen down the line when something is introduced into the game. It's like all negative side effects are an after thought.


This is why they are giving us a heads up and asking for opinions and input. It is not a done deal.


They actuallly are thinking it through instead of just implementing it.

I'm sure this thread will be closed pretty soon, as it should be.

[oweieie]

Monks get a speed boost from wind stance, and a boost from base monk, which is more than 30% when totaled iirc

Wind stance at level 18 gives 10% + 15%, however the 15% doesn't stack with haste/madstone etc. In effect monks are getting 10%... which is pretty much what fighters get on capstone, rangers get at level 6 etc. So the only advantage in speed a monk gets is the unarmed speed bonus, which is not 30%. For things like bosses where lag is the worst fighters and rogues will be freely using their haste boost and attacking significantly faster than monks.

[Lorz]

Wow, monks being singled out. Thats something noobs do a lot, not something you'd think a dev would do because guess what, monks aren't the fastest attackers. Rogues and Fighters both get 30% attack speed boosts which put them WAY ahead of monks much of the time. So, why would he single out monks?

As for their optimization, a monk strikes a little over 4 attacks per second typically. The number of floating point operations, even unoptimized and in 3 dimensions to calculate if the two objects are in range for the strike to land can be counted on one hand. 10 monks is less than 100 operations per second. Know how many FLOPS your standard modern desktop computer does? About 40 GFLOPS, thats 40,000,000,000 FLOPS. So by their "optimization" they're saving... get this... about 0.0000000001% of the processor's speed. So that will fix 0.0000000001% of of the lag. But lets be real, there aren't 10 monks per system, lets say there are 10,000 monks on the same system, then that will fix 0.0000001% of the lag instead!

I fail to see how they can think any sort of improvement will be made this way when it should be obvious to anyone with with even high school math let alone a dev that this just is not the problem. But then these are the guys that can't even run an off the shelf memory leak detection program to fix the major cause of people crashing these last several months. Not that they should even need a program since since they already know exactly where the leak occurs as it's been pointed out to them on the forums for months. If you doubt me, then just think on this, multi-player Quake, running on home PC servers 14 years old now over dial-up modems had no problems handling super nail guns. Yeah.

And thanks for making a comparison to a much simpler system. This just shows you do not grasp the size of the problem. Even if you had 16 or 64 people on that little quake server it is not even in the realm of reason to compare to his size game with a heck of a lot more going on than a few shoot'em ups.

Obviously you think that this is a High school level problem....but im sorry...you are not informed.

Also look above...see that you are not correct when you say monks are not too fast....It might shock you but i suspect that if you knew 1/10th of what Turbine does about what the problems are you would not be so quick to judge. This also shows me you know little about actually going out and making things happen in the Real world. I run a manufacturing plant and have learned the lesson well...it always looks easier than it is, and it is always easier to say how it should be done then to make it a reality.

Now...one last time...things change...deal...that is all...it will be ok.

[Tolero]

Please keep discussion on the topic in the main thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248) if you want your feedback heard. Thanks!