Party Make-Up

[gurslak]

Hi All,

I've recently started this game and joined a guild of friends who I was guilded with in other MMO's and know in rl, now I had a look through the guild list and we have no obvious tanks. There are a few paladins, a bunch of clerics and a smattering of casters, but no fighters or barbarians.

Is this going to prove a problem?

I understand that DDO is supposed to be playable whatever the party composition and that tanks are different from tanks in other MMO's, can the guild survive dungeon runs without a Fighter or Barbarian? I'm currently trying out cleric, fighter and sorcerer classes and have yet to make a decision on which one to focus on, if we will need a fighter or barbarian in later dungeons en that may just make the choice easier!

Edit: I realise Paladins can tank, so make tank/melee dps inter changeable :)

[thwart]

If you are worried about party make-up shouldn't your guild have a rouge?


Thank you ... I'll be here all week, try the veal!

[GhoulsTouch]

A guild without a rogue lol, now that's funny.

[Eladiun]

If you are worried about party make-up shouldn't your guild have a rouge?



Why do they need color on their cheeks? Are they taking a photo? Working in Television?

[KingOfCheese]

At the lower levels, tanks aren't needed (although it can make life easier). Anyone that can swing a weapon can carry you through the lower levels.

At the mid levels, the casters and clerics can carry the day--although you may find some difficulty in the level 8-12 range.

Big hitting melee types become most important on high level raids. The bosses have 1 gazillion hps. The resources to kill them using spells is too high for routine raiding. The resources used to keep the party alive where there is weak melee damage is too high for routine raiding. The best way to beat the raid bosses is to have big hitters beat on them. That's where you'll notice a deficit the most.

All that being said, two decent hitters will carry you fine up to the high level raids--say a paladin and a rogue--more than sufficient.

[FuzzyDuck81]

A "classic" tank isnt essential, but can certainly make life easier in a lot of situations - there are some good tank builds on the fighter forums that can deal good melee damage & still turtle up & take a beating when needed too. However, pretty much any setup can work so long as you work together, even all the same class - for example, ranged characters are seen as weaker than most melee at high levels, and with only a single ranged character in a party that may be true.. but with multiple ones working together & coordinating well, you have some serious firepower on your hands for taking out the bulk of an enemy force before they become a threat.

Since you've all played together before I assume you'll each know each others playstyles & preferences though, so its probably best to just go with whatever you find most enjoyable. Knowing your own & your allies capabilities, strengths & weaknesses & playing with teamwork to make the most of them are a far better bet than having the most optimal setup & uber builds with people who cant work as a team and like to go off doing their own thing cos they're "teh uberz".

[Jakarr]

Hi All,

I've recently started this game and joined a guild of friends who I was guilded with in other MMO's and know in rl, now I had a look through the guild list and we have no obvious tanks. There are a few paladins, a bunch of clerics and a smattering of casters, but no fighters or barbarians.

Is this going to prove a problem?

I understand that DDO is supposed to be playable whatever the party composition and that tanks are different from tanks in other MMO's, can the guild survive dungeon runs without a Fighter or Barbarian? I'm currently trying out cleric, fighter and sorcerer classes and have yet to make a decision on which one to focus on, if we will need a fighter or barbarian in later dungeons en that may just make the choice easier!

Edit: I realise Paladins can tank, so make tank/melee dps inter changeable :)


Its not so much party set-up in ddo...

Forget all those rules you are bringin from other mmos that say you need a tank, healer, dps...

Now in the end you will need someone who is a meatshield any class can be a meatshield/tank all it takes is the right build.

My Sorc is a great tank, 20 DR Self-healing. Will have about 70 Intimidate etc.
I'v also played a FvS/Cleric that could tank as well.

Its all about the builds not the classes.


So all in all you dont "need" any role/build/class to do quests in ddo there is almost always another way to do a quest if you dont have a tank/healer or a rogue. But it always helps.

Now for the question it wont be a prob a grp of Paladins, casters, and cleric is just fine.

[Impaqt]

Hi All,

I've recently started this game and joined a guild of friends who I was guilded with in other MMO's and know in rl, now I had a look through the guild list and we have no obvious tanks. There are a few paladins, a bunch of clerics and a smattering of casters, but no fighters or barbarians.

Is this going to prove a problem?

I understand that DDO is supposed to be playable whatever the party composition and that tanks are different from tanks in other MMO's, can the guild survive dungeon runs without a Fighter or Barbarian? I'm currently trying out cleric, fighter and sorcerer classes and have yet to make a decision on which one to focus on, if we will need a fighter or barbarian in later dungeons en that may just make the choice easier!

Edit: I realise Paladins can tank, so make tank/melee dps inter changeable :)

WHy isnt your fighter in the guild?

If you guys are new and looking to improve, you will adapt or create the toons you need to succeed.

It should be obvious that a solid guild needs to have players that are flexible and have the ability to perform multiple tasks. people rerely enjoy playing the game the same way for any extended period of time. Mix it up... the experience lasts a lot longer.

[Eladiun]

If you guys are new and looking to improve, you will adapt or create the toons you need to succeed.

QFT... or you will get annoyed when the Cleric isn't on etc. and roll your own so you have multiple alts filling different rolls. Plus once you hit end game and start the grind it helps to have multiples.

[tihocan]

Is this going to prove a problem?
No.

[Lorz]

No.

Short and to the point.

[carlosjuero]

Why do they need color on their cheeks? Are they taking a photo? Working in Television?


Er... Pretty sure that was the joke (make-up... rouge...)

[thwart]

Er... Pretty sure that was the joke (make-up... rouge...)



Thank you .... that was the joke. I thought my cleverness was lost on everyone or even worse ... perhaps I am not as clever as I thought I was! ;)

[Stormwine]

Man when I read the thread title I thought I was going to get advice on what color eyeshadow I should wear to the Memorial day Barbecue.

[Eladiun]

Thank you .... that was the joke. I thought my cleverness was lost on everyone or even worse ... perhaps I am not as clever as I thought I was! ;)


Roll 1 on sarcasm check... Too many people not doing it as a joke + pet peeve.

[thwart]

Roll 1 on sarcasm check... Too many people not doing it as a joke + pet peeve.

lol ... I am with you on that. This is one of my pet peeves too and why this thread made me laugh when I first read the title!

[Eladiun]

lol ... I am with you on that. This is one of my pet peeves too and why this thread made me laugh when I first read the title!


Totally missed the 'Make-up' reference in title flew right over my head.

[DoctorWhofan]

Me? I perfer a traditional makeup of a party.

healer Caster DPS/tankage Rogue.

BUT...

I am confidant enough in mixing it up (almost all my non healers can at least self heal)

AND there istwo spots left for the strange builds I am not sure about.

DDO has taught me that there are pure rogues that can't find/disable traps, and guys with a level or two in rogue can. easily. without buffs.

For me, the traditional build is good for PuGs then I know the basics are covered, then fill the last two spots with anyone. I have a build plan for every quest I lead and tend not to deviate too much from that.

For clarification: I do ask multiclasses what they bring to the party, especially the strange ones. I take people at their word. Rangers, monks and Paladins are considered DPS in my books. Ranged combat is NOT. I have to get in the habit now to ask Rangers what kind of rangers are they. (Talonkage and Yandaris are my exceptions)

Clerics that don't heal, don't buff, AND don't help the group as a whole are considered selfish. While I will correct that at low levels, if you are doing it on high levels, I find that blacklisting criteria. FvS who identify themselves as melees are forgiven.

THese days I have to ask Rogue and rogue splashes what is their DD/Search/INT/DEX./etc. In short, a Resume if I need a rogue for the quest.

[gurslak]

WHy isnt your fighter in the guild?




He's only a trial character and only made to get a taste of how the class plays a bit, I realise I cant get a great deal of insight from the first couple of levels but I've gleaned enough to know I like Fighters (always have in PnP & other MMO's) but dont like the human aesthetics, they just seem a bit skinny to me. i'm also unsure whether to go ttwf or thf.

Too many decisions in this game! :)

[DoctorWhofan]

He's only a trial character and only made to get a taste of how the class plays a bit, I realise I cant get a great deal of insight from the first couple of levels but I've gleaned enough to know I like Fighters (always have in PnP & other MMO's) but dont like the human aesthetics, they just seem a bit skinny to me. i'm also unsure whether to go ttwf or thf.

Too many decisions in this game! :)

THe best part of this game is the choices. Use what you have and PuG the rest. That is what we all do. If you mess up or fail, it's ok, as long as you learn from your mistakes and move on. We were all in your position at one time.

[FarOutFish]

Thank you .... that was the joke. I thought my cleverness was lost on everyone or even worse ... perhaps I am not as clever as I thought I was! ;)

It was obviously a joke. One I have heard a number of times on the forum. Keep trying, the world needs more humor.:D

[gurslak]

Thanks for all the replies and the humour :D

Hasn't quite helped me decide on a class yet, but I'm getting there slowly. I was looking for a character that did good melee dps and a little bit more, though may just end up Fighter and apply axe to mouth :)
Would I be correct in saying there isn't a lot of difference between THF & TWF in dps output, each one is slightly stronger depending on number of mobs, but roughly equal overall?

[PointyRhiana]

I'm a newer player than you, but if you don't have a Rogue along, make sure you have a trap spotter :D I only did a few quests, and it's something that makes the virtual life of our digital avatars much easier.

[sirgog]

The roles you'll have trouble without at low and mid level are healer and trapsmith. Some quests are extremely difficult if you haven't got one or the other. Note that some unexpected characters can do this - for instance, a Ranger at low level can heal with wands, at high level, a Rogue can do so from Heal scrolls (with Use Magical Device, UMD).

By high level, some quests are really tough without sustained damage - usually this means melees. Note that some builds can melee that you might not expect (from their class levels). Melee Favored Souls and Bards are commonplace (and good), clerics and even some Wizards and Sorcs can melee too, especially if multiclassed.

[gurslak]

The main guys i'll be grouping with will be a combat favoured soul, Ranger and a cleric; I'm most likely to be ona Sorcerer as my little halfling is just plain cool, but I keep looking at the rogue and fighter class and thinking what if?

The other issue is my toon has to be a bit solo friendly, which surprisingly I've found the Sorcerer is. It looks like a payed account and more character slots may be needed :D

[Stonen]

With that setup, I would go for a rogue, because in some quests its very usefull to have a rogue around for the traps. All other stuff can be worked around, but an elite trap can kill you in one shot.

[PopeJual]

I don't want to start a "which is better" thread derailing argument, but I will point out that you can combine roles in some occasions, too.

Wizards and Sorcerers at low level are pretty pathetic at running quests solo. They can still get the job done, but it's going to be slower and more painful that a character that has real HP, real strength, real AC, etc. They still to a good job in support roles, though. They can cast Charm Person and Web and a few other spells that just make life a lot easier on the party.

Once they get Wall of Fire, though... watch out. :)

Because Wizards start with and continue to increase with high Int, they end up with a decent number of skill points. Also, Int is the stat that supports Search and Disable Device. With those two thoughts together, enter the Trapmonkey Wizard.

1st level Rogue
levels 2-8 Wizard. Now you have Wall of Fire and you can take down most of the monsters in more than half of the game's quests all by yourself.

Pick up a couple more levels of Wizard... or not and then take your second (and final) level of Rogue and the rest of your levels are Wizard until you end up a Wizard 18/Rogue 2.

You now have all the trapbusting that your party will ever need and you can still fill the role of arcane caster in the party. You won't be quite as good as a full-time wizard at laying down the pain with your spells - especially at particular levels where you're wishing you had [insert spell here] instead of having to wait that one or two extra levels. When you hit level 20, you'll also miss out on a really nice Wizard enhancement that a Wizard 20 will get.

Still, for the tradeoffs, you get a very versatile and durable charcter who can still hang with the big boys and get any traps that the quest might happen to have.

Here's the build that I swiped to build my character. You can do a similar build with a Drow as well. The Drow will have significantly higher Cha and will have 2 points more Int and better Search. The Warforged caster will be tougher and will able to heal (repair) himself in battle with arcane spells.

Warforged Wizard/Rogue: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218205