Give rogues wand/scroll mastery

[Lithic]

I get that casters and clerics should have such an enhancement. I also understand why bards, the ultimate UMDers, have an enhancement thats almost twice as good as the ones casters/clerics get.

What I don't understand is why the 2nd best UMDers don't get any wand/scroll mastery?

[Wizzly_Bear]

Probably because they're not casters and so aren't as closely attuned as actual casters. This can also be reflected via that you can get higher levels of it the higher that caster level is.

Just my bs excuse for Turbine :cool:

As far as balance issues....I don't see anything wrong with them getting this.

[Ystradmynach]

Rogues aren't casters unlike all the other classes you mentioned, their UMD skill is suppose to represent their jack of all trades nature. I don't think they should have such enhancements because they aren't suppose to masters of manipulating magic energy, especially since they can't even cast a simple cantrip (or couldn't if even if they were in the game).

Maybe if there was a spellthief PrE in the game or a spellcasting prerequisite, I can see an argument being made for wand enhancement, but it doesn't make sense to me for a run of the mill rogue.

[Lithic]

Rogues aren't casters unlike all the other classes you mentioned, their UMD skill is suppose to represent their jack of all trades nature. I don't think they should have such enhancements because they aren't suppose to masters of manipulating magic energy, especially since they can't even cast a simple cantrip (or couldn't if even if they were in the game).

Maybe if there was a spellthief PrE in the game or a spellcasting prerequisite, I can see an argument being made for wand enhancement, but it doesn't make sense to me for a run of the mill rogue.

I see it as the complete opposite. Sure caster/clerics have scroll experience as part of their training, but a rogue must go beyond their normal abilities to learn how to use them. This should give them more of a specialty in scrolls than a normal caster/cleric.

It would be like a blind man learning to drive. Anyone who can't see yet learns to drive would be a hell of a lot more focused on it then your random 16 year old highschooler.

[Drakos]

I get that casters and clerics should have such an enhancement. I also understand why bards, the ultimate UMDers, have an enhancement thats almost twice as good as the ones casters/clerics get.

What I don't understand is why the 2nd best UMDers don't get any wand/scroll mastery?
I would say that unlike Bards (the Jack of all Trades class) rogues have UMD but that isn't supposed to be the purpose behind the class.

[petegunn]

I see it as the complete opposite. Sure caster/clerics have scroll experience as part of their training, but a rogue must go beyond their normal abilities to learn how to use them. This should give them more of a specialty in scrolls than a normal caster/cleric.

It would be like a blind man learning to drive. Anyone who can't see yet learns to drive would be a hell of a lot more focused on it then your random 16 year old highschooler.

I disagree for reasons already posted. Using your theory one could also present an argument for casters and clerics to have trap skills. Now because a cleric or caster must go beyond their normal abilities to master such skills, this should open up specialty enhancements for said classes.;)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I would say that unlike Bards (the Jack of all Trades class) rogues have UMD but that isn't supposed to be the purpose behind the class.

Both Rogues and Bards have UMD as a class ability. Any thought you have about who it is more important to is entirely in your head.

[Lithic]

I disagree for reasons already posted. Using your theory one could also present an argument for casters and clerics to have trap skills. Now because a cleric or caster must go beyond their normal abilities to master such skills, this should open up specialty enhancements for said classes.;)

If they were granted the trapfinding feat (like rogues), then sure they should have enhancements. Rogues are currently granted the UMD skill, so should have enhancements to go with it.

Anyway, my rogue uses a lot more scrolls than any caster or cleric I know. Which is obviously why I would love an enhancement line to help out the heal scrolls heh.

[Drakos]

Both Rogues and Bards have UMD as a class ability. Any thought you have about who it is more important to is entirely in your head.
Yes I am aware that they both have it as a Class skill. I can see where it might have looked otherwise however.

[Eladiun]

Anyway, my rogue uses a lot more scrolls than any caster or cleric I know. Which is obviously why I would love an enhancement line to help out the heal scrolls heh.


Just because something would be useful doesn't make it a good idea. I think everyone understands why one would want this; but no it doesn't belong. Class differentiation is vital to the health of the game...

[Creeper]

It would be like a blind man learning to drive. Anyone who can't see yet learns to drive would be a hell of a lot more focused on it then your random 16 year old highschooler.

But the difference is the 16 year old COULD drive where the blind man COULD NOT drive.

[azrael4h]

But the difference is the 16 year old COULD drive where the blind man COULD NOT drive.

Someone didn't see the video of the blind guy Ford let drive a Mustang. ;)

[Creeper]

Someone didn't see the video of the blind guy Ford let drive a Mustang. ;)

Yeah? was he driving it downtown in your city?

[Nahual]

Just because something would be useful doesn't make it a good idea. I think everyone understands why one would want this; but no it doesn't belong. Class differentiation is vital to the health of the game...

I disagree with this I think class costumization is vital for the health of the game, specially in Dungeons and Dragons.

But I agree with Star I dont see why Rogues wouldnt be able to have it. My rogue also uses a lot of scrolls/wands and better use of Heal scrolls would come in handy.

This change wouldn't unbalance the game. I've never seen a Rogue with Action Points to
spare.

[vVAnjilaVv]

/unsigned....rogues get enough now...and did you see what they are adding to the prestige classes?:eek:.....they don't need it the wand/scroll mastery that is.

[ArloOne]

I personally don't see it as game breaking. I am sure the numbers wouldn't make a tremendous differnce if they had access to and spent the points to take that line of feats.
In my opinion, a rogue who can no-fail a heal scroll for say 130 points, isn't going to be making or breaking a quest.
As it is now, it comes in handy but, meh.
If they had access to wand and scroll mastery I do not feel they could make a tremendous impact.

That being said...Let them have access, it's no biggie IMO.

[vVAnjilaVv]

A rogue does not inherently cast spells tho...I don't know, it just doesn't seem right.

/still unsigned.

[sarty72]

Rogues aren't casters unlike all the other classes you mentioned, their UMD skill is suppose to represent their jack of all trades nature. I don't think they should have such enhancements because they aren't suppose to masters of manipulating magic energy, especially since they can't even cast a simple cantrip (or couldn't if even if they were in the game).

Maybe if there was a spellthief PrE in the game or a spellcasting prerequisite, I can see an argument being made for wand enhancement, but it doesn't make sense to me for a run of the mill rogue.

Well put my friend +1 rep