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View Full Version : Increase TR dungeon difficulty, lower xp penalty



Valiance
05-22-2010, 05:10 PM
So there have been a million threads on this but here is a real suggestion:

Greatly reduce ( or eliminate) TR character's xp penalty and instead use Dungeon Scaling to increase the difficulty of dungeons for characters who have TR'd.


My thought process is this, the epic grind of epic content, the epic grind of TR'ing and the lack of any new raids has pretty much destroyed my guild and is quickly destroying my interest in the game. Why? Nothing is a real challenge.

Sure epic is "hard" but not really. We all knew how to handle it....melee dps/firewall crits ect. The problem was it was actually just boring...too slow...too much grind and also too much expectation that soon epic GH would be out and all the VoN and DQ epic gear would be worthless.

So many in my guild tried TRing. That went ok for a few weeks but we soon discovered that 1) the xp grind while easily doable is just plain boring and 2) running every quest with completely geared up toons, with 34 or 36 stat points, controlled by experienced and skillful gamers while exactly 1 level above quest level was.....EXTREMELY BORING. I mean we literally would pretty much run to the end of every quest...pausing once or twice for the rare occasions where it takes more than a few swings to kill a mob.

Thus my guild was mostly decimated. Gone are all of the players who loved getting a new raid...getting in early and figuring out how to do it well. Gone are the players who loved this game for years and years. Gone because they simply found no challenge in the game anymore.

Thus my suggestion. If you must, make it an option where a TR'd character can pick the high xp path, or the more difficult journey path. If you pick the difficult journey path just use dungeon scaling to make the challenges he faces harder, perhaps much harder as he levels. I am hoping that Dungeon Scaling is sophisticated enough where if a TR joined a party it could caculate that only 1/6 of the party is a TR'd character and make it just fractionally more difficult.

For a first TR I suggest roughly making the quest scale to be one "level" harder for the character if he was solo and have a 20% FLAT extra xp requirement (2.28 million to cap) and for a 2x TR make the dungeons 2 "levels" harder (I.e a level 2 quest on normal will feel like a level 4) but have only a 40% FLAT extra xp requirement. (2.66 million to cap)

I'm sure my suggested difficulty/xp suggestions above are much too blunt but that is something for the devs to work out with scaling. I feel this suggestion solves two problems 1) it greatly reduces the mind numbing, making all my friends quit the game, boringness of the current TR grind and 2) it brings some challenge back into the game for those who so desire it.

V

Failedlegend
05-22-2010, 05:21 PM
Oh great so now me a non-TR is penalized by taking a TR into my group

/not signed

xEthreal
05-22-2010, 05:23 PM
Oh great so now me a non-TR is penalized by taking a TR into my group

/not signed

Hey you might actually have a challenge in this game for once.

Valiance
05-22-2010, 05:28 PM
Oh great so now me a non-TR is penalized by taking a TR into my group

/not signed

A few things:

1) I suggest it is an option so only some TR's pick the more difficult route and some take the high xp route. I am thinking that experienced players with tons of gear and knowledge are going to pick the difficult route. New players who just ran a character to 20 and immediately TR'd him might pick the more xp route.

2) I explained how if there was only 1 TR in the group the dungeon would only go up in difficulty by 1/6 of what it would if all the characters were "difficult path" TRs

3) You already get punished by taking a TR in your group in that they usually just want to zerg extremely fast to the end and get frustrated at new playes lack of knowledge of the game...XP is everything.

4) Even with a slightly tougher dungeon you probably just lucked out if you got a TR'd character that is all geared out and controlled by an expert of the game. You're going to have a heck of a lot easier time with a slightly harder dungeon and an expert in your group than a standard dungeon with a newb in your group

V

Angelus_dead
05-22-2010, 05:34 PM
Greatly reduce ( or eliminate) TR character's xp penalty and instead use Dungeon Scaling to increase the difficulty of dungeons for characters who have TR'd.
There's some value to that suggestion, but it would be much too impractical.

You see, the core problem is that being X level is only a weak indicator of a character's power. A level 12 guy might be a 28 point Fighter11/Cleric1 with dual +4 bastard swords, or he could be a 34 point Rogue11/Barb1 with twin Radiance 2 khopeshes. Yet the game will treat them identically in terms of XP penalties for entering dungeons of certain levels.

So that problem could be reduced a little if the system was somehow aware that the TRed characters were more powerful, and treated them more harshly in some way. But measuring character power fairly and accurately would be an enormously difficult task.

Lorien_the_First_One
05-22-2010, 05:52 PM
So that problem could be reduced a little if the system was somehow aware that the TRed characters were more powerful, and treated them more harshly in some way. But measuring character power fairly and accurately would be an enormously difficult task.

of course until L11-13 when they start getting raid gear back on, TRs aren't really much more powerful than standard twinks.

Daggaz
05-22-2010, 06:07 PM
I think if Turbine did this, the only way they could think of to increase the "difficulty" of a quest would be to just vastly up mob hitpoints, saves, and immunities. Welcome to epic grinding, now at level 10.

Would be far simpler and serve more purpose if they would just stop pumping out level five quests with epic options, and started putting in a lot more high end content as well as new races/classes/mobs/dungeon mechanics in a bid to hold on to all the veteran players, as well as giving the newer people something to look forward to when they finally get up in level.

Lorien_the_First_One
05-22-2010, 06:15 PM
i Think If Turbine Did This, The Only Way They Could Think Of To Increase The "difficulty" Of A Quest Would Be To Just Vastly Up Mob Hitpoints, Saves, And Immunities. Welcome To Epic Grinding, Now At Level 10.

Would Be Far Simpler And Serve More Purpose If They Would Just Stop Pumping Out Level Five Quests With Epic Options, And Started Putting In A Lot More High End Content As Well As New Races/classes/mobs/dungeon Mechanics In A Bid To Hold On To All The Veteran Players, As Well As Giving The Newer People Something To Look Forward To When They Finally Get Up In Level.

+1

Khelden
05-22-2010, 06:16 PM
I don't think it would be possible. Consider your 1/6 fractional difficulty, it would make the quest harder for newcomers, and easier for the TR'd. I have an alt [not even TR'd] which I twinked out, even in 6 man quests he just cut through everything with no problem at all... 1/6 would not be enough to make up for the loss of XP penalty.

Or just think about it, 1 TR 5 Veterans alt, every quests in the game becomes a joke BUT they don't have to grind as much as right now.

The XP penalty TR gets isn't so bad actually, it's a pain, but they get extra stats and passive feats. If something was to be done about it I think that it would simply be something like adding more content to the game along with new great XP quests so TR would not grind the same quest 12x, and add-in some normalisation considering the quests so people don't run the same quest forever, give more choice.

[Some stuff in the game are just weird... Take Deleras part 3 for exemple... It's a quest way more annoying than part 2 and 4 imo, but it still gives roughly 50% of the XP p2 and p4 gives. Take tangleroot, the quests before the grinded one gives ~ the same XP as the one everybody grind [where we just run, takes 1min to complete]. I mean... Normalisation would be great heh]

Rav'n
05-22-2010, 06:32 PM
.../snip...
I have an alt [not even TR'd] which I twinked out, even in 6 man quests he just cut through everything with no problem at all....

Then you said...



The XP penalty TR gets isn't so bad actually, it's a pain, but they get extra stats and passive feats.

So if you haven't TR'd.... how would you know it isn't that bad...?

While I like the idea behind the OP... I just don't see how it can be done... unless it was all or nothing. A TR steps into a quest and the Difficulty goes up. Not that I find it a problem, even on my Non-TR toons.

Khelden
05-22-2010, 06:41 PM
Then you said...

So if you haven't TR'd.... how would you know it isn't that bad...?

Huh, I said I had an alt which was not TR'd... It's a good thing that even when you TR you can make regular alts? Heh ^^

Rav'n
05-22-2010, 07:17 PM
So do you have a TR? If so is he close to Cap? Because you stated...


The XP penalty TR gets isn't so bad actually, it's a pain, but they get extra stats and passive feats.

Your post leads one to believe that you have at least one Twinked out Alt. That's cool, and if questing is easier that way, no prob. But that has nothing to do with the XP Penalty that a TR faces, let alone a 2nd TR.