Human barbarian.

[Xercen]

I dunno why everybody says go dwarf when human seems better. You might get more con some poison resist etc but humans get +1 str and an extra feat so u can get an extra toughness feat

my main is a barb and i was testing human feats....u can even use that extra feat to get stunning blow early so u can invest in an extra feat like heavy armour.

also i was wondering why don't human barbs get heavy armor feat...u get massive defense etc ...i.e is it a good trade human for dwarf?

[synkos]

I really suggest you read up on the other 124324234 threads that addressed the same things you've touched in your post. Use search or just sort by views, that should work aswell.

As for the heavy armor - it draws from pnp. Barbarians are usually supposed to be dexterous fighters of the wilderness that are simple in their armor designs and thus even out their AC with tin can fighters due to their agility.

The DDO translation of that particular aspect of the barbarian class is good until around lvl 5. Or so. Maybe even less.

It just doesn't go well with all the MMO inflations.

[Xercen]

tried search for all permutations of dwarf human barbarian and came out with nothing at all...don't see any of these threads

[synkos]

I'm sorry, I just realized I might have sounded a bit of an a$$ with my first remark.

It's just that it's really been constantly chewed on for ages now. I do realize that the search you mentioned doesn't yield any results with a direct confrontation in the thread title, but every thread that seems to get a lot of attention for any reason seems to also start another human/dwarf/wf argument. Or maybe they get the attention because of those arguments? Who knows.

The most recent I can think of is this one:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=247858&highlight=human

If I was to summarize all the arguments into one result there would be none. Because people just disagree and most of them just agree to disagree. All have their merits and people just value them differently.

Hope that helped.

[eulogy098]

I dunno why everybody says go dwarf when human seems better. You might get more con some poison resist etc but humans get +1 str and an extra feat so u can get an extra toughness feat

my main is a barb and i was testing human feats....u can even use that extra feat to get stunning blow early so u can invest in an extra feat like heavy armour.

also i was wondering why don't human barbs get heavy armor feat...u get massive defense etc ...i.e is it a good trade human for dwarf?

Barbarians dont need an extra toughness feat, they have plenty of hp as it is. They also have no use for Heavy armor as they are going to end up getting hit on a 2 anyhow. They do however have use for dwarf spell resists and axe enhancements and more con (longer rages) or WF Immunities, con and power attack.

A human will end up with less DPS (no axe bonuses or PA enhancements) less HP (3 less potential con) and less defenses (no spell resist or immunities). so basically, dwarfs and wf have every advantage and humans have none. Ultimately humans have room for both Toughness and Stunning blow- but that will just allow humans to break even when it comes to hp (and have to spend enhancement points to do it) and still end up with less defenses and dps. Humans also have lower Stunning blow/trip/sunder DC potential compared to WF or Dwarf (tactics feats)

Technical numbers aside, humans are just fine if you dont mind being slightly less powerful than your Dwarf and Warforged counterparts. Dont let anyone tell you not to play human if thats what you really want.

[vindicater]

Human healing amp is a big + I havent seen mentioned here that being said I went dwarf for the con and axe enhancments.

[Khelden]

Barbarians dont need an extra toughness feat, they have plenty of hp as it is. They also have no use for Heavy armor as they are going to end up getting hit on a 2 anyhow. They do however have use for dwarf spell resists and axe enhancements and more con (longer rages) or WF Immunities, con and power attack.

A human will end up with less DPS (no axe bonuses or PA enhancements) less HP (3 less potential con) and less defenses (no spell resist or immunities). so basically, dwarfs and wf have every advantage and humans have none. Ultimately humans have room for both Toughness and Stunning blow- but that will just allow humans to break even when it comes to hp (and have to spend enhancement points to do it) and still end up with less defenses and dps. Humans also have lower Stunning blow/trip/sunder DC potential compared to WF or Dwarf (tactics feats)

Technical numbers aside, humans are just fine if you dont mind being slightly less powerful than your Dwarf and Warforged counterparts. Dont let anyone tell you not to play human if thats what you really want.
Human = PLF = +4str/con to rage, +5 with the human str, if correctly used it can end up, with a THF, at +6str, or 4.5dmg. In the worst scenario, he will only have 4str bonus, which is +3dmg. The dwarf gets +2 with axes, which do not apply to the best two-handed weapon in the game [epic sos]. The only way to reach the 4str/con with dwarf is to drop stunning blow or improved critical. No stunning blow, I can already see the problem when the character reach epic, no improved critical would be great for the time you'd be using a min2, but again, if you hit epic sos, you're at a loss.

So I don't see how a dwarf can be ahead human for DPS optimisation... I think WF and Human are the best DPS races for the barbarian. Even without a TR, the human would have less DPS than the dwarf [same if you get epic sos though], but more survability, especially at lower levels, healing amp helps alot too [barbarian are drunkard when it comes to potions lol].

I am not a pro, but when we consider the information gathered on the forums, human seems a better choice.

[eulogy098]

Human = PLF = +4str/con to rage, +5 with the human str, if correctly used it can end up, with a THF, at +6str, or 4.5dmg. In the worst scenario, he will only have 4str bonus, which is +3dmg. The dwarf gets +2 with axes, which do not apply to the best two-handed weapon in the game [epic sos]. The only way to reach the 4str/con with dwarf is to drop stunning blow or improved critical. No stunning blow, I can already see the problem when the character reach epic, no improved critical would be great for the time you'd be using a min2, but again, if you hit epic sos, you're at a loss.

So I don't see how a dwarf can be ahead human for DPS optimisation... I think WF and Human are the best DPS races for the barbarian. Even without a TR, the human would have less DPS than the dwarf [same if you get epic sos though], but more survability, especially at lower levels, healing amp helps alot too [barbarian are drunkard when it comes to potions lol].

I am not a pro, but when we consider the information gathered on the forums, human seems a better choice.


Past life feat is not restricted to humans. Stunning blow is not a requirment either, in fact a great number of barbs dont take it, and take toughness instead. A good weighted maul or a pair of weighted hammers is good enough for epic content even without stunning blow.

The reason healing amp isnt a significant part of quality calculation is simple- you can be fully healed with one spell regardless of it. The healing amp enhancements are also very expensive.

considering epic items such as the sos as a dependable is also a mistake. i have many, many runs on evon6 and have 0 parts to build it. If you think you are just going to hit 20 and have on in your hands, think again. And even so, a dwarf with eSoS is better off than a human due to superior con and spell defense.

I hold by the statement that humans have 0 benefits over WF or Dwarf when it comes to Barbarians. Aside from cosmetics, if that is your thing.

[Khelden]

Past life feat is not restricted to humans. Stunning blow is not a requirment either, in fact a great number of barbs dont take it, and take toughness instead. A good weighted maul or a pair of weighted hammers is good enough for epic content even without stunning blow.

The reason healing amp isnt a significant part of quality calculation is simple- you can be fully healed with one spell regardless of it. The healing amp enhancements are also very expensive.

considering epic items such as the sos as a dependable is also a mistake. i have many, many runs on evon6 and have 0 parts to build it. If you think you are just going to hit 20 and have on in your hands, think again. And even so, a dwarf with eSoS is better off than a human due to superior con and spell defense.

I hold by the statement that humans have 0 benefits over WF or Dwarf when it comes to Barbarians. Aside from cosmetics, if that is your thing.
You are forgetting some stuff here, human can have 1 STR more than Dwarf, if well-used, it can turns out to be a 2STR, which means 1 more base damage + AB. Also, for the same amount of AP a dwarf would use to get axe mastery 2, a human will get human versatility 3, which is another +4 base dmg for 18.8s, 7 times. Add in the 6 points spent on dwarf spell def, and you reach human versataility 4, which adds 5 damage. It adds up.

Considering weighted stuff, this means you wouldn't be using eSoS, which prolly means a huge loss of damage. I would never take toughness over stunning blow. So, whats the best you can do? Past life + stunning blow + eSoS = Profit :)

As for healing amp being useless, I do not agree. While it is extremely useful while leveling, I even see it useful in epic, barbarian have easily 600-700 HP end-game and the little extra 10-20% more HP from the lesser heals adds up too, I see mass cure critical used in epics, if the spell has been casted like, 20 times in a fight, it sum up a great deal of HP. However, I could totally understand swapping healing amp when starting to focus on epics to maximize the damage output with human versatility, matter of preference.

I wouldn't create a character without aiming for end-game stuff as it's simply not my style. I also already got my 1st SoS piece on my 1st epic run [actually, the seal dropped in von1 AND von2, in the same chain run heh] and the sos scroll goes for only 2-3mil on my server, so nothing is impossible.

[Bacab]

Human healing amp is a big + I havent seen mentioned here that being said I went dwarf for the con and axe enhancments.

This^^

WF get immunities and Power Attack and CON

Dwarf are great with axes and have nice resistances and CON

Human get bonus skill points and a feat. Also healing amp and potential more racial toughness (cost AP though)

Baisically as long as you do not make your Barb an Elf or Drow or Halfling...you will/can be optimal.

Not to say Elf/Drow/Halfling can not work...its just an uphill battle.

[Xercen]

Very nice replies...now i really understand that human barb is as good as a dwarf one if not better.

thank you very much

[Rusty_Can]

To the OP: humans makes perfectly viable barbarians.


Human = PLF = +4str/con to rage

As a side note, iirc, it has been stated that some past life feats are not working as intended and they will be fixed; the barbarian past life feat should be one of these.

[rezo]

I have a halfling Barbarain and I must say I love it when I rage, you hear that little squeaking noise, lol. Also I went 2 lvl's of rog so the sneak attack damage is sweet. :D