Rage spell

[Adalita]

So the description says that the target is one willing living creature per three levels, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart. That implies it works as a semi-AoE effect? Is this correct? And is the caster included? If so, what are the benefits of Barbarian rage over the spell rage?

[BLAKROC]

So the description says that the target is one willing living creature per three levels, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart. That implies it works as a semi-AoE effect? Is this correct? And is the caster included? If so, what are the benefits of Barbarian rage over the spell rage?

rage spell stacks with barb rage, and in fact is very usefull to most mellee typse.
it is AOE but on hits a few not all.

[cm2_supernova]

So the description says that the target is one willing living creature per three levels, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart. That implies it works as a semi-AoE effect? Is this correct? And is the caster included? If so, what are the benefits of Barbarian rage over the spell rage?

Yep...the semi-aoe is on point. Sometimes you will have to double cast it to get everyone in a raid. The benifit is that it stacks with barbarian rage.

[Adalita]

Yep...the semi-aoe is on point. Sometimes you will have to double cast it to get everyone in a raid. The benifit is that it stacks with barbarian rage.

OK so it stacks, good to know. I'm planning a Warchanter, and was going to go 18Bard / 2 Fgt, but now I'm thinking 18 / 1 fgt / 1 barb

[Tsuarok]

my understanding is that at endgame the limited use/duration of barbarian rage from only one level or barb make it ineffective. You may get more out of the 2nd level of fighter.

[sly_1]

The only real benefit of 1 barb is the 10% run boost and d12 hd for 1 lvl. Beyond that it's worthless. a 2nd feat from fighter 2 at a cost of 2 hp and 10% run speed is almost always going to be better. That little 1x/day rage isn't going to do squat for you end game.

As an aside you might want to think about 16 bard/2 fighter/2 rogue. Pickup evasion and 1d6 sneak attack dmg. Evasion goes a long way towards reducing the squishyness of a bard.

[cm2_supernova]

Fighter is generally accepted as the better choice, but I have a 15 bard/3 rogue/2 barb warchanter that I love to play fwiw.

[PowerOfRaistlin]

yes, it is a very important spell. hp is king. without hp you're dead and not doing anything to contribute. no matter how you contribute or how effectively or w.e dead=0% effectiveness (we'll stay in the range of >-1 to keep moral high)

The thing to consider is what thing will look like at L20, b/c that is where most of anything is done. If you think getting to 20 is fun, just you wait sir!

So L20, +2 Con from rage spell = +20 hp (Nice)
+6 Con Item = +120 hp (95% of 20's have this)
Greater false life Item = +30 hp (75% of 20's have this)
Minos Legens = +20 hp (99% of 20's have this or equivalent)
Heroic Durability = +20 hp (100% of 1's have this ;) )
Con score (lets say 10 for no bonus) = +0 hp :'(
Lowest hid die = d4x20= +80
Draconic Vitality = +10 hp (Easily achieved)

This results in 300 minimum hp for a below average L20 using the rage spell. My rogue way back when died quite often with this. This is workable but very low and the healers will usually stop bothering with you before long. You can add another 20 hp to our total for every 2 points you put into con (at char creation) and even craft +45 hp items from shroud or even get the toughness feat for 22 more hp and access to toughness enhancements (+10 hp/lvl).

So with just a 14 con we can go up to 340 hp. With a tier 2 hp item we can go up to 375. With 1 feat or even a +2 con tome we can go up to ~400. This is a very workable number and does not require much effort. Obviously though there are classes with higher hit dice that will have much more hp, but 400 hp is pretty much a minimum to shoot for on a L20 character (remember we're calculating a true wiz/sorc).

So you're rage spell is an intricate part of that calculation. Without you, you're fellow party members will be sub par! So go out there brave minstrel and bring them back home to sing of their glories!

P.S. No casters were harmed in the creation of this post! (Unless they had <400 hp, then they were flogged a few times)!

[KillEveryone]

I personally didn't care for the 2 barb I added to my warchanter. I didn't like having to dismiss a rage when I needed to scroll heal myself.

Nanny was a 16 bard/2 fighter/2 barb. I got rid of the barb. I don't think it is worth it.

I do like rage. Even though I didn't like the 2 barb in my character, I do like rage and I do like the spell. Minor benefit but it is still nice to have.

I have casted the spell 3 times in a raid group and I didn't get hit with it at all and had to cast it a 4th time on myself just to get the spell.

It will hit 6 people. It doesn't check if someone already has the spell cast on them so when you cast it again, someone that had recieved the benefit from the previous cast will have a refresh.

If you want to stay 18/2, you are way better going 2 fighter instead of adding a barbarian. A 16 bard/4 fighter is a bit better I feel since you have accecess to a few more fighter(second attack speed boost) enhancements and another feat.

I do understand the 18/2. You are hedging bets that they will add a Tier III warchanter. I hope it is in the works also but I'll believe it when I see it and then I don't know what any benefits from that would be.

[cm2_supernova]

without hp you're dead


This is perhaps the only part of your post I following...

[blitzschlag]

yes, it is a very important spell. hp is king. without hp you're dead and not doing anything to contribute. no matter how you contribute or how effectively or w.e dead=0% effectiveness (we'll stay in the range of >-1 to keep moral high)

The thing to consider is what thing will look like at L20, b/c that is where most of anything is done. If you think getting to 20 is fun, just you wait sir!

So L20, +2 Con from rage spell = +20 hp (Nice)
+6 Con Item = +120 hp (95% of 20's have this)
Greater false life Item = +30 hp (75% of 20's have this)
Minos Legens = +20 hp (99% of 20's have this or equivalent)
Heroic Durability = +20 hp (100% of 1's have this ;) )
Con score (lets say 10 for no bonus) = +0 hp :'(
Lowest hid die = d4x20= +80
Draconic Vitality = +10 hp (Easily achieved)

This results in 300 minimum hp for a below average L20 using the rage spell. My rogue way back when died quite often with this. This is workable but very low and the healers will usually stop bothering with you before long. You can add another 20 hp to our total for every 2 points you put into con (at char creation) and even craft +45 hp items from shroud or even get the toughness feat for 22 more hp and access to toughness enhancements (+10 hp/lvl).

So with just a 14 con we can go up to 340 hp. With a tier 2 hp item we can go up to 375. With 1 feat or even a +2 con tome we can go up to ~400. This is a very workable number and does not require much effort. Obviously though there are classes with higher hit dice that will have much more hp, but 400 hp is pretty much a minimum to shoot for on a L20 character (remember we're calculating a true wiz/sorc).

So you're rage spell is an intricate part of that calculation. Without you, you're fellow party members will be sub par! So go out there brave minstrel and bring them back home to sing of their glories!

P.S. No casters were harmed in the creation of this post! (Unless they had <400 hp, then they were flogged a few times)!

heh, thats a clear case of missing the point i'd say ;)

[cm2_supernova]

heh, thats a clear case of missing the point i'd say ;)

Its also pretty innacurate.

[blitzschlag]

Its also pretty innacurate.

if you leave his percentages out (which are all rather off mark) we have following wrongnesses (in case someone takes his written stuff serious):

- a +6 con item give 60hp's at lvl 20 (1 hp per level per con modifier)
- bards(OP mentioned his) and rogue (poster mentioned his) have d6 hit die not d4
- no character is subpar without rage-spell

generally hp numbers can't be generalized. only one thing is certain: you wanna tank horoth or sally on elite you better have >550hp

[GATORZ]

Mine is an axesinger build which reaches 527 w/ rage spell no madstone boots yet but has no prob tanking any end game bosses

[PowerOfRaistlin]

ok i will admit it was quite late my time when i was posting that. some of it i goofed on, but i was mostly being goofy. point was hp is important and not too hard to achieve. hope that struck home.

[Tuney]

Doesn't warchanter add an extra barb rage so he'd have 2 rages?

[cm2_supernova]

Doesn't warchanter add an extra barb rage so he'd have 2 rages?

Yes, if you build a bardbarian the warchanter PrE will give you +1 rage/day.

[Rusty_Can]

Doesn't warchanter add an extra barb rage so he'd have 2 rages?

Yes. It's fair to assume that Warchanter II and III will improve this synergy.

However, if you are multiclassing to barbarian in order to achieve barbarian rage, then 2 levels are better: 2 barbarian levels would unlock Extended Rage I (+25% duration) and Extra Rage I.

The Tod FB set would provide 1 more rage.

(WARNING: this might not be working as intended) Looks like the selectable Barbarian past life feat is providing some hidden improvements to barbarian rage (+4 to STR and CON, extended duration).

Thus, given the current implementations, an 18 bard - 2 barbarian Warchanter, wearing the ToD set and with the selectable barbarian past life feat, might be able to hit 12-15+ minutes of (enhanced) barbarian rage.