Solar Phoenix, updated for Mod 5.

[SolarDawning]

An update of my original build, the discussion thread for which can be found here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238298).

Preface:
This is not an exhaustive guide on what feats, skills, and enhancements to take at each level. There are a lot of aspects of the build which are open to be modified according to personal preference. As always, options are up to the player.

Goals of the Build:
- To create a character capable of fully healing his/herself easily via resources which are renewable without resting, primarily through the use of Fists of Light's Healing Curse, and the Healing Ki finisher.
- To provide competent melee DPS via two-weapon longsword fighting using Smite Evil and Divine Sacrifice.

Race and Levels:
Human 12 Paladin/7 Monk/1 Rogue

Reasoning for Race and Levels:
The main reason for Human is for the Human racial line of Healing Amplification enhancements, which contribute significantly to the main purpose of the build.

Defensively, 12 Paladin allows for Devotion I-IV, and Paladin Hunter of the Dead II, both of which are key to the build. HotD II provides 20% Healing Amplification and immunity to negative levels, while Devotion IV increases the effect of Healing Ki. Also, of course, are the numerous other defensive benefits of the paladin class, such as Divine Grace and Aura of Good.

Offensively, Paladin provides smites and Divine Sacrifice, which are key to this build's offensive damage.

Monk 7 provides Evasion, 20% additional healing amplification, second tier elemental stances and strikes, and most importantly, Fists of Light, which is this build's main source of healing.
Shintao Monk 1 will provide the build with alternate ways to activate Healing Ki, and to do so quicker as an emergency heal.

Rogue 1 provides 1d6+3 sneak attack damage and Haste Boost I, both of which are helpful to contribute towards damage in raid boss target situations. With proper gear and skill allocation, Rogue 1 also provides the ability to handle a good number of traps and locks throughout the game.

Key Benefits of the Build:
-Evasion.
-High Saving Throws
-Excessive healing amplification. (approx. 401%)
-A powerful self-centered AoE cure, which will heal the caster by 245 HP on average, and can be cast once every 9 seconds (Can be cast more often and cheaper with Shintao Monk PrE, coming Update 5), using Ki, which is an easily renewable resource.
-Constant healing while attacking an enemy. 4 or 8 per hit from Fists of Light.
-Capable and steady strength-based two weapon fighting melee damage with longswords.

Starting Ability Scores: 36 Point Buy
16 Strength
15 Dexterity (With a +2 tome, this meets the requirement to take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
14 Constitution
12 Wisdom
10 Intelligence (With a tome, this will allow for the use of Silver Flame favor healing potions without self-incapacitation from ability score damage.)
14 Charisma (With a +2 tome, this will allow for Paladin Divine Might II)

Final Unbuffed Ability Scores:
(Note. These scores include +2 tomes, which are easy for me to acquire. They do not presume any higher tomes.
Only permanent scores are included, not temporary buffs.)
34 Strength. (16 base + 1 Racial Enhancement + 5 Level Up +2 Tome + 6 Item +2 Sun Stance, +2 Exceptional [on a ToD ring] )
24 Dexterity. (15 base + 1 racial enhancement +2 Tome +6 Item)
22 Constitution. (14 Base + 2 Tome +6 Item)
20 Wisdom: (12 base -2 Sun Stance +2 Class Enhancement +2 Tome +6 Item)
12 Intelligence: (10 Base +2 Tome)
24 Charisma: (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 Class Enhancement)

Monk Stance: Sun Stance.
This build will remain in Sun Stance most, if not all, of the time. This will provide exceptional Ki generation, allowing for no difficulty in repeated use of Healing Ki.
Additionally, this will enable the Jidz-Tet-ka bracers to provide +25% Healing Amplification.

Level Progression and Feats:
11 feats in total, including 1 Human Bonus Feat and 3 Monk Bonus Feats.

Level 1, Human Bonus Feat: Luck of Heroes (Shintao Monk Prerequisite)
Level 1, Rogue: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 2, Monk Bonus Feat: Stunning Fist (Shintao Monk Prerequisite)
Level 3, Paladin: Weapon Focus: Slashing (Whirling Steel Strike Prerequisite)
Level 4, Monk Bonus Feat: Toughness
Level 5, Monk: Path of Harmonious Balance
Level 6, Paladin: Whirling Steel Strike
Level 7, Paladin:
Level 8, Paladin:
Level 9, Paladin: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10, Paladin:
Level 11, Paladin:
Level 12, Paladin: Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 13, Monk:
Level 14, Paladin:
Level 15, Paladin: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 16, Paladin:
Level 17, Paladin:
Level 18, Monk: Improved Critical: Slashing
Level 19, Monk Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Level 20, Monk:

Healing Amplification:
This is the primary mechanic of the build.
Here are its sources of healing amplification:
30% - Human Racial Enhancements
20% - Hunter of the Dead II
20% - Monk Class Enhancements
10% - Dragontouched Eldritch Rune
20% - Dragontouched Tempest Rune
25% - Jidz-Tet'ka
30% - Greensteel Triple Positive Longsword

Total: Approx. 401% total Healing Amplification.

Healing Ki:
10d4 = 25 average.
+40% Paladin Devotion IV = 35
+75% Superior Ardor 1 potion = 53.75
53.75 multiplied by 4.01 = 215.5 average healing.

Required Items:
-Dragontouched Vestments or Robe: 10% Healing Amplification from Eldritch Rune, 20% Healing Amplification from Tempest Rune, Sovereign rune property of your choice.
-Jidz-Tet'ka bracers.
-Longswords: Main Hand: Greensteel Min II or Lit II. Off Hand: Greensteel triple positive (Ideal would be Holy/Good Burst/30% Healing Amp)

Skills:
Up to personal preference.
Trap skills and Use Magic Device can be kept at useful amounts.

Enhancements:
Also up to personal preference, these can easily be reset and re-allocated to find the perfect allocation.
The enhancements which are highly desired by the build are as follows:
Hunter of the Dead II and prerequisites.
Shintao Monk I and prerequisites.
Human Healing Amplification: All three enhancements.
Monk Healing Amplification: I and II.
Paladin Devotion I, II, III, and IV.
Divine Might II

-----------------------
To summarize, the build deals solid damage with high strength, access to Greensteel weaponry, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Divine Might II, and Divine Favor, while leveraging Smite Evil, Divine Sacrifice, and Shintao Monk's Smite Evil as DPS tools, as well as some sneak attack from Rogue I and Tharne's Goggles.

Defensively, the Solar Phoenix has solid HP, high saving throws, Evasion, and over 400% healing amplification, while able to self-heal easily with Healing Ki.

If you choose to allocate the skills for it and have the proper equipment, the build is capable of disarming traps and picking locks.

Feedback is not only appreciated, but welcome.

[LunaCee]

Offensively, Paladin provides smites and Divine Sacrifice, which are key to this build's offensive damage, which admittedly will be weaker than other paladin builds, due to this build's use of kamas as primary weapons.

Minor fix needed there! You have WSS feat and weapons listed as longswords... maybe you should go back and fix that small little left behind tidbit? Bolded for emphasis.

[SolarDawning]

Thanks, fixing it up now!
I copy/pasted 25% of it from the old build, and re-wrote 75%. Checking it over to make sure there's no other little errors in it.

[Sillk]

If you're not too concerned with AC, you could swap out Combat Expertise for Cleave (by taking Power Attack earlier) and get more damage (and ki) for your effort.

[Eurytos]

Looks like an interesting build now with the addition of longswords. Was "Meh" at best with Kamas. Should be a lot of fun with the amount of mass healing you will be able to provide with shintao monk light attacks and healing curse. Should be able to do a LOT of back to back healing ki mass cures. Granted, it will affect you a ton more than everyone else, but that's fine :D

[SolarDawning]

If you're not too concerned with AC, you could swap out Combat Expertise for Cleave (by taking Power Attack earlier) and get more damage (and ki) for your effort.

Yeah, that's an option. I thought about it, but Cleave isn't terribly useful with TWF, and this build doesn't have ki issues, as it fights in sun stance. In practice from my kama version of it, I've found that I've typically got a nearly full ki bar.
Combat Expertise, though admittedly not very useful, does have situational use while leveling, if you can out-AC content while soloing.

I'm very excited about the damage capability of this build, as compared to the old kama version. Update 5 will be a huge bonus to this.

[SolarDawning]

Looks like an interesting build now with the addition of longswords. Was "Meh" at best with Kamas. Should be a lot of fun with the amount of mass healing you will be able to provide with shintao monk light attacks and healing curse. Should be able to do a LOT of back to back healing ki mass cures. Granted, it will affect you a ton more than everyone else, but that's fine :D

Exactly, longswords are a godsend to this build. I'll be reincarnating my main monk into this with update 5, and abandoning my kama version. =)

[Valindria]

Combat Expertise has a req of 13 INT.

I think it's kind of a poor choice in this build since it will be stripped everytime you do a heal finisher. I'd say luck of hereos, just get the +1 to all saves and call it good.

I have updated my HotD with the long sword idea. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243270

[Oolung]

Very solid build, again.

I really like it.

Edit: too slow on noticing the kamas thing

[Gnorbert]

A friend is making one of these and even at level 9, the boost to his healing when I use my dragonmarks on him is huge. Very strong char.

[SolarDawning]

Combat Expertise has a req of 13 INT.

I think it's kind of a poor choice in this build since it will be stripped everytime you do a heal finisher. I'd say luck of hereos, just get the +1 to all saves and call it good.

I have updated my HotD with the long sword idea. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243270

Thanks, and you're probably right. Luck of Heroes is the better feat to use for the Shintao prerequisite. Updating the post accordingly, thanks for the feedback.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Hmm, I'd forgotten that Luck of Heroes can be taken instead of Cleave. Maybe I can fit in Shintao after all. =\

A couple quests on weapons... Against raid bosses where DR is an issue, will you switch to dual Mineral 2s? And what do you think of the Dream Edges (assuming a good enchantment on it)?

EDIT: If I'm taking Shintao, would I need 3 uses of LoH per rest? Or will 2 be sufficient do you think?

[SolarDawning]

Hmm, I'd forgotten that Luck of Heroes can be taken instead of Cleave. Maybe I can fit in Shintao after all. =\

A couple quests on weapons... Against raid bosses where DR is an issue, will you switch to dual Mineral 2s? And what do you think of the Dream Edges (assuming a good enchantment on it)?

Against stand-and-beat raid bosses like Harry, Horoth, etc, you can easily swap in a second Min II instead of the Pos offhand sword. You won't need to rely on healing yourself in a raid situation, and will still have tons of amp regardless. The amp's mostly a "just because I can" thing for small-group questing. It lets you jump solo into elites, take a beating, and shrug it off.

I wouldn't bother with dream edges anymore. The damage is just too low, and as you can't get metals on them, they won't be any good for passing DR.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I wouldn't bother with dream edges anymore. The damage is just too low, and as you can't get metals on them, they won't be any good for passing DR.

You say that after I spent a month farming for good Dream Edges for the original non-Longsword build. :(

Finally got me a Vorpal one too...

[SolarDawning]

You say that after I spent a month farming for good Dream Edges for the original non-Longsword build. :(

Finally got me a Vorpal one too...

Heh, sorry. :o
Always good to have vorpals on hand, regardless!

[AylinIsAwesome]

I think a healing amp Dream Edge (like you mentioned in your first thread) would be a pretty good alternative to a triple pos longsword now. It's 19-20 3x, so it's basically a Dwarven Axe that gives you life. Though the DPS wouldn't be as high as the longsword, because of no Holy and no Burst effects. =\

At least I don't have to make that decision, 'cause I doubt I'd ever pull one of those. :p

[SolarDawning]

I think a healing amp Dream Edge (like you mentioned in your first thread) would be a pretty good alternative to a triple pos longsword now. It's 19-20 3x, so it's basically a Dwarven Axe that gives you life. Though the DPS wouldn't be as high as the longsword, because of no Holy and no Burst effects. =\

At least I don't have to make that decision, 'cause I doubt I'd ever pull one of those. :p

There's the base damage and crit range difference, too-
(assuming Improved Crit)
Dream Edge - 1d6 19-20x3
Greensteel Longsword - 1d10 17-20x2 <- Wins by quite a large margin.

I decided to go with a triple pos longsword as the offhand weapon for 30% amp because it's among the cheapest greensteels to craft. Only needs three large stones and scales, in one supreme shard. Holy and good burst on it are helpful against just about everything, as well.

Update 5 just brought so many great things for this build that I had to redo it.

[LunaCee]

One of the things I've been playing with to try to work out is a 13/7 Cleric/Monk.

And one of the things I'm insanely curious about is whether the 1st tier Radiant PrE special's caster level is actually based off cleric level, or just character level like most special enhancement abilities. Either 4 or 6 points of base healing per tick... toss in about 350% heal amp and that is either 14 or 21 points of self healing per tick.

And yes I definitely realize such a build would be much more niche. But hey, I'd be aiming for a battle cleric with such a split anyways. But with a Torc, a regenerative special running, healing curse, healing ki finishers, emergency full power Heals... whoo! Talk about self sufficient.

[sirgog]

There's an error in your calculations.

Superior Ardor 1 and Devotion 4 stack additively, not multiplicatively. (This is easily tested by noting that Clerics generally heal for 285 with Heal - 150 x1.9, 40% for Devotion, 50% for Potency).

[ConnorMacLoad]

Looks like an interesting build now with the addition of longswords. Was "Meh" at best with Kamas. Should be a lot of fun with the amount of mass healing you will be able to provide with shintao monk light attacks and healing curse. Should be able to do a LOT of back to back healing ki mass cures. Granted, it will affect you a ton more than everyone else, but that's fine :D

In another thread you mention that wraps are better DPS than longswords, even in splashes (at least I think it was you....same avatar :D) curious why longswords are used here instead of wraps? This is more a question for dawn I suppose, but since you also had the info on DPS, thought I would ask you too.

[voodoogroves]

I'd wager a guess that it allows you to pick the Sovereign Host enhancements for longsword attack/damage adders w/ pally ... and it allows for the use of greensteel weapons (two of them) as opposed to whatever wraps you can find/buy.

[ConnorMacLoad]

I'd wager a guess that it allows you to pick the Sovereign Host enhancements for longsword attack/damage adders w/ pally ... and it allows for the use of greensteel weapons (two of them) as opposed to whatever wraps you can find/buy.

This was my thinking as well, especially when I first saw the LS feat, but the difference in damage was very wide. To the point that I am not sure now that SH enhancement is enough to catch. I have not ran numbers, but maybe I should..... I was just thinking that maybe there was a large amount of value in longswords here that I am missing, as apposed to wraps.

[hydra_ex]

This was my thinking as well, especially when I first saw the LS feat, but the difference in damage was very wide. To the point that I am not sure now that SH enhancement is enough to catch. I have not ran numbers, but maybe I should..... I was just thinking that maybe there was a large amount of value in longswords here that I am missing, as apposed to wraps.

A few things put longswords in favour of this build.
1. Eurytos' calculations include a red scale robe, which a. does not work on devils and b. is not used on this build.
2. Smites (both from Shintao I, and Paladin) are not included, which favour weapons with higher critical ranges, and, being clicky based, are not biased to a differential in attack speeds.
3. Seeker damage (+4, minimum) is not included, which favours weapons with higher critical ranges.
4. Divine Sacrifice is not included, which favours weapons with higher critical ranges, and, being clicky based, is not biased to a differential in attack speeds.
5. Touch of death is included in Eurytos' calculations, for which this build does not qualify.
6. Fist damage is much lower on this build.
7. Wind stance attack speed boost is much lower on this build.
8. Nearly impossible to obtain handwraps are used in Eurytos' calculations.
9. Exalted Smite is not included, which favours weapons with high critical ranges, and, being clicky based, is not biased to a differential in attack speeds.
10. Against high end boss monsters with DR, the difference in added effects between a MineralII and the devout wraps is a ton lower than the difference between litII and uber bane handwraps.

Of course, this build does not dual wield LitII longswords (either LitII/pos3 or minII/minII), but all the above probably put the longsword substantially in the lead.

However, I can think of something things in favour of wraps, Tharne's Goggles and the 1d6 SA damage.

Any increase to base damage numbers might favour either one. To test, we have to see how much faster one attacks with wraps vs longswords. So, the difference is the 12% increase from using wraps.
So, for every n points in increase to base damage and s increase in STR (highly unlikely) over an a number of swings with a longsword:

LS:
Misses: 0.05a
Regular Hits: 0.75a
Crits: 0.2a
So, over a swings,
MH: 0.75a/2*(n + s) +0.2a/2*(2(n + s)) = 0.575a(n + s)
OH: 0.75a/2*(n + s/2) +0.2a/2*(2(n + s/2)) = 0.575a(n + s/2)
Total: a(1.15n + 0.8625s)

Wraps: -> number of attacks = 1.12a
Misses: 0.056a
Regular Hits: 0.952a
Crits: 0.112a
MH+OH = 0.952a(n + s) + 0.112a(n + s) = a(1.064n + 1.064s)

So, as we can see, assuming STR does not increase (which is rare), additions to base damage (songs, litany) favour the longsword. In fact, additional damage only favours wraps if s > 4.268n. That is a very difficult (if not impossible) parameter to meet, so, this leads to the conclusion, that, beyond doubt LS > wraps.

[ConnorMacLoad]

A few things put longswords in favour of this build.
1. Eurytos' calculations include a red scale robe, which a. does not work on devils and b. is not used on this build.
2. Smites (both from Shintao I, and Paladin) are not included, which favour weapons with higher critical ranges, and, being clicky based, are not biased to adifferential in attack speeds.
3. Seeker damage (+4, minimum) is not included, which favours weapons with higher critical ranges.
4. Divine Sacrifice is not included, which favours weapons with higher critical ranges, and, being clicky based, is not biased to a differential in attack speeds.
5. Tough of death is included in Eurytos' calculations, for which this build does not qualify.
6. Fist damage is much lower on this build.
7. Wind stance attack speed boost is much lower on this build.
8. Nearly impossible to obtain handwraps are used in Eurytos' calculations.
9. Exalted Smite is not included, which favours weapons with high critical ranges, and, being clicky based, is not biased to a differential in attack speeds.
10. Against high end boss monsters with DR, the difference in added effects between a MineralII and the devout wraps is a ton lower than the difference between litII and uber bane handwraps.

Of course, this build does not dual wield LitII longswords (either LitII/pos3 or minII/minII), but all the above probably put the longsword substantially in the lead.

I realize I may be de-railing this thread with this line of thought, so I will stop while posts are still helpful to this build ;) Appreciate the response. 1-4 is what I was looking for :)

[AylinIsAwesome]

In another thread you mention that wraps are better DPS than longswords, even in splashes (at least I think it was you....same avatar :D) curious why longswords are used here instead of wraps? This is more a question for dawn I suppose, but since you also had the info on DPS, thought I would ask you too.

The main reason (apart from what was already said) is that you can put 30% healing amp on a Greensteel weapon. Since there are no Greensteel handwraps, going with longswords is just better.

Also I've heard horror stories about people grinding for Devout Handwraps... And with grinding for two specific things on the DT robes...less grindy things are good.

[hebularks]

can you post what a 32 pointers would have to do or is it a 36 pointers only ?

cheers

[BaronZ]

I'd started the Kama version of this as a 32-point build because sustainable self-healing intrigued me. I got to level 9 before I got distracted. I didn't see any possible way of making Rogue skills worthwhile on a 32-pointer, so I was planning on 12 paladin/8 monk. The main advantage to this is hitting BAB 20 with monk weapons. I was also thinking there was something worthwhile in Monk 8, but looking at it again this is only the case for unarmed.

If I were to attempt this with update 5 on a 32 pointer (which I probably will). I'd likely replace your Rogue level with Fighter.

Pros:

Access to Fighter Haste Boost
BAB 20 with Monk weapons (really disappointed if this isn't the case with long swords and WSS) for extra swing
Extra Feat (probably a second Toughness)
Nothing really worthwhile in Paladin 13 or Monk 8 for this build

Cons (as opposed to Rogue):
Lose 1d6 sneak attack
Lose UMD as a class skill
Lose trap smithing/lock picking skills (which I wouldn't have been able to keep up in my Paladin levels with an 8 Int)

[SolarDawning]

I'd started the Kama version of this as a 32-point build because sustainable self-healing intrigued me. I got to level 9 before I got distracted. I didn't see any possible way of making Rogue skills worthwhile on a 32-pointer, so I was planning on 12 paladin/8 monk. The main advantage to this is hitting BAB 20 with monk weapons. I was also thinking there was something worthwhile in Monk 8, but looking at it again this is only the case for unarmed.

If I were to attempt this with update 5 on a 32 pointer (which I probably will). I'd likely replace your Rogue level with Fighter.

Pros:

Access to Fighter Haste Boost (Rogue has an identical enhancement, Rogue Haste Boost 1)
BAB 20 with Monk weapons (really disappointed if this isn't the case with long swords and WSS) for extra swing (There's no "extra swing" at specific BAB's like there is in PnP, see below.)
Extra Feat (probably a second Toughness)
Nothing really worthwhile in Paladin 13 or Monk 8 for this build

Cons (as opposed to Rogue):
Lose 1d6 sneak attack (Actually, you lose 1d6+3, as rogue Sneak Attack Training 1 gives +3 damage to sneak attack for one enhancement point.)
Lose UMD as a class skill
Lose trap smithing/lock picking skills (which I wouldn't have been able to keep up in my Paladin levels with an 8 Int)

The build listed in the first post will have 17 BAB at level 20 with longswords. With the way attack bonus is implemented in DDO, the only difference you will see between 17 and 20 is a minute (only noticeable when measured out amongst hundreds of swings) difference in attack speed. There's no "extra swing" like you would see in PnP. As for the actual hit bonus itself, you'll be able to keep Divine Favor running all the time. That, not to mention the attack bonus from sovereign host enhancements, weapon focus feat, and other buffs taken into consideration means that you'll have no problem hitting at high levels.

That said, if you don't want the extra damage or skills from rogue, and would rather have 23 more HP from toughness, go for it.

[SolarDawning]

It's just been brought to my attention that healing enhancements such as Paladin Devotion may stack additively with item effects such as Devotion or Ardor, and not multiplicatively as I had assumed. If so, I'll need to redo my healing ki calculations in the initial post, and they'll end up a bit lower.

Can anyone else confirm this?

[LunaCee]

Formula for spell damage (and healing does count as damage, only in reverse in this game) is base value + (base value * modifier) + (base value * modifier) + ... you get the idea.

Therefore given a base of 30 positive energy for example modified by a superior ardor pot and a 4th rank devotion enhancement...

30 + (30 * .75) + (30 * .40)
30 + 22.5 + 12
64

Even if you add maximize and empower to that its still much the same kind of setup.

30 + (30 * .75) + (30 * .40) + (30 * 1) + (30 * .5)
30 + 22.5 + 12 + 30 + 15
109

Hope that answers your question, yes it would be additive unless for paladins its different from the same calculations used for all other arcane and divine casters.

[SolarDawning]

Formula for spell damage (and healing does count as damage, only in reverse in this game) is base value + (base value * modifier) + (base value * modifier) + ... you get the idea.

Therefore given a base of 30 positive energy for example modified by a superior ardor pot and a 4th rank devotion enhancement...

30 + (30 * .75) + (30 * .40)
30 + 22.5 + 12
64

Even if you add maximize and empower to that its still much the same kind of setup.

30 + (30 * .75) + (30 * .40) + (30 * 1) + (30 * .5)
30 + 22.5 + 12 + 30 + 15
109

Hope that answers your question, yes it would be additive unless for paladins its different from the same calculations used for all other arcane and divine casters.

Thank you, fixed the calculation in the initial build post.

[sirgog]

Formula for spell damage (and healing does count as damage, only in reverse in this game) is base value + (base value * modifier) + (base value * modifier) + ... you get the idea.

Therefore given a base of 30 positive energy for example modified by a superior ardor pot and a 4th rank devotion enhancement...

30 + (30 * .75) + (30 * .40)
30 + 22.5 + 12
64

Even if you add maximize and empower to that its still much the same kind of setup.

30 + (30 * .75) + (30 * .40) + (30 * 1) + (30 * .5)
30 + 22.5 + 12 + 30 + 15
109

Hope that answers your question, yes it would be additive unless for paladins its different from the same calculations used for all other arcane and divine casters.

Metamagics don't stack that way.

Stacking on healing and damage is as follows:

Firstly, the best item stacks additively with the best enhancement (100% + 75% Ardor + 40% Enhancement)

Secondly, metamagics stack additively with each other, although this isn't important here (Max-Emp = 250%)

Thirdly, the 'metamagic' factor stacks multiplicatively with the item/enhancement factor.

Example: My Clr18/Ftr2's Heal spell hits for 150 base. Assuming no Ardor clicky active (so just Sup Pot 6):

Enhancement/item factor: +40% Cleric Life Magic 4, +50% Sup Pot 6 = x1.9
Metamagic factor: +50% Empower Healing = x1.5
Predicted healing amount: 150 x 1.9 x 1.5 = 427.5
Observed healing amount (on myself, I wear no Healing Amp) - 427.

[Valakai]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(8 Paladin \ 12 Monk)
Hit Points: 283
Spell Points: 72
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 10 12
Charisma 14 17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 24
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 5 25
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 3
Heal 0 1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 2 3
Jump 3 6
Listen 0 1
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 0 1
Swim 3 5
Tumble 4 4
Use Magic Device 3 13.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I




How do you think a paladin 8/monk 12 variant would work? Been toying with this idea for a bit after I heard the LS could be used while centered. Only have the 32 pointer too. :(
Do metas work with the monk finishers. Like if I had maximise would that be of any use there? Oh and the enhancements are easy to maneuver. Forgot to add hunter of the dead there for example...
First idea was to go Kensai I and Ninja Spy2...

[xEthreal]

I have been thinking about this build and i was wondering how a 14pally/6monk build would work.

You would have access to the holy sword ability so you would not necessarily need MinII's and you could focus your resources on the Tiple positive Longswords.

[LunaCee]

Meta-magic doesn't work with ki finishers... at least not anymore.

And you only need ONE triple positive LS... because you can only have a single gear source of any given X% of healing amplification. Two 30% heal amp weapons is the same as having one... except you spent the resources for two of them.

As for the 12/8 monkadin... well... dunno. I'd wait until we know more about Shintao II before seriously planning it.

And the 14/6 pally with monk splash would lose the 2nd tier of monk heal amp.

[Valakai]

Thanks for the info. Got to wait and see I guess. Have quite a few ideas I would like to try out with the new monk chances...mutts mostly. ;)

[Jamma]

Healing Ki:
10d4 = 25 average.
+40% Paladin Devotion IV = 35
+75% Superior Ardor 1 potion = 53.75
53.75 multiplied by 4.01 = 215.5 average healing.


I didn't think Devotion and Ardor stacked with each other.

[DemonMage]

Enhancement + item always stack for spells.

[dkyle]

And the 14/6 pally with monk splash would lose the 2nd tier of monk heal amp.

So 10% less healing, but a little less than 10% more damage (Zeal vs 1d6 SA; pretty sure Zeal wins), and free raid weapons (Holy Sword). Seems like a good tradeoff to me. Now if only LR+3 wasn't so expensive, I'd consider respecing my Pali when update 5 comes out. Of course, if I TR him, that's 5% healing amp...

[Valakai]

I thought the the ki healing was supposed to be based on monk levels not character levels? Hope that is working as intended because if they "fix" that your healing from ki will be hit pretty awful.

[Jasam01]

How much healing would you be losing from going unarmed?

If it's losable, it would really be worth doing some comparisions for what you can get by going unarmed(+free feat) instead.

The +unarmed speed tends to pull out ahead more often then not even with the smaller crit range. It would require someone to 'do the math' though.

I only really bring it up after looking at the spreadsheet in the monk forum, which shows longswords coming up short then unarmed. And other builds that are doing well with it. It's one of these things where 'seems to favour' doesn't hold out over a few minutes of actual fighting.

[DemonMage]

This builds unarmed die is only 1d8, which is the same as longsword (greensteel is 1d10), so you're trading 10% attack speed for 5% crit, once you've got greensteel you're also losing 1 average damage. You're also losing 30% healing amp, which due to the way amp stacks you're dropping down to 300%~ healing amp. That's a significant loss for little to no gain.

[Caprice]

Does the Paladin TR +5% on incoming healing stack with the other healing amps here?

I know the OP has Monk TRs and is getting +damage from that, but I was thinking about what TRs one would hypothetically choose to min-max the build concept.

[sigtrent]

I'm thinking of adding the longsword action to my champion build as well. I'd be dropping dodge and (empower healing?) for it. I already use kopeshs (no healing ki) as a dps technique and switch from those to fists. Longsword would be kind of like the "middle way" somewhere between maximum DPS and maximum self sufficiency.

[Jasam01]

This builds unarmed die is only 1d8, which is the same as longsword (greensteel is 1d10), so you're trading 10% attack speed for 5% crit, once you've got greensteel you're also losing 1 average damage. You're also losing 30% healing amp, which due to the way amp stacks you're dropping down to 300%~ healing amp. That's a significant loss for little to no gain.


If it's down the the healing amp loss I wouldn't bother even running the actual numbers.

But it wouldn't be suprising if there was a larger gain then you would expect, it wouldn't be the first time unarmed has come out on top. If I recall correctly there was that build with mnk 1 splash that still managed to come out top with unarmed. If the loss of haling amp is too great though, it's a wasted thought tbh ^^'

[Resilian]

Ignoring the Placeholder feats/enhancements and the order that anything is in..how does this look for a 32pt. build version of it for pre-5? It leaves 6 AP left for Fist of Life and Shintao Monk I, and Toughness switched with Whirling Steel Strike post mod 5.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Nishida Solar
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 177
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 15 22 24
Dexterity 15 17 18
Constitution 12 14 14
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 12 14 14
Charisma 14 16 17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8 8
Bluff 3 3 3
Concentration 1 2 2
Diplomacy 3 3 3
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 7 22 22
Heal 1 2 2
Hide 6 8 8
Intimidate 3 3 3
Jump 6 11 11
Listen 1 2 2
Move Silently 6 8 8
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 0 1 1
Spot 5 9 9
Swim 6 11 11
Tumble 6 8 8
Use Magic Device 7 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Luck of Heroes
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II




Side question -- As I'll be using this build to level my character from 1..what if anything should take priority in terms of what to pick first for better leveling experience (enhancements and/or feats)

[Darkrok]

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly with the DT'd armor's healing amp, even though it's the same item it counts as two different 'sources' of amp and as such are multiplied separately?

[SolarDawning]

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly with the DT'd armor's healing amp, even though it's the same item it counts as two different 'sources' of amp and as such are multiplied separately?

Correct. The 10% and 20% multiply together, like all other sources of healing amplification.

[Darkrok]

Correct. The 10% and 20% multiply together, like all other sources of healing amplification.

Outstanding! Thanks!

[Darkrok]

Next question...

With intimidate as a rogue skill and the ridiculous levels of healing amp here would it be worthwhile to get intimidate? I didn't really like trying for rogue skills with this few skill points but it seems like you'd be non-squishy enough to pull this off. The saves would be there. I'd think you'd have at least a decent ac (though I could be wrong...didn't really check). And I think you could get a decent amount of hp's as well.

Thoughts on running this as an intimitank?

[SolarDawning]

Next question...

With intimidate as a rogue skill and the ridiculous levels of healing amp here would it be worthwhile to get intimidate? I didn't really like trying for rogue skills with this few skill points but it seems like you'd be non-squishy enough to pull this off. The saves would be there. I'd think you'd have at least a decent ac (though I could be wrong...didn't really check). And I think you could get a decent amount of hp's as well.

Thoughts on running this as an intimitank?

It's possible, but I won't try it. I just don't like intimitanking on principle. In practice, I find it worse than useless- bosses act all wonky for a few seconds when coming off intimidate, or if the tank fails a check, the boss goes crazy after some of the DPS instead. I saw a ToD wipe recently on Horoth, because the intimitank lost him, and then he went running across the room to go beat at the melee's on Suulo instead.

It's much easier just to have a frenzied berserker barbarian do the tanking in any situation.

[Darkrok]

It's possible, but I won't try it. I just don't like intimitanking on principle. In practice, I find it worse than useless- bosses act all wonky for a few seconds when coming off intimidate, or if the tank fails a check, the boss goes crazy after some of the DPS instead. I saw a ToD wipe recently on Horoth, because the intimitank lost him, and then he went running across the room to go beat at the melee's on Suulo instead.

It's much easier just to have a frenzied berserker barbarian do the tanking in any situation.

I was thinking more of stuff like Orthons/Devils in VoD and general leveling/trash purposes. I know I enjoy the not getting hit part of having an intimitank around. :)

That said, I agree with you that I'd rather have the frenzied berserker tanking the bosses...I'm not going to peel off of that and don't have to worry about them rolling a 1 for an intimidate.

All that said I've never actually played an intimitank past level 4 so I'm not sure how well it works as you level or in raids on trash.

[Jomax]

Was curious to get some thoughts on taking favored soul levels instead of paladin levels.

Favored Soul Life Magic IV would equal Paladin's Devotion IV. Loss in healing amp would be the 20% from Hunter of the Dead II.

Favored Soul would get you longsword proficiency and some minor longsword enhancements. I guess it would come down to whether the additional spell points and spells like blade barrier would outweigh the paladin benefits of mainly smites, divine sacrifice, and divine might.

Thanks

[Darkrok]

Was curious to get some thoughts on taking favored soul levels instead of paladin levels.

Favored Soul Life Magic IV would equal Paladin's Devotion IV. Loss in healing amp would be the 20% from Hunter of the Dead II.

Favored Soul would get you longsword proficiency and some minor longsword enhancements. I guess it would come down to whether the additional spell points and spells like blade barrier would outweigh the paladin benefits of mainly smites, divine sacrifice, and divine might.

Thanks

The big thing with the healing amp hitting 400%+ is that you get another tier of curse of healing. Not to mention the fact that with the way healing amp works the more you get the more significant more becomes. That 20% you give up is the difference between ~330% healing amp and ~400% healing amp.

[sigtrent]

With intimidate as a rogue skill and the ridiculous levels of healing amp here would it be worthwhile to get intimidate? I didn't really like trying for rogue skills with this few skill points but it seems like you'd be non-squishy enough to pull this off. The saves would be there. I'd think you'd have at least a decent ac (though I could be wrong...didn't really check). And I think you could get a decent amount of hp's as well.

Thoughts on running this as an intimitank?

My version of the phoenix is an intim(psudo)tank. I have full intim and decent potential AC (CE, tower shields etc...). I say psudo because compared to a full defender both my AC and my itim is sub-par. I don't tank the bosses in raids, but I do tank some mobs and I use intim to control agro for the party. Hound got away from you... I can go fetch him. Need to separate critters in vale? No sweat I can pinpoint one and keep him busy. Running with a 150 hp rogue that likes to pull agro like mad? I can play tank and keep him out of trouble till the last fight. (and actually let him be effective at sneak attacking). It works though walls and doors, its easy to fire off, its just a really handy skill to have if you can work it into a build.

[Valakai]

Really like this build a lot but I think you should attach a disclaimer to it:

From Compendium:
Healing Ki I
10 Ki. Prep: pos pos pos
You heal all nearby allies for 1d4 plus 1d4 per two monk levels. (Does not harm undead foes)

I know at the moment its working at full character level instead of monk but if/when they fix it the healing drops to 4d4 base + amps. :(

I'm not saying this to jinx it or that I would want them to change it but just to warn people who roll this that it is fully possible that it will be "fixed" in the future.

[Darkrok]

My version of the phoenix is an intim(psudo)tank. I have full intim and decent potential AC (CE, tower shields etc...). I say psudo because compared to a full defender both my AC and my itim is sub-par. I don't tank the bosses in raids, but I do tank some mobs and I use intim to control agro for the party. Hound got away from you... I can go fetch him. Need to separate critters in vale? No sweat I can pinpoint one and keep him busy. Running with a 150 hp rogue that likes to pull agro like mad? I can play tank and keep him out of trouble till the last fight. (and actually let him be effective at sneak attacking). It works though walls and doors, its easy to fire off, its just a really handy skill to have if you can work it into a build.

Outstanding...that's exactly what I was looking to have. I'm not looking to be the tank with this guy. I'm just looking to be able to hit the intimidate button while running through quests or doing trash in raids to make things go more smoothly all around.

[Darkrok]

I'm tempted to try this with kamas instead of long swords similar to the build that you used in the past. How much dps are you giving up using kamas over longswords? I know we're gaining 2-3 feats (depending on whether you take weapon focus bludgeoning or not) and getting improved crit earlier to boot. That's quite a bit of extra hp's, or more UMD, or combat expertise for turtling up, etc.

Also, I'd be tempted if I had enough mats to craft a 10/20/30 amp weapon (whether I go kama or longsword). This would be in addition to a more dps-oriented 30% amp weapon. This would open up the option to use a more defensive dragontouched weapon when turtling up on end-game stuff and would also open up a lot more healing amp earlier in the game than your dragontouched would become available (since the ml on the greensteel's several levels earlier than the dragontouched).

Love the build though! The synergy between HotD paladin, Shintao monk, and human is phenomenal!

[Darkrok]

The build listed in the first post will have 17 BAB at level 20 with longswords. With the way attack bonus is implemented in DDO, the only difference you will see between 17 and 20 is a minute (only noticeable when measured out amongst hundreds of swings) difference in attack speed. There's no "extra swing" like you would see in PnP. As for the actual hit bonus itself, you'll be able to keep Divine Favor running all the time. That, not to mention the attack bonus from sovereign host enhancements, weapon focus feat, and other buffs taken into consideration means that you'll have no problem hitting at high levels.

That said, if you don't want the extra damage or skills from rogue, and would rather have 23 more HP from toughness, go for it.

I just had something occur to me. I don't think you'll have a 17 BAB with longswords. I think you'll have 19.

My reasoning is this: flurry of blows is worded that you get it while centered. It then gives examples of what would uncenter you but it seems to be coded in such a way as that it's always active when you're centered. If I'm right on how they've coded it then as long as you have the feats to stay centered with longswords you'll still benefit from flurry of blows.

[Jasam01]

I'm tempted to try this with kamas instead of long swords similar to the build that you used in the past. How much dps are you giving up using kamas over longswords? I know we're gaining 2-3 feats (depending on whether you take weapon focus bludgeoning or not) and getting improved crit earlier to boot. That's quite a bit of extra hp's, or more UMD, or combat expertise for turtling up, etc.

Also, I'd be tempted if I had enough mats to craft a 10/20/30 amp weapon (whether I go kama or longsword). This would be in addition to a more dps-oriented 30% amp weapon. This would open up the option to use a more defensive dragontouched weapon when turtling up on end-game stuff and would also open up a lot more healing amp earlier in the game than your dragontouched would become available (since the ml on the greensteel's several levels earlier than the dragontouched).

Love the build though! The synergy between HotD paladin, Shintao monk, and human is phenomenal!

The way I see it, is are those extra feats that WSS requires costing more then the +base damage on longswords. I'm not sure if there is an alternitive to impove it or not.

[Asymetric_War]

I've got a lvl 17 human longsword-using paladin that I had planned to go defender and tank build with and got bored so i reincarnated to be palamonk when i heard monks would get longsword, which has put me right at the end game with a similar build.

she's currently 14/3 pala/monk and my end build will be 14/6 paladin monk. I'd recommend that folks seriously consider that as an alternative for one simple reason: Zeal. self-casting 10% stacks-with-everything attack speed boost. in wind stance II with g2wf and zeal the attack speed is amazing. being able to summon her own weapons is pretty cool too.

Also, comparing hotd II to kotc I've found that the healing bump for hotd is barely noticeable. and it's kind of a pain because it requires a bunch of non-essential enhancement points on a build that's already very short on enhancement points. as soon as my 3-day timer is up I'm respeccing back to kotc for more damage.

just my 2 cents. cheers!

[DarkFlash]

...-Longswords: Main Hand: Greensteel Min II or Lit II. Off Hand: Greensteel triple positive (Ideal would be Holy/Good Burst/30% Healing Amp)...

Better healing:
-Main hand: GS Triple positive longsword
-Off hand: Dream Edge kama (Vampirism x 400% healing amp = *drools*)

[sigtrent]

Also, comparing hotd II to kotc I've found that the healing bump for hotd is barely noticeable. and it's kind of a pain because it requires a bunch of non-essential enhancement points on a build that's already very short on enhancement points. as soon as my 3-day timer is up I'm respeccing back to kotc for more damage.


Healing amplification is only a big deal if you have a lot of it and you combine it with other effects like devotion and such. It takes a lot of investment but it pays off in the end. Once you go down that path you end up pretty committed to it.

I like that all of the paladin enhancements are pretty decent. Personally I like the HOTD for its immunities and the ghost touch thing. Being able to stand solo against an beholder and more or less ignore everything it throws at you is great stuff. Against an undead beholder its wonderful. Of course 3d6 damage is nothing to scoff at and the defender is really great as well.

Its pretty easy to take a paladin and make a pretty different character by simply re-speccing your enhancements from offence to defense to utility. I think almost more than any other class the got the enhancements on paladin spot on.

[Tobril]

I just had something occur to me. I don't think you'll have a 17 BAB with longswords. I think you'll have 19.

My reasoning is this: flurry of blows is worded that you get it while centered. It then gives examples of what would uncenter you but it seems to be coded in such a way as that it's always active when you're centered. If I'm right on how they've coded it then as long as you have the feats to stay centered with longswords you'll still benefit from flurry of blows.

This is likely true.

Presuming the equipment window stats are correct, my 16/2/2 pal/monk/thief has a 19 BAB when using handwraps, 18 otherwise.

It seems like the game takes your regular BAB and adds the extra bit that a centered monk gains. (provided you are centered)

[wolfy42]

Just curious but can't you use a kama for the extra healing when needed (when using your l/l/l finishing move) and then fight with H2H the rest of the time?

H2H is higher damage I'm pretty sure especially against 50% or higher fort enemies or crit immune enemies. The full strength bonus to both hands and faster base attack speed is hard to beat with just a slightly larger crit range.

That would also free up quite a few feats. No need for OTWF (Even when using kama's they are both small) and no need for the longsword feats.

[Tobril]

Just curious but can't you use a kama for the extra healing when needed (when using your l/l/l finishing move) and then fight with H2H the rest of the time?

H2H is higher damage I'm pretty sure especially against 50% or higher fort enemies or crit immune enemies. The full strength bonus to both hands and faster base attack speed is hard to beat with just a slightly larger crit range.

That would also free up quite a few feats. No need for OTWF (Even when using kama's they are both small) and no need for the longsword feats.

Nope.

Changing equipment messes up both the build-up to a finisher and an already prepped finisher.

[sirdanile]

What weapons would you be using while leveling? I'm thinking handwraps til level 6 at that point you switch to the longsword from threnal and a good off hand kama, vorpal/paralyzing longsword/kamas at 10 and switch to dual longswords at 12?

[Doganpc]

I got a curiosity. Since I need a break from playing rogue, what if I switched that Rogue level for a level of Fighter... 1 extra combat feat, possibly higher BAB...

Dogan
Wouldn't have to take it at level 1

[manumase]

for a 32 pointer how would this work?
15 str
15 dex
12 con
10 int
12 wis
14 char

or

16 str
15 dex
12 con
10 int
10 wis
14 char

[Zyklon]

Combat Expertise has a req of 13 INT.

I think it's kind of a poor choice in this build since it will be stripped everytime you do a heal finisher.

Finishers no longer take you out of CE (coming in U5).

-

[AylinIsAwesome]

for a 32 pointer how would this work?
15 str
15 dex
12 con
10 int
12 wis
14 char

or

16 str
15 dex
12 con
10 int
10 wis
14 char

When I did it I went 16/15/14/10/8/14. WIS just helps with SP (but you'll get less than any SP item would give you), AC (not an AC build), and more Will save (already get CHA to saves), making it the clear dumpstat to me.

I wouldn't drop the CON below 14.

[LeLoric]

Nice build solar. I drew up a similar 14pally/6monk the other day. Having access to zeal and holy sword was the kicker for me. Swapping to air stance and getting 15% double strike on all your smites/sacrifices is great for dps especially when grouped with a healer in raids.

For any of these builds on epic content you can go with earthgrab longswords once the mob is grabbed this build has exalted smite/shintao smite/divine sacrifice/fists of iron it can cycle through for awesome crit numbers taking down those big hp mobs really fast.

The worst thing about these builds though is the ap costs. It really is hard to fit in all the things you'd want.

[sigtrent]

The worst thing about these builds though is the ap costs. It really is hard to fit in all the things you'd want.

Absolutely, there are so many good choices and healing amp is really expensive.

I re-spec mine as I gear up trying to shed any stat bonuses that are giving me odd numbers so I can get a tad more of some other sort of enhancement. I could easily spend another 30AP on my Phoenix Champion build, all of it on really good benefits for the build like more Toughness, Bulwark of Good and so on.

[LeLoric]

Absolutely, there are so many good choices and healing amp is really expensive.

I re-spec mine as I gear up trying to shed any stat bonuses that are giving me odd numbers so I can get a tad more of some other sort of enhancement. I could easily spend another 30AP on my Phoenix Champion build, all of it on really good benefits for the build like more Toughness, Bulwark of Good and so on.

Yep I scrapped ac altogether on mine because of the following.

1. Build Points. I couldn't get the stat points to work out initially without a +3 int and +3 dex tome. This build is one of the most stat intensive builds I've seen. Just to qualify for everything I wanted it takes 17 base dex 16 base cha 11 base int to avoid must have +3 tomes if going with combat expertise. That and you also want as much str and con as possible and wisdom is still relevant.

2. AP costs. No way could I fit in bulwark of good. Theres still a good 15 points of stuff I'd want first before I starting spending on bulwark. It would still be nice to have even if not going ac just to help out those party members who have but it just doesn't fit.

3. Gear. Icy's are most likely out as the best way to get the 10% and 20% amp is on DT. This means for ac you'd want chaosguardes but that slot is filled by the sentinels bracers most of the time. At this point you are down too much ac for me to justifying fitiign in other stuff (chattering ring +4 insight etc.) and those spots are then better used for dps.

Besides who needs ac when you can just self heal any of the damge almost indefinitely

[Asymetric_War]

One problem with this build is that HotD healing amp DOES NOT stack with the other healing amp enhancements.

I took my 14/6 palamonk and specced her for hotd with human healing amp II and monk healing amp 1 and the leviks bracers. With that setup my cure medium healed me for an average of 49-52 a pop. I then took the exact same toon with the exact same gear and switched her to kotc II and my cure medium healed me for the exact same amount: 49-52.

This could be a bug and it could be me missing something obvious but I doubt it.

That said, at 14/6 Boudicca does very very solid dps with dual longswords and once u5 comes out she'll still be very strong in the self-healing department. self-healing from fists of light = lots and lots of divine sacrifice and zeal + wind stance will boost her already ridiculous attack speed even higher. So the build is still worthwhile, it's just not as much healing amp as we might wish for.

[thxkross11]

and zeal + wind stance will boost her already ridiculous attack speed even higher.

I am a little confused Asymetric_War (perhaps confused is not the right word, maybe puzzled would be better) due to what I read in the update notes concerning zeal adding to doublestrike chances and no longer adding attack speed. Does wind stance still increase attack speed?

Is there something I didn't comprehend that you did or did I just misunderstand what you are saying? If this post seems condescending, just know that I did not intend it to be. I am working on something similiar to this build and just want to make sure I got all my facts straight is all.

[Asymetric_War]

I am a little confused Asymetric_War (perhaps confused is not the right word, maybe puzzled would be better) due to what I read in the update notes concerning zeal adding to doublestrike chances and no longer adding attack speed. Does wind stance still increase attack speed?

Is there something I didn't comprehend that you did or did I just misunderstand what you are saying? If this post seems condescending, just know that I did not intend it to be. I am working on something similiar to this build and just want to make sure I got all my facts straight is all.

wind stance adds less attack speed then it used too but still does add speed. rank II also adds a small doublestrike chance that stacks with the much larger doublestrike chance from zeal. in any case doublestrike chances still translate to additional attacks and thus should be treated as an attack speed boost. the mechanic for how those extra attacks happens is a bit different and it's only on your main hand but it's still extra attacks.

[JackTekila]

One problem with this build is that HotD healing amp DOES NOT stack with the other healing amp enhancements.

I took my 14/6 palamonk and specced her for hotd with human healing amp II and monk healing amp 1 and the leviks bracers. With that setup my cure medium healed me for an average of 49-52 a pop. I then took the exact same toon with the exact same gear and switched her to kotc II and my cure medium healed me for the exact same amount: 49-52.

This could be a bug and it could be me missing something obvious but I doubt it.

That said, at 14/6 Boudicca does very very solid dps with dual longswords and once u5 comes out she'll still be very strong in the self-healing department. self-healing from fists of light = lots and lots of divine sacrifice and zeal + wind stance will boost her already ridiculous attack speed even higher. So the build is still worthwhile, it's just not as much healing amp as we might wish for.

Are you sure it's not stacking with the enhacements? It could be not stacking with the bracer.

As far as understood, the idea is to stay on fire stance because of the increased ki gen, a little more damage and (most important) the healing amp from Jidz-Tet'ka. And you need monk 7 to get Improved Recovery II.

[Valindria]

One problem with this build is that HotD healing amp DOES NOT stack with the other healing amp enhancements.

I took my 14/6 palamonk and specced her for hotd with human healing amp II and monk healing amp 1 and the leviks bracers. With that setup my cure medium healed me for an average of 49-52 a pop. I then took the exact same toon with the exact same gear and switched her to kotc II and my cure medium healed me for the exact same amount: 49-52.

This could be a bug and it could be me missing something obvious but I doubt it.



A better test would be Lay on Hands since you can calculate what it will heal for each time.

[Dragon-Kin]

A better test would be Lay on Hands since you can calculate what it will heal for each time.

This is a good idea - is anyone testing LoH for the healing amp stack? Would be great to know what actually will stack now we have U5 implimented...

My build is not high enough, if someone has one of proper level please post what actually stacks on this build plz.

[Alintalkin]

@Asymetric_War

I am sorry but I am more willing to believe that the first post on the third page of the original build thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238298&page=3 which Solar said confirmed her numbers, that included screen shots, are more accurate then a person saying they tested it with cure moderate wands. Sorry you will have to get more solid evidence.

Edit: You could still be right, for all we know you found a new bug that happened during U5 but I would prefer a screenshot that shows the actual proof of such.

[underworldx1x]

Could one of the experts modify this to get the new cleric prestige. :) This would give additional self healing from the aura. It would get pretty high form the healing amp. Im thinking maybe 10 pal/6cle/3monk and 1 more in im not sure what else.

[Quijonsith]

A better test would be Lay on Hands since you can calculate what it will heal for each time.

I can confirm on my my 2/6/12 fighter/pali/monk intimitank that HotD's healing amp stacks. I have compared the math of the healing amp I have with the results of my lay on hands.

In wind stance I currently have:
10% HotD
10% GS Kama
20% GS Kama
30% Human
30% Monk
1.1*1.1*1.2*1.3*1.3=245%

6 levels of Pali and 22 cha gives me a LoH on non healing amp fleshies of 96hp. It hits me for 235hp. 2.45*96=235hp.

[sigtrent]

One problem with this build is that HotD healing amp DOES NOT stack with the other healing amp enhancements.

I just tested with Divine Soverignty which is a consistent 1000pt heal

I have Human 3, Monk 1, 10 dragon touch, 20 TOD ring, 30 greensteel and 20 HOTD 2
(I didn't have my bracers on)

I got 2971

Doing the standard calcs I should get 2944 (pretty close)

My calcs say without HOTD stacking I should get 2453

So far as I can see, it stacks.

[kaobang]

what do you think of swapping 12 paly to 12 ranger ?

loss:
-20% healing amp hotd (401% -> 325%)
- cha saves
- LOH
- disease / fear immunities
- lvl drain immunity and ghost attack
- 24 hp (1d10 to d8)

gain:
manyshot
3 fav enemy (+6 dmg, +3 enh)
100/100 2wf instead of 100/80 with paly
+1 att (tempest II)

paly dmg add:
3 divine favor
4 divine might II
----------
7
+ smite
+ 5d6 divine sacrifice II

ranger dmg add:
3 ram
6 favored enemy
3 enh favored enemy
-----
12

does the loss in heal/survivability is balance by the +20% on off hand ?

[SzassTamn]

Does anyone know if empower healing affects healing ki or curse of healing? I have my doubts but that could be very powerful on this build.

[SolarDawning]

Does anyone know if empower healing affects healing ki or curse of healing? I have my doubts but that could be very powerful on this build.

Metamagics do not affect Healing Ki, and nothing save for healing amplification affects Curse of Healing.

[Darkrok]

I just have to say that this build standing beside a clonk radiant servant would be a really, really sick group now. :)

[Rhev]

I have some screenshots of a similar build, but don't use the forums enough to know how to post them. If someone could explain how I'll post some of the results. The build I use was designed by a friend prior to this post, but is a similar build. I hit 425% healing amp atm. I get 4 or 8 back from healing curse, 8 from jerky, and when I use them 4 per hit off of Dream Edge. Also, the monk healing finisher heals me usually over 200 closer to the 250 mark. I'm only 19, but it can give an example of what a healing amp build can do. I do use the long swords like said before it's a godsend to the build. I don't have screenies of what ppl have healed me for but my record is a crit heal for 6500 and average heal is 2200 I believe.

[Patsaan]

I have some screenshots of a similar build, but don't use the forums enough to know how to post them. If someone could explain how I'll post some of the results. The build I use was designed by a friend prior to this post, but is a similar build. I hit 425% healing amp atm. I get 4 or 8 back from healing curse, 8 from jerky, and when I use them 4 per hit off of Dream Edge. Also, the monk healing finisher heals me usually over 200 closer to the 250 mark. I'm only 19, but it can give an example of what a healing amp build can do. I do use the long swords like said before it's a godsend to the build. I don't have screenies of what ppl have healed me for but my record is a crit heal for 6500 and average heal is 2200 I believe.

now this build and those screenshots would be interesting to see.

[Rhev]

Lets see if I linked these right.

This is the healing curse.
http://img203.imageshack.us/f/screenshot00016m.jpg/

Monk healing chain finisher
http://img404.imageshack.us/f/screenshot00015o.jpg/

The healing curse numbers still rolling by after combat
http://img821.imageshack.us/f/screenshot00009.jpg/

Another of the healing chain finisher
http://img52.imageshack.us/f/screenshot00008l.jpg/

I'll try get other screenies of some other aspects. Also I'll learn how to link properly since I'm sure I did this wrong.

[wolff]

So is this build not worth going for since the Sintao changes didn't hit live (afaik)?

What does going PrE currently get you on live, am I just missing the big heal yourself spell made cheaper?

[Diyon]

So is this build not worth going for since the Sintao changes didn't hit live (afaik)?

What does going PrE currently get you on live, am I just missing the big heal yourself spell made cheaper?

This build is still fine without the Pfe effect working in the light chain, as the smite (if you choose to use it) can still make it quicker occasionally. The build can also be pretty easily modified to remove Shintao from it. Also, the devs said its supposed to be working in the light chain so it will be fixed at some point.

[sirgog]

I just have to say that this build standing beside a clonk radiant servant would be a really, really sick group now. :)

I think they could duo Shroud easily with minimal or no resources (except possibly for troubles in part 5 when the Lieutenants first spawn, the Gnoll could wipe them if they fail critical saves). The Clonk would need to be an AC clonk, however.

[Dragon-Kin]

I can confirm on my my 2/6/12 fighter/pali/monk intimitank that HotD's healing amp stacks. I have compared the math of the healing amp I have with the results of my lay on hands.

In wind stance I currently have:
10% HotD
10% GS Kama
20% GS Kama
30% Human
30% Monk
1.1*1.1*1.2*1.3*1.3=245%

6 levels of Pali and 22 cha gives me a LoH on non healing amp fleshies of 96hp. It hits me for 235hp. 2.45*96=235hp.

Thanks for the check - Heal Amp On!!!!

[Mister_Peace]

At guild level 22, the house jorasco healer gives 10% heal amp that stacks. Buff lasts for 1 hour.

Edit:
human 30
monk 10
hotd 20
fire change 25
divine glory 10

My phoenix's heal amp is at 2.3595 (with above) and LOH with a base of 110, which should heal her for 2.59545
Ingame it heals for 261.

[Darksolar]

What do you think of this build as a Solar build to complement this build and be strong in it's own right, It has weaker melee as I decided to drop Divine Might in favor of using them for healing burst.
I would love to get a group of people playing solar builds or even a human only guild taking advantage of healing enhancements and equipment even if they don't heal themselves.
If anyone has any interest on starting a group or alt guild on kyber send me a message.
oh and please give feedback on this version.

To Solar Dawning I think you should start a thread on the build forums with the Solar builds that have been made as you seem to be the one who really spurned this idea to a larger following and creativity from us other builders who love the idea of self healing melee capable builds.

So far I am playing a ranger 12/7monk/1 rogue build and it's a lot of fun to play and I have started the cleric version for something to play when i need a little change.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 3 Monk \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 925
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 11
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 24
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 14 20
Charisma 12 14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 16
Bluff 1 2
Concentration 6 26
Diplomacy 1 2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 2
Heal 2 7
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 1 2
Jump 5 13
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 2 5
Swim 2 7
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 3 13

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Level 5 (Cleric)
Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 7 (Cleric)
Level 8 (Cleric)
Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10 (Cleric)
Level 11 (Cleric)
Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 13 (Cleric)
Level 14 (Cleric)
Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Cleric)
Level 17 (Cleric)
Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Level 19 (Cleric)
Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Xleniki]

How important is concentration to the build? I know we're constantly using ki, but we're also constantly in fire stance, which means we're generating ki pretty fast as it is. (I'm just trying to map out skills/enhancements.)

[Darksolar]

How important is concentration to the build? I know we're constantly using ki, but we're also constantly in fire stance, which means we're generating ki pretty fast as it is. (I'm just trying to map out skills/enhancements.)

you want at least 30 concentration total mod...
5 water strike 10 light 5 water strike 10 aligning the heavens (30) to use this chain so when you walk into a quest or rest you can buff 25% cheaper and your friends can buff 25% cheaper trust me they will thank you.

so figure out how to get to 30 with items ranks and con mod
if you did this build con mod is 6 so 24 if you use the shinto set its 15 so need 9 ranks but id say 10-15 is where you should be.

[Jamma]

So has anyone actually used this build with the Shintao monk Pre? My understanding was that the Protection from Evil ki strike was not working as a Light move, and therefore you wouldn't actually be able to spam healing ki any faster than before.

I would like confirmation on this before I waste a feat slot on a feat utterly useless for this build (Stunning Fist).

[Jamma]

[I]
Level 1, Human Bonus Feat: Luck of Heroes (Shintao Monk Prerequisite)
Level 1, Rogue: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 2, Monk Bonus Feat: Stunning Fist (Shintao Monk Prerequisite)
Level 3, Paladin: Weapon Focus: Slashing (Whirling Steel Strike Prerequisite)
Level 4, Monk Bonus Feat: Toughness
Level 5, Monk: Path of Harmonious Balance
Level 6, Paladin: Whirling Steel Strike
Level 7, Paladin:
Level 8, Paladin:
Level 9, Paladin: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10, Paladin:
Level 11, Paladin:
Level 12, Paladin: Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 13, Monk:
Level 14, Paladin:
Level 15, Paladin: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 16, Paladin:
Level 17, Paladin:
Level 18, Monk: Improved Critical: Slashing
Level 19, Monk Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Level 20, Monk:




I love the idea of the build (except I wouldn't normally touch Shintao Monk till they fix it), but I don't particularly like the feat progression, as the first two feats aren't needed till the very end of the build. They're the pre's for Shintao Monk I, which can't be realized till level 19. Also, two of the best mid-level feats, Improved Critical and Power Attack, are pushed back to higher levels where they frequently get dropped (MinII greensteel makes IC somewhat redundant, power attack turned off for high level content, not needed for low level content due to power of weaponry). Accordingly, I revised the progression for my character to:


Level 1, Human Bonus Feat: Oversized Two Weapon fighting
Level 1, Rogue: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 2, Monk Bonus Feat: Toughness
Level 3, Paladin: Weapon Focus: Slashing (Whirling Steel Strike Prerequisite)
Level 4, Monk Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Level 5, Monk: Path of Harmonious Balance
Level 6, Paladin: Whirling Steel Strike
Level 7, Paladin:
Level 8, Paladin:
Level 9, Paladin: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10, Paladin:
Level 11, Paladin:
Level 12, Paladin: Improved Critical: Slashing
Level 13, Monk:
Level 14, Paladin:
Level 15, Paladin: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 16, Paladin:
Level 17, Paladin:
Level 18, Monk: Luck of Heroes (for Shintao) or Combat Expertise (if Shintao not fixed by the time I get here, requires +2 INT tome and Wis dropped to 11, INT raised to 11)
Level 19, Monk Bonus Feat: Stunning Fist (for Shintao) or Improved Trip (if shint... blah blah blah)
Level 20, Monk:

After doing some Amrath and Epic content, I'm leery of having characters that can't do some form of crowd control. Every little bit helps. Hence the CE+IT. But you can substitute other stuff in here at that point.

[windslow]

Sorry for the noob question, but I've been looking to your build, which I like a lot, and I have two question:

1) Any way to change Human for Halfing? And use Dragonmarks and Halflign Enchancments?

2) And a viable 32Pts build?

Thx.

[Quijonsith]

Sorry for the noob question, but I've been looking to your build, which I like a lot, and I have two question:

1) Any way to change Human for Halfing? And use Dragonmarks and Halflign Enchancments?

2) And a viable 32Pts build?

Thx.

The point to being human is the 30% healing amp and extra feat. This build is very strict on the feat requirements so I couldn't see fitting in all 3 dragon marks for a halflling and even with this build's healing amp if you can't get the 3rd dragon mark it's pointless to have any of them with halfling, especially if you are missing 30% of your incoming healing.

[Jamma]

Sorry for the noob question, but I've been looking to your build, which I like a lot, and I have two question:

1) Any way to change Human for Halfing? And use Dragonmarks and Halflign Enchancments?

2) And a viable 32Pts build?

Thx.

I dropped CON to 12, INT to 9 and WIS to 11. With fairly common +2 tomes (or the supreme tome from the DDO store), that will still allow you to obtain the level 3 paladin spells, and you lose out on 23 skill points, but the base tenet of the build remains. The drop to CON costs you 22 HP at level 20. But this build uses all your stats, so some sacrifice has to be made to fit it all in on a 32 point build. I didn't drop strength, as I see the +1 to damage and ToHit as more valuable than 23 skill points.

so (possible 32 point build):
16 Strength
15 Dexterity (With a +2 tome, this meets the requirement to take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
12 Constitution
11 Wisdom (with +2 tome, allows you to obtain level 3 paladin spells; I'm not that familiar with the stat limits on spell levels, enhancements/items might work as well)
9 Intelligence (With a +2 tome, this will allow for the use of Silver Flame favor healing potions without self-incapacitation from ability score damage.)
14 Charisma (With a +2 tome, this will allow for Paladin Divine Might II)

If you prefer the skill points:
15 Strength
15 Dexterity (With a +2 tome, this meets the requirement to take Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
12 Constitution
12 Wisdom
10 Intelligence (With a tome, this will allow for the use of Silver Flame favor healing potions without self-incapacitation from ability score damage.)
14 Charisma (With a +2 tome, this will allow for Paladin Divine Might II)

[glowbug]

So i have a silly question,

If you took 1 level of cleric instead of rogue does the Empower Healing feat add to curse of healing or Finisher ... i assume it would do nothing for the Curse honestly but if it puts the finisher over 300 hps... of course we might be talking overkill at that point anyways...

P.S. its too bad really I tried to map out a radiant pheonix build but you cant take RS & HoTD at the same time because you need cleric improved turning and paladin improved turning which are mutually exclusive enhancements... which is what got me thinking about the empower healing (which DOES effect RS healing aura)

[Valindria]

So i have a silly question,

If you took 1 level of cleric instead of rogue does the Empower Healing feat add to curse of healing or Finisher ... i assume it would do nothing for the Curse honestly but if it puts the finisher over 300 hps... of course we might be talking overkill at that point anyways...

P.S. its too bad really I tried to map out a radiant pheonix build but you cant take RS & HoTD at the same time because you need cleric improved turning and paladin improved turning which are mutually exclusive enhancements... which is what got me thinking about the empower healing (which DOES effect RS healing aura)

Meta magic feats do not affect monk finishers.

Edit: You would be better off taking Favored Soul then Cleric (thats what I am doing with my HotD linked below). Gives you spell points off of CHA, better saves, etc.

[dogpig00]

keep in mind that this build will be dead once the healing ki bug is fixed: 1d4 + 1d4 per two *monk* levels.

[SolarDawning]

keep in mind that this build will be dead once the healing ki bug is fixed: 1d4 + 1d4 per two *monk* levels.

It's never been stated that this is a bug, or is anything but working as intended currently.

[dogpig00]

it is obviously an unrecognized bug since both in-game text and compendium state the numbers should be per monk levels

[EatSmart]

keep in mind that this build will be dead once the healing ki bug is fixed: 1d4 + 1d4 per two *monk* levels.

Well this build was put together before the radiant servant aura came out. Even if healing Ki gets rebalanced for multiclassed monks, its still got life in it.

[Xleniki]

Thoughts on this as a 32-pt build? Dropped Rogue for Fighter as I wouldn't be able to keep up the rogue skills, but I could probably be convinced to go back. Dropped Shintao because even once it's fixed its main benefit is faster availability of the Light finisher, as I understand it, and it takes up significant AP usage to get there. Note: I am also looking for Enhancement input.

Shortened build:
Base stats
STR: 16 (+ levelups)
DEX: 15
CON: 14
INT: 8
WIS: 10
CHA: 14
+2 All tome used at 7

Level: Class; feats
1: Monk; TWF, OTWF, Toughness
2: Fighter; WF:S
3: Paladin; WSS
4: Monk; PA
5: Monk; Path of Light
6: Paladin; Stunning Blow
7: Paladin
8: Paladin
9: Paladin; ITWF
10: Paladin
11: Paladin
12: Paladin; IC:S
13: Monk
14: Paladin
15: Paladin; GTWF
16: Paladin
17: Paladin
18: Monk; Luck of Heroes
19: Monk; Toughness
20: Monk

Enhancements
Fighter Haste I
Follower of the Sovereign Host
Human Adaptability Dexterity
Human Greater Adaptability Strength
Human Improved Recovery III
Way of the Clever Monkey II
Monk Improved Recovery II
Adept of Flame
Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Paladin Exalted Smite II
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Racial Toughness II
Paladin Devotion IV
Paladin Toughness I
Paladin Divine Might II
Paladin Extra Turning II
Paladin Improved Turning II


Full Build:

My Amp goes to 11

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 12 Paladin \ 7 Monk)
Hit Points: 340
Spell Points: 136
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 18
Will: 15

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 18
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 8 10 10
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 27 27
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 6 26 26
Diplomacy 2 3 3
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 2 3 5
Heal 0 1 1
Hide 2 4 4
Intimidate 2 3 3
Jump 7 14 14
Listen 0 1 1
Move Silently 2 4 4
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 0 0
Search -1 0 0
Spot 0 12 12
Swim 6 10 10
Tumble 3 5 5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Theodores]

i really love this concept of build but im not a super end game player yet (still pretty newb lol). so how would this build do without uber greensteel and DT and at low-mid levels?

and i think fire stance II is 3 str... maybe im wrong but you listed 2 lol...

anyway, great build, i think i love him only a bit less than my exploiter ;)

[Quijonsith]

and i think fire stance II is 3 str... maybe im wrong but you listed 2 lol...


Fire stance II is still 2 strength, but gets more ki on criticals than fire stance I. Fire stance III is 3 str, followed by stance IV gets 4 str.

[slimkj]

Unwittingly built something similar to this and a friend later pointed me here (nice build concept btw). Have a quick question - as I am 12 Mnk / 6 Pal and don't have HotD II, I am looking at more itemisation of HA to top up what I might be lacking (altho I have Human III, Monk III, HotD I, Jidz). Is there any reason why I shouldn't get 10/20/30 on the DT vestments? Unarmed as that's my preference (and 12 Mnk just begs for it) so also won't be getting any HA on a GS weapon, so figure as much as poss on the DT is key.

[Diyon]

Unwittingly built something similar to this and a friend later pointed me here (nice build concept btw). Have a quick question - as I am 12 Mnk / 6 Pal and don't have HotD II, I am looking at more itemisation of HA to top up what I might be lacking (altho I have Human III, Monk III, HotD I, Jidz). Is there any reason why I shouldn't get 10/20/30 on the DT vestments? Unarmed as that's my preference (and 12 Mnk just begs for it) so also won't be getting any HA on a GS weapon, so figure as much as poss on the DT is key.

You can't put 30 HA on DT. Only on GS atm (I think there are some gloves coming out in U6 that get it in the epic version though).

[slimkj]

Ahhh. *ahem* Sorry for the silly question then! :)

[Diyon]

Ahhh. *ahem* Sorry for the silly question then! :)

That being said, trying to get more HA isn't a bad thing. You can also always hope for GS handwraps. *sweeps off the cobwebs off the hope*

[Sillk]

So, taking the OP's build in a different direction, what kind of Healing could be done with the following:

Human - Cleric 13, Monk 7

You'd have a very survivable character with:
Human Improved Recovery III
Monk Improved Recovry III
Shintao Monk I (when it's fixed)
Cleric Life Magic IV
Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Cleric Prayer of Life III
Cleric Radiant Servant II

I think this build could be very survivable when you add in the Cleric self-buffing Divine Favor, Divine Power & Recitation along with Blade Barrier, and Heal.

I'm not sure if I'd use Greensteel or TOD rings, but I can decide that later.

[GoganTX]

How would the DPS be on that build though?

[Sillk]

How would the DPS be on that build though?

I've run a similar build to this (but had Tempest I, Monk 2, Cleric 12) running with Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, and stat damaging rapiers (no WOP's) and still had a lot of success. Once I think I had at least double the the next highest kill count in a guild VOD when I was watching it to see how he was doing.

I think I would use Kamas (instead of Longswords), or Handwraps with TOD rings, Finesse, Power Attack, and Extended Cleric Buffs. I think stat damagers until you pull your rings. You wouldn't be the main tank, but your AC could be fantastic, and you'd do well with Divine Favor, Divine Power, & Recitation along with the ring damage. With Banishing Fists, Vorpal Kamas, TOD Rings, practically unlimited healing, evasion, etc. you should be at least as good as any PUGGER, and you'd be in the thick of the fight, healing and contributing to DPS.

Just don't pretend to be the party's healer... at least until you know how well your finishers work.

[theb]

Of interest here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3133608#post3133608

My 15 paladin/3 monk/2 warrior has 259.72% healing. This is puzzling because 1.1 x 1.2 x 1.3 x 1.25 x 1.2=2.574. What is going on here?

10%=Monk
20%=HotD
30%=Human
25%=Bracers
20%=Grind Armor


I suspect (with NO proof whatsoever) that Hunter of the Dead 2 10% boost stacks multiplicatively with HotD1's boost, providing a combined 21% amp (not 20%). Fits your numbers well.

Is anyone else getting too high numbers? The best way to check is by getting a bunch of cure light wounds wands in the marketplace and using them on yourself. Write down how much you get healed for and average it out at the end. Twenty full wands for exactly 1000 cures should be enough.





































Just kidding! Duel someone and get the 10,000 point heal at the start, see what it hits you for. It's accurate to a further digit than unyielding sovereignty!

[Kothaufen]

I am a real monk noob and I have some questions why did you take undeadhunter and not knight of chalice?
And can someone give me an exactly enhancement guide?
I really have no clue what to take with this build but I want to give it a try

[Quijonsith]

I am a real monk noob and I have some questions why did you take undeadhunter and not knight of chalice?
And can someone give me an exactly enhancement guide?
I really have no clue what to take with this build but I want to give it a try

Hunter of the Dead gives stacking healing amp, which is the purpose of this build.

[ormsbygore]

First of all...I love the idea of this build and plan on making at least one variation myself.

I haven't read all 7 pages of replies but I think you missed one piece of Healing Amp Equipment, the Finger Necklace from Litany of the Dead(link at the bottom). It's a +10% Healing Amp Necklace. I plan on grinding for one before I TR my Monk into a SolarPhoenix(34 point build).

(link taken from the static loot thread)
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/FingerNecklace.jpg

[Dwarfo]

this build seems to be highly solo-able, and a friend to all healers, it is also funny to just cast random heal spells on them, seeing the huge numbers hover above their heads.

My record is 1011 with a cure light wounds :D

[Diyon]

this build seems to be highly solo-able, and a friend to all healers, it is also funny to just cast random heal spells on them, seeing the huge numbers hover above their heads.

My record is 1011 with a cure light wounds :D

Someone got a 900 with a CLW on my character recently. I think the record was a 4k something heal in a shroud run so far.

I frequently have healers telling "hey wait right here a second" *heal* *heal* *heal*
This is supposed to save sp on healing, not use more of it lol.

[Jamma]

Please disregard this post

[Kza]

Has anyone got the monk level 7 Wholeness of Body feat with this build? I'm curious whether its using your total levels/2 or just the monk levels/2. If its the latter, not sure the 7th level of monk is worth it over the +1 reflex save and +2 skill points from rogue 2.

Heck, I'm not sure its worth it if its the former, given the healing output this guy has.

Or perhaps there's something else I'm missing with the monk 7 over paladin 13 or rogue 2?

Its a key lvl, it opens up monk recovery 2 (20% heal amplification)

[Jamma]

Thanks, had just figured that out myself :) I'd erased my question, but forgot to refresh to see if anyone had posted for thread continuity.

[Diyon]

If you don't take 7th lvl monk, then you might as well drop rogue (or other single splash) and go at least 14th lvl paladin. Which is not bad, I've seen a number of variants on this build take that sort of route.

[Halock]

In another thread you mention that wraps are better DPS than longswords, even in splashes (at least I think it was you....same avatar :D) curious why longswords are used here instead of wraps? This is more a question for dawn I suppose, but since you also had the info on DPS, thought I would ask you too.

You dont get offhand smites and sacrifices with handwraps currently yet you do with longswords, also, both of those skills do better with weapons with good crit ranges, longsword wins out again.
The 30% from greensteel crafting is a big deal as well for the build, kama's suck alround, and longswords just have more synergy with the skills being used in the build.

[Quijonsith]

You dont get offhand smites and sacrifices with handwraps currently yet you do with longswords

My monk/pali gets smites and divine sacrifices with handwraps, even gets triple smites/DS with wind stance. Maybe you are confusing the shintao monk smite bug with paladin smite. That or you are using exalted smite unarmed, which I haven't tried again since U5. Before U5 I got offhand smites, but exalted smite didn't work on offhand.

[hydra_ex]

You dont get offhand smites and sacrifices with handwraps currently yet you do with longswords, also, both of those skills do better with weapons with good crit ranges, longsword wins out again.
The 30% from greensteel crafting is a big deal as well for the build, kama's suck alround, and longswords just have more synergy with the skills being used in the build.

I had a very detailed post explaining it to him a few months ago, here. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2961303&postcount=23)

You're a bit late ;)

[SolarDawning]

hydra_ex wins like that.
And wow, I am happy to see there is still so much interest in this build. I'm glad to hear people are having fun with it.

[SolarDawning]

Is anyone else getting too high numbers?

I've tested this thoroughly, it appears that DDO actually rounds up as it multiplies the numbers, resulting in slightly higher amounts of healing amp than the raw math would indicate.

[Quijonsith]

I've tested this thoroughly, it appears that DDO actually rounds up as it multiplies the numbers, resulting in slightly higher amounts of healing amp than the raw math would indicate.

I've noticed this too when a paladin used unyielding sovereignty on me. Was just slightly higher than expected.

[ormsbygore]

I've been in the progress of building a 32 point version of the SolarPhoenix for the past week. So far she's level 13(8 paladin/4 monk/1 rogue). I'm loving this character, lots of solo capability and healers love me. But I've been having some questions about the enhancements.

First of all I mapped out all the enhancements that are required for the build(I'll list them below). Then I mapped out the enhancements available that might be helpfull to the build(also below).

My question is: Does Divine Might really help that much?

I have the first enhancement(Divine Might I) and it helps a little, mostly its just there to make my turn undead usefull. It does add to my DPS but not much, and it takes too long to cast being a combat clickie. Do I really need to take the 2nd enhancement?...or can I free up the other 2 AP for something else?


SolarPhoenix Required Enhancements
-------------------------------------
Enhancement Name.......................AP
-------------------------------------
Rogue Haste Boost I......................1
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I...........1
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II..........2
Paladin Extra Turning I...................1
Paladin Extra Turning II..................2
Paladin Improved Turning I..............1
Paladin Improved Turning II.............2
Paladin Hunter of the Dead I............4
Paladin Hunter of the Dead II...........2
Paladin Divine Might I.....................1
Paladin Divine Might II....................2
Paladin Devotion I .........................1
Paladin Devotion II........................2
Paladin Devotion III.......................3
Paladin Devotion IV.......................4
Monk Concentration I....................1
Monk Concentration II...................2
Monk Improved Recovery I.............2
Monk Improved Recovery II............4
Monk Shintao Monk I.....................4
Human Improved Recovery I...........2
Human Improved Recovery II..........4
Human Improved Recovery III.........6
Monk Wisdom I............................2
Monk Wisdom II...........................4
Paladin Charisma I........................2
Paladin Charisma II.......................4
Human Adaptability Strength I........2
Human Adaptability Dexterity I........4
-------------------------------------
------------------------Total........72


Optional Enhancements.................AP
-------------------------------------
Follower of the Soverign Host.........2
Unyielding Soverignty....................4
Paladin Toughness I......................1
Paladin Toughness II.....................2
Paladin Toughness III....................3
Paladin Redemption I.....................4
Paladin Extra Action Boost I............2
Way of the Patient Tortoise I..........1
Way of the Patient Tortoise II.........2
Racial Toughness I........................1
Racial Toughness II.......................2
-------------------------------------
(sorry about the sloppy chart I've still got a few thigs to learn about the forums...lol)


By the time you have all the required enhancements you've spent 72 of your 80 action points, this doen't leave much for extras. You've got 8 AP to spend, and a few choices to choose from.

These are the 3 variations I've been able to come up with using the last remaining 8 AP.

You can go for Racial & Paladin Toughness II for 6 AP giving you 40 more HP(logical choice there being a melee build). And either Follower of the Soverign Host(for a +1 to hit) or Paladin Extra Action Boost I(for more Rogue Haste) as your last 2 AP.

or....

You can go for the healing support role taking Follower of the Soverign Host(+1 to hit with longswords) and Unyielding Soverignty(a nice big cure all free heal) for 6 AP. And either Racial & Paladin Toughness I(for 20 HP) or Paladin Extra Action Boost I(for more Rogue Haste) as your last 2 AP.

or....

You can go for the raise dead support role taking Paladin Redemption I for 4 AP. Then take Racial & Paladin Toughness I(for 20 HP) and Paladin Extra Action Boost I(for more Rogue Haste) as your last 4 AP.


~Nim


*On another Note*
Has anyone tried the finger necklace with this build? I'm curious to see if it's actually worth getting for this build or if I should save the necklace slot for something else.


*Edit*
I also wanted to point out. At lvl9 I was wearing the Girdle of Faith(link below) and the crit chance for healing was working on my Healing Ki(record 101 heal, not on myself at level 10~ish). And also Potency/Devotion items also work on Healing Ki, but you only need Potency/Devotion I any higher is excesive.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/GirdleofFaith.jpg
(link taken from the Difinitive Static Rrewards and Unique Loot Thread)

[Diyon]

You could free up 12 ap by not taking the wisdom and charisma enhancements, you don't really need them.

[Head_Creeps]

Hmm, when I equip a longsword it says I'm not centered anymore. . .are you supposed to stay uncentered?

Obviously a dumb question, but how are you solving this problem?

[mboger]

Hmm, when I equip a longsword it says I'm not centered anymore. . .are you supposed to stay uncentered?

Obviously a dumb question, but how are you solving this problem?

You've taken the Whirling Steel Strike feat, correct? (Getting the obvious out of the way.)

[Head_Creeps]

Hmm guess it's 6 levels of fists until that feat then. . .thanks =)

[mboger]

Hmm since it's 6 levels of fists until that feat then. . .thanks =)

Yeeeeeah... Whirling Steel Strike is pretty important to this build. You can probably get by with handwraps until level 6 (or do one of the other builds that gets WSS sooner).

[Jamma]

Hmm guess it's 6 levels of fists until that feat then. . .thanks =)

From a DPS viewpoint, you're probably better off using handwraps until you get IC:slashing at level 12 (if you use this modified feat progression):

Level 1, Human Bonus Feat: Oversized Two Weapon fighting
Level 1, Rogue: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 2, Monk Bonus Feat: Toughness
Level 3, Paladin: Weapon Focus: Slashing (Whirling Steel Strike Prerequisite)
Level 4, Monk Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Level 5, Monk: Path of Harmonious Balance
Level 6, Paladin: Whirling Steel Strike
Level 7, Paladin:
Level 8, Paladin:
Level 9, Paladin: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10, Paladin:
Level 11, Paladin:
Level 12, Paladin: Improved Critical: Slashing
Level 13, Paladin:
Level 14, Paladin:
Level 15, Paladin: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 16, Paladin:
Level 17, Monk:
Level 18, Monk: Luck of Heroes (for Shintao) or Combat Expertise (if Shintao not fixed by the time I get here, requires +2 INT tome and Wis dropped to 11, INT raised to 11)
Level 19, Monk Bonus Feat: Stunning Fist (for Shintao) or Improved Trip (if shint... blah blah blah)
Level 20, Monk:

Obvious exceptions of course for situational damage, like zombies or if you have longswords with good specials on them, like Giant Bane against giants etc.

[Dyakki]

Is there any way to make this work as a 28 point build? Even if it is somewhat weaker than your variant, I'd love, love, love to try it out with 28 points and minimal tome use. Any thoughts? For a newer player?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Obvious exceptions of course for situational damage, like zombies or if you have longswords with good specials on them, like Giant Bane against giants etc.

Or if you have two Retributions. ;)


Is there any way to make this work as a 28 point build? Even if it is somewhat weaker than your variant, I'd love, love, love to try it out with 28 points and minimal tome use. Any thoughts? For a newer player?

You might be able to get away with 15/15/14/8/8/14.

[Jamma]

Is there any way to make this work as a 28 point build? Even if it is somewhat weaker than your variant, I'd love, love, love to try it out with 28 points and minimal tome use. Any thoughts? For a newer player?

This build uses all 6 stats. 5 if you throw UMD out the window. And 2 of those stats require +2 tomes. Doesn't align with your criteria at all. This build is also very gear intensive, which doesn't align well with newer players.

As tempting as this might be, I'd really pass on it if I were you. Otherwise, Aylin's breakdown is good. 15/15/14/8/8/14. Keep in mind you'll need a +2 dex tome by level 14 (for GTWF), you should acquire a +2 charisma tome by level 14 as well (for Divine Might II). You'll need a wisdom +3 to +5 item to throw spells (you need wisdom 11 to throw 1st level spells, wisdom 13 to cast 3rd level spells).

Also, you are underestimating the 'somewhat weaker' part. Not due to stats, but due to gear. Half this build's healing amp is derived from gear that can only be obtained at high levels, that will require many hours of play time to assemble the ingredients (unless you get really really lucky). A TR would presumably already have the items made/assembled (they can be worn at a much lower level than can normally be made).

[Mojhoman]

Awesome build, I LOVE the concept! I might have to use this one for my 3 pally TRs :D

[Syntax42]

First of all...I love the idea of this build and plan on making at least one variation myself.

I haven't read all 7 pages of replies but I think you missed one piece of Healing Amp Equipment, the Finger Necklace from Litany of the Dead(link at the bottom). It's a +10% Healing Amp Necklace. I plan on grinding for one before I TR my Monk into a SolarPhoenix(34 point build).

(link taken from the static loot thread)
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/FingerNecklace.jpg

Healing Amplification of the same values on items don't stack. If you already have 10% on your dragontouched or greensteel weapon, you will not gain any benefit from this necklace.

[Quijonsith]

Healing Amplification of the same values on items don't stack. If you already have 10% on your dragontouched or greensteel weapon, you will not gain any benefit from this necklace.

Do some more research. The necklace stacks with dragontouched/greensteel. Plenty of others have already used it and confirmed. The only issue is that the total healing amp changes depending on the order in which you equip the necklace vs. the other healing amp gear.

[sigtrent]

Healing Amplification of the same values on items don't stack. If you already have 10% on your dragontouched or greensteel weapon, you will not gain any benefit from this necklace.

The finger necklace is a known exception to that rule. Why? It seems to be programmed differently, perhaps an older version of healing amp. Instead of multiplying the total like other amps it only multiplies on the base and adds that much to the total. But it has been proven that it stacks with other 10% items according to the DDO Wiki.

[CoasterHops]

I recently pulled a 30% healing amp dream edge from mindsunder, unsurpressed it would also have lesser vampirism on it plus bodyfeeder, a times 3 crit and maiming , will this do as my healing amp weapon and if so do i need to go whirling steel/longsword path?

[theb]

I recently pulled a 30% healing amp dream edge from mindsunder, unsurpressed it would also have lesser vampirism on it plus bodyfeeder, a times 3 crit and maiming , will this do as my healing amp weapon and if so do i need to go whirling steel/longsword path?

What difficulty was the run on? Oh and GRATZ!

[Diyon]

I recently pulled a 30% healing amp dream edge from mindsunder, unsurpressed it would also have lesser vampirism on it plus bodyfeeder, a times 3 crit and maiming , will this do as my healing amp weapon and if so do i need to go whirling steel/longsword path?

That is full of win. You may still want to take the feat and use a GS ls in your mainhand. I'm not honestly sure what the best options are with that weapon available to you. And ya, CONGRATS.

[YakoSpiritFist]

Trying this out but I'm stuck with 32 point build so I had to make some adjustments. One thing i'm confused about is how Shintao monk helps with healing. I don't see anything related to healing with that enhancement. I see smite and protection from evil which is pretty useless because there is usualy somebody with the same buff that will just overwrite yours making it a waste of ki. The smite is nice but is it worth the cost?

So I decided not to take shintao monk and put those points elsewhere like in Paladin resistance of good. My saves are starting to look pretty crazy. :P

[Diyon]

Trying this out but I'm stuck with 32 point build so I had to make some adjustments. One thing i'm confused about is how Shintao monk helps with healing. I don't see anything related to healing with that enhancement. I see smite and protection from evil which is pretty useless because there is usualy somebody with the same buff that will just overwrite yours making it a waste of ki. The smite is nice but is it worth the cost?

So I decided not to take shintao monk and put those points elsewhere like in Paladin resistance of good. My saves are starting to look pretty crazy. :P

The shintao PrE is included to allow you to use the finisher Healing Ki faster by using the additional light moves. Unfortunately, atm the Prfe ability is bugged and doesn't register as a light move and the smite has a 30 second cooldown. For the time being I'm not bothering with it on my character. However, I do believe Eladrin promised it was getting an overhaul possibly completely replacing the Prfe ability.

[YakoSpiritFist]

The shintao PrE is included to allow you to use the finisher Healing Ki faster by using the additional light moves. Unfortunately, atm the Prfe ability is bugged and doesn't register as a light move and the smite has a 30 second cooldown. For the time being I'm not bothering with it on my character. However, I do believe Eladrin promised it was getting an overhaul possibly completely replacing the Prfe ability.

Ah ok thank you. If they fix it I may go ahead and take it but until then....

[Jamma]

I recently pulled a 30% healing amp dream edge from mindsunder, unsurpressed it would also have lesser vampirism on it plus bodyfeeder, a times 3 crit and maiming , will this do as my healing amp weapon and if so do i need to go whirling steel/longsword path?

The original Solar Phoenix build was based on Kamas:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238298

You'll even see an earlier post on this thread where a guy was complaining of spending a lot of time getting his dreamedges, only to see the 'build' change.

The drawback of that original build was the damage from kamas was a little weak. But it was workable before. Saving the two feats for longswords means

a) two more toughness feats
b) not having to hit a monk stance every time you log in.
c) You'll get to look silly waving around two garden tools all the time.
d) you'll get to do less damage, all the time (1d10 17-20x2>>1d8 19-20x2; in the case of your offhand healing amp weapon 1d10 17-20x2>1d8 19-20x3, holy+good burst>>>>>>maiming, and who needs vampirism when your healing curse is curing you 4-8 every hit?)

The dream edge is a light weapon, so you could use that (and other kamas) in your off hand, making the OTWF feat useless and therefore swappable.

[Diyon]

b) not having to hit a monk stance every time you log in.

That is annoying. I feel like if the game had an internal monologue, it would like something like this here:

Hey! A monk! Alright, right back in your stance.
Wait! LONGSWORDS! You can't do that! No stance for you! UNCENTER!
Oh hey there's that feat....errr sorry, ummm...RECENTER!

[Jamma]

Trying this out but I'm stuck with 32 point build so I had to make some adjustments. One thing i'm confused about is how Shintao monk helps with healing. I don't see anything related to healing with that enhancement. I see smite and protection from evil which is pretty useless because there is usualy somebody with the same buff that will just overwrite yours making it a waste of ki. The smite is nice but is it worth the cost?

So I decided not to take shintao monk and put those points elsewhere like in Paladin resistance of good. My saves are starting to look pretty crazy. :P


Shinto monk is horrible at the moment (beyond horrible for Shinto I), I'll probably substitute 2 more toughness feats till they make it worthwhile. If PfE was working correctly you could spam healing Ki every 7 seconds instead of every 10 seconds, and save 5 ki each cycle. The irony is that as designed a Shinto monk would be constantly spamming a non-damage spell on an enemy, just to save a few seconds on a (normally) very weak heal spell. Truly idiotic.

Even the pre's are horrible, 2 feats for that pile of poo. On this build, two useless feats.

[Jamma]

That is annoying. I feel like if the game had an internal monologue, it would like something like this here:

Hey! A monk! Alright, right back in your stance.
Wait! LONGSWORDS! You can't do that! No stance for you! UNCENTER!
Oh hey there's that feat....errr sorry, ummm...RECENTER!

The really annoying feature is that whirling steel strike isn't considered a monk class feat, when monk is the only class that can even take it.

[CoasterHops]

The original Solar Phoenix build was based on Kamas:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238298

You'll even see an earlier post on this thread where a guy was complaining of spending a lot of time getting his dreamedges, only to see the 'build' change.

The drawback of that original build was the damage from kamas was a little weak. But it was workable before. Saving the two feats for longswords means

a) two more toughness feats
b) not having to hit a monk stance every time you log in.
c) You'll get to look silly waving around two garden tools all the time.
d) you'll get to do less damage, all the time (1d10 17-20x2>>1d8 19-20x2; in the case of your offhand healing amp weapon 1d10 17-20x2>1d8 19-20x3, holy+good burst>>>>>>maiming, and who needs vampirism when your healing curse is curing you 4-8 every hit?)

The dream edge is a light weapon, so you could use that (and other kamas) in your off hand, making the OTWF feat useless and therefore swappable.

Yeah, to me it seems that I would be best off taking the whirling steel/longsword path and not worrying about the otwf, thats one extra feat, and no need to grind/clean an extra gs longsword, I have dream edges for almost every situation at present (about 15, even a vorpal one which is unsuppressed on my capped monk though) and the 30% healing amp was pulled on elite for those that were asking.

The 4 advantages of using it offhand seem:
1.The lesser vampirism will stack with light healing?
2. X 3 crit
3.No otwf needed
4. Only one gs longsword needed.

Also is this build viable as 12ranger/6monk/2whatever?

[Dyakki]

This build uses all 6 stats. 5 if you throw UMD out the window. And 2 of those stats require +2 tomes. Doesn't align with your criteria at all. This build is also very gear intensive, which doesn't align well with newer players.

As tempting as this might be, I'd really pass on it if I were you. Otherwise, Aylin's breakdown is good. 15/15/14/8/8/14. Keep in mind you'll need a +2 dex tome by level 14 (for GTWF), you should acquire a +2 charisma tome by level 14 as well (for Divine Might II). You'll need a wisdom +3 to +5 item to throw spells (you need wisdom 11 to throw 1st level spells, wisdom 13 to cast 3rd level spells).

Also, you are underestimating the 'somewhat weaker' part. Not due to stats, but due to gear. Half this build's healing amp is derived from gear that can only be obtained at high levels, that will require many hours of play time to assemble the ingredients (unless you get really really lucky). A TR would presumably already have the items made/assembled (they can be worn at a much lower level than can normally be made).

Well, I'll try it. I like a challenge, but I hate the way this game is set up in that you can't just roll with someting right off the bat. Constant rerolling is not fun to me, but eh, it's a free game, I'll get up there eventually.

[Syntax42]

I guess I was wrong about Finger Necklace. It isn't exactly healing amplification. The bonus must be a unique "Fleshmaker" bonus.

What is a good item for the trinket slot for this build? I was looking at Litany of the Dead, but I'm not sure what the penalties would be for equipping it. I equipped a chaotic weapon on my Monk and he only suffered -5 HP, -1 to-hit, and -1 saves. If that's all, equipping Litany on a paladin would be more beneficial than harmful. The result would be +1 damage, no to-hit change, +1 to all saves, and +15 HP.

[Jamma]

Yeah, to me it seems that I would be best off taking the whirling steel/longsword path and not worrying about the otwf, thats one extra feat, and no need to grind/clean an extra gs longsword, I have dream edges for almost every situation at present (about 15, even a vorpal one which is unsuppressed on my capped monk though) and the 30% healing amp was pulled on elite for those that were asking.

The 4 advantages of using it offhand seem:
1.The lesser vampirism will stack with light healing?
2. X 3 crit
3.No otwf needed
4. Only one gs longsword needed.

Also is this build viable as 12ranger/6monk/2whatever?

The GS weapon doesn't require cleaning. 12 ranger/7 monk/1 whatever is very similar, you're just swapping some minor differences around (Favored enemies, bow feats, more offhand hits, actual skill points vs. more healing amp, exalted smite, better resistances, etc).

The biggest thing is you're losing that 20% healing amp from HotD 2, but getting more offhand hits from Tempest 1/2 and more character versatility.

[Jamma]

I guess I was wrong about Finger Necklace. It isn't exactly healing amplification. The bonus must be a unique "Fleshmaker" bonus.

What is a good item for the trinket slot for this build? I was looking at Litany of the Dead, but I'm not sure what the penalties would be for equipping it. I equipped a chaotic weapon on my Monk and he only suffered -5 HP, -1 to-hit, and -1 saves. If that's all, equipping Litany on a paladin would be more beneficial than harmful. The result would be +1 damage, no to-hit change, +1 to all saves, and +15 HP.


If you have Mantau's goggles, then LotD. Otherwise, Bloodstone.

[khaldan]

For a 34 point build, what would be the best setup?

And how do epic gloves of the claw fit with this build?

[Syntax42]

For a 34 point build, what would be the best setup?
Plan out your gear before you try to answer that question. There are enough options for obtaining +1 exceptional bonuses and +7 stat items that you may want to start with an odd stat. For this build, I would suggest starting with about 16 str, no less than 15 dex for TWF, and about 14 con. The other stats are secondary and can be adjusted to fit.



And how do epic gloves of the claw fit with this build?
If you have another 30% healing amp item, they won't stack. I would wait and see if those gloves get changed. A dev posted that some of the new items may be placeholders for more powerful items. They also may perform a balance pass on these new epic items. Those gloves don't have +15 intimidate, which makes me think they will be changed. Lately, most epic items have been changed to +15 skill bonus.

[Jamma]

For a 34 point build, what would be the best setup?

And how do epic gloves of the claw fit with this build?

As currently implemented, the epic gloves of the claw would replace the offhand healing amp longsword, allowing you to use a better weapon while still maintaining a 4.01 healing amp.

Or you could then use the offhand weapon for a 10/20 healing amp longsword, allowing you to switch out the DT armor for different armor.

[rossiza]

have not really read every page. is there a an AC breakdown, or is AC something to be ignored on this build

[Diyon]

have not really read every page. is there a an AC breakdown, or is AC something to be ignored on this build

If you try very hard you can get decent AC on this build, but honestly I don't find it worth it and just grab whatever AC bonuses are convenient and don't get in the way of other stuff.

[Shigura]

Nvm

[TiberiusofTyr]

Those gloves don't have +15 intimidate, which makes me think they will be changed. Lately, most epic items have been changed to +15 skill bonus.

The gloves have an Enhancement bonus to Intimidate, which will stack with the Competence bonus other items grant.

[rossiza]

Shintao Monk 1 will provide the build with alternate ways to activate Healing Ki, and to do so quicker as an emergency heal.


Feedback is not only appreciated, but welcome.

How does Shintao benefit the healing? Seems like a waste of 2 feats to get a prot from evil ? Is it the 5 ki cost light move ?

[Quijonsith]

How does Shintao benefit the healing? Seems like a waste of 2 feats to get a prot from evil ? Is it the 5 ki cost light move ?

The original intent was that you'd be able to spam 3 different light moves rapidly so you could activate healing ki faster. Problem is the prot from evil isn't registering as a light move (bug) and the smite is on a 30 second cooldown.

[rossiza]

Might be beneficial to turn tho 2 feats into metamagics (empower healing / maximize / quicken [2 out of the 3]) and use paladin spellcasting inbetween finisher for emrgency heals.

Cure Moderate 2d8 + 10 = lets say 20 ( for a nice rounding) (Edit: I forgot the spell dice are loaded, so 20 is actually the minimum)

Maximize (quicken) = 40
+40% Paladin Devotion IV +75% Superior Ardor 3 potion (115%) = 86
86 * 4.01 healamp = 344

Maximize + Empowered = 50
+40% Paladin Devotion IV +75% Superior Ardor 3 potion (115%) = 107
401% heal amp = 429

Maximize + Empowered + Empower heal (cant that even stack) = 60
+40% Paladin Devotion IV +75% Superior Ardor 3 potion (115%) = 129
401% heal amp = 517

Turns blue bar into red bar pretty effectively, just requires some blue bar management.

Your concentration will also be maxed for ki, so quicken might be avoidable, and if you fail the Moderate, hit the light for 5-8 less inititial heal and you are again turning some blue into alot of red.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Might be beneficial to turn tho 2 feats into metamagics (empower healing / maximize / quicken [2 out of the 3]) and use paladin spellcasting inbetween finisher for emrgency heals.

Cure Moderate 2d8 + 10 = lets say 20 ( for a nice rounding)

Maximize (quicken) = 40
+40% Paladin Devotion IV +75% Superior Ardor 3 potion (115%) = 86
86 * 4.01 healamp = 344

Maximize + Empowered = 50
+40% Paladin Devotion IV +75% Superior Ardor 3 potion (115%) = 107
401% heal amp = 429

Maximize + Empowered + Empower heal (cant that even stack) = 60
+40% Paladin Devotion IV +75% Superior Ardor 3 potion (115%) = 129
401% heal amp = 517

Turns blue bar into red bar pretty effectively, just requires some blue bar management.

Mine (which is currently only level 12 due to too many characters and not enough time) has actually been getting along fairly well with Fists of Light and CSW potions when that isn't enough. I currently have 196% healing amp, 216% if I can get the +10% healing airship buff.

But yes, all three of those metamagics stack.

[Valindria]

My 15/3/2 has empower heal and extend. Currently 11/3/1 with 2x heals with guild buff. Cure Mod Wounds hits for over 100. The highest heal ki crit I have had was ~160-180. Until shintao gets fixed I would saw the metamagics would be a good choice.

[rossiza]

First off +1 to OP for a well thought out feat progression.

I tried to tamper to fit in some metamagic or even past life cleric and its hard! Even when switching classes around (and loosing the awesome rogue bonus starting skill points), and trying to do all the possible monk feats at the bonus times.

My idea is to switch luck of heroes (level 1) to OTWF. Which means at lvl 6 I can use 2 x longswords with no negatives.

Then level 2, a toughness instead of stunning fist (would only ever use fists on skeletons who are immune and DC's are pointless on cross class)

Then level 12 go for IC: Slash (6 levels earlier).

Level 18 pick up maximize for cure moderate.

Which means 22hp bonus, earlier bonus use of dual longswords without penalty, earlier IC and some potent SP to HP conversion.

For gear I am thinking Conc goggles instead of Tharnes when taking hits (sneak bonus doesnt really help then either), Tharnes for when not soloing, raids etc when not using mana to self heal much.

It's going to be my cleric TR so I will have torc too, can switch in for lots of self heals when soloing with cure mod.

I did an AC breakdown which i wont bother to post, but could not really get over mid 75's (Raid buffed with a bard even sacraficed DPS) so think the focus is on HP.

Being a single TR I would have 34 pts, but 1 extra turn undead (DM II use). Instead of 16str I woud start at 14 with 1 extra con, then instead of using human bonus in dex would shove into con for another 20 extra HP)

So 1 less to-hit, 1 less damage, 44 extra HP, maximize on cures, no shintao, extra DM II.

The other option is to drop the extra 1 con and have 2 int for more skill points (mostly if I wanted more trap skills) but I have no desire to be uber trapper.

Would be nice if I could work out how to put the cleric past life feat in. Same hp benefit as Light finisher (5x per rest).

[Dialis]

Im currently playing a version of this, main change is 13 levels of monk and 6 of paladin instead of 7/12. Not sure if its better or worse, but I wanted that monk leap ability and then at 13 I get spell resistance which can be a little useful sometimes. Im also using handwraps, since Shintao gives extra stuff for unarmed. I guess I will get 10% less healing, but I should do a little more DPS.

Im only level 4 though, but it works well so far :)

[Mister_Peace]

I got to 19, used a LR to pick up the feats for longsword.
Unfortunately myddo is broken so you can't see the character.
http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/dulcamara/ mostly as written in OP, except only 32 points

I really enjoy this character, although it seems the rogue level could be better spent on Paladin. UMD has not been as useful as I first thought, and I didn't have the build points to take DD and Search.

At 20, with Monk 7, I'll be at 3x heal amp wielding triple-pos longsword, as I don't have a DT made yet.

I plan on getting the Claw gloves and replacing the longsword with Min2.
One could certainly craft a pair of Min2 swords, one Acid 20 Healamp and one 10 Healamp Acid, but this seems a big sacrifice for 4x over 3x healing.

[Quijonsith]

If you made min2 longswords with healing amp instead of actual good damage (good burst/holy) you wouldn't be able to bypass pit fiend DR.

[rossiza]

I think the GS healing AMP weapons, including triple POS, would need to be situational. If your running shroud you can manage just fine with 300% heal amp. The poor clerics are keeping the Frenzied WF Barb alive and mass cures will be topping you up just fine.

At other times your also using vorpals, portal beaters etc.

[Diyon]

I personally think that switching out the triple positive 30% amp for the epic gloves and full dps weapons is a good move. However, it may be easier to start off with the triple positive until you get the gloves made.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Can anyone tell me for sure if Divine Sacrifice is bugged with handwraps?

If it isn't, and the devs don't change the way Epic Bracers of the Claw work, I'm switching to handwraps.

Stunning Fist will finally get a bit of use.

[Tobril]

Can anyone tell me for sure if Divine Sacrifice is bugged with handwraps?

If it isn't, and the devs don't change the way Epic Bracers of the Claw work, I'm switching to handwraps.

Stunning Fist will finally get a bit of use.

Still bugged. :mad:

Only the main hand will do the extra light damage.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Still bugged. :mad:

Only the main hand will do the extra light damage.

What about the extra crit multiplier?

[Tobril]

What about the extra crit multiplier?

I’m not sure at the moment, and won’t be able to test for a few weeks as I TR’d a few days ago. :p

[Jamma]

I got to 19, used a LR to pick up the feats for longsword.

I really enjoy this character, although it seems the rogue level could be better spent on Paladin. UMD has not been as useful as I first thought, and I didn't have the build points to take DD and Search.



Its basically +1 ToHit (from BAB) vs. 6 damage from sneak attack every hit (that you don't have agro) AND 5 uses of Rogue haste boost AND decent UMD scores AND open a heck of a lot of locks with no skill point investment (other than the 4 freebies for level 1) AND +2 reflex save.

Seriously, virtually any level of anyother class would probably be better than 13 paladin. 8 monk if you wish (+1 ToHit from BAB wipes out the only plus from paladin 13, AND gives you +1 saves AND better slow fall AND some minor stuff you'll probably never use (+1 to WOB healing tics, +1 DC to Stunning Fist, +1 to damage from 1d10 die for handwraps).

If I didn't take the rogue level, my alternates would probably be one of:

Fighter (effectively gives you one extra toughness for 20 more HP) - a good choice if you want to max intimidate
Ranger (Favored Enemy Evil Outsiders, Bow Strength for more ranged damage if you don't mind reactivating stance every time) - a good choice if you like to solo a lot
Wizard (lots of SP, ability to use arcane wands, Extend metamagic to make those Divine Favors stay up longer or Mental Toughness for an extra 105 SP, bringing the total extra to +235 SP at level 20) - a good choice if you like playing backup healer at lower levels

UMD becomes really useful after you've assembled the gear required to reliably use the level 40 scrolls. A typical setup would be (this is not an exclusive list, just one for typical stuff):
+6 charisma from items
+3 exc charisma from items (lot of people make a +9 charisma GS weapon just to use UMD)
1 charisma (enhancement)
14 starting charisma +10 = 24, or +7 to UMD
+3 golden cartouche
+6 charisma skills GS item
+2 head of good hope
+4 greater heroism clickie from X Cipher

23 UMD (From skill)+22 from above list, = 45 UMD, or enough to use all the best scrolls (heal, resurrection, waves of exhaustion, etc)

As you can see, other than for race restricted gear, UMD doesn't begin to shine till you have a lot of dedicated gear to support it. But once you've assembled it, it can be quite handy.

[sacredtheory]

Question concerning the level progression...

I really like the concept of this build so I decided to give it a try. I had a level 12 paladin I was getting bored with, so I LR'd her into this build. But I have a question about the level progression.

Since it was originally a pure pally, I had to use a +3 heart to switch in the level 1 rogue, the level 2 monk, and the level 4 monk. That leaves me with only one more switch, the level 5 monk. But instead of doing another LR with a +1 heart, would it be detrimental to just take my next level (level 13) as monk? That would avoid spending more points on the heart, but I just want to make sure it wouldn't mess anything up. If I take monk at level 13, that would still technically be my 3rd monk level, and I should be able to select path of harmonious balance, correct?

[Jamma]

I think you'll be fine.

[Diyon]

If I'm getting the right impression from half elf, it may be that they'll be the new solar phoenixes depending on what stuff they can get (pretty sure they'll be getting most of the human and elf enhancements which means the healing amp is also theirs).

[-Zyxas-]

Erm, I think you messed up the Healing Ki. In the compendium it says it heals 1d4 per two MONK LEVELS. You put it at 10d4, which would be if you were pure monk. For 7 levels of monk in your build, it should be 3d4 healing..... Plus your modifiers again, but still. Unless the compendium lies. And to my experience the compendium is fairly accurate.

EDIT: This would put the average healing from the healing ki at 73.8.

[Diyon]

Erm, I think you messed up the Healing Ki. In the compendium it says it heals 1d4 per two MONK LEVELS. You put it at 10d4, which would be if you were pure monk. For 7 levels of monk in your build, it should be 3d4 healing..... Plus your modifiers again, but still. Unless the compendium lies. And to my experience the compendium is fairly accurate.

EDIT: This would put the average healing from the healing ki at 73.8.

Pretty sure its mentioned in the original thread linked in the post, but it is 10d4, the game in practice uses character level, same for breath of the fire dragon.

[Tobril]

Erm, I think you messed up the Healing Ki. In the compendium it says it heals 1d4 per two MONK LEVELS. You put it at 10d4, which would be if you were pure monk. For 7 levels of monk in your build, it should be 3d4 healing..... Plus your modifiers again, but still. Unless the compendium lies. And to my experience the compendium is fairly accurate.

EDIT: This would put the average healing from the healing ki at 73.8.

Too bad it's currently working based on character level.

Don't believe everything you read.

[Diyon]

Too bad it's currently working based on character level.

Don't believe everything you read.

Your post confuses me, that's pretty much exactly what I said.

EDIT: Errr nvm, apparently for some reason it showed you quoting me, then after I posted it changed to Zyxas' post. So disregard this, I think I was ninja edited.

[Tobril]

Pretty sure its mentioned in the original thread linked in the post, but it is 10d4, the game in practice uses character level, same for breath of the fire dragon.


Your post confuses me, that's pretty much exactly what I said.

EDIT: Errr nvm, apparently for some reason it showed you quoting me, then after I posted it changed to Zyxas' post. So disregard this, I think I was ninja edited.

Yup, I'm a forum doofus. :D

I edited my response to quote the correct person.

[Raveolution]

as someone already mentioned : what about the incoming half elf race ? Will it be better for this build ? And what about the new shintao pre ?

[rossiza]

I don't think theres clarity on all the available Human bits available in half elf, it's very possible healing amp will not be on the list (correct me if I am wrong please). I hope it will.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I don't think theres clarity on all the available Human bits available in half elf, it's very possible healing amp will not be on the list (correct me if I am wrong please). I hope it will.

I'm actually hoping that they won't get it.

Healing amp is probably the most powerful enhancement line Humans get, especially now that Half-Orcs are in. If Half-Elves get the best thing Humans do, what's the point of a Human?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Bonus feat.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Bonus feat.

Eh, I suppose.


I guess we'll see in October either way.

[rossiza]

At first I thought no way the Half-Elves would get it, but then I remembered bonus feat and extra skill points. So it is quite viable.

On the other hand, it does complicate the build, the feats are very tight. So I don't think half elves would excel in this build anyways, unless you were planning to drop the Shintao PRE entirely.

[Diyon]

At first I thought no way the Half-Elves would get it, but then I remembered bonus feat and extra skill points. So it is quite viable.

On the other hand, it does complicate the build, the feats are very tight. So I don't think half elves would excel in this build anyways, unless you were planning to drop the Shintao PRE entirely.

As it stands currently, I don't use shintao on mine, depending on exactly what it brings with update 7, I may or may not continue remain specced to get it. Also, there's still the slight hope something will change in the feat req's that will cut down on an uneeded feat such as stunning fist (doubt it), or Luck of Heroes by giving another feat option.

[Jamma]

Based on whats been posted by Eladrin, Shintao I will still blow chunks. It appears the only change was to replace the PfE light strike with a permanent protection from tainted creature bonus (+2 to AC if attacked by tainted creatures). Since the only point of ****o monk on this build was to gain a 6 second healing ki spam from the PfE light strike (which never worked), there will still be no reason to spec Shinto on this build post U7.

But I sure hope I'm wrong!

Eight days later: Sigh. No I wasn't.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Based on whats been posted by Eladrin, Shintao I will still blow chunks. It appears the only change was to replace the PfE light strike with a permanent protection from tainted creature bonus (+2 to AC if attacked by tainted creatures). Since the only point of ****o monk on this build was to gain a 6 second healing ki spam from the PfE light strike (which never worked), there will still be no reason to spec Shinto on this build post U7.

But I sure hope I'm wrong!

I guess I get to farm more Dragonshards... *Sigh.*

[ieatsyew]

is there any way this build would work with 32 point build?

[AylinIsAwesome]

is there any way this build would work with 32 point build?

Mine is a 32-point build.

16 STR/15 DEX/14 CON/10 INT/8 WIS/14 CHA

[Tobril]

Idle thoughts…

Quis posted some interesting shuriken observations here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274374

Since you’re planning on abandoning Shintao (and therefore Luck of Heros) I was
wondering if Quick Draw and three AP spent to acquire the Thousand Stars enhancement
would fit into the build.

A manyshot type ability might prove helpful from time to time provided the build cost isn’t too high.

[rossiza]

Idle thoughts…

Quis posted some interesting shuriken observations here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274374

Since you’re planning on abandoning Shintao (and therefore Luck of Heros) I was
wondering if Quick Draw and three AP spent to acquire the Thousand Stars enhancement
would fit into the build.

A manyshot type ability might prove helpful from time to time provided the build cost isn’t too high.


Unfortunately its not only Quick Draw you need (although quick draw is useful regardless of ten thousand starts - with all the pally clickies), to get those damage numbers you also need Brutal Throw.

[Tobril]

Unfortunately its not only Quick Draw you need (although quick draw is useful regardless of ten thousand starts - with all the pally clickies), to get those damage numbers you also need Brutal Throw.

Brutal throw just effects attack bonus, not damage. All thrown weapons get str to damage without any special feat/ability.

Lialat is quite hittable with 24 dex so long as both destruction effects are in place.

Most other monsters are not anywhere near as hard to hit.

[rossiza]

aah yes, thanks for the correction.

If you scrap Shintao (which is a good idea at this time) then it does open the possibility. You basically get one extra non class feat. My opinion on options are:

- Quick draw: for the clickies (DM, Attack boost, haste boost), faster ranged
- Extend spell: for short buffs (Divine Favour, Prayer)
- More toughness....
- Skill Focus UMD: (tho UMD should be fine)
- Past life: if you have something useful you want (cleric could be useful, *click* 250hp, but 5x sucks since Sorc/Wiz/FVS all get their clickies 10x)
- Stunning blow: could have its uses with some stunning +10 handwraps to switch to
- Maximize/Empower: for the little cures, not practical in madstone boots (maximized cure will net you +400hp)

[Raveolution]

ok , now that we have the released notes of u7, can we have a refresh of this build ? Still human or half elf ? Which dilettante feat ? Shintao or not ? Other changes ?
Thanks a lot :)

[Raveolution]

ok , now that we have the released notes of u7, can we have a refresh of this build ? Still human or half elf ? Which dilettante feat ? Shintao or not ? Other changes ?
Thanks a lot :)

[Diyon]

ok , now that we have the released notes of u7, can we have a refresh of this build ? Still human or half elf ? Which dilettante feat ? Shintao or not ? Other changes ?
Thanks a lot :)

I'm thinking Human or half are viable choices. By the looks of it, shintao is nice now, but not for this build. I'm axing it completely and getting myself some more feats.

[rossiza]

I haven't found out too much about half elf yet, but my understand is Dilletante is the free feat instead of Human and healing amp IS available. Shintao does not look worth it, so Modified feat progression for half elf with no Shintao:

Feat: (Half-Elf Bonus) Sorcerer Dilletante (this is going to reduce UMD required for arcane scrolls and unlock wands - gotta meet the 13 stat ability and charisma fits)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) OTWF (Do IC here and OTWF there if you have hitting problems)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Well thats my inititial take on it :)

Unlocking wands will be quite cool for stoneskin, blur, etc while levelling up.

[Darkrok]

I'm just running through the gear right now getting ready to TR and here's what I came up with as far as some reasonable items...just wanted to see if I had the right idea on this.

Head: Wisdom/Concentration Item -> Minos
Neck: Con/Concentration item -> Silver Flame/Torc -> Shintao Necklace
Goggles: Korthos -> Whatever (blindness ward?) -> Tharne's
Trinket: Crude Bauble -> Voice -> HoGF/Bloodstone
Chest: Invulnerability or Fortification -> Icy -> DT'd
Cloak: Charisma Item -> +hp Greensteel (have an earthgrab one)
Bracers: Jid'z-Tetka
Belt: GFL/Con/Fort -> Knost's
Rings: Whatever I'm missing -> ToD rings
Gloves: Healing Crit from Reaver, (Epic) Spectrals, Epic Gloves of the Claw (drool)

So I think all that gear, at least at the end, is pretty well set in stone. You *could* dump Tharne's but I'm not sure I'd want to do that. Even though it would mean a nasty time of it in ToD as well as not having striding boots from level 11 on would it make sense to make my con-opp +150sp/+6wis/blind/disease ward item on my boots? Or would it make more sense to swap with Tharne's if I need con-opp, the sp's, blind/disease ward, or the umd bump?

[Jamma]

ok , now that we have the released notes of u7, can we have a refresh of this build ? Still human or half elf ? Which dilettante feat ? Shintao or not ? Other changes ?
Thanks a lot :)


Shinto still sucks for this build, so cross that one off. Half elf dilletante feat for this build sucks too. About all you get for it is the ability to use arcane wands, which aren't a problem now due to the build's high UMD.

Assuming you have full access to human improved recovery 3, you could get +2 damage for longswords from 6 AP, also +2 to attack for 6 AP. Given how starved this build is for AP, at the moment I'm putting half-elves in the 'nothing to see here' category and moving on.

I wonder what half-orc's other half is? If it was human, and they got the IR3...

Hmm, now that paladins get intimidate as a class skill, half-elven intimidate might work great with this...

[Mister_Peace]

Apparently half-elves get 2 of the 3 human heal amp enhancements, and none of the elf sword enhancements.

I don't expect half-orcs to get any of them, as they don't seem to get any human enhancements.

[MysteryNotes]

Mine is a 32-point build.

16 STR/15 DEX/14 CON/10 INT/8 WIS/14 CHA

I was just about to search for this :p

Hows the build going with a 32pointer?
This looks really cool

[Diyon]

Apparently half-elves get 2 of the 3 human heal amp enhancements, and none of the elf sword enhancements.

I don't expect half-orcs to get any of them, as they don't seem to get any human enhancements.

If this is true, then I say forget half elf.

Mystery- This build can work perfectly fine with a 32 point build, running one now and its lots of fun.

[MysteryNotes]

If this is true, then I say forget half elf.

Mystery- This build can work perfectly fine with a 32 point build, running one now and its lots of fun.

Awesome, thanks for the response.
I just rolled the char yesterday, can't wait to see what it can do.

[Darkrok]

Just a few random thoughts on the build.

First, I don't think you're going to have a very useful stunning fist here. The DC will just be too low. That said, I could certainly see us using handwraps quite a bit as we level up which would make power attack useful. Also, there's just times where the enemy ac is SO low that power attack wouldn't get in the way even with the longswords. I'd swap Stunning Fist to level 19 and Power Attack to level 2.

For people with plenty of resources that are TR'ing into this it might be worth considering a 10/20/30 healing amp greensteel. You'll get your greensteel at level 12 - you don't get the DT until 16. In addition, with the 10/20/30 item you'd have the ability to swap into different armor and still keep your healing amp. Again, more for the person with plenty of resources though...3 large scales and 3 large stones is a lot of extra ingredients just to have another option to get to 10/20/30 as well as having it 4 levels earlier.

[Jamma]

The stunning fist feat was listed purely as a pre for Shintao Monk I, which is now pointless on this build. It and Luck of Heroes can be replaced with anything you want. I took two extra toughness feats. I'll probably swap one for quickdraw once I get a GS hp item made.

[Darkrok]

Just thought I'd toss in my intimidate version of this for U7. I'm in the process of getting the greensteel I need together and will finish up my DT'd robe for this after U7 makes it less frustrating. With paladins getting intimidate as a class skill I'm sold now on a Solar Phoenix...I think you'll be able to get enough intimidate to put all of that healing amp to good use. I apologize for any mistakes in the build planner...I had to do some hand editing to make it work U7 style. Also one note - I would save skill focus: intimidate for a feat swap at level 19. Take Power Attack until then and swap at the end of level 18 from Power Attack to SF: Intim so you can take Power Attack at Monk 6 at level 19.

HP-wise with a greensteel hp item, argo favor, +6 con, gfl, toughness on gear you'd hit 519. This build really needs all the hp-gear available. A big goal for me will be to get at least exc. con +2 on one of my tod rings to push that to 539. But we're looking at least at 519hp's before buffs. Giving up 7AP for Greater Human Adaptibility: Con and Racial Toughness III along with having both Exc. Con +1 and +2 could conceivably push you to 600+, but mid-500's buffed sounds more likely.

Here's a breakdown on Intimidate with the gear I'm currently planning. There's obviously some ways to get higher but this is where I am so far:

Ranks: 23
Base Charisma with Tome: +3
Least Dragonmark of Sentinel: +2
SF: Intimidate: +3
Deneith Intimidation I: +1
Paladin Intimidation IV: +4
Base w/o gear: 36

+6 Cha Item: +3
+5 Cha Skills Item: +5
+15 Intim Item: +15
Base w/o buffs: 59

So most of the time we'll be running a 63+ intim. Certainly enough for trash and quite a few raids as well. Bard songs and some specialized gear could run that even higher.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Vengeful Phoenix
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 136
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 18
Will: 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 9 9
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 4 26 28
Diplomacy 2 3 3
Disable Device 4 5 5
Haggle 5 6 6
Heal 0 1 1
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 26 36
Jump 7 11 11
Listen 0 1 1
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock 6 7 7
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 4 5 5
Spot 0 1 1
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble 3 4 4
Use Magic Device 6 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate IV

[Mojojojojo]

Just thought I'd toss in my intimidate version of this for U7. I'm in the process of getting the greensteel I need together and will finish up my DT'd robe for this after U7 makes it less frustrating. With paladins getting intimidate as a class skill I'm sold now on a Solar Phoenix...I think you'll be able to get enough intimidate to put all of that healing amp to good use. I apologize for any mistakes in the build planner...I had to do some hand editing to make it work U7 style. Also one note - I would save skill focus: intimidate for a feat swap at level 19. Take Power Attack until then and swap at the end of level 18 from Power Attack to SF: Intim so you can take Power Attack at Monk 6 at level 19.

HP-wise with a greensteel hp item, argo favor, +6 con, gfl, toughness on gear you'd hit 519. This build really needs all the hp-gear available. A big goal for me will be to get at least exc. con +2 on one of my tod rings to push that to 539. But we're looking at least at 519hp's before buffs. Giving up 7AP for Greater Human Adaptibility: Con and Racial Toughness III along with having both Exc. Con +1 and +2 could conceivably push you to 600+, but mid-500's buffed sounds more likely.

Here's a breakdown on Intimidate with the gear I'm currently planning. There's obviously some ways to get higher but this is where I am so far:

Ranks: 23
Base Charisma with Tome: +3
Least Dragonmark of Sentinel: +2
SF: Intimidate: +3
Deneith Intimidation I: +1
Paladin Intimidation IV: +4
Base w/o gear: 36

+6 Cha Item: +3
+5 Cha Skills Item: +5
+15 Intim Item: +15
Base w/o buffs: 59

So most of the time we'll be running a 63+ intim. Certainly enough for trash and quite a few raids as well. Bard songs and some specialized gear could run that even higher.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Vengeful Phoenix
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 136
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 18
Will: 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 9 9
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 4 26 28
Diplomacy 2 3 3
Disable Device 4 5 5
Haggle 5 6 6
Heal 0 1 1
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 26 36
Jump 7 11 11
Listen 0 1 1
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock 6 7 7
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 4 5 5
Spot 0 1 1
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble 3 4 4
Use Magic Device 6 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate IV




So I assume you are letting your HP (without dr) be your AC and make it for by having a large hp buffer and huge healing amp? Cause it doesnt seem like you are going to have any end-game meaningful AC... Correct me if I'm wrong.. I have never once played a monk before.. Thinking to tr my 28point rogue into this.

And is it possible to fit quick draw and brutal throw in for the ranged option? Maybe like put fighter there instead of rogue for the extra feat since you arent putting anything into dd and search? Is that possible? Thanks! :D

[Darkrok]

So I assume you are letting your HP (without dr) be your AC and make it for by having a large hp buffer and huge healing amp? Cause it doesnt seem like you are going to have any end-game meaningful AC... Correct me if I'm wrong.. I have never once played a monk before.. Thinking to tr my 28point rogue into this.

And is it possible to fit quick draw and brutal throw in for the ranged option? Maybe like put fighter there instead of rogue for the extra feat since you arent putting anything into dd and search? Is that possible? Thanks! :D

Exactly on the HP's keeping you alive. Your self-heals will keep you alive through most fights and when a heal scroll from a rogue will hit you for 440 you'll be able to survive any fights that don't exceed your hp's in spike damage (Horoth worries me a bit).

Rogue is fairly critical for full ranks of UMD. Being able to toss your own heal scrolls is a huge boon, not to mention all the other goodies (shield-10, stoneskin, fireshield, teleport, etc) that UMD brings.

I'm not playing this build though...Tobril's Kung-Fu Cowboy has me sold - 15 paladin/3 monk/2 rogue. Same general idea but it brings more dps (Zeal and Holy Weapon) and gives up very little...just a drop in healing amp to the mid 300%'s and no second tier stances/animal stances. It also levels up fairly easily as a 1 or 2 rogue/x paladin where you'll lean on your AC at the levels where it can be kept up simply with some nice armor and a shield clicky.

[dogpig00]

For intimidate version, i recommend getting monk enhancement, Way of the Tenacious Badger , for more intimidate.

However, I would go with pal 16/monk3/rogue1, you want that cure critical wounds. And I would also get quicken spell instead of something else. Quickened cure critical wounds will heal you around 250, more than healing ki.

Also remember that using intimidate will reset your light light light combo sequence. meaning that if you intimidate every 6 sec, you cannot use healing ki. Then if you wait ~18 seconds for 3x fist of light, you cannot intimidate.

[Darkrok]

For intimidate version, i recommend getting monk enhancement, Way of the Tenacious Badger , for more intimidate.

However, I would go with pal 16/monk3/rogue1, you want that cure critical wounds. And I would also get quicken spell instead of something else. Quickened cure critical wounds will heal you around 250, more than healing ki.

Also remember that using intimidate will reset your light light light combo sequence. meaning that if you intimidate every 6 sec, you cannot use healing ki. Then if you wait ~18 seconds for 3x fist of light, you cannot intimidate.

If I'm in a group just running a regular dungeon I'd probably dump one intimidate, go lightx3, then dump another. I'm not looking to be a traditional 'lockdown' tank. I'm looking to be a dps that's extremely easy to heal so purposely attracts extra attention. Now I can play like a lockdown tank if I've got a healer with me and the situation calls for it...it's just not what my normal play style is likely to be. Get the attention, do some damage and get a big heal off, then get the attention again.

Good tip on Badger. I'll have to think about that some...I like the extra hp's from Tortoise quite a bit but that certainly could be useful getting what's basically a 'free' +1 to intim.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Hey OP, when are you gonna switch from Longswords over to Handwraps and the Epic Claw Gloves? ;)

[pasterqb]

Hey OP, when are you gonna switch from Longswords over to Handwraps and the Epic Claw Gloves? ;)

I was wondering this since u6. But I would love any proof you have that handwraps will outdps lit II longswords. I don't know a lot about monks but thought handwraps got stronger with more monk levels. Atleast I see this before I made my GS.

Also saw people saying shintao is now useless and would like more agreement or atleast disagreement on that.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I was wondering this since u6. But I would love any proof you have that handwraps will outdps lit II longswords. I don't know a lot about monks but thought handwraps got stronger with more monk levels. Atleast I see this before I made my GS.

Also saw people saying shintao is now useless and would like more agreement or atleast disagreement on that.

On mine I dropping the Shintao pre-reqs and WSS entirely. Shintao took a lot of AP (and it's a pretty AP-tight build) and doesn't provide enough of a bonus to be worth it to me.

As for longswords vs. handwraps: there is a bug with Divine Sacrifice that causes only the main hand to deal light damage. Not sure about the +1 crit multiplier yet. Handwraps won't suffer a -2 or -4 penalty in to-hit though, which is important for keeping Power Attack on during Epics. Handwraps also attack ~12% faster.

Most importantly though, since you won't be taking WSS or Weapon Focus: Slashing, you can instead take Stunning Blow and get a decent-ish DC with it, and that will also increase your DPS. Add in ToD rings (you'll have to fit in the Epic Cape of the Roc now for the +2 exceptional STR bonus on it) and there's no real comparison anymore.

Of course this is just me, and part of me always felt dirty spending 10 scales on Longswords.


Even with switching to handwraps, taking the Rogue splash is still best. Haste Boost 1 is a good DPS boost, UMD is awesome, opening locks is a nice perk, and the 1d6+3 Sneak Attack you get outweighs the +1 base damage Monk 8 would give you (except against 100% fort mobs).

[Ravoc-DDO]

I doubt fists will deal more damage overall for this build, unless you fill the freed feat slots with Disciple of the Fist perhaps. Longswords have double crit range compared to fists and offer many GS options, including Lit II and Earthgrab, TTS, Freezing Ice. Your stunning DC will most likely be to low for epic as well.

If you take the 15/3/2 build approach, the difference only gets bigger, as you'd lose a unarmed step and a feat.

I could be wrong however. :)

[NUDS]

I've been thinking of trying out this build for a while. Now that I'm fairly close to TRing again, I thought about planning ahead and trying something more..advanced.

So, a little background on me:

1st life as Monk, about halfway on second life as Monk again.

I play for the experience of leveling. No raiding, no end-game grinding. TR as soon as I hit cap.


My question is, would it be possible to make this build work without über gear?

That is, swapping the GS LS for fists.


Here is what I might TR into:



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Paladin \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 381
Spell Points: 177
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 17
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 14 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 7
Bluff 2 2
Concentration 4 9
Diplomacy 2 2
Disable Device 4 18
Haggle 2 2
Heal 1 2
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 2 2
Jump 7 12
Listen 1 2
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 4 16
Spot 5 6
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device 6 28

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III


Level 13 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV


Level 19 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II




Feedback is appreciated!

Regarding rogue skills, not sure how much search/DD is "enough". Although to be honest with evasion, I'll be running through most traps anyway. Otherwise I would probably dump rogue skills in favor of jump/tumble (The mobility of Monks is really addicting!)

[Diyon]

I've been thinking of trying out this build for a while. Now that I'm fairly close to TRing again, I thought about planning ahead and trying something more..advanced.

So, a little background on me:

1st life as Monk, about halfway on second life as Monk again.

I play for the experience of leveling. No raiding, no end-game grinding. TR as soon as I hit cap.


My question is, would it be possible to make this build work without über gear?

That is, swapping the GS LS for fists.


Here is what I might TR into:



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Paladin \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 381
Spell Points: 177
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 17
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 14 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 7
Bluff 2 2
Concentration 4 9
Diplomacy 2 2
Disable Device 4 18
Haggle 2 2
Heal 1 2
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 2 2
Jump 7 12
Listen 1 2
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 4 16
Spot 5 6
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device 6 28

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III


Level 13 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV


Level 19 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II




Feedback is appreciated!

Regarding rogue skills, not sure how much search/DD is "enough". Although to be honest with evasion, I'll be running through most traps anyway. Otherwise I would probably dump rogue skills in favor of jump/tumble (The mobility of Monks is really addicting!)

Without the healing amp gear this build just becomes some subpar dps character with little benefits made for the dps trade off. I remember some of the mid levels where I didn't have that much amp and that was the toughest time for the character (low levels I just powered through stuff with super twinked handwraps). Once I got my DT amps and eventually the 30% amp the dps trade offs paid off.

[NUDS]

So would the DPS be noticeably lower than say, a pure Monk?

Some of the hardest quests I've run into includes Running with the Devils (N) end fight, but I was able to say up with 55% healing amp, spamming healing ki/pots/scrolls and chipping away the bosses health.

I assume AC wouldn't really matter since I was still getting hit most of the time with 50ish AC.


Without the DT and GS stuff, I lose 60% possible healing amp, although I would still have 105% from the rest.

This (should) still be pretty decent?

I'm not expecting to be a one-man killing machine, with everything dropping dead on elite as soon as I touch them, I just want something that is a blast to play.

Or would I just be better off rolling a pure Monk(again) for my third life and so on?

[mournbladereigns]

Based on whats been posted by Eladrin, Shintao I will still blow chunks. It appears the only change was to replace the PfE light strike with a permanent protection from tainted creature bonus (+2 to AC if attacked by tainted creatures). Since the only point of ****o monk on this build was to gain a 6 second healing ki spam from the PfE light strike (which never worked), there will still be no reason to spec Shinto on this build post U7.

But I sure hope I'm wrong!

Eight days later: Sigh. No I wasn't.

Hmm, I don't see how being able to throw fist of light, shintao strike, fists of light and then healing finisher is useless, will be higher ki cost, but it equals better dps. the ki cost would be 10/15/10+10 for finisher versus a straight 10/10/10+10 for pure fists of light. You'll lose a few hits worth of healing shield.

# Shintao Monk: Smite Tainted Creature

* Cost: 15 Ki
* Benefit: You have the ability to expend ki to deal devastating blows in melee against tainted creatures. You gain twice your Wisdom modifier to your attack roll and a damage bonus based on your monk level. A tainted target will be locked in a tomb of jade on vorpal attacks (attack roll of 20 followed by critical confirmation) on a failed Will save (DC = 10 + Wisdom Modifier + your monk level). Extraplanar Aberrations, or Undead must succeed at two consecutive Will saves to avoid their fate. This ability counts as a Light move. (Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds.)

the jade vorpal probably won't proc, but this is close to a pal smite evil +2xwis mod to hit, and most likely 7+(3xmonk level) to dmg. So thats still still a +10 to hit, +28dmg smite for 5 extra ki. Sounds good to me. And the standing prot evil is still nice for the anti-domination and deflection bonus.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I doubt fists will deal more damage overall for this build, unless you fill the freed feat slots with Disciple of the Fist perhaps. Longswords have double crit range compared to fists and offer many GS options, including Lit II and Earthgrab, TTS, Freezing Ice. Your stunning DC will most likely be to low for epic as well.

If you take the 15/3/2 build approach, the difference only gets bigger, as you'd lose a unarmed step and a feat.

I could be wrong however. :)

Remember that fists attack ~12% faster, and can get burst effects on ToD rings. In auto-crit situations this makes fists undoubtedly better. A fists build can, in non-epics, provide their own auto-crits with Stunning Fist. And in epics, which the chance of Stunning Fist landing may not be very high, in a party with a caster this isn't a concern as Mass Hold Monster takes care of all those needs for you.

I see a lot of players think that you can't use fists unless you have a majority of Monk levels. The only thing that increases with Monk levels though is unarmed die; the major things are built in right at level 1. The only reason to use Longswords on this would have been to get the 30% healing amp, but now that that can be attained on the gloves slot, there really is no need to burn two feats and lower your to-hit for it.

[Ravoc-DDO]

A pure monk with a full spectrum of bursts can easily top GS, but not this build despite that wraps attack faster, or so I think at least.

However, I would also be interested to see any actual numbers if anyone feels like crunching them (considering realistic scenario's), to know the exact difference.

[Diyon]

So would the DPS be noticeably lower than say, a pure Monk?

Some of the hardest quests I've run into includes Running with the Devils (N) end fight, but I was able to say up with 55% healing amp, spamming healing ki/pots/scrolls and chipping away the bosses health.

I assume AC wouldn't really matter since I was still getting hit most of the time with 50ish AC.


Without the DT and GS stuff, I lose 60% possible healing amp, although I would still have 105% from the rest.

This (should) still be pretty decent?

I'm not expecting to be a one-man killing machine, with everything dropping dead on elite as soon as I touch them, I just want something that is a blast to play.

Or would I just be better off rolling a pure Monk(again) for my third life and so on?


Actually that's not how healing amp works. You'd actually lose about 165.544% amp off your total. With nothing you're at 100%, without the 10%, 20%, and 30%, from items you are only at 234%. With everything you are at about 401.544%. With guild buffs this can go up to 441.6984%, with 3 paladin past lives added in, 511.3211103%.

The 15/3/2 build as a base has 368.082%. 404.8902% with guild buffs, with the past lives added, 468.711017775%.

Instances of healing amp aren't added together they are multiplied (30%=1.3, 25%=1.25, 10%=1.1, etc).

[NUDS]

OK, I really don't want to get obsessively involved with minmaxing and number crunching again but anything I don't understand, I need to know.

So a couple of breakdowns.

Assuming I have:

30% - Human Racial Enhancements
20% - Hunter of the Dead II
20% - Monk Class Enhancements
25% - Jidz-Tet'ka
10% - House J Healer Guild Buff

This means I will get 1*1.3*1.2*1.2*1.25*1.1 = 2.574 multiplier on all incoming heals.

Example A: Incoming heal for 100
100*2.574 = 257.4 effective healed

Example B: Incoming heal for 100 (With Sup Ardor (75%)) so effective heal is 175?
175*2.574 = 450.45 effective healed?

Now assuming I'm using Healing Ki (Copypasta from OP):

10d4 = 25 average.
+40% Paladin Devotion IV = 35
+75% Superior Ardor 1 potion = 53.75
53.75 multiplied by 2.574 = 138.3525 effective healed


So, OK. 138 on average pales in comparison with the 215.5 average from the original build.

But 138 healed is still pretty impressive IMO, and I'm not exactly going to do epic raids where obviously every single number counts.

Anyway, I don't really care about massive numbers. I just want to know if this build would be viable with budget gear, whether or not I would enjoy levelling this or if I will end up smashing my head against the keyboard in frustration and LR to something else.

Thanks.

[Diyon]

OK, I really don't want to get obsessively involved with minmaxing and number crunching again but anything I don't understand, I need to know.

So a couple of breakdowns.

Assuming I have:

30% - Human Racial Enhancements
20% - Hunter of the Dead II
20% - Monk Class Enhancements
25% - Jidz-Tet'ka
10% - House J Healer Guild Buff

This means I will get 1*1.3*1.2*1.2*1.25*1.1 = 2.574 multiplier on all incoming heals.

Example A: Incoming heal for 100
100*2.574 = 257.4 effective healed

Example B: Incoming heal for 100 (With Sup Ardor (75%)) so effective heal is 175?
175*2.574 = 450.45 effective healed?

Now assuming I'm using Healing Ki (Copypasta from OP):

10d4 = 25 average.
+40% Paladin Devotion IV = 35
+75% Superior Ardor 1 potion = 53.75
53.75 multiplied by 2.574 = 138.3525 effective healed


So, OK. 138 on average pales in comparison with the 215.5 average from the original build.

But 138 healed is still pretty impressive IMO, and I'm not exactly going to do epic raids where obviously every single number counts.

Anyway, I don't really care about massive numbers. I just want to know if this build would be viable with budget gear, whether or not I would enjoy levelling this or if I will end up smashing my head against the keyboard in frustration and LR to something else.

Thanks.

You get along with budget gear (although, to be honest the gear this build needs isn't pricey at all. A triple positive LS only takes 2 large scales, you can get that from just running the shroud normally. The other difficult piece is the DT armor, which isn't pricey its just luck. You don't even need a particular sovereign rune. And that's going to get a lot easier to deal with in a few days with the runes getting identified. If you go the extra mile, epic gloves of the claw are definitely not budget gear) but whether or not you will enjoy it is questionable. Your survivability, especially once you get the amps you listed, will still be awesome in groups, but you will be a lot more reliant on outside healing. Solo ability is where the budget gear will kick you the most, As that difference in the amount you can self heal will be enough that you won't be able to survive a number of things on your own. Particularly, there is the difference of you will be healing 2 or 4 hp per swing, compared to 4 or 8 hp a swing, in combination with the lessened healing ki.

Of course this all depends on your play style and what you will consider fun. In any case I would tell you to go for it anyways, because really, the amp gear isn't that hard to get, you should be able to get it without any input from other characters even. The LS is just a number of shroud runs, and the DT, all you'll have to do is run Prey on the Hunter and either you will pull the 20% amp rune, or someone else in the group will get it that doesn't need it, and you can trade them your pull for it. The 10% amp rune will be ridiculously easy with the update, just turn in 50 draconics once or twice for you choice of a rune and you should be sure to get it that way.

[AylinIsAwesome]

A pure monk with a full spectrum of bursts can easily top GS, but not this build despite that wraps attack faster, or so I think at least.

However, I would also be interested to see any actual numbers if anyone feels like crunching them (considering realistic scenario's), to know the exact difference.

What bursts are you talking about? Everyone can wear ToD rings, and nothing stops you from using tier 2 Monk strikes along with your Divine Sacrifice and Smite Evils.

[Tobril]

What bursts are you talking about? Everyone can wear ToD rings, and nothing stops you from using tier 2 Monk strikes along with your Divine Sacrifice and Smite Evils.

Just a reminder for whoever does the calculation, divine sacrifice and smite evil only proc on the "main hand" when using handwraps. (u6, unknown if this is changed in u7)

As far as weapons are concerned, you will likely end up with longswords, handwraps, picks, and a few other special weapons (dreamspitter) that all have their place in the appropriate situations.

Also be cognizant of the fact that using handwraps primarily and relying on burst effects from rings will complicate your gear situation as if you were a pure monk. (not a bad thing, just requires more work/planning)

[NUDS]

-snip-

Thanks man, I will definitely give it a try :) Especially with the surprise 25% bonus to exp, I will probably get to cap sooner than I anticipated.

Looking at the gear, I have about 2 mill plat. Maybe I can just buy the larges and nab an invite on to a guild airship that has the GS crafting thing :P

Otherwise I haven't done any endgame stuff or any raids at all. I think I was actually flagged for shroud when I was levelling up in the Vale. I remember getting some random stones and then some guy told me to combine them and then they were like "Oh well done, you are flagged for the Shroud now!".

I have some draconic token things from rare hunting in Reavers Reach. Shouldn't be a problem to farm 50. Although I have no idea what to do next :P

The Epic gloves of the Claw look really sweet, but I seriously doubt it's anywhere near obtainable for me.



Anyway, thanks again for the advice! Looking forward to getting this build in action soon :)

[makmakkabab]

What is appealing about this build more then say a pure monk? with the same effort you can get almost the same healing emp on a 20 monk. I will lose 20% from HotD and gain 10% from monk. so the difference is 10% multiplier. except from that its UMD, and the HotD level drain immunity and ghost touch. now, although losing level drain and UMD is annoying, you do gain full monk damage dice, grand master of the sun, abilities, and -10 dr/epic. also, if they ever decide to change the healing curse mechanism to count only monk levels, your build stays completely intact. am I missing something?

[Cinnamon_Girl]

For me at least, it's partly about the style and feel of the build. The synergistic melding the three classes had a certain appeal to me. I'd been playing around with paladin multi-class builds for months and hadn't really found one that seemed as effective as I'd wanted. It can be difficult to accomplish that, but this build does very well for itself. Sure, technically, there are things about the build that are better than or worse than a pure monk, but the same thing can be said for any pure build versus any multi-class one.

[Diyon]

What is appealing about this build more then say a pure monk? with the same effort you can get almost the same healing emp on a 20 monk. I will lose 20% from HotD and gain 10% from monk. so the difference is 10% multiplier. except from that its UMD, and the HotD level drain immunity and ghost touch. now, although losing level drain and UMD is annoying, you do gain full monk damage dice, grand master of the sun, abilities, and -10 dr/epic. also, if they ever decide to change the healing curse mechanism to count only monk levels, your build stays completely intact. am I missing something?

Well getting almost as much amp misses the point of the classic version of the build. Over 400% amp, which makes healing ki really nice, and curse of healing give 4 or 8 hp. Pure monk can achieve 362.505% amp with no guild buffs or past lives, but this requires Epic Gloves of the Claw which are ML20, or for you to not use handwraps to get the 30% amp. Without it you're only sitting at 278.85% amp, where at higher levels the amp will be nice, but will hardly get quite the similar effect. The strength of the multiclass here is that its helping optimize its dps and utilities in the trade off of using GS weapons. With the multiclassing, using the GS over handwraps is little loss because you haven't invested more levels of monk, where a chunk of the DPS is going to come from high unarmed damage. Here you invest in paladin levels which you don't lose any of its functionality from using the GS weapons over wraps, as well as gain more amp, immunities, ghost touch, more hp, EDIT: Lay on Hands can't forget that life saver, and better saves, as well as whatever you pick up from a small splash level (most often UMD and Open Lock).

That doesn't mean a pure monk with high amp isn't good by any means, it just doesn't quite accomplish the "I can live forever" capabilities that this build can achieve. Plus, I love being able to sit in front of beholders and laugh at them (no negs, the only truly threatening thing they can accomplish is a disintegrate and you save most of the time, if you fail, you heal it up right away at no investment of limited resources).

[makmakkabab]

I do have another question. In the original build, the OP took shintao monk pre for a faster healing via a second skill that counts as a light move. from what I'm reading in this thread these days, players decided against that move because previously the second light move was bugged. however, I see that the smite taint ability from the pre still counts as a light move, so isn't it make sense go back to the original idea and take the shintao prestige?

[Diyon]

I do have another question. In the original build, the OP took shintao monk pre for a faster healing via a second skill that counts as a light move. from what I'm reading in this thread these days, players decided against that move because previously the second light move was bugged. however, I see that the smite taint ability from the pre still counts as a light move, so isn't it make sense go back to the original idea and take the shintao prestige?

That part has always worked. Originally there was the smite AND the Protection from evil move, which were supposed to count as light moves. The second one never worked as a light move but was quicker and cheaper than the smite. Now the protection from evil ability has been replaced, so most people have decided that without it it's not worth getting, especially since it requires two feats that you would otherwise probably not take, and uses AP on a very tight AP build. In any case it was just going to be helpful before, the build has done fine without it.

[makmakkabab]

That part has always worked. Originally there was the smite AND the Protection from evil move, which were supposed to count as light moves. The second one never worked as a light move but was quicker and cheaper than the smite. Now the protection from evil ability has been replaced, so most people have decided that without it it's not worth getting, especially since it requires two feats that you would otherwise probably not take, and uses AP on a very tight AP build. In any case it was just going to be helpful before, the build has done fine without it.

so, since I don't have access to GS weapons, is it valid to build this around 14 levels of pally and split the rest of the levels between monk and rogue? obviously, at least 3 monk. however, if I am not going for shintao prestige, then I have 2 spare feats, losing 1 feat by not going 6 monk shouldn't be a problem, once I'll craft GS weapons I can LR to the original 12/7/1. any thoughts?