Comparisons are Odious

[Rubiconn]

This will date me but back in high school my latin teacher(yes I went to a high school in the 80's where latin was taught) would tell us all the time that comparisons are odious(hateful).
I have been reading several different forums, mostly things that look interesting or play a factor in my char development but I have noticed that a lot of people want to know what does more damage, casters or melee, what is the best build,who is the worst healer. I understand the need for people to measure themselves against their peers but truth be told I never discuss the specifics of my charachters because I dont follow any build plan. A lot of veteran players will say "That will gimp your toon, or you are missing out on doing something really cool". If I am happy with my toon development and I play it to the best of my abilities and most of all if Im having fun isnt that the important thing. Actually let me correct that... its the only thing, this is a game people its supposed to be fun, investing so much time and effort into comparing yourself to others is ridiculous. I will be the first to admit I dont always know what I am doing but I hope for any of those folks on Khyber that I have run with the one thing they can say is I dont take it too seriously and they enjoyed having me in their group/guilds. I have become familiar with a lot of great people in this game and I thank each and every one of them for all the help and fun I have had over the last couple of years.
Just needed to get that off my chest I hope there are others who feel this way and if you are trolling around on Khyber and you find me posting a group or looking to join yours I wont be the most tricked out buffed up build on the planet but I will make the best of it and be a good party member.


Toons are Xirth (18 wf wiz), Xirthtrix (9 human fighter), Xirthax (5 drow paly TR)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

This will date me but back in high school my latin teacher(yes I went to a high school in the 80's where latin was taught) would tell us all the time that comparisons are odious(hateful).

I'm afraid your latin teacher wasn't very bright. Some comparisions are critical to reasoned thinking and good decision making.

Maybe thats why they had as their profession the teaching of a dying language.

[r3dl4nce]

If you want have fun and all the party you're in want to have fun in high level or epic quests, your character need to be good. Some characters are easy to make good (sorcerer, full healing cleric and so on...) some others it's better to create a build to plan how to gain every bit of advantage. But you can have fun not doing all the harder quests of the game, no problem, it's your game style :)

[Rubiconn]

First my latin teacher spoke 8 languages and she was a nun, and latin is not a dead language, it may not be spoken but it is the basis for all the romance languages(spanish,italian, portugese,french and romanian). but that is besides the point.

The point wasnt that all comparisons are bad I agree that comparisons are required for reason thinking but comparing yourself to others is odious. You only have to measure up to yourself and what you believe is best.
There are plenty of people who echo the same statement, the best build in bad hands makes a bad toon, an average build in the hands of a person who can play makes it much better. I would rather have a party full of competent players who know how to play and can work together vs a couple of the best builds run by people who read a forum and think they know what they are doing. The best way to learn anything is doing not reading about other people doing.

And I didnt mean to imply that I didnt plan my build I have a plan but I have things I want to do with my toons and I would rather have the enjoyment of creating something myself vs copying what someone else did. I did a lot of research and looked at different build before TRing my paly, but the best information I got was from playing and talking to other players in game, not necessarily reading the forum.

That was all my point was.
I guess I was a little tired of listening to a lvl 5 fighter grocery listing all his gear and telling my how great his toon was, if I ask go ahead and tell me but to spend 10 min in proof is in the poison telling the party what great stuff you have its time to take a break and visit reality.

[Missing_Minds]

Per contra, scientia est potentia.

[Kadran]

This is ridiculous. I can't decide if I should share how narrow minded the OP is, or if I should just grab the popcorn and wait for the regulars to do it. Popcorn it is. :-)

[Rubiconn]

What makes you say Im narrow minded?
Im allowed an opinion but if it doesnt fit into your view of the world it makes me narrow minded!

[stainer]

The real question is: Colby Jack or Cheddar cheese - which is better? Don't come in here with Velveeta either. That is not a real cheese.

[Missing_Minds]

The real question is: Colby Jack or Cheddar cheese - which is better? Don't come in here with Velveeta either. That is not a real cheese.

Depends on your mood. If you want something soft and mellow, Colby.
If you are in the mood for some stand up flavor, sharp cheddar.

[Kadran]

Ok, looks like I dragged myself into this arguement, and I was just looking forward to the popcorn. :-)

First, allow me to point out that it sounds like you have a major crush on your latin teacher.

Now that's cleared up, lets get to the point. You cannot make statements like, "all comparisons are bad" and expect me not to call you narrow minded. If you've read any of my posts, I like to think I have an ability to look at both sides of an arguement and make an unbiased, informed decision.

I understand your wanting to enjoy the game, that's why we're all here afterall. People achieve this many different ways: perma-death, raiding, PuG, guilds, etc. You just happen to choose "gimping my toons." Now, let me take this one step further. I FULLY understand your desire to play unique builds that you created yourself. I, myself, have never rolled a character build I didn't plan myself (that's not to say I didn't get inspiration from forums and friends but they are not carbon copies.) That being said, I plan them all. Start to finish. Skills, Stats, Feats, HP, Saves, the whole 9 yards. It's crucial to understand your builds strengths and weaknesses; a build plan can help you understand before you decide to take the controls. I would not want to know about a player in my party that didn't have a build plan. It makes my brain hurt...

So I do see both sides of your arguement. I just feel that you're "all comparisons are bad" mantra (that you stole from your latin teacher because of sentance #2) is horribly narrow minded. I feel that it is YOU, sir (or maddam), who is not making the effort to see both sides to this confrontation. To you I say, "Good day!"


Cool sort-of relatable side story: I was in a guild once called Getting Into Multiclass Project, or GIMP. Your character was literally random. You rolled, in front of others, your race and classES. Every character HAD to have 3 classes, and once those 3 were determined, you then had to roll randomly EVERY level to determine what you would take. It made planning your character nearly impossible, and you had to rely mostly on player skill over character abilities. It was a blast, and I recommend it to anyone, but there were not many in the guild and I quickly got tired of soloing with a sub-par character (as you could only group with other guild members.)

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Now that's cleared up, lets get to the point. You cannot make statements like, "all comparisons are bad" and expect me not to call you narrow minded. If you've read any of my posts, I like to think I have an ability to look at both sides of an arguement and make an unbiased, informed decision.



The point wasnt that all comparisons are bad I agree that comparisons are required for reason thinking but comparing yourself to others is odious. You only have to measure up to yourself and what you believe is best.

Can i call you illiterate Kadran?

[stainer]

Can i call you illiterate Kadran?

You may have pointed out a fallacy in the argument.

[Rubiconn]

Its looks to me that you read something into my post that was not there. Please cut and paste where in my post it stated that "All" comparisons are bad. I didnt say that I even followed it up with a clarification that was not my intention.
So your supposition is that if you have respect for someone who made an impression on you that constitutes a crush. Then so be it I have a crush on my former latin teacher.

If you read further I clarified that I do plan my builds but you obviously picked a couple of things out of the original post and cant get past it.

I can see both sides of the issue I was just posting an impression, opinion, view whatever you want to call it. You have decided to become the crusader and decide who is right and wrong and who is open minded and narrow minded. You must think mighty big of yourself to believe that you are the end all be all of information and opinion in this game. To you I say "Good Day"

And as far as cheese goes Baby swiss, gouda, ementaler(sp)

[Chai]

Its not comparisons that are odious.

Its the min maxing + absolutism combination that sucks. Min maxing by itself is fine because people like to have strong characters, but when people run around talking like there is one formula for success and everything else is gimped, this type of absolutism is laughable.

Then they try to act like you dont understand how the mechanics of building work because you didnt make a specific choice **cough khopesh cough, and then you gotta go all Homer Simpson on their sorry selves.

"Just because I dont caaaare, doesnt mean I dont understaaaaaand!"

[Rubiconn]

Thank you Chai for stating it this way I was trying to make a similar point. That really was the aim of my original post is the feeling I get from other players and the sense from some of the forum posts that if you dont build a toon just like is laid out by others that there is going to be something wrong with it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The point wasnt that all comparisons are bad I agree that comparisons are required for reason thinking but comparing yourself to others is odious. You only have to measure up to yourself and what you believe is best.

Sorry, that's not true in real life. If you are charged with murder, do you want the best lawyer, or the one who believes they are best they can be? Do you think employers want the best employees relative to other candidates, or just the person who gosh darn it is happy with how good they are?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Its looks to me that you read something into my post that was not there. Please cut and paste where in my post it stated that "All" comparisons are bad. I didnt say that I even followed it up with a clarification that was not my intention.

Here you go...


This will date me but back in high school my latin teacher(yes I went to a high school in the 80's where latin was taught) would tell us all the time that comparisons are odious(hateful).

See... no limiting clauses. You are clearly at least inferring that all comparisions are hateful. If that wasn't what you were inferring then you OP makes even less sense.

[Rubiconn]

You are correct there were no limiting statements but there were also no statements of degree i.e. all comparisons are odious. Perhaps I should have colored the picture in with more context from my school days but I was quoting something a person said 25+ years ago. Sorry if I didnt make it totally clear to people who are so intelligent to completely look at all sides of an argument, and the fact that I was posting this in a DDO forum would probably limit the context of the discussion to DDO not murder charges or getting a job.(Wow talk about reading too much into a post)

Its time to take a break and go out and enjoy the sunshine.

[Missing_Minds]

the person who gosh darn it is happy with how good they are?

These people seem to be the ones most often hired.

Regardless, I'm off to see if I can't figure out this.. "ementaler" cheese the op mentioned. I don't recognize it.

[stainer]

Sorry, that's not true in real life. If you are charged with murder, do you want the best lawyer, or the one who believes they are best they can be? Do you think employers want the best employees relative to other candidates, or just the person who gosh darn it is happy with how good they are?


These people seem to be the ones most often hired.

Regardless, I'm off to see if I can't figure out this.. "ementaler" cheese the op mentioned. I don't recognize it.

Happy cows make good cheese!

There. This thread has been neatly tied up.

[Kadran]

This will date me but back in high school my latin teacher(yes I went to a high school in the 80's where latin was taught) would tell us all the time that comparisons are odious(hateful).
I have been reading several different forums, mostly things that look interesting or play a factor in my char development but I have noticed that a lot of people want to know what does more damage, casters or melee, what is the best build,who is the worst healer. I understand the need for people to measure themselves against their peers but truth be told I never discuss the specifics of my charachters because I dont follow any build plan. A lot of veteran players will say "That will gimp your toon, or you are missing out on doing something really cool". If I am happy with my toon development and I play it to the best of my abilities and most of all if Im having fun isnt that the important thing. Actually let me correct that... its the only thing, this is a game people its supposed to be fun, investing so much time and effort into comparing yourself to others is ridiculous. I will be the first to admit I dont always know what I am doing but I hope for any of those folks on Khyber that I have run with the one thing they can say is I dont take it too seriously and they enjoyed having me in their group/guilds. I have become familiar with a lot of great people in this game and I thank each and every one of them for all the help and fun I have had over the last couple of years.
Just needed to get that off my chest I hope there are others who feel this way and if you are trolling around on Khyber and you find me posting a group or looking to join yours I wont be the most tricked out buffed up build on the planet but I will make the best of it and be a good party member.


Toons are Xirth (18 wf wiz), Xirthtrix (9 human fighter), Xirthax (5 drow paly TR)



Its looks to me that you read something into my post that was not there. Please cut and paste where in my post it stated that "All" comparisons are bad. I didnt say that I even followed it up with a clarification that was not my intention.
So your supposition is that if you have respect for someone who made an impression on you that constitutes a crush. Then so be it I have a crush on my former latin teacher.

If you read further I clarified that I do plan my builds but you obviously picked a couple of things out of the original post and cant get past it.

I can see both sides of the issue I was just posting an impression, opinion, view whatever you want to call it. You have decided to become the crusader and decide who is right and wrong and who is open minded and narrow minded. You must think mighty big of yourself to believe that you are the end all be all of information and opinion in this game. To you I say "Good Day"

And as far as cheese goes Baby swiss, gouda, ementaler(sp)

It's Human nature to compare ourselves to others, as individuals and especially as groups. That's why we have tournaments in major sports, the playoffs. They don't play the game for fun, they play to be the best and to win. In older times, they used armies to prove who was the better. Look at the Spartans.

I did not see your 2nd post, as it was probably written while I was in the process of writing my response. It's tough to do while at work. :-P I had made the assumption based on your own words that you do not plan your builds. It's also very possible that I read more into it than was actually there. I really only have it a quick skim as I'm at work. Wouldn't be the first mistake I've made. :-)

Your tone makes me feel that you feel attacked, and I apologize if that is the case. I honestly meant my post in good humor, but I don't feel it was received as such.

Also, as far as cheese goes, it's all about Brie!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You are correct there were no limiting statements but there were also no statements of degree i.e. all comparisons are odious. Perhaps I should have colored the picture in with more context from my school days but I was quoting something a person said 25+ years ago. Sorry if I didnt make it totally clear to people who are so intelligent to completely look at all sides of an argument, and the fact that I was posting this in a DDO forum would probably limit the context of the discussion to DDO not murder charges or getting a job.(Wow talk about reading too much into a post)

Its time to take a break and go out and enjoy the sunshine.

We were just pointing out the silly side of your argument, which became more entertaining as you continued to defend it.

Here's the reality... comparisions are GOOD and NECESSARY. Smart people do them. You are correct however that in a game it isn't that important to be "perfect"/"the best" at all times, as long as you contribute enough that you aren't a drain on the party or you are detracting from their fun.

[Eladiun]

I'm afraid your latin teacher wasn't very bright. Some comparisions are critical to reasoned thinking and good decision making.

Maybe thats why they had as their profession the teaching of a dying language.

That is all win +1

[Kadran]

We were just pointing out the silly side of your argument, which became more entertaining as you continued to defend it.

Here's the reality... comparisions are GOOD and NECESSARY. Smart people to them. You are correct however that in a game it isn't that important to be "perfect"/"the best" at all times, as long as you contribute enough that you aren't a drain on the party or you are detracting from their fun.

This. Could not have said it better. +1.

[eonfreon]

OP, I understand your point, somewhat.
Play however you want.
But are you not guilty of "comparisons" yourself?
You compare the way you have fun to the way others have fun and declare that it is the best for you.
That's great and all, but it's a comparison nonetheless.
Just as you tire of hearing about someone bragging about their "uber" build and gear, many of us tire of hearing folks who tell us that their play style is superior because their way is more "fun".
Good for you. So squelch the person who annoys you and move on.
Soap boxes are annoying.
And Monterey Jack kicks butt!!

[Rubiconn]

Perhaps I am as guilty as anyone for reading too much into a statement. I did read it partially as an attack but it always amazes me how literal people can be, reading through posts that are full of abbreviations and shortcuts and in a world full of people who can only speak in 140 char sound bites that clear and concise thinking can get through.

I too am at work and cant focus solely on my post.

We dont need to hug now do we?


And sorry about the misspelling of the cheese its a swiss cheese Emmentaler

[Kadran]

We dont need to hug now do we?




LMAO. I don't think we need to hug this one out... +1.

[Missing_Minds]

And sorry about the misspelling of the cheese its a swiss cheese Emmentaler

Not an issue, I was able to find it. I'm not partial to swiss much, but you need it for a good tuna melt or Ruben sandwich.

edit: Wait... this thread was able to come to an agreeable conclusion AND we had talks of cheese? And I mean food cheese, not forum cheese...

Does this qualify as an under appreciated thread win?

[Yajerman01]

Do you think employers want the best employees relative to other candidates, or just the person who gosh darn it is happy with how good they are?

**Cough Cough, local government employees....Cough Cough**

[Lorien_the_First_One]

**Cough Cough, local government employees....Cough Cough**

I'll give you that one... but that just proves that there SHOULD be more comparison so everything doesn't end up like our $100,000 garbage collectors that had to get expensive new trucks so they wouldn't actually have to pick up the garbage anymore themselves.

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Not an issue, I was able to find it. I'm not partial to swiss much, but you need it for a good tuna melt or Ruben sandwich.

edit: Wait... this thread was able to come to an agreeable conclusion AND we had talks of cheese? And I mean food cheese, not forum cheese...

Does this qualify as an under appreciated thread win?

Emmentaler? is what makes fondu so good.

[Missing_Minds]

Emmentaler? is what makes fondu so good.

Possibly. I think the op could offer a more well formed opinion on it than I.

[Rubiconn]

Emmentaler does a good fondu make, but I suppose if you are partial to Colby,Cheddar, Brie, limburger,edam, gouda or venezuelan beaver cheese they would make a good fondu for you. Hmm that could be a bard song about cheese. It all depends on what your local cheese shop sells.

[arminius]

What everyone is doing here is not comparing.

It's contrasting.

This is why every college professor's essay question says "compare AND contrast blah blah and yada yada." It is only contrasting that makes you "hatahs," (according to this line of thinking). You'd think a Latin teacher would be less likely to get tripped up on basic definitions like that.

[Rubiconn]

Arminius I believe we have closed that subject and are now talking about cheese fondu

[Missing_Minds]

Arminius I believe we have closed that subject and are now talking about cheese fondu

And it doesn't help that it is lunch time here and the fondu is sounding really good.

[Yajerman01]

venezuelan beaver cheese

I had some of that one night after some heavy drinking. She looked like some fine swiss to me at 1.a.m. but the next morning I had to eat through my arm to get away from it.

And in the end - no matter how hard you scrub yourself in the shower, that scent lingers for a couple of days.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Arminius I believe we have closed that subject and are now talking about cheese fondu

But I don't like smelly cheeses. Can we go with chocolate fondu instead?

[Rubiconn]

But I don't like smelly cheeses. Can we go with chocolate fondu instead?

Of course with some nice fresh strawberries, bananas, apples wow I am getting really hungry.

[Mr_Ed7]

Let me help the OP fend off the Kobold Masses...

To compare my Fighter-Wizard to a full Fighter or Full Wizard is pointless...

To compare my art-project to your math problem ...also pointless..


To compare oneself to others either makes you Vain or Bitter.

[Missing_Minds]

Any one have a good suggestion or things to look for in a fondu pot? All the talk made me decide that it is about time I get one.
And yes, I am thinking multi purpose of chocolate, cheese, and meat.

[arminius]

Any one have a good suggestion or things to look for in a fondu pot? All the talk made me decide that it is about time I get one.
And yes, I am thinking multi purpose of chocolate, cheese, and meat.

Stability and ease of carrying is number one. Fondue kind of freaks me out now, to see all the people I care about in the world crowded around and poking things into and out of pots of superheated oil on the dining room table.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Is it hateful to compare cheese fondu to chocolate? :D

[Missing_Minds]

Stability and ease of carrying is number one. Fondue kind of freaks me out now, to see all the people I care about in the world crowded around and poking things into and out of pots of superheated oil on the dining room table.

I have the exact same fears. Now add in children and/or animals to the equation. (I have cats, but no kids. I worry all the same.)


Is it hateful to compare cheese fondu to chocolate? :D

There is no talk of broccoli, so it's all good. :)

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I'd just like to say that Rydin does not understand the OP's point, nor anything else in this thread.

That is all.

Oh, but I do like cheese. If it means something in this thread. I don't know. Someone mentioned cheese.

[Ashurr]

The real question is: Colby Jack or Cheddar cheese - which is better? Don't come in here with Velveeta either. That is not a real cheese.


Ultra-sharp Pinconnig Cheddar, or a nice Havarti.

[Ashurr]

Any one have a good suggestion or things to look for in a fondu pot? All the talk made me decide that it is about time I get one.
And yes, I am thinking multi purpose of chocolate, cheese, and meat.


Go for one of the older style ones ( that use the sterno can heating method) I've found that the newer self heating pots tend to scorch the cheese or chocolate on the bottom.

If going cheese, you'll want to cut your sharper tasting cheeses with a 1/3rd ratio of a milder cheese, like Gruyere/ Also, the addition of 1 cup of white wine to every 1 lb of cheese makes for a smoother consistency.