The DDO realization as it pertains to characters.

[Doganpc]

DDO is an action game with a thin RPG shell.

Your character is only limited by the RPG combat system (stats, abilities). Without the D&D flavor its just another action game. The role playing isn't what you think when you consider its theme, but more of combining various types of characters to succeed in their role. While you can roleplay in DDO to do so with your character builds will only make the game frustrating. I think most of my garbaged characters were built with my innate desire to have a theme, a feel, an edge to play. It was an interesting realization that I thought i'd share; build to win, then have fun with it.

Dogan
Progressing through the stages of noobism.

[Chai]

I role play all the time baby.

/puts on his robe and wizard hat.

[TreknaQudane]

I disagree.

You can make characters to follow a theme or idea and play from there and do fine in 92% of the games content (yes, that I made that number up) without worrying.

Now, if you figure you'll play an all STR WF Sorc that only casts repair spells and wonder why it's not working well past level 12... Thats not a failing of the RPG mechanics in the game. Thats a failure of common sense

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I sorta agree.

I've deleted a whole lot of themed char builds. The best bios I ever made were on chars I deleted because they were not good DDO char.

But, despite what the forums will tell you, this game is not so hard that it needs any specific build to suceed.

Equipment and players skill is more important than build. Although player skill gets removed in raids when you have to use someone else's tactics. Tactics designed for someone else's build.

All the skill in the world won't help you when you are told to "go up to that Pit fiend and let him smack you in the face!"

But just because you wanted to role play a 6 Con drow....does not mean that same drow cannot decide to overcome that handicap. You can role play the desire of that frail sickly intellectual as he aquires great magic to overcome his handicap. And maybe even undergo a mystic ritual to create a new body for himself...a new stronger body.

Edit: a 6 Con Drow can buy a +2 Tome in the DDO store. He can eventually wear a +6 Con item. And buy 20 Tapestry's in the AH. And get his Minos Helm. He can get a Greater False Life item. And Agent of Argonesson favor. That's a lot of HP that have nothing to do with build choices! He doesn't need all of those right away. He can wait until you are no longer having fun playing him as a squishy guy. He can take just enough of them for you to have fun with him again. Or even have a "raid" set of equipment to switch too. Take off your Char Helm and put on your Minos Helm when you have to go get smacked by a Pit Fiend. Not like Diploing him will do much good there. You can RP his gear changes to adpt to a new threat that requires him to be able to stand up to the damage. Or use a different weapon because his usual choice will not work against this foe....etc.

While I do not think RP and DDO mix well, it is not impossible to do so.

[OldAquarian]

While you can roleplay in DDO to do so with your character builds will only make the game frustrating

The idea that any build you put together should do really well in the name of roleplay is a flawed idea
The default paths should be able to do well
Putting effort and analysis or at least peer review for a build should do better
Creating builds in the name of roleplaying and not trying to optimize it for a needed role, should do poorly

Roleplay, in my experience, has very little to do with what abilities you pick. In fact you can roleplay very well at extremely low levels, as it is your behavior and interaction and not your spell list that dictates role playing. (Admitted in ddo you need to either have vet or make a toon that can get off Korthos to be able to interact with the majority of players, but thats hardly a frustrating task with even the most gimped class)

Roleplay starts with having a well thought out back story. Generally, but not neccessarily includes a flaw that you use as a foil when roleplaying. (And please, not adding a godlike ability)

It then consists of interacting with others in a manner consistant with that backstory and flaw

I fail to see how ddo builds have anything to do with this and why you feel that roleplaying would gimp a character.

EDIT: The one limitation in ddo for roleplaying would be the amount of freedom given to model your appearance, for example, you can not control your height or weight. But, in general, this is true of most MMOs. And again should not actually limit your ability to roleplay.

[sigtrent]

There are some builds that just don't work, but you can take nearly any high concept and make something workable. you may need to make a small bend to the idea to get a bit more power, but you can find a way. But the trick is it takes a lot of game knowledge to figure out how to get from concept to build.

Also it makes a big difference how much you challenge yourself. A really kick ass character can run over level and take on the hardest quests. A softer character may need to wait for a while.

Knowledge is also key. Two players can take the same build into a quest and one can dominate while the other struggles. Which weapon you use, how you move, what you do makes all the difference. Some builds that are given up for gimp are just not being used well.

[Steveohio]

Where exactly are the roleplayers hanging out in this game?
Do they even exist?
Putting a bio on your toon does not equate to roleplaying.

I'm quite serious, I've never seen one. With all the PnP'ers out there I would have assumed that I would have run into at least 1 in the past 8 months I've been playing.

I'd love to role up an RP toon and join an RP guild or RP static group. Thats ahelluva lot more interesting than zerging out your way to 20 and teh lewtz.

[OldAquarian]

Where exactly are the roleplayers hanging out in this game?
Do they even exist?
Putting a bio on your toon does not equate to roleplaying.

I'm quite serious, I've never seen one. With all the PnP'ers out there I would have assumed that I would have run into at least 1 in the past 8 months I've been playing.

I'd love to role up an RP toon and join an RP guild or RP static group. Thats ahelluva lot more interesting than zerging out your way to 20 and teh lewtz.

I would consider starting one if it didn't cost turbine $$$$ to start one
I have run a few in other MMOs and frankly there are times I'd rather just hang out and RP or run RP events
Problem as I see it is that real RP is rare in most MMOs, and ddo doesn't have a large enough player base to support a RP community

[Comfortably]

I only ERP with hot elf chicks.

[AdahnX]

I must concur. DDO does not lend itself well to "immersion in a fantasy world" despite the mention of that concept as justification of many game elements. I came here, specifically because it had "Dungeons & Dragons" in the title, having been a long time fan of PnP. I can now see that was entirely the idea, using the D20 system as a tool to draw crowds.

DDO is, as has been stated, an action game, pure and simple. The best one can hope for is to roll an established power build, and then figure out a background story of what led them down that road and how it affects their character's personality.

I do, however, have to agree that "gimping" your character on purpose in order to add an RP element is going to make the game more difficult. I thought that was kind of the idea. But in DDO, instead of role playing through the process of overcoming your handicap, you just get kicked from the group.

Maybe it would work if you came here already knowing a bunch of people from a previous RP group in another game, including what server they were on and what their character's names were. Some people aren't so lucky.

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

I only ERP with hot elf chicks.

Geez, mister- I'd settle for UGLY elf chicks.....or that tiefling chick......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UqFPujRZWo

*blushes*

[William_the_Bat]

I don't know what MMOs you've played, but nearly any MMO can be played like a spreadsheet to maximize damage over time or whatever, and quite a few people go that route. It's fun, and it's easy to measure your success.

To me roll-playing in an MMO is not so much the character choices you make. Because this is not Mass Effect, there are really only a handful of choices, and the few that actually affect your character are usually no-brainers. Let's face it, it makes little difference if you rescue the concubine slave in "The Bounty Hunter" or tell her "Why spoil a good thing?" (after which she fights you).

Real choices, like picking which religion your paladin follows, or the silver flame amulet vs the emerald claw one, tend to get picked not for flavor, but for the reward. Seriously, when was the last time you even heard of someone picking the emerald claw amulet?

They made such choices in Asheron's Call, and people freaked out that they "had" to pick the "correct" choice to optimize their character. Asheron's Call obviously had a much stronger roll-playing community, but even they didn't so much form all RP groups and play gimped characters as altering their manner of speech (or typing, as the case may be) depending on which character they played. And while more than a few of us made the few real choices in the game based on in-character reasons (whispering blade FTW), most people were content to just find out which choice their friends were making and make the same choice.

It made for some great in-game conflict, but since the competitive aspects of DDO are played down (this is a good thing, the player base here is very different) I don't see it as working here.

[Mr_Ed7]

My build of a 10 Fighter-10 Wizard is not an optimum build.

He is fun to play, and I may never of had that fun if I just buillt toons stacking the numbers and making a cookie-cutter build.

[Mr_Ed7]

Seriously, when was the last time you even heard of someone picking the emerald claw amulet?


Darkside supports the Emerald Claw.

For my characters of the darker sort I did pick the Emerald Claw. My paladins and what not choose the other.

I was accused of cheating in pvp since I usually have it equipped.

[Mr_Ed7]

After reading several of the posts I see a familiar theme that I have encountered in the past. It seems as though there are two differnet schools of thought on player builds.

Loosely it is mmorpg players and paper and pencil players on opposite camps on how one should make a toon. Sure there will be crossovers in beliefs from both sides.
Any exceptions do not nullify my generality.

I am a long-time D&D player on his first mmorpg. Being that ignorance is bliss; I say experiment with builds, have fun.

I do beleive its my traditional D&D views that a character does not have to be a Superman and still have fun with faults and flaws in tow.

Critics are not the ones in the arena. That being said I have garnished harsh criticism for my fighter-wizard, my ranger archer, and my shield-bearing paladin.

They all have been succesful and fun to play.

This sort of gaming philosophy has gained the ire of other so called uber, end-game players who believe there playstyle should be the one to adhere to.

What's worse are the players who refuse to play with certain toons, not because of a bad experience but rather disapproval of a build over any real evidence besides myddo.

To those that are concerned about being blacklisted for the way you build your toon...realize this...

You do not want to play with those types of players either.

Play the game and have fun.

Understand there are several playstyles in game.

In paper and pencil you learned how to deal with party members weaknesses, the same should be done here in ddo as well.

Play the game.

[Talon_Sky]

Remember that actions in the game can be role play as well. My Drow detests other drow, so in combat I beeline for the first enemy drow I see. If there's a drow archer and a human wizard, say, I will go after the archer.

Is it smart? No, not usually. But it's what my character would do. When I'm in a group with my guild, I'll make surly comments to drow NPC's (which are fairly rare from what I've seen O.o ). There's a fair bit of RPing out there, and how you do it is up to you.

That's not saying it can't be done or that people won't mock you....but hey, that's why there's an ignore feature.

[sacredtheory]

I role play all the time baby.

/puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Me too

/pulls out the leather chaps, whips, and handcuffs

[Belwaar]

Me too

/pulls out the leather chaps, whips, and handcuffs

:p

[Doganpc]

Play the game and have fun.

Understand there are several playstyles in game.

In paper and pencil you learned how to deal with party members weaknesses, the same should be done here in ddo as well.

Play the game.You made a point and provided something I felt needed some embellishment. Indeed there are many play styles and for some people (such as my Dad) seemingly frustrating, head on wall bashing, nearly masochistic road blocks are entertaining obstacles to overcome. While I like a good challenge, I don't like bashing my head against a wall until I realize how to get around (or through). To me its a time invested vs reward gotten. Naturally the concept of reward worth gotten changes for each person and situation.

Anyhow, i'm not making this realization of mine out to be some universal theory. It is an observation based generalization from reading various posts in these forums, dealing with people in game, and my own experiments in character design. Gimped character builds are hard to play and it doesn't matter if its on purpose. In hindsight its so obvious, but learning the difference between a Gimp and a Solid character build isn't.

Dogan
You'll eventually play as you like, even if its not DDO.

[KoobTheProud]

EDIT: The one limitation in ddo for roleplaying would be the amount of freedom given to model your appearance, for example, you can not control your height or weight. But, in general, this is true of most MMOs. And again should not actually limit your ability to roleplay.

The inability to model your appearance much in terms of height and weight actually contributes to other people's ability to roleplay. I've played games where you could make very fat characters or very skinny ones, or tall ones or short ones. It always forced a heavy suspension of disbelief for me in the process when I saw a very rotund character sprint by me at Olympic sprinter speed, or a small skinny guy wielding a two handed sword that was as tall as he was without any apparent difficulty.

Most adventurers of the type that we are playing likely would fall into a fairly narrow range of fitness and health, Raistlin not withstanding. If you think about it even the fact that the average player routinely runs for more than a hundred yards at a time without taking a breather is fairly strange. A real roleplaying game would make you mount a horse for fast movement over time and even then you'd have to stop for water and to give them a breather fairly often. So roleplaying is not really a valid concern unless it is accompanied by a vast array of other decisions to do things suboptimally, like be in walk mode 99% of the time, alongside all the roleplaying.

[Kadran]

Now, if you figure you'll play an all STR WF Sorc that only casts repair spells and wonder why it's not working well past level 12... Thats not a failing of the RPG mechanics in the game. Thats a failure of common sense

See the sig. This is exactly what I do, and it works the entire game. 90% of my spells cast are buffs or repairs.

[TruhlsRuhk]

Being a veteran of MMO's and a long time fan of D&D I find that roleplay lacks in both areas. Most PnP roleplay by the witty banter back and forth across the table and the comments like" What are you doing?" or "What where you thinking?" depending on the situation and the outcome of that situation. You see in MMO's and other online games you have the "cookie cutter" philosophy. You pick your race/class and you start playing, trying to be the best and have the best of everything. Even role players want the best gear.

Someone mentioned in some games you can have total control over your characters appearance from weight and height and so forth, that is a great aspect to have in any game and should be a staple in all MMO games. But you still fall into the cookie cutter mold with those. Until someone allows me or anyone else to spend hours just creating a character, and going for the look I want for my roleplay toon and background its still cookie cutter.

On the Roleplay aspect of it, a lot of MMO's that I have played either shun the roleplayers, which forces them to do it in secret or private or they stop all together. Some games I have played have RP guilds which is required in all chat except the global chat. I have seen RP raid guilds, though most of those fail because in the end if you want to see in game content its not about your character and their story but about loot and gear.

DDO can support a RP community, even if its small if enough people wanted one. I like the idea of building a toon to look the way you want it to, not because it will get dropped from a group because of your build. Elitist players exist in all games, don't let them ruin your fun if you want to make your character the way you want to play him. Even a gimped character can be fun and useful. Myself I started a Trapest.. a spin off the tempest build. In the end he will do decent to above average DPS and open about 90% of all the traps in the game and disable 90% of all the devices in the game. Hes a dwarf and he hates elves of all sorts. not the cookie cutter race people expect but fun for me. AS someone said earlier, Play the game and have fun doing it. This shouldn't be a job, it is not meant to be.