Tolero -- Isn't it about time to tell us more about update 5?

[Gai-jin]

Please?

As best as I can figure, update 5 should be out sometime right around the first week June based on the "6 updates in 2010" statements earlier this year. That puts us probably 3-5 weeks away. Assuming that's correct, how about giving us some info on how the new guild stuff is going to work?

And perhaps you could tell us when we could preview update 5 on lammania?

[Cashiry]

Mid-July is when it will most likely be out. If its on Lamania by June 1st then maybe it will go live around the 4th of July...

If it hasn't hit ML yet then the following will happen:

3-4 weeks after it hits ML's it will arrive on Lamania, then 3-4 weeks for live servers....

[Henrieta]

Something would be greatly appreciated!

[Gai-jin]

Mid-July is when it will most likely be out. If its on Lamania by June 1st then maybe it will go live around the 4th of July...

If it hasn't hit ML yet then the following will happen:

3-4 weeks after it hits ML's it will arrive on Lamania, then 3-4 weeks for live servers....

See, now even some insight as to the expected release date would be nice. Not a hard date mind you, but couple of weeks timeframe, or even what month would be nice.

I don't see turbine getting 6 updates out in the year if update 5 does make it till mid july, but I suppose anything's possible.

[Daehawk]

See, now even some insight as to the expected release date would be nice. Not a hard date mind you, but couple of weeks timeframe, or even what month would be nice.

I don't see turbine getting 6 updates out in the year if update 5 does make it till mid july, but I suppose anything's possible.

Expected Timeline they can say: Soon™

Well they are supposedly releasing 1 every 2 months. Which is why most of us are putting U5 during June. With Lam being mainly just a preview server and not one where changes will be made, just to see how it functions with more people on it before it's released onto live it could be there for as short as a week if needed.

[lutherl]

Here's the Dev's Dilemma as I see it (and it's by no means limited to Turbine/DDO...it's widespread through the industry):

If they don't announce ___X___ (and it really doesn't matter what X is, whether it's a release date, features in an upcoming expansion/update/etc...whatever the players are looking forward to), they get lambasted on the forums for not giving out info.

If they announce ___X____ (again, it really doesn't matter what) and for some reason things go sideways and ___X___ doesn't happen, again they get lambasted on the forums.

I suspect this is a large reason why some devs in some companies just stop talking to players. I suspect that's one of the things that gave rise to the position of Community Representatives (because CEO's realized someone had to brave the forums and talk to the players).

I really don't envy them their position.

[AZgreentea]

Here's the Dev's Dilemma as I see it (and it's by no means limited to Turbine/DDO...it's widespread through the industry):

If they don't announce ___X___ (and it really doesn't matter what X is, whether it's a release date, features in an upcoming expansion/update/etc...whatever the players are looking forward to), they get lambasted on the forums for not giving out info.

If they announce ___X____ (again, it really doesn't matter what) and for some reason things go sideways and ___X___ doesn't happen, again they get lambasted on the forums.

I suspect this is a large reason why some devs in some companies just stop talking to players. I suspect that's one of the things that gave rise to the position of Community Representatives (because CEO's realized someone had to brave the forums and talk to the players).

I really don't envy them their position.
Exactly. Take Half orcs as the perfect example with Turbine. Even when they release them, they will still have to hear about how long it took them and hear the speculation/criticism over why. Then, they will have to listen to criticism over any perceived imperfection compared to how long people waited for them.

Loose/Loose is a sucky position to be in. Thats why the Devs tend to be hesitant with info. Better to not tell people as much than to tell them too much. Of course, then you have to listen too "OMG, these changes are huge, why didnt you tell us!?!"..... :(

[kingfisher]

Lmao

[Diarden]

Loose/Loose is a sucky position to be in.


That's what she said?

[Gai-jin]

Oh, I definitely get that they are in a tough spot when it comes to what to give out when. Still, they announced the content last month. Time has passed, and hopefully now a bit more information could be available. A little more insight on the guild leveling system that is 'similar to favor, but totally different' would be great. Or a simple 'we expect it in (early june, late june, mid july, etc). Nothing too precise as to tie them down to an exact date but some kind of reasonable estimate.

Or, even better, bring back the WDAs! :)

[lutherl]

Time has passed, and hopefully now a bit more information could be available. A little more insight on the guild leveling system that is 'similar to favor, but totally different' would be great. Or a simple 'we expect it in (early june, late june, mid july, etc). Nothing too precise as to tie them down to an exact date but some kind of reasonable estimate.

I'm sure a ton of information could be made available. And while you might be reasonable, and realize that "we hope..." isn't "crucify is if we can't deliver".

However, other people aren't reasonable enough to "get" that.

[Creeper]

Exactly. Take Half orcs as the perfect example with Turbine. Even when they release them, they will still have to hear about how long it took them and hear the speculation/criticism over why. Then, they will have to listen to criticism over any perceived imperfection compared to how long people waited for them.



Would that criticism somehow seem unfair to you?

[Borror0]

Here's the Dev's Dilemma as I see it (and it's by no means limited to Turbine/DDO...it's widespread through the industry):
It's a bit more complicated than a dilemma.

Like you said, if they don't announce anything they'll get attacked for not talking and if they announce it but it gets delayed they get attacked for not being trustworthy. But that's not all, even if they announce something early and then release it on time, it might end up biting them in the ass because they have been too vague and players have massive expectations. When players have massive expectations, it does not matter how good your new feature is; you'll surely disappoint them.

The date to release information has to be early enough so that players don't get too impatient, but late enough so that you can both be certain that it will be on time and be certain enough to give details about the change. Failing that, you'll anger your players or create unreasonable expectations. Not easy at all.

Another problem that Turbine's community managers has to deal with is that a sizable portion of the forum population has been around for a long, long time where the level of community was much greater than it is now. Since DDO is doing much better now, and that there is no "Top Secret" project underdevelopment anymore, they expect communication of pre-Module 6 levels. Since veterans feel entitled to such communication, any new player that enters with the expectations that Turbine with communicated openly feel justified to think so because everyone else thinks so! This puts a pressure for them to communicate earlier than they might want to.

[IronClan]

Add to all that, that the people who are the most angry/upset/disappointed/self entitled/expectant represent probably 1 or 2% of the userbase and are motivated by many false perceptions, silly notions of how things should work, unrealistic world views, and in most cases a complete and utter lack of knowledge about the inner workings of game development.

If you release with (any) bugs the forum users will tell you to "take the time to get it right we can wait" if a feature takes a long time to get working they will say "what the hell took so long!!!" if a feature is "tentatively" announced or shown in a preview somewhere they will say "you promised us this feature" if features are mentioned as a maybe, and they don't show up in the next update it's a "why did you lie to us"...

[Eladiun]

Please see this thread...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=248363

...now why would they post anything till it's final?

[AZgreentea]

Would that criticism somehow seem unfair to you?

I wouldnt go so far as to say "unfair", as some criticism was deserved. I just think some of the criticism has gotten a little silly. Where turbine made a mistake was indicating it was "coming soon", rather than "we are working on it, and it's a big project so it may take a while with the other stuff we have going on" or "Due to unforeseen circumstances we have to delay Half orcs". Once you let the genie out of the bottle, you cant just leave it at that.

But my point is, turbine will get criticized by SOME part of the community for any announced or unannounced thing they do. Thats where people like Tollero and Tarrant have to be careful about WHAT they tell the community. It's this reason that PR is a multi million dollar industry.

So give us more info! lol. Just because I understand, dosent mean I dont want to know!

[Gai-jin]

The only thing I had heard about half orcs was that they were coming late this year. Was there somethign I missed?

As for the druid thread, I would expect that we might have heard something more by now. I didn't hear anything about druids in the recent PAX interviews, so I expect they're not coming anytime soon. Still, acknowledgement of that from the devs would be nice.

[Eladiun]

The only thing I had heard about half orcs was that they were coming late this year. Was there somethign I missed?

As for the druid thread, I would expect that we might have heard something more by now. I didn't hear anything about druids in the recent PAX interviews, so I expect they're not coming anytime soon. Still, acknowledgement of that from the devs would be nice.

Druids have been coming since Day 1...I have filed them in the myth category with Diploing chests.

[Rasczak]

Druids have been coming since Day 1...I have filed them in the myth category with Diploing chests.

They are here, I've been playing with them every day. Long haired hippies that transform into something that looks useful but dies everytime a wolf gets hit. Ring a bell through voice chat, they go afk in search of food....

[TechNoFear]

Here's the Dev's Dilemma as I see it (and it's by no means limited to Turbine/DDO...it's widespread through the industry):

If they don't announce ___X___ (and it really doesn't matter what X is, whether it's a release date, features in an upcoming expansion/update/etc...whatever the players are looking forward to), they get lambasted on the forums for not giving out info.

If they announce ___X____ (again, it really doesn't matter what) and for some reason things go sideways and ___X___ doesn't happen, again they get lambasted on the forums.

I suspect this is a large reason why some devs in some companies just stop talking to players. I suspect that's one of the things that gave rise to the position of Community Representatives (because CEO's realized someone had to brave the forums and talk to the players).

I really don't envy them their position.

You really think Turbine case that much about what is said on the forums? If it bothered that much the mods could just remove/edit the posts.

I thought it was more to do with the players/revenue generated by publicising releases on gaming sites (which requires new information to be effective).

[Timjc86]

Loose/Loose is a sucky position to be in.That's what she said?

L O L!

Quote of the month right here.

[Gai-jin]

Pretty Please?

[SaisMatters]

Perhaps if we start having "Hug a Dev Day", show some love to them and try to coax them out of the hidden holes that we've chased them into with all our whining and demanding of them, perhaps then, if we make them feel confident we won't hurt and verbally abuse them, than, just mabey, they'll share their plans with us!!
I'll start now.
Tarant, Tolero, and all other devs. **HUG**

[systemstate]

Expected Timeline they can say: Soon™

+1 for the rofl!