Winstance and Tempest

[grodon9999]

I know from my Exploiter that Windstance to some degree does stack with tempest. The whole Ninja thing has me pondering a 12Monk/6 Ranger/2 Rogue and I'm wondering with it's a good idea.

How fast would this guys swing? Does anyone have an accurate measure on this?

[SolarDawning]

10% tempest, +7.5% insight Wind Stance III, +(12.5% enhancement Wind Stance III OR 15% Enhancement Haste OR 20% enhancement Madstone Rage) +15% Rogue Haste Boost 1

Equals... A lot.

[Eurytos]

Imagine the horror if this build becomes flavor of the month and you have a raid filled with them. The lag would be amazing.

[grodon9999]

Imagine the horror if this build becomes flavor of the month and you have a raid filled with them. The lag would be amazing.

I said it in your thread - this is the next Exploiter. mark my words.

[D'rin]

Does the tempest work with unarmed?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Tempest only works when dual wielding real weapons.

monk 'flurry of blows super secret undocumented alacrity bonus' is approximately 8% and is only active when unarmed so the benefits of going tempest/monk are marginal at best.



All weapon styles should have the same number of main hand attacks per minute if you stand there holding down the attack button. (Except monk unarmed combat, which is around 10-12% faster. Flurry of blows!)


Garth

[ripperj]

monk 'flurry of blows super secret undocumented alacrity bonus' is approximately 8% and is only active when unarmed so the benefits of going tempest/monk are marginal at best.



undocumented being the key word here, I dont think there is any speed bonus, atleast not attack speed
monks get increased movement speed - something else
otherwise, flury of blows only puts monks BAB up with the other melees

[REALb0r3d]

Maybe my tempest monk won't be gimped anymore :D

Mwa... mwahaha... MWAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

[LupusVai]

Now I am quite probably mistaken on this but isnt tempest an insight bonus to attack speed? If so then it doesnt stack with another insight bonus. (from wind stance for example)

Or is tempest an untyped speed bonus? If so then thats a pretty interesting idea for sure. I said i wouldnt start any more alts but the below as drow for racial enhancments to short swords is so shiny. ;-)

[Aerendil]

Tempest haste = competence bonus.

Windstance = enhancement + insight.

As for the Exploiter build, I don't see it taking off.
As mentioned above, Tempest doesn't work with unarmed - and by splashing 6 levels to get Tempest haste you're essentially limiting yourself to shortswords and kamas only. But you give up tier III PrE, grandmaster stances, DR 10/epic, and you limit your unarmed attacks to 2d6 damage (which isn't altogether bad, but is noticeably worse than a pure monk).

I still think pure monk is the way to go, even if you want to toy around with shortswords.
You still get grandmaster wind stance, so if you use SSs you're still bloody fast, but retain full unarmed advantages and Monk ki finisher DCs.

[grodon9999]

Tempest haste = competence bonus.

Windstance = enhancement + insight.

As for the Exploiter build, I don't see it taking off.
As mentioned above, Tempest doesn't work with unarmed - and by splashing 6 levels to get Tempest haste you're essentially limiting yourself to shortswords and kamas only. But you give up tier III PrE, grandmaster stances, DR 10/epic, and you limit your unarmed attacks to 2d6 damage (which isn't altogether bad, but is noticeably worse than a pure monk).

I still think pure monk is the way to go, even if you want to toy around with shortswords.
You still get grandmaster wind stance, so if you use SSs you're still bloody fast, but retain full unarmed advantages and Monk ki finisher DCs.

You could be right, and I honestly don't know monks well enough to know one way or the other. All I know is with my 12/6/2 idea and relatively easy to get gear, I can have 30 STR and 70+ AC, critting on a 17 while using green steel. Full UMD, full rogue skills, two favored enemies for +6 damage, manyshot for situational bow usuage, etc . . . and still be able to switch to weighted handwraps with that 500 point punch when that'd be useful.

[Aerendil]

^^ Yep, not saying it wouldn't work at all, but there does seem to be less synergy with the monk exploiter than with the ranger exploiter.
Monk you'd give up quite a bit, get thrown out of stances if you use a bow, have to switch out weapons to use your ToD, etc., whereas the ranger-based exploiter is pretty synergetic (if that's a word).

Next best thing I'm predicting will be the monk-based rogue ravager build.
It's the ravager with shortswords instead of khopeshes, but with exploiter-level AC, lots of feats to customize, and a 25% self-blur. Looks to be very, very survivable.

[rest]

Funny story: I have a 12/6/2 kama user already. Yeah, he's not great DPS but he is TONS of fun. He was actually the toon that I capped the fastest.

[LupusVai]

Tempest haste = competence bonus.

Windstance = enhancement + insight.



Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Aerendil]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Yep, no worries. Tempest haste was previously "untyped", but is now considered to be "competence" so it currently stacks with anything.

The other type of bonus that currently stacks with all haste types is "sacred" from the Paladin's Zeal spell.
This is other really nice split I can see happening - an 14 Paladin / 6 Monk twin shortsword, evasion, haste-stanced + Zeal holy warrior.

*edit* - 14/6 split, not 18/2. Not sure why 18/2 was in my head - way too popular a split for Paladins I guess. But 14/6 will still give Zeal.

[grodon9999]

Funny story: I have a 12/6/2 kama user already. Yeah, he's not great DPS but he is TONS of fun. He was actually the toon that I capped the fastest.

Yes - because they ROCK at quests but are disadvantaged at beating a static target for 5 minutes. Quests can be done with stat-damagers and vorpals, against raid-bosses only thing that works is pure DPS.

Short-swords aren't the holy grail but it'll help. My idea will also have 30 STR with Ram's might and easy-to-get gear.

[rest]

Yes - because they ROCK at quests but are disadvantaged at beating a static target for 5 minutes. Quests can be done with stat-damagers and vorpals, against raid-bosses only thing that works is pure DPS.

Short-swords aren't the holy grail but it'll help. My idea will also have 30 STR with Ram's might and easy-to-get gear.

Absolutely he is a solo questing monster... but when shortmanning shroud, i have to go unarmed to take down one of the lieutenants solo in part 2 :(

My guy is hitting 28 str with rams. Here he is in all his gimped glory (http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/niikolai/)

[REALb0r3d]

Funny story: I have a 12/6/2 kama user already. Yeah, he's not great DPS but he is TONS of fun. He was actually the toon that I capped the fastest.

I have an 11rog/6rng/3mnk kama user. Kamamma chameleon? Looks like with the new pre ill be rockin SS. Might be able to farm enough epic tokens to reincarnate into something useful now :D

[rest]

I have an 11rog/6rng/3mnk kama user. Kamamma chameleon? Looks like with the new pre ill be rockin SS. Might be able to farm enough epic tokens to reincarnate into something useful now :D

Nah i didn't take anyone's build advice. Mine was just self built to be a tempest kama user. 12 levels of monk for abundant step and the 3rd tier of stances, 6 ranger for tempest I and the 2 rogue for UMD and other skills. I doub't I'll switch him to short swords, but who knows. He is a light monk at the moment so the feat swap is prohibitively expensive :/

[Desteria]

My old ac build monk is a tempest monk, the 6 ranger gives you Rams, 2 favored enemies with a a few ranks fo favored damage, 2 levels of ranger DEX, so for a dex build it's GREAT, getitng twin min2 kamas or the likes and you do swing VERY fast, adn the dps is good, sure my guy is not beattign any top end dps builds, but then hes a AC guy, adn while havign what was untochable ac, he still pulls aggro away in pugs a lot while wearign the thrans set for -20% thret.

[rest]

With the new information regarding longswords being able to be a centered weapon, I foresee myself tracking down some sweet longswords and maybe trying those on for size!