Harry Beaters and elitist jerks

[shaolaolint]

So not gonna name names, but I hit up an lfm for a shroud. A raid that I've shortmanned and completed over 25 times on my main. Was told to link to Harry beaters. I showed how I dual wield two tier 2 min IIs. Was told sorry and booted. The thing is that I tried dual wielding +5 mets of PG and found my min IIs to cause more damge. Am I wrong?

[Gunga]

Don't sweat them man. If they can't take you because you only use 2 tier two min IIs, than that leadership aint looking so good.

[CaptainPurge]

oops

[Lleren]

I think I ended up in that raid tonight. He/she/it wasn't impressed by my little +1 Holybursting/Silver Greataxe. Had to remind them I was a Frenzied Berserker and had another 6d6 on every attack when it mattered.

Afterwards I wondered if they knew my Greataxe does break Harry's DR.
----------

The leadership was nonexistant if it was the run I was thinking of, unless all the talk was on a private Vent server. I didn't see that many members from the same guild though.

[dj.kickz]

So not gonna name names, but I hit up an lfm for a shroud. A raid that I've shortmanned and completed over 25 times on my main. Was told to link to Harry beaters. I showed how I dual wield two tier 2 min IIs. Was told sorry and booted. The thing is that I tried dual wielding +5 mets of PG and found my min IIs to cause more damge. Am I wrong?

Hey shao, ur +5 met of PG will do more damage. Harries immune to acid. T2 lightning strikes might do more damage but i haven't run the numbers to be sure. T3 min2 is obviously more damage then +5 met of pg. and T3 lit 2's are more damage then min2's on normal even tho they dont break DR. on hard or elite tho, bypass DR or go home.

[Missing_Minds]

Honestly, the reason why the Min II wasn't wanted is due to DPS lag. Players have been doing less damage to try to keep a cap on dps lag so heals go off properly.

[dj.kickz]

Honestly, the reason why the Min II wasn't wanted is due to DPS lag. Players have been doing less damage to try to keep a cap on dps lag so heals go off properly.

this bodes well for my all club of the holy flame shroud that's coming up!

[Ethias]

Honestly, the reason why the Min II wasn't wanted is due to DPS lag. Players have been doing less damage to try to keep a cap on dps lag so heals go off properly.

that's insane. Is that really a concern at end game here? Doing so much damage that it lags out the dungeon? O.o

[shaolaolint]

Ty for all the feedback guys.

Re: lag, I've never heard of people limiting dps. I know in a few ToD runs I've been in people have stalled dps to fix lag, but never in a shroud that I've been in.

Re: +5 Mets of PG; I never did the math, but I notice more higher numbers with my mins. Gotta remember, base damage is higher and one has holy burst, which seems to crit. Not to forget that my two levels of rogue also give me a sneak attack bonus.

I guess it all doesn't matter right now, since now shao is a 3rd level barb. I took the TR plunge.

[Vua]

Honestly, the reason why the Min II wasn't wanted is due to DPS lag. Players have been doing less damage to try to keep a cap on dps lag so heals go off properly.

DPS lag isn't usually a problem in PUGS on Cannith. Maybe a couple of the guild runs but not PUGS.

[BattleCircle]

don't Sweat Them Man. If They Can't Take You Because You Only Use 2 Tier Two Min Iis, Than That Leadership Aint Looking So Good.

Qft

[dj.kickz]

DPS lag isn't usually a problem in PUGS on Cannith. Maybe a couple of the guild runs but not PUGS.

dps lag shows up where ever i go on Cannith... wait or was that syphilis...

[Lleren]

dps lag shows up where ever i go on Cannith... wait or was that syphilis...

I think you mean Warforged with leaks.

[shadosatblackphoenix]

MinII without tier 3 is a weapon where Harry is immune to part of the special damage (acid) and doesn't go through DR (no metalline). If its a high damage 2handed, it will do okay, but dual weilded it will be fairly weak. You may see higher numbers on crits if its a high multiplier weapon (like a kopesh) and you're a frenzied barb to boost that up, but do keep in mind harry has some fortification, so crits don't happen every 4 hits.

If I asked someone if they have harry beaters, and they link me that (without any explainations at least), I'd think "This guy just does whatever people tell him without any understanding of WHY min2 is good, and he also doesn't understand why silver + good is recommended in Shroud".

Not even a matter of damage at this point, its a matter of wanting people in a party who can communicate.

A little like how if I'm looking for a tank in a party, and a ranger with 100+ AC and a splash for intimidate tries to join, when the LFM states barb/pld/fighter... Obviously the guy IS a tank, but he better tell me before hitting lfm, else I'll just think he cannot read.

[Spookyaction]

When i join a shroud i want to complete. So I appreciate a leader who is going to vet people who join the group. The fact that you had 2 incomplete min 2 with no explanation would make me think you didnt understand whats required.

[Vua]

dps lag shows up where ever i go on Cannith... wait or was that syphilis...

Well your guild is one of the "couple" I mentioned that can cause this problem so I'd probably say both. Not all lag in the Shroud is caused by DPS though. That quest, especially part 1 has always had issues which I'm sure you're aware of.

[Missing_Minds]

MinII without tier 3 is a weapon where Harry is immune to part of the special damage (acid) and doesn't go through DR (no metalline).

um... That would be called a Min I. A Min II IS a tier 3 weapon.

[Raelys]

um... That would be called a Min I. A Min II IS a tier 3 weapon.

While it's confusing and a bit silly, it's not that unusual for people to refer to a weapon as a Min II (or anything II) before it's fully upgraded because that's what they intend for it to be. Given that the OP used the same terminology


I showed how I dual wield two tier 2 min IIs.

purposefully calling them "Min I's" in order to enforce correct terminology would just detract from the point of the post. There's the argument that the weapons the OP was using were not Min IIs, only Min Is, and thus won't outdamage something that bypasses DR, but I think that's what Shados was trying to say anyway. =)

To the OP: I don't know if the person was being elitist or not, and I haven't done all of the math to confirm, but it takes fairly specific circumstances to get better numbers with Min I's (using correct terminology! =P) as opposed to +5 Metalline of PGs. It's possible if you're completely dex base (very low str), don't have a bard in the party (for +damage), and get lucky on crits for Good Burst (GS only get Good Burst, which is 1d6 + more on crit as opposed to Holy Burst which is 2d6 + more on crit), but that's not something I would generally bank on. Especially since Harry has some sort of fortification. As for the sneak attack damage from rogue, that's completely independant of your weapon, so it really shouldn't affect your weapon choice unless it's a difference between single or dual wielding.

It's completely after the fact now since you said you've TR'd into a barb, but it's something to keep in mind when you get back into Shroud range. =) On a barb especially, you'll want to be bypassing DR.

[Vua]

Forget it. Don't feel like arguing today.

[Khelden]

Well I never go in these raids since I don't have a harry beater yet, got a tier 2 greataxe which I don't even use because I get more DPS from my other weapons. Anyway, I think it's kinda dumb to require a hary beater for a run on normal, I never had trouble DPSing harry and even got the aggro with my scrappy weapon on very succesful raids.

The harry beater thingy just reminds me of Gearscore on WoW: Worse **** ever. Anyway, I don't see how people can make their harry beater if they need it to enter the raid lol. As for vets, I think that the good veterans already have a friend list of other veterans large enough to avoid the LFM.

[Phidius]

Gee, I'm starting to think I won't get in with my ML 6 +1 Metalline Flametouched Iron Long Sword of Maiming...



:D

[shadosatblackphoenix]

Well I never go in these raids since I don't have a harry beater yet, got a tier 2 greataxe which I don't even use because I get more DPS from my other weapons. Anyway, I think it's kinda dumb to require a hary beater for a run on normal, I never had trouble DPSing harry and even got the aggro with my scrappy weapon on very succesful raids.

The harry beater thingy just reminds me of Gearscore on WoW: Worse **** ever. Anyway, I don't see how people can make their harry beater if they need it to enter the raid lol. As for vets, I think that the good veterans already have a friend list of other veterans large enough to avoid the LFM.

You dont need a harry beater to make a harry beater. You just hit the AH and there's some on this server for the amount of gold you can make for pawning loots from a single mindsunder run. Or hell, you can get them pretty quick on your own too.

The main thing is that they're so easy to get for everything but monks, even on your first character, and that the DR is (I think) around 25 (just think how much damage you do with bard buffs... this is higher), that there's no real reasons not to have it.

I personally don't check (I'm more anal about healers having quicken), but i can see why someone would care.

[Matuse]

The shroud runs where the leader talks about linking a harry beater in the LFM message are ones that I don't apply to....and I never hit harry at all. One less healer for j00!

The quest is easily beaten without them...how does these guys think it was done in the first place?

[shadosatblackphoenix]

The shroud runs where the leader talks about linking a harry beater in the LFM message are ones that I don't apply to....and I never hit harry at all. One less healer for j00!

The quest is easily beaten without them...how does these guys think it was done in the first place?

Again...harry beaters don't come from Shroud =P Just one particular type of greensteel can act as harry beaters. People aren't asking everyone to come with Min 2. Just to come with some everyday dirt cheap off the AH dime a douzen metalline/silver + good.

The quest can be done without them, but if -no one- has any in your party, basically only barbarians will be hitting for more than 0 along with the odd fighter/paladin that has super strength and rogues (sneak attack)... I'm not sure "easily" is a qualifier you can use when talking about how it can be beaten that way.

[Spiffyspiffy]

So not gonna name names, but I hit up an lfm for a shroud. A raid that I've shortmanned and completed over 25 times on my main. Was told to link to Harry beaters. I showed how I dual wield two tier 2 min IIs. Was told sorry and booted. The thing is that I tried dual wielding +5 mets of PG and found my min IIs to cause more damge. Am I wrong?

At normal, you're not wrong.

12 rogues dual wielding holy clubs and only using pots could do shroud on normal. This "link weapons" **** is silly.

[Demeron]

I did not like that Peep`s say things like Link Beaters, but i change my Mind and now when i LFM i will only take Guys that are abel to show a Masterwor Dagger, for Helaer is the min 20 Masterwork Healer Kits and Casters they not have the starter Wand any more have no chance on my LFM`S.


What will we see next? Be over 21, know the Text of the Song Mama Mia from Abba, u must have read the bibel?

We all started once and a fail dose not kill any one. Be nice give New Players a hand make sure u know at least some of the Players in your party. And Most Impotend HAVE FUN