2h Warchanter bard viable at end game?

[Ethias]

So, I have been reading over another thread on these forums, and I had a question relating to the build but not directly relevant to the topic; since I didn't want to derail discussion on the build itself, as this topic could get people riled up and I wanted to leave that thread for questions on that build, but expand on the discussion a bit that was in the thread earlier.

I've found a couple of thread about Warchanter 2h builds. However, there's always a naysayer in them warning that at endgame, epic content and raids, the Warchanter's hit and BAB will be too low to even bother with meleeing, sometimes basically implying such a build is a liability or at least not providing near enough to the party to warrant their slot compared to a different warchanter build.

I understand how and why a racial-weapon based twf warchanter (especially with rogue levels) could be high DPS, but... well, I don't want to play one. I am currently loving my 2h Warchanter, but I do not want to be a liability on him if I ever get into endgame content.

So, does anyone have experience in current endgame content as a 2h Warchanter? Do you do okay? What build are you working with?

[Uska]

I hope they are in any case the boost they provide to the rest of party's dps should make them invalueable I am keeping my bard 2hf and pure even if she wont personaly have the highest dps she will do some and make sure the party dps is A #1

[Bilger]

So, I have been reading over another thread on these forums, and I had a question relating to the build but not directly relevant to the topic; since I didn't want to derail discussion on the build itself, as this topic could get people riled up and I wanted to leave that thread for questions on that build, but expand on the discussion a bit that was in the thread earlier.

I've found a couple of thread about Warchanter 2h builds. However, there's always a naysayer in them warning that at endgame, epic content and raids, the Warchanter's hit and BAB will be too low to even bother with meleeing, sometimes basically implying such a build is a liability or at least not providing near enough to the party to warrant their slot compared to a different warchanter build.

I understand how and why a racial-weapon based twf warchanter (especially with rogue levels) could be high DPS, but... well, I don't want to play one. I am currently loving my 2h Warchanter, but I do not want to be a liability on him if I ever get into endgame content.

So, does anyone have experience in current endgame content as a 2h Warchanter? Do you do okay? What build are you working with?

The people who say that a bard especially a WC is not viable at end game have no clue about bards.

I would personally take a bard before another melee for a few reasons.

SONGS - the DPS and + to hit they add in epic is worth more than dps can add.
DPS - WC bring good dps to a group while swinging weaps.added with there songs and the dps they bring themselves not much better IMO

I have run epics plenty of times as bard and without songs alot turn PA off and fight that way with a BARD they can keep it on.

I see no reason to not take a slot up in a party with a good bard.

Others will say I am wrong and In there opinion I am but a bard brings so much more IMO to a party than extra melee.

[Failedlegend]

I dunno if you want to stay pure or not but bardbarians are quite formidable selfbuffing THF Warforged or human (that extra feat cna REALLY help) warchanter melee toons (most commonly 14/6 or 16/4)

[sirgog]

Bards can get good enough To-Hit at endgame.

Despite not yet being geared, my 20th level pure Warchanter can hit often enough to land stuns dualwielding Weighted 5% weapons in Epics. This will only get better when I'm able to use Greensteel Earthgrab or Freezing Ice picks instead (as they are +5, and my Weighted 5% weapons are +2 and +3 and aren't my Weapon Focus weapon either).

THF bards have higher potential To-Hit than TWF ones do, so you'll be fine.

[Gnorbert]

I'm planning and have started a 14/6 elf bard/barb focusing on Falchions. I don't foresee issues and while race and weapon are more choices based on a PnP char concept, I'm having a blast with him. Feats are tight on a warchanter/frenzied berzerker and I'll have to live without GTHF and Extend but I'm ok with that. (will swap one back in if I can craft him a nice weapon)

Stick to your THF... it will work.

[Krag]

TWF bards are a tiny bit more useful endgame because they can swing weighted 5% weapons more often per attack chain. In raids the difference between TWF and THF bards is negligible.

[ayondie]

three words when it comes to bab ... "divine power clickie" ftw

[Bilger]

three words when it comes to bab ... "divine power clickie" ftw

or scrolls as a bard should have umd :D

[oweieie]

SONGS - the DPS and + to hit they add in epic is worth more than dps can add.
DPS - WC bring good dps to a group while swinging weaps.added with there songs and the dps they bring themselves not much better IMO

The non-stackingness of bards is kind of obnoxious when it comes to to-hit. Courage is morale so doesn't stack with GH so you're really not getting much in the way of to-hit out of it. Likewise Greatness is competence so doesn't stack with things like tumbleweed, spectral etc. If you're looking at buffing to-hit then you're better off bringing a monk for walk of flames or the new +5 insight to hit bonus they seem to be getting in the next mod.


three words when it comes to bab ... "divine power clickie" ftw

Two words! Sneak attack! A halfling bard with sneak attack enhancements and tharne's goggles will have no problem hitting at all. Even without halfling bonus just having a sneak attack item will help your to hit a lot.

[rest]

I love my 18/2 warforged Bard/Fighter. He friggin rocks. He has the WF PA enhancements and I can't recall the last time I had to turn PA off. Probably if I ever stop being lazy and get him into epics, but end game raids he does fine with. He rocks out with his min II greataxe and puts a hurtin' on all sorts of content.

[EddieB_TBC]

Ouch I sure hope they are useful end game because I have been leveling up a paladin I TR'd into a WF BRD16/FTR4 THF Blunt (maul/qs) for about a month now. Seems solid enough DPS although doesn't have much in the AC department. So far he doesn't have much problem hitting at lvl 12 (8/4) but on some hard/elite quests if I start to feel like he is missing a lot I just turn PA off. It does seem to be able to manage vale slayer w/a hireling and have also been playing in GH doing side quests on hard when I have a party. While he isn't leading the kill counts (dmnd 2wf barbs in party) he sure isn't piking his way through em either. Guess will see what happens in Amrath when I get there. Woot.

[EddieB_TBC]

I love my 18/2 warforged Bard/Fighter. He friggin rocks. He has the WF PA enhancements and I can't recall the last time I had to turn PA off. Probably if I ever stop being lazy and get him into epics, but end game raids he does fine with. He rocks out with his min II greataxe and puts a hurtin' on all sorts of content.
Ah nice warm fuzzies from this post. Cool! Heh.

[Bilger]

The non-stackingness of bards is kind of obnoxious when it comes to to-hit. Courage is morale so doesn't stack with GH so you're really not getting much in the way of to-hit out of it. Likewise Greatness is competence so doesn't stack with things like tumbleweed, spectral etc. If you're looking at buffing to-hit then you're better off bringing a monk for walk of flames or the new +5 insight to hit bonus they seem to be getting in the next mod.


What ya say is partly true but still gain some to hit and the damage boost ya get from bard songs is not something to sneeze at :cool:

Which will be a ton better than the LIMITED time a monk will have that buff up. So how long does it last noone knows yet if do please post.

So seriously a Bard is worth it in epic I run mine there and have np at all.

[Lozareth]

The non-stackingness of bards is kind of obnoxious when it comes to to-hit. Courage is morale so doesn't stack with GH so you're really not getting much in the way of to-hit out of it. Likewise Greatness is competence so doesn't stack with things like tumbleweed, spectral etc. If you're looking at buffing to-hit then you're better off bringing a monk for walk of flames or the new +5 insight to hit bonus they seem to be getting in the next mod.

A lvl 14 non-warchanter Inspire Courage with all the enhancements gives +6 to hit (GH and Walk of the Sun combined) as well as +6 to damage (nothing from GH and WotS there). Warchanter gives it another +1 to hit and +2 to damage. Going pure bard gives it another +1/+1. That's +8 to hit and +9 to damage. So up to twice what GH gives you plus the huge damage bonus. And it all still stacks with Walk of the Sun (monks use Walk of the Sun? aren't they all dark path now?).

[rest]

Ah nice warm fuzzies from this post. Cool! Heh.

Nothing quite like shortmanning shroud/hound/vod with this guy and 3 friends ;)


Also, don't even blink if you have crappy ac. Displacement + stoneskin wands = awesome. Plus with UMD you can sling heal/reconstruct scrolls. :cool:

myDDO link to Gustavi (http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/gustavi/)