The challenge! - The Wall vs. Quick Death

[domecek]

Hi,
I hope i going to show you two interesting and strong builds, but I have to decide - who is better? The Wall(15paladin/3monk/2rogue), twf intim tank with high saves, good hp and few nice survive abilities, using kamas or Quick Death(13rogue/6fighter/1monk), thf intim tank with good AC, dps and trap skills, using quarterstaffs?
Both have high intim and UMD...

My another questions are:
1) is dodge useful feat for both chars, or will be better another toughness?
2) are these chars able to be useful at the end game? Why yes or why not, please
3) can you understand my terrible english?:D


So firsth I show you Quick Death:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

weree waree
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(6 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 310
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 14 19
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 33
Bluff -1 1
Concentration 4 9
Diplomacy -1 1
Disable Device 6 27
Haggle 3 8
Heal 1 2
Hide 2 4
Intimidate 3 24
Jump 7 16
Listen 1 2
Move Silently 2 4
Open Lock 6 24
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 3
Search 6 27
Spot 5 25
Swim 3 15
Tumble 6 33
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II




And there is second fighter, The Wall:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

burek burk
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 3 Monk \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 387
Spell Points: 228
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 23
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 21
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 11 12
Wisdom 11 14
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 4
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 4
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 8
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 8
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 16
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 4 18
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 7
Heal 1 3
Hide 2 4
Intimidate 6 24
Jump 6 9
Listen 0 2
Move Silently 2 4
Open Lock 6 9
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 0 1
Spot 0 2
Swim 6 9
Tumble 4 6
Use Magic Device 6 29

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV





Thank you for responses,
Domecek

[purple_paladin]

both builds look like great idea's/builds, i kinda like the idea of the 13rogue/6fighter/1monk a little better, but i dont play late game content much, so dont trust me =)

on the wall build you dont get 2 feats at lvl 3.

on the rogue/fighter/monk i would suggest putting in stunning blow, dc should be decent with str based and 6 lvls of fighter

are you saying you intend to use kama's for the wall build? if so pretty sure other people will give you examples on why scimitar/rapier/khopesh would be much better

your english could be better, but it could be a lot worse

[domecek]

Hey,
thank you, ill fix it quickly.:o)

Dont know, if stun is good... need to have weighten wep and i want to use radiance quarterstaff. Mb good at start, but it already using trip, which dont costs you feat.

And kamas. This build isnt dps build (but it still have good dps) and i want to use stances and finishing moves, which giving me more then rapiers or scimitars.:o)

[sigtrent]

Unarmed will give you better damage than Kamas or Quarterstaves will although that doesn't really change your builds all that much.

Why?
1. Unarmed is faster
2. Faster means better ki generation
3. "Off hand" attacks get full strength bonuses with unarmed

The only thing arguing against unarmed is greensteel and if you are going with top notch gear, TOD rings seem to deliver similar results to greensteel damage wise (although not utility or defense wise).

[elyssaria]

Hey there!

My friend who I almost group up with everytime I play my Dominator build plays your Quick Death build (which we consider being a variant of the BigF'nStick build). Albeit he is a warforged instead. Those 3 extra power attack translates to 6 extra damage per hit. If not going warforged I would suggest halfling which will give you even more sneak attack damage.

I can easily say that his build is doing very well and he and I are always the top two in performance. The staffs are hitting FAST together with the acrobat I & II (competence bonus to attackspeed) + extra from windstance.

I would like to recommend your quick death build cause it's unusual AND it performs above expectations. Also with a radiance staff you will see wonders :)

Cheers!

/Khierra

[elyssaria]

Hey,
thank you, ill fix it quickly.:o)

Dont know, if stun is good... need to have weighten wep and i want to use radiance quarterstaff. Mb good at start, but it already using trip, which dont costs you feat.

And kamas. This build isnt dps build (but it still have good dps) and i want to use stances and finishing moves, which giving me more then rapiers or scimitars.:o)

Even if you are going to use a radiance staff you will still NEED a weighted qstaff when you are doing the epic quests. They work very very well in epic contents whereas your regular radiance staff will have less use compared to normal content.

So I would recommend you to fit in stunning blow as well.

/Khierra

[Asketes]

I introduce to Fawltypicks. (http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/fawltypicks/)


He is my 13 rogue, 6 fighter, 1 monk staff user.

I regularly sit at a 34 str with rage, have plenty of hitpoints to tank reaver, hound etc

I offer plenty to the party,

I do more damage when there are more mobs around me b/c he is stunning blow specced and uses weighted 5% a lot as well.

I can list the specifics if you are interested. He is one of my most fun toons to play.

[domecek]

Hoj, guys,
thanks a lot for advices.:o)

It looks like you would play Quick Death instead of The Wall.:o)


About kamas. My main reason for kamas is, that I already have +1 icy burst paralyzing kama and +3 icy burst impr curse kama. I bounded both to account, so...:D you know - epic fail. But this combination of weapons is rly good, and handwraps will never bring me this nice combination.:oP

About stun at QD. After your posts i decided for take this feat. I havent experiences with epics, so if this will help in end, its simply must be good.:D

Domecek

[domecek]

Asketes,
nice item build:o) All looks great, you havent ac from wis, but have it from wf feats:o) if it working, its great and i think you definitely solving my problem. But i am still for human than halfling, wf or dwarf... :o)

[TFPAQ]

Try a Dark Path Thief-Acrobat WF Monk with a load of q-staffs if you want to see some crazy "quick death"...

I love mine...

[Trillea]

Try a Dark Path Thief-Acrobat WF Monk with a load of q-staffs if you want to see some crazy "quick death"...

I love mine...

What level split do you use? Sounds like a fun build.. I have a WF acro-monk, but he's currently light path, but not leveled to 20 yet.

[domecek]

Had to do any name... So Quick Death.:D If you want real Qick death build, make 20 lvl sorc and simply use fingers:D
I know, guys, WF is awesome race, many benefits, but mb because of it i dont like this race...:oP

[Asketes]

Asketes,
nice item build:o) All looks great, you havent ac from wis, but have it from wf feats:o) if it working, its great and i think you definitely solving my problem. But i am still for human than halfling, wf or dwarf... :o)


thanks

warforged fit the build, kensei hooked up my stunning blow, warforged has enhancements to take it even higher. Plus all the super immunites and such.. I couldn't go wrong.

I wish you luck though, will be fun!