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Aerendil
05-05-2010, 09:33 AM
Hey guys, just running a bunch of ideas through my head and wanted to put it down, so please feel free to comment as I'm not sure how Rangers are at end-game (i.e. epic) these days.
Essentially I wanted to re-create one of my original characters (dwarven TWF axe meleer) for a while now, but was put off by the need to wear pajamas to achieve a reasonable AC (no self-respecting dwarf wears pajamas).
However, after crunching some numbers, it looks as though he can still achieve a reasonable AC with a non-monk splash - but I'm still not convinced it's enough.

So essentially I'm torn between 2 builds, which I'll briefly list:
Build 1: (balanced dps/AC)
Lawful good dwarf ranger 18 / fighter 2.
S: 16 (+5 lvls +2 tome +1 ftr +7 item +1 exceptional = 32, not including madstone/rage, etc.)
D: 14 (+2 class enh. + 2 tome + 6 item = 24 dex, enough to max out mith bp with DAM2)
C: 18
I: 12 (+1 tome = CE)
W: 10
C: 6

Feats = toughness, dodge, mobility, spring attack, PA, CE, I:Crit, maximize. OTWF.
Self-buffed AC theoretical breakdown could be:
10 base
10 mith bp+5
7 dex (DAM2)
5 deflection
4 tempest 3
5 CE
5 barkskin
1 dodge
1 ritual
2 chaosgardes
4 insight (shroud)
3 chattering ring
==
57 AC TWF (vs. FE = 61 AC. vs. giants with dodger3 = 68 AC). Could equip a shield as well I'd imagine if I was soloing or something and wanted a titch more AC, but it wouldn't be a huge increase. 2-3 more AC at the loss of TWF dps.

In raids:
6 DoS aura
4 bard AC
2 recitation
1 haste
==
70 AC (vs. FE = 73. vs giants = 80)

Granted, that may not be a realistic equipment list, but it's possible I suppose with some work.
If at endgame I found myself not needing AC due to spending most of my time in epic scenerios, I could swap out CE for another feat of my choice (2nd toughness perhaps?), so it has a bit of flexibility here.

Plus it has maximize for heals; evasion; and a buttload of hps.


Build 2: (more dps-focused)
Chaotic good Ranger 18 / Fighter 1 / Barbarian 1
Stats same as above unless I decide beforehand to ditch CE (see thoughts below), in which case it would be:
S: 18 (as above, so 34ish endgame (lose ftr str1, but a +3 tome will fix that); boostable to 38 with barb rage)
D: 14
C: 18
I: 8
W: 10
Ch: 6

I lose 1 feat over build 1, so it's a tossup between ditching Maximize or CE.
If CE - AC will be noteably worse I'd imagine. No chaosgardes due to CG alignment too, which lowers the original AC by... 7. However, retains maximize for heals when not raged, and will do slightly better dps due to a stronger PA + ability to rage.
'Course, if I ditch maximize and keep CE on this guy for some versatility his AC is only 2 less than the above build.

Dunno. Thoughts?
I realize I'm splitting hairs here over a possible mere 2 AC, but there will be some fundamental differences in gameplay between the 2 builds that aren't easily accounted for on paper.

Aerendil
05-07-2010, 08:42 AM
Ok, quick update on this one, I've decided to go with build #1 - the lawful-good aligned Rng18/Ftr2. Not keen on trapsmithing; prefer wearing armour over pajamas (and the "!" uncentered perma-icon drives me nuts); and in truth the difference between Monk splash AC vs. dwarven armour mastery 2 or 3 + light armour is minimal (about 3-4 points of AC. Not a huge issue.)

Feat layout I'm aiming for is:
1- Toughness
3- Dodge
Fighter bonus - Mobility
6- Spring Attack
9- Combat Expertise
Fighter bonus* - Power Attack
12- Imp. Crit (slash)
15- Maximize
18- OTWF (tempest III pre-req)
1st fighter level is around level 3 (vet start as a 3 ranger / 1 fighter), and will wear mithril full plate until such time as my Dex exceeds the MDB bonus in it, at which point I can switch to mithril breastplate. But with no Evasion until lvl 10 minimum (due to splash), there's no rush to get into light armour.

2nd fighter level is fairly flexible here. If I can hold out until 12-13, I will, but can take it earlier if I find myself wanting Power Attack earlier.
The beauty of Fighter splashes here is that it allows the build to get all of the good stuff early on (i.e. Tempest I at level 7; PA + CE + Imp. Crit + Toughness all by level 12), whereas some other builds such as Exploiter you're looking at waiting until nearly endgame before you can fit in Toughness or Power Attack, which is a personal turn-off.
*edit* - in fact, I could hold off on CE until 12, and take Imp. Crit at level 9, which would give me the essentials by level 10ish. /shrug. As mentioned, it's very flexible.

Will advise on his progress and any speed-bumps I encounter as I level him.
Feel free to spot any issues with the build (AC not high enough to be worthwhile? Reflex save possibly too low?), as I'm fairly open to criticism and tend to easily spot errors with other builds, but have blinders on when it comes to my own builds :p

grodon9999
05-07-2010, 09:05 AM
Feats = toughness, dodge, mobility, spring attack, PA, CE, I:Crit, maximize. OTWF.
Self-buffed AC theoretical breakdown could be:
10 base
10 mith bp+5
7 dex (DAM2)
5 deflection
4 tempest 3
5 CE
5 barkskin
1 dodge
1 ritual
2 chaosgardes
4 insight (shroud)
3 chattering ring
==
57 AC TWF (vs. FE = 68 AC. vs. giants with dodger3 = 75 AC). Could equip a shield as well I'd imagine if I was soloing or something and wanted a titch more AC, but it wouldn't be a huge increase. 2-3 more AC at the loss of TWF dps.

In raids:
6 DoS aura
4 bard AC
2 recitation
1 haste
==
70 AC (vs. FE = 81. vs giants = 88)

Granted, that may not be a realistic equipment list, but it's possible I suppose with some work.
If at endgame I found myself not needing AC due to spending most of my time in epic scenerios, I could swap out CE for another feat of my choice (2nd toughness perhaps?), so it has a bit of flexibility here.


I think it's 3 for FE, not 11? Anyone know for certain?

The only thing hard to get is the Chattering ring. Lets assume you have a hard time getting it (a safe bet) and you hit Amrath at 54. That'll give you about 50% orthon protection and Bearded devils will hit you every shot, on normal. It's better than nothing and you'll have the hit point needed to survive any healing lag. you'll be more viable than my pajama-guy in Epic where the AC don't hold because of your HP. Looks good to me.

Aerendil
05-07-2010, 09:24 AM
Good catch Grodon, yeah you're right. Had it in my head that FE bonuses applied to both damage and AC (as enhancements boost both), but just re-checked and it looks like the base FE bonuses are damage bonuses only (and if it's the same as PnP, you get bonuses for certain skills against them, such as Listen and Spot).

Will revise the original post to correct this.