Maximize vs. Empower Healing

[Holgar]

I am working on my WF melee-oriented Favored Soul, but I am being sure to give him great healing abilities (maxing out on all the enhancements, getting the gear etc.)

My question, in general, is which is better: Maximize or Empower Healing as a Feat? I only have room for one or the other.

As far as I can see, here are the pros and cons:

1) Maximize works on Blade Barrier & Searing Light. Empower Healing doesn't.

2) Empower Healing works on the Heal and Heal Mass spells. Maximize only works on the Cure spells, including the Mass Cures.

3) Empower Healing is cheaper to use than Maximize. However, Maximize has enhancements and raid gear that mitigate this cost to some extent. Empower Healing does not.

4) Maximize is more effective on "Cure" spells than Empower Healing.

Okay, please add to this list and let me know what else I'm missing. It seems to me that I should probably go with Maximize, but I know that opinions will vary and my mind is quite open to change (that's why I wrote this post! :))

Thanks,

Holgar

[Zaodan]

Go Maximize. You'll have plenty of spell points, and it works on Blade Barrier.

The lack of maxxing Heals / Mass Heals isn't really important.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Go Maximize. You'll have plenty of spell points, and it works on Blade Barrier.

The lack of maxxing Heals / Mass Heals isn't really important.

Having capped 2 clerics and brought a TR FvS almost to cap I'd say Maximize is a must on a cleric or FvS. Its great for mass cures, and a must for your offensive magic options.

I wouldn't worry about the need to boost your heals. Assuming you have a level or two of the healing enhancements, plus carry an appropriate potency/devotion item, you will already be overhealing with your heals much of the time

On a cleric I've tried bother EmpH and Emp and prefer EmpH for the cheaper cost. On an FvS, since you can get enhancements to make Emp almost as cheap as EmpH and you don't get anything to improve EmpH, I'd go with Emp as over EmpH if you find you have room in your build for another meta feat. (Max-Emp BB is fun)

[Eladiun]

Take into account the new Cleric PrE will boost Emp Healing from 50% to 75%.

[Zaodan]

Take into account the new Cleric PrE will boost Emp Healing from 50% to 75%.

Take into account the OP said he's making a FvS....

:D

[Eladiun]

Opps... I rolled a one on my reading check and I need a coffee buff.

[Zaodan]

Opps... I rolled a one on my reading check and I need a coffee buff.
http://rlv.zcache.com/i_need_250cc_of_coffee_stat_poster-p228353604311913914tdcp_400.jpg

[Holgar]

Thanks all for your help! Maximize will also help me heal myself (since I'm a WF, that's significant!)

Holgar

[Sproinket]

Maximize is kosher for a WF FvS.

It's next on my list to get I think...Though my build is a slight variation of most you see on here and is working out quite nicely if I may say so

[Donnie]

3) Empower Healing is cheaper to use than Maximize. However, Maximize has enhancements and raid gear that mitigate this cost to some extent. Empower Healing does not.

Actually, empower healing has a few items that can lower the cost. On a cleric an item combined with enhancements makes EH super cheap. FvS, no enhancements, so not so much.



On a cleric I've tried bother EmpH and Emp and prefer EmpH for the cheaper cost. On an FvS, since you can get enhancements to make Emp almost as cheap as EmpH and you don't get anything to improve EmpH, I'd go with Emp as over EmpH if you find you have room in your build for another meta feat. (Max-Emp BB is fun)

Yep.

I prefer to have both Empower Healing and Maximize on my clerics. I never turn EH off and typically only use Maximize for damage dealing.

[tkneip1874]

keep in mind this... if ur a melee soul then you probably dont have a high wisdom aka low dc's so might not be casting too many offensive spells. i which case i would take empower healing over max. just out of curiosity what other feats you taking. would be nice to fit both feats in...

[Hellllboy]

What is stopping you from picking both up?

They are both very valuable in their own way?

[Belwaar]

What is stopping you from picking both up?

They are both very valuable in their own way?

Efficiency without double-dipping?

[sirgog]

Levels 12-19 - Maximize is better due to Bladebarrier and Empowered Heal typically being a lot of overhealing

Level 20 - Empower Healing is the only way to go, as Heal and Mass Heal don't heal for enough without it in Epic raids, and Bladebarrier is much less useful even on high Wisdom builds.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Maximize FTW!

[Kintro]

Actually, empower healing has a few items that can lower the cost. On a cleric an item combined with enhancements makes EH super cheap. FvS, no enhancements, so not so much.



They do, however, get Improved Empower which will stack with the Ring of Thelis. In my opinion on a FvS the choice is really between Empower and Maximise if you can't get both.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

keep in mind this... if ur a melee soul then you probably dont have a high wisdom aka low dc's so might not be casting too many offensive spells. i which case i would take empower healing over max. just out of curiosity what other feats you taking. would be nice to fit both feats in...

What a horrible thought. FvS should have max WIS, same as a cleric. Failing to maximize your wisdom is foolish.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

What a horrible thought. FvS should have max WIS, same as a cleric. Failing to maximize your wisdom is foolish.

Utterly and totally wrong, for a melee fvs. If you are building a casting fvs that can also melee, sure thing.(I believe impaqs builds are mostly based around this). If you are building a melee fvs that is also going to heal things, your stat pool is spread too thin to bother with attempting to max wisdom.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Levels 12-19 - Maximize is better due to Bladebarrier and Empowered Heal typically being a lot of overhealing

Level 20 - Empower Healing is the only way to go, as Heal and Mass Heal don't heal for enough without it in Epic raids, and Bladebarrier is much less useful even on high Wisdom builds.

This is the way to go, if you are going to be running epic content at cap.

If you are not going to be doing much epic content, then maximize is most likely going to be better for you.

[Holgar]

keep in mind this... if ur a melee soul then you probably dont have a high wisdom aka low dc's so might not be casting too many offensive spells. i which case i would take empower healing over max. just out of curiosity what other feats you taking. would be nice to fit both feats in...

Here are my Feat choices:

1) Adamantine Body (both for the stackable DR 2 and *gasp!* for the look)

2) Extend Spell (great for Divine Power and Divine Favor, both needed so I can max out my Power Attack enhancements)

3) Power Attack

4) Maximize

5) Toughness

6) Improved Critical: Slashing

7) Quicken Spell

Yes, I know I don't need Adamantine Body, but I really love the thought of DR 15 Adamantine at Level 20 (and I'm a sucker for the look of the Blademarked Docent on an Adamantine Body).

If I find I'm gimped without Empower or Empower Healing, I'll do the right thing and get rid of Adamantine Body, but if I can get by with just Maximize Spell, I'll be a happy camper. :D

Holgar

[Ranmaru2]

On my battle cleric, I hit myself for ~426 per heal spell, but he has 436 hps, so with empower healing I'm basically capped back up to where I need to be when I use it. Using cure serious and cure critical for 80-100 at a time is an inefficient method of healing, and considering the base -50% healing a warforged gets already, taking Maximize over empower healing leads to heal being inefficient to use on yourself. It doesn't allow you to let your HPs to go lower than you might want and leads to sp waste (even on a FvS this is important if in parties). Its a tough decision, as you have BB to consider (IC:S can go imo :p ) but to gimp out heal or not to is a tough decision.

How much healing amp are you going to have at all times? would be the biggest defining factor in the decision if I were you.

[Shade]

Got both on my fvs.

Generally I keep them all on to make my capstone more potent.. And avoid uses cure spells as there rather expensive.

But where more burst healing then mass heal can provide is needed.. I shut off max and empower but keep on emp healing, as its more effecient.

At high lvl having stronger heals is preferable, and emp healing is effecient, so its really a must have imo, esp for a melee fvs.

For a non caster fvs, the times you should be using blade barrier at the cap are pretty rare. I mean it's a awesome spell for leveling up and zerging quests, but for endgame raids and/or epic? not particuarly imporatnt if you max it or not.

[sirgog]

On my battle cleric, I hit myself for ~426 per heal spell, but he has 436 hps, so with empower healing I'm basically capped back up to where I need to be when I use it. Using cure serious and cure critical for 80-100 at a time is an inefficient method of healing, and considering the base -50% healing a warforged gets already, taking Maximize over empower healing leads to heal being inefficient to use on yourself. It doesn't allow you to let your HPs to go lower than you might want and leads to sp waste (even on a FvS this is important if in parties). Its a tough decision, as you have BB to consider (IC:S can go imo :p ) but to gimp out heal or not to is a tough decision.

How much healing amp are you going to have at all times? would be the biggest defining factor in the decision if I were you.

It's not for self-healing (although on my battle cleric, I have 621hp selfbuffed, so even soloing I use Empower Healing). It's for party/raid healing.

Melees in Epics tend to have 600+ hp (non-barb) and 800+ hp (raged barbarian) in the toughest fights. Seldom do they have more than 20% healing amplification, meaning that a Heal hits for a piddly 345 or so (assuming Sup Pot 6, a bit more with a Superior Ardor 8 clicky active). One heal like that per 4 seconds is just not enough healing to keep up a melee that's copping all of Lailat's aggro, even with a Heal scroll every cooldown. Hell, it's not even enough to keep a melee that has the aggro of two Epic Mummy Avengers (Wiz-King) up.

[Astars]

Try to get imp. empower healing on your DT armor (fairly easy, since its a tempest rune) or grab the hound necklace(if you are cheap). Then you can keep emp. healing on 24/7.
Then grab the empower enhancements and the ring of thelis.
Those are basic farms for my FvS. Does wonders for sp efficiency.
I'll drop ic slash when i get my min2 done and take max then.
Thats my plan for my max wis FvS human TR

[Bacab]

They do, however, get Improved Empower which will stack with the Ring of Thelis. In my opinion on a FvS the choice is really between Empower and Maximise if you can't get both.



THIS^^^^ 100% agree.

I took Empower at like level 3. Then took Maximize at level 12 (for Blade Barrier).

On my WF FVS I took empower at level 3, and did not take Maximize. Just get a Docent of Corpsecraft and a Healing Lore item. Gloves of Eternity or that belt (forget what it is called).