Brilliant.....yet SO SO stupid

[Healsavant]

Great idea, increase the income by allowing F2P to mix in there with the ones who have been here and paying for YEARS....supporting....OH it just came to me this assinine decision, that HEY now allows me to sit here and try to endlessly get onto a server that is full of F2P.....while I sit here looking at a forum. Here is a good idea, umm open a couple of F2P servers OR have a queue for premium players :)

[Lithic]

Great idea, increase the income by allowing F2P to mix in there with the ones who have been here and paying for YEARS....supporting....OH it just came to me this assinine decision, that HEY now allows me to sit here and try to endlessly get onto a server that is full of F2P.....while I sit here looking at a forum. Here is a good idea, umm open a couple of F2P servers OR have a queue for premium players :)

The servers aren't full, thats just a bugged error. The devs have been working on it for months now, its just a hard one to squash. Just keep trying. I rarely get this message twice in a row.

[cdemeritt]

Why does this keep coming up... Every Sta/Sunday at prime time, there is a bug that affects logins... It appears that the client is unable to connect to the billing server and is unable to identify your account...

It seems to happen every week... Turbine is aware of the issue.. I blame the Data Center, not the F2P model... guess what keep trying to log in, and most cases in less than 15 minutes I get through...

And for what it's worth, since so many seem intent on blaming the F2P "freeloaders", many F2P people spend more on this game than VIP's... I know I do now...

[Noctus]

And for what it's worth, since so many seem intent on blaming the F2P "freeloaders", many F2P people spend more on this game than VIP's... I know I do now...


F2Pers spend zilch, nihil, null, nix, nothing on this game. Its the very definition of a F2Per. :eek:


Premium players are the one that spend the bucks, many of them more than most VIPs.:rolleyes:

[Lakeland]

And for what it's worth, since so many seem intent on blaming the F2P "freeloaders", many F2P people spend more on this game than VIP's... I know I do now...

I absolutely love these comments FTP are tossing out recently. Please tell me how you know that "Many F2P" spend more then VIP's? Where is that data from? How do you know how much PTP spend on TP's? Yea, I didn't really think you knew either. :rolleyes:

[stormwolf1972]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

[cdemeritt]

I absolutely love these comments FTP are tossing out recently. Please tell me how you know that "Many F2P" spend more then VIP's? Where is that data from? How do you know how much PTP spend on TP's? Yea, I didn't really think you knew either. :rolleyes:

Yeah... I don't know... but since I spend more now.... and since there is more new content now... and more servers now...And when I was a VIP I spent only my monthly $9.99, if I needed points, I just waited until the next months allotment. it isn't an unreasonable assumption... Now not everyone is the same, but I know many who are... but... Not really the point... don't blame the players for turbines choice of datacenters, inability to find and remove this bug, or other issues that seem unrelated to the gameservers... once I get past the login/authentication servers, I usually have no problem...

[Xyfiel]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

Do both.

[cx-7heaven]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

Lets see.... 15/month times 12 months=180/year times 3 years=540 give or take a couple months.....

Yeah, stop crying.

[Hambo]

Why does this keep coming up... Every Sta/Sunday at prime time, there is a bug that affects logins... It appears that the client is unable to connect to the billing server and is unable to identify your account...

It seems to happen every week... Turbine is aware of the issue.. I blame the Data Center, not the F2P model... guess what keep trying to log in, and most cases in less than 15 minutes I get through...

And for what it's worth, since so many seem intent on blaming the F2P "freeloaders", many F2P people spend more on this game than VIP's... I know I do now...

This is a "nice" problem to have... All weekend long, from Friday night to about 8:00pm PST Sunday night there have been 5 instances of the Marketplace every time I checked... :D

[Lleren]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

Then you are Premium, not Free to Play.

[Hambo]

I absolutely love these comments FTP are tossing out recently. Please tell me how you know that "Many F2P" spend more then VIP's? Where is that data from? How do you know how much PTP spend on TP's? Yea, I didn't really think you knew either. :rolleyes:

Erm, actually, the moment a "F2P" spends anything in the game they become "Premium" players... wherter they ever spend anything else or not.

Maybe they should change Premium to where it reverts back to F2P after a four week countdown to make the numbers a bit more accessable. Those who spend a lot won't be affected and those who don't will revert.

[Rice]

Maybe they should change Premium to where it reverts back to F2P after a four week countdown to make the numbers a bit more accessable. Those who spend a lot won't be affected and those who don't will revert.

I really hope this was a very clever joke. If so, I really liked it.

Just in the off-chance that it wasn't a joke: they already have that, it's called VIP.

[suitepotato]

I've been "VIP" since 2006, and had a second account since beginning of 2007. That's the same monthly fee for each ever since, and over $100 on Turbine Points. What do I get for that? I get MAYBE being able to log on. I get INCREASING lag. I get nerfs by the buttload. I get devs making excuses. I get drama and tragedy in the forums. I get masochistic pain by the truck. If you leave out the lack of sex, it's marriage.

[cardmj1]

I've been "VIP" since 2006, and had a second account since beginning of 2007. That's the same monthly fee for each ever since, and over $100 on Turbine Points. What do I get for that? I get MAYBE being able to log on. I get INCREASING lag. I get nerfs by the buttload. I get devs making excuses. I get drama and tragedy in the forums. I get masochistic pain by the truck. If you leave out the lack of sex, it's marriage.

There is no sex in DDO, so it is the same. Sorry dude.

[Chai]

I've been "VIP" since 2006, and had a second account since beginning of 2007. That's the same monthly fee for each ever since, and over $100 on Turbine Points. What do I get for that? I get MAYBE being able to log on. I get INCREASING lag. I get nerfs by the buttload. I get devs making excuses. I get drama and tragedy in the forums. I get masochistic pain by the truck. If you leave out the lack of sex, it's marriage.

And yet you and others like you are still here.

Never ceases to amaze me the number of people who moan about DDO repetitively, yet still log in each day.

Addiction sucks, only the first ones free bro.

I do agree that they need to upgrade these Commodore 64s we are on to 128s and get some 90 baud modems already, but I dont hem and haw to this extreme and still log on daily. Once it gets this bad its time to move on.

[Falco_Easts]

I've been "VIP" since 2006, and had a second account since beginning of 2007. That's the same monthly fee for each ever since, and over $100 on Turbine Points. What do I get for that? I get MAYBE being able to log onto a game that may not have been around without F2P. I get INCREASING lag in a game that may not have been around without F2P. I get nerfs by the buttload but missed the biggest nerf of all in not having a game to play at all, thank to F2P. I get devs making excuses like they did before F2P. I get drama and tragedy in the forums same as before F2P. I get masochistic pain by the truck. If you leave out the lack of sex, it's marriage.

Comments in red.
I agree VIP should get more then they currently do but the F2P bashing is getting old.
Since the advent of the F2P model, there has been 1 million new accounts and a raise in revenue at Turbine by 500%. I would say the amount of players that came and stayed F2P rather then go Premium or VIP is minimal.

[cx-7heaven]

Comments in red.
I agree VIP should get more then they currently do but the F2P bashing is getting old.
Since the advent of the F2P model, there has been 1 million new accounts and a raise in revenue at Turbine by 500%. I would say the amount of players that came and stayed F2P rather then go Premium or VIP is minimal.

No arguments on f2p being the saving grace of ddo. With that said, it's ridiculous how some of the more vocal f2p players seem to have a sense of entitlement....give 'em an inch, they take a mile, I guess.

[Sleepingcap]

As for the premium queue for the VIPs - I believe this has been implemented but the servers haven't been full enough for us to notice that.

If there were F2P servers, wouldn't there be alot of confusion, if a player decides to go VIP for a month or two and then stops paying - on what server will he end up? And will his character be transferring from one to another?

[Temko]

since playing EvE, Darkfall and mucking around in Dawntide i've come to love the single-server world.

as DDO lends itself to this quite well (Instanced) is it not a idea to have Turbine spend a month of dev time to design a ala STO (1 server, LOTS of instances) system where we are all on the same server?

1 - one big communtie
2 - if there are 10k players on... there are 10k players on, not 5x2k.
3 - i hate the server selection screen and being cut of from 80% of the people becouse of a random uninformed pick at the first startup.

[Tinrae]

since playing EvE, Darkfall and mucking around in Dawntide i've come to love the single-server world.

as DDO lends itself to this quite well (Instanced) is it not a idea to have Turbine spend a month of dev time to design a ala STO (1 server, LOTS of instances) system where we are all on the same server?

1 - one big communtie
2 - if there are 10k players on... there are 10k players on, not 5x2k.
3 - i hate the server selection screen and being cut of from 80% of the people becouse of a random uninformed pick at the first startup.

I couldn't agree more with your points, and would love to play on this type of server system here.

[Uska]

No thanks I love the f2p and premium people they are helping make sure my game stays alive so lets dont put anymore restrictions on them then they already have.

[Uska]

since playing EvE, Darkfall and mucking around in Dawntide i've come to love the single-server world.

as DDO lends itself to this quite well (Instanced) is it not a idea to have Turbine spend a month of dev time to design a ala STO (1 server, LOTS of instances) system where we are all on the same server?

1 - one big communtie
2 - if there are 10k players on... there are 10k players on, not 5x2k.
3 - i hate the server selection screen and being cut of from 80% of the people becouse of a random uninformed pick at the first startup.

even with instances we would have more lag then we do now so seperate servers is the best way to go. only thing I would like to see is a way to switch servers without restarting the game.

[habanaman]

If you're not happy with VIP, then you have the option to go premium or f2p yourself.

[Targoth1]

I've been "VIP" since 2006, and had a second account since beginning of 2007. That's the same monthly fee for each ever since, and over $100 on Turbine Points. What do I get for that? I get MAYBE being able to log on. I get INCREASING lag. I get nerfs by the buttload. I get devs making excuses. I get drama and tragedy in the forums. I get masochistic pain by the truck. If you leave out the lack of sex, it's marriage.

You had all of that before the game went F2P.

The only difference is, not the developers have way more incentive to turn out new ontent. Content that you will receive access to automatically. After all, new content is the only means by which they will get more money from the premium players that have already shelled out hundreds of dollars to buy permanent access to all the existing content.

[Targoth1]

since playing EvE, Darkfall and mucking around in Dawntide i've come to love the single-server world.

as DDO lends itself to this quite well (Instanced) is it not a idea to have Turbine spend a month of dev time to design a ala STO (1 server, LOTS of instances) system where we are all on the same server?

1 - one big communtie
2 - if there are 10k players on... there are 10k players on, not 5x2k.
3 - i hate the server selection screen and being cut of from 80% of the people becouse of a random uninformed pick at the first startup.

As nice as this would be, they would pretty much have ro redesign their server architecture from the ground up.

[Targoth1]

As for the premium queue for the VIPs - I believe this has been implemented but the servers haven't been full enough for us to notice that.

If there were F2P servers, wouldn't there be alot of confusion, if a player decides to go VIP for a month or two and then stops paying - on what server will he end up? And will his character be transferring from one to another?

No kidding.

I pay for a subscription on months were I have a lot of free time, and just play the content I've purchased during months were my play time will be limited. Be a heck of a mess if you tried to segregate servers by payment method.

[magnus1]

There is no sex in DDO, so it is the same. Sorry dude.


no he seems to think he's been getting screwed, so its not like marraige

[Rav'n]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

Well that's just dumb.

[Borror0]

since so many seem intent on blaming the F2P "freeloaders"
I dislike it that others call them that way. In a game so group-centric, so-called "freeloaders" have value too: they are people to group with. Sure, they may not all be good players but the average player does not see this in this light. For them, it's mostly just other players with a few jerks tossed left and right.

Freeloaders are, to a degree, still good for Turbine's business.

[dunklezhan]

even with instances we would have more lag then we do now so seperate servers is the best way to go. only thing I would like to see is a way to switch servers without restarting the game.

This is not the case.


As nice as this would be, they would pretty much have ro redesign their server architecture from the ground up.

This is.

The thing about all those games quoted as 'single server' is that they're not even close to single server.Friend of mine is on a game design course at the moment, and on of the papers they had to write was related to the multi-realm approach vs single realm. Realm is a better description of what's going on than 'server'. Eve, for example, has something like 300 seperate blade servers for running the 'realm' plus a database server layer and then the kernal layer underneath all that, to make sure the realm is persistent.

The way I understand 'DPS' lag in DDO is that its something to do with the sheer amount of info is being passed backwards and forwards - the DDO engine I think is just transaction heavy. The more servers there are, and the more powerful each sever is, the less lag you will experience if this is correct.

I sincerely doubt, for example, that each 'server' you log into is just one server. i would imagine that it is a set of servers all working together. The instances that you enter into are still segregated by realm (e.g. Argo) for that set of player accounts, but again, i'd be amazed if they've got one server running all the concurrent instances of the Argo realm.

So going to persistent, common 'city' areas (the MMO part of this game), depending on the architecture, shouldn't affect lag at all, except in those areas. In the dungeon instances, improving the lag situation will depend entirely on how the underlying server cluster is running the instance you are in, what the capabilities of the servers in the cluster are and how easy it is to add more servers to the clusters. Then you have to consider the capabilities of the database system that the game is managed by, and how much risk of corruption, lost data, risks to backup and overall clunkiness having all those accounts and game data (AH, brokers, monster stats etc) in the same database would be.

What would really help though I suspect, is recoding the game from the ground up using 2010 technology, not 2006. Clearly that's not going to happen, and would likely be a long, drawn out migration process and a horrible user experience.


The point is - a single 'realm' probably isn't out of the, er, realms of possibility, but it would likely require a redesign from the ground up.

The single easiest 'fix' (and it doesn't follow that its 'easy', just easier than all the alternatives) would probably be investment in new hardware - given the recent data centre move though, I suspect they HAVE just migrated to newer hardware. Players more experienced than I will have to judge whether the lag is better or worse.

I play from the UK - I rarely experience anything approaching lethal lag.

aaaanyway. That's all been horribly off topic.


On topic: I've spent hundreds of dollars here in the six months I've been playing. All because the game was F2P to get started.

F2P is like a gateway drug to the DDO store... A smooth, cough-free toke on the pipe of awesomeness that is DDO.

I would imagine that very few people have the patience to never buy ANYTHING in the store, so very few 'F2P' remain so. I would bet that more contribute financially than don't - course, turbine won't release specific figures, so we can't be sure. But I reckon its a safe bet.

The f2P crowd have nothing to do with the login problems. The login problem they have now is a bug, they've said that the servers are not full. They're having a real hard job tracking it down, but its not due to overpopulation.

[Temko]

As nice as this would be, they would pretty much have ro redesign their server architecture from the ground up.

Partially true.
they have the server mechanics for instancing and splicing in place, they need to design their multi-cluster loading or use a known pre-made working system. either way it's a lot of work, with 1 month dev time i mean "1 month of a team of 6-8 people working 40-50 hours a week to get this up"

though we'll never see it as this change wont do anything to bring in more money, but will cost a lot of money (new equipment, dev time, etc...)



even with instances we would have more lag then we do now so seperate servers is the best way to go. only thing I would like to see is a way to switch servers without restarting the game.

Not at all. that fully depends on their server architecture, design, power and implementation.
if it's ****** like now you'll have lag if you have 2 people fart :(

current lag is directly related to their lackluster implementation of instancing (i remember Tabula Rasa having this very issue with 20-50 instances of a dungeon up and everyone lagging their brains out)

[Magusrex777]

I don't have any lag, even when I play on my laptop(very good). It is better here than it was WoW for me in regards to lag. I play on Sarlona.

[Hambo]

As for the premium queue for the VIPs - I believe this has been implemented but the servers haven't been full enough for us to troubleshoot the feature properly [delete: 'to notice that'].

If there were F2P servers, wouldn't there be alot of confusion, if a player decides to go VIP for a month or two and then stops paying - on what server will he end up? And will his character be transferring from one to another?

Edited to show a possible reason for VIP logon issues. Like I said in an earlier post, I'd rather have the constant 5 Marketplace instances than the one mostly empty one that most weren't here to experience. :D

[Zenako]

Definitions...


F2P = has never given Turbine ANY money to play the game. ie Freeloader

Premium = Ex (VIP or F2P) who has given Turbine Money (sometimes lots of money) and is anything but a freeloader, they just pay by content instead of by month

VIP = User who PAYS Turbine a monthly Access Fee to the game, and may or may not also give Turbine bucks on top of that for buying stuff from the Store.


ONCE you give Turbine any money, you are no longer a F2P player, you have been promoted to PREMIUM, like it or not.

Most of the time rants against F2P come up, the OP was in fact ranting against the truely F2P, while most of the rebuttals tend to come from players who still think of themselves as F2P (since they do not pay monthly), but who are in fact PREMIUM given how many of them go on to cite how much money they have given to Turbine in order to still think of themselves as playing the game for free.


IF the servers were full, you would get the server full interface and a countdown to a retry. Saw this during a number of Lamannia Stress Tests last summer. The Server FUll pop-up is not the same thing, it is a validation bug that has obviously proved elusive to nail down. It does seem to crop up when the servers are busier, so perhaps it is relating to some timing issues, and time outs when the load gets high. Cannot every recall seeing it during "off hours" only during peak play times.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Where did the Devs say this was a bug? And is the bug it not letting us log on or is the bug not puttin VIPs in the login que?

FTP the new VIP.

[Hambo]

This is not the case.



This is.

(Extra Stuff Deleted)

The single easiest 'fix' (and it doesn't follow that its 'easy', just easier than all the alternatives) would probably be investment in new hardware - given the recent data centre move though, I suspect they HAVE just migrated to newer hardware. Players more experienced than I will have to judge whether the lag is better or worse.

(Extra Stuff Deleted)



All of the hardware was upgraded last August or September, just before F2P/Premium went live.

[Drfirewater79]

Great idea, increase the income by allowing F2P to mix in there with the ones who have been here and paying for YEARS....supporting....OH it just came to me this assinine decision, that HEY now allows me to sit here and try to endlessly get onto a server that is full of F2P.....while I sit here looking at a forum. Here is a good idea, umm open a couple of F2P servers OR have a queue for premium players :)

Hey rath ... yeah same problem ... peak sunday hours and i a freaking VIP cannot log onto my main server ... I FREAKING HATE where this game has gone ...

but what can we do about it ... turbine cares more about free to play then the people who spent money in the past ... reason being ... we cannot get our money back for 4 years of sub par service ... just like we cannot get our money back for not being able to play what we pay for because of server cues and when we do get in the lag is so stupidly out of control that you wonder why even bother.

truth is ... VIP means nothing ... F2P means nothing ... Premium means nothing ... all that matters is how stupid are we and how much we can spend in the time we are still here.

[Drfirewater79]

The servers aren't full, thats just a bugged error. The devs have been working on it for months now, its just a hard one to squash. Just keep trying. I rarely get this message twice in a row.

I tried logging on sunday at 5pm EST ... i tried 8 times to log onto sarlona before i went onto orien and played my character there for two hours came back thinking at least i want to go on and search my Auctions ... and i got the message again ...

so if servers arent full then i dont know what kind of BS keeps me out during peak hours on one server but has no problem getting me on other servers.

[Drfirewater79]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

15$ a month for the last 4 years ... add it up ...

but forget that ... i still put money into TP even though i hate the idea of doing it ...

you spend hundreds of dollars eh?

what are you spending the money on ?

remember everything that isnt a mission pack is prolly being bought by a good average of VIP's

when you subtract your 32 point build ... vet status ... favored souls ... mana pots ... bunny hats ...res cakes ... blah blah blah ...

and you factor in 15$ a month lets be fair and say since f2p so what november ....

so 7 months that is 105$

but when your done buying your mission packs you will end up paying what ... 2-400 points every two months ... or wait for sales and pay less ....

and we are paying 30$ every two months and god forbid we are late by a day or two ... then we have no content ... not like we can buy the content until we are VIP with our free turbine points ....

come off it man ... f2p dont spend half as much as VIP's ... some spend money on store just like a **** ton of VIP's do ...

mission costs are way cheaper over the coarse of a year then VIP. First year is only expensive if you buy everything ... most people i have talked too that are free to play only buy the packs either when they are on sale and cheap or the packs they need to get ahead like shroud ....

i am betting if you look at the numbers the VIP's put alot more into this game then the f2p ....

[Drfirewater79]

Comments in red.
I agree VIP should get more then they currently do but the F2P bashing is getting old.
Since the advent of the F2P model, there has been 1 million new accounts and a raise in revenue at Turbine by 500%. I would say the amount of players that came and stayed F2P rather then go Premium or VIP is minimal.

you dont read well ... if you checked that address state of the game again there was 1million new accounts so 1 million people played the game for two days and quit ... revenue at turbine up by 500% .... how does f2p come into that at all ...

that is DDO store ...

its same like wow saying it has 15 million active accounts ... cause 5 million people tested the game and hated it in one week.

god you people never read anything about a video game before?

come on man ....

use your heads ...

legal talk doesnt mean **** ... learn that and come back with an intelligent rebuttle dont just respout the bs the piaz group is spitting when you dont really know what the numbers are or what they mean.

[suitepotato]

Comments in red.
I agree VIP should get more then they currently do but the F2P bashing is getting old.
Since the advent of the F2P model, there has been 1 million new accounts and a raise in revenue at Turbine by 500%. I would say the amount of players that came and stayed F2P rather then go Premium or VIP is minimal.

F2P was a last-gasp effort at keeping the game alive which is akin to a premium cable channel that refuses to carry anything that anyone wants to watch, figuring that more people will watch if they just drop their price to $9.95 a month. It's also a slap in the face to those who kept with them, providing the numbers that justified their earlier venture capital foraging. If they didn't listen to the AD&D fans before, if they didn't listen to those who put up cash money monthly before, they are ten times as likely now to not listen.

Turbine is about like the SyFy channel. They neither know nor care what their regulars think, they live in another world, and are not ever going to change. It's only the best DnD game online because it is the ONLY one. Doing better would be trivial for these folks if they wanted to, but they don't. For the devs, it's all about what they think is cool, not the players. For the execs, what they want to do with it, not what the players who pay them cash money have been begging for.

The first licensee who builds a competing MMORPG in the style of DDO is going to drain most of this game's customer base away on the spot, and if they actually listen to the players, they will have solid support. Turbine is on borrowed time no matter how this Atari lawsuit thing goes. Eventually, another AD&D game will happen, and Turbine will find that treating their player base with thinly-veiled contempt will cost them.

[Cabronsisimo]

With the recent aquicition by WB, isnt a monopoly guaranted?
so no competing AD&D mmorpg in the horizon

[Shaamis]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

been playing since pre-start April 26th 2006 to NOW.

one month i let my sub down.
:)
$705.00 I have spent, with $15.00 in TPs bought.

IF what you say is correct, I'm thanking you and your kind's insane spending habits, lack of restraint, and single-minded ability to ignore real-life needs, for pixels.

[cx-7heaven]

With the recent aquicition by WB, isnt a monopoly guaranted?
so no competing AD&D mmorpg in the horizon

You forget the rumors of Atari/Cryptic doing a NeverwinterNights MMO

[Rabbi_Hordo]

well i am ftp....and i have spent several hundred dollars on this game in the last few months.....how much is your monthly fee again?

Ummm...if you've EVER spent a single red cent on anything from Turbine your account will note that it is a Premium account, not a Free To Play account.

Common misconception.

You are no longer a F2P player but a Premium player...a completely different gestalt.

[Falco_Easts]

you dont read well ...
I assure you, I read quite well. Better then you apperently.


if you checked that address state of the game again there was 1million new accounts so 1 million people played the game for two days and quit ...
I'm sorry, did I say they were still active? Maybe you should learn to read better.
1 million new accounts, even if only 20% of those stayed is still 200,000 new accounts. From what I have seen, it is only a small percentage of those stay F2P and don't upgrade to at least premium.


revenue at turbine up by 500% .... how does f2p come into that at all ...

that is DDO store ...
Which came when they switched to the F2P model. Or do you believe that all the previous subscribers are suddenly spending $75 a month each?

[Drfirewater79]

With the recent aquicition by WB, isnt a monopoly guaranted?
so no competing AD&D mmorpg in the horizon

wouldn't bet on it ... atari turbine suit has been dropped ... no longer a lawsuit ... so someone paid someone off ... now its just hasbro and atari ... if atari comes out on top new mmo in the works .... only people who can stop it is WOTC.


You forget the rumors of Atari/Cryptic doing a NeverwinterNights MMO

if hasbro loses and atari keeps the license expect to see this game come out in two years.


I assure you, I read quite well. Better then you apperently.


I'm sorry, did I say they were still active? Maybe you should learn to read better.
1 million new accounts, even if only 20% of those stayed is still 200,000 new accounts. From what I have seen, it is only a small percentage of those stay F2P and don't upgrade to at least premium.


Which came when they switched to the F2P model. Or do you believe that all the previous subscribers are suddenly spending $75 a month each?

when you use the argument 1 million new accounts you are assuming alot you are assuming ANY of them stays .. that is a pretty big assumption ... if you assume ANY of them spend money that is a pretty big assumption ... if you assume 200,000 new players at the premium account status ... that is insaine ....

maybe you dont know your DDO history but at the peak of the game there was 60k subscribers (as per atari lawsuit claim). The servers are much more busy i will give you that ...

but not 200k busy .... they would have had to add 7 more servers for that load not two.

also keep in mind out of your million there are hundreds of VIP's who have free to play accounts some multiple free to play accounts just to hold inventory.

I happen to know of 20 people doing exactly that ... storing all there lowbie gear on one account with two characters and no favor ... all there middle level gear on another and all there high level gear unused on there main account ... that is 1 person 3 accounts.

I can tell you this much store came and f2p didnt this game would still have held out very nicely .. the DDO store increases revenue ...

free to play accounts (many) are filled with people who farm TP (thousands of posts and how to guides just on DDO forums forget ign gamewinners and massively) teaching people how to farm 100's of TP an hour in order to buy the game for free and play for free ...

earned TP does not a premium make ...

DO i believe that premium players spend money .... of course cause if they didnt they wouldnt be premium.

Do i believe VIP's spend as much as premium ... i believe some spend more on consumables and if you look at the state of the game address you seem to love quoting so much .. maybe you would notice the items that are making the most money. Its not mission packs.

play and pay your own way ... but don't go thinking that premium saved this game ...

this game was always great ...

want to know what saved this game ...

not paying a box price .... DDO store .... quick updates

that is what saved the game ...

after a year of nothing coming out there was still strong servers ... game wasnt dead yet ... if they would have just started coming out with content on a bi monthly basis like they did when the game was popular in year 1 they never would have needed f2p ... if they had done the store thing before f2p they never would have needed f2p.

I hate it that so many dont understand business enough to see where the money comes from ... they just spout off without thinking there arguement through.

I dont hate f2p but i do think it should have been regulated ...

and there is no point to a VIP program where VIP's dont get special privalege ....

500TP cant even buy you a respec +0

VIP's get next to nothing ... and now we get locked out of our servers too ...

its turbines mess ... they need to fix it.

sorry to say it but if your f2p (not premium) and there is a VIP who wants in and your not actually in a mission ... you should be booted.

[Tymoriel_Ayreweaver]

wouldn't Bet On It ... Atari Turbine Suit Has Been Dropped ... No Longer A Lawsuit ... So Someone Paid Someone Off ... Now Its Just Hasbro And Atari ... If Atari Comes Out On Top New Mmo In The Works .... Only People Who Can Stop It Is Wotc.



If Hasbro Loses And Atari Keeps The License Expect To See This Game Come Out In Two Years.



When You Use The Argument 1 Million New Accounts You Are Assuming Alot You Are Assuming Any Of Them Stays .. That Is A Pretty Big Assumption ... If You Assume Any Of Them Spend Money That Is A Pretty Big Assumption ... If You Assume 200,000 New Players At The Premium Account Status ... That Is Insaine ....

Maybe You Dont Know Your Ddo History But At The Peak Of The Game There Was 60k Subscribers (as Per Atari Lawsuit Claim). The Servers Are Much More Busy I Will Give You That ...

But Not 200k Busy .... They Would Have Had To Add 7 More Servers For That Load Not Two.

Also Keep In Mind Out Of Your Million There Are Hundreds Of Vip's Who Have Free To Play Accounts Some Multiple Free To Play Accounts Just To Hold Inventory.

I Happen To Know Of 20 People Doing Exactly That ... Storing All There Lowbie Gear On One Account With Two Characters And No Favor ... All There Middle Level Gear On Another And All There High Level Gear Unused On There Main Account ... That Is 1 Person 3 Accounts.

I Can Tell You This Much Store Came And F2p Didnt This Game Would Still Have Held Out Very Nicely .. The Ddo Store Increases Revenue ...

Free To Play Accounts (many) Are Filled With People Who Farm Tp (thousands Of Posts And How To Guides Just On Ddo Forums Forget Ign Gamewinners And Massively) Teaching People How To Farm 100's Of Tp An Hour In Order To Buy The Game For Free And Play For Free ...

Earned Tp Does Not A Premium Make ...

Do I Believe That Premium Players Spend Money .... Of Course Cause If They Didnt They Wouldnt Be Premium.

Do I Believe Vip's Spend As Much As Premium ... I Believe Some Spend More On Consumables And If You Look At The State Of The Game Address You Seem To Love Quoting So Much .. Maybe You Would Notice The Items That Are Making The Most Money. Its Not Mission Packs.

Play And Pay Your Own Way ... But Don't Go Thinking That Premium Saved This Game ...

This Game Was Always Great ...

Want To Know What Saved This Game ...

Not Paying A Box Price .... Ddo Store .... Quick Updates

That Is What Saved The Game ...

After A Year Of Nothing Coming Out There Was Still Strong Servers ... Game Wasnt Dead Yet ... If They Would Have Just Started Coming Out With Content On A Bi Monthly Basis Like They Did When The Game Was Popular In Year 1 They Never Would Have Needed F2p ... If They Had Done The Store Thing Before F2p They Never Would Have Needed F2p.

I Hate It That So Many Dont Understand Business Enough To See Where The Money Comes From ... They Just Spout Off Without Thinking There Arguement Through.

I Dont Hate F2p But I Do Think It Should Have Been Regulated ...

And There Is No Point To A Vip Program Where Vip's Dont Get Special Privalege ....

500tp Cant Even Buy You A Respec +0

Vip's Get Next To Nothing ... And Now We Get Locked Out Of Our Servers Too ...

Its Turbines Mess ... They Need To Fix It.

Sorry To Say It But If Your F2p (not Premium) And There Is A Vip Who Wants In And Your Not Actually In A Mission ... You Should Be Booted.


tfldnr :p

[Hayder]

and there is no point to a VIP program where VIP's dont get special privalege ....

VIP's get next to nothing ... and now we get locked out of our servers too ...

I am in disbelief over your statement. You're VIP and get all the adventure packs, extra bank slot, more character slots etc etc. Ok, I appreciate you pay a monthly fee but saying you don't get special privileges is just plain wrong.

All these F2P haters need to think things through as well. A group of us old PnP guys got together and started playing DDO as F2P players. Out of 6 of us, 4 are now premium, 2 are now VIP and as one of the premium players I'm seriously thinking of becoming VIP. It won't just be our group that became paying players. How many people do you think only tried it when it became F2P and then stayed on? Quite a few I would imagine. A game needs an influx of new players to stop it becoming stagnant.

You say the DDO store is what kept the game alive, would they have introduced it if F2P hadn't come about? I personally don't know of any other games that have a store when they have a monthly fee only (note the 'personally' bit). Quick updates - from what I've read in the thread you weren't getting them until F2P came out, so again a direct knock on effect from introducing F2P and the influx of money from the store.


I hate it that so many dont understand business enough to see where the money comes from ... they just spout off without thinking there arguement through.

I hate it when people ignore the facts and don't recognise what started the money rolling in and just spout off without thinking their counter arguments through. Business sense means nowt if you can't recognise the catalyst...

[Healsavant]

How the heck do I get 3neg rep from this thread, I see people outright bashing each other and I get the neg......prolly more f2p.....are they allowed in here?

[Robi3.0]

How the heck do I get 3neg rep from this thread, I see people outright bashing each other and I get the neg......prolly more f2p.....are they allowed in here?

I don't know it may have been something you said. In general people don't like being ranted about, or being suggested that they should be segregated. Especial when your issue has nothing to do with them.


Just a thought since you asked, and no I didn't -neg rep you.

[Eelpout]

when you use the argument 1 million new accounts you are assuming alot you are assuming ANY of them stays .. that is a pretty big assumption ... if you assume ANY of them spend money that is a pretty big assumption ... if you assume 200,000 new players at the premium account status ... that is insaine ....


Wouldn't a much bigger, crazier assumption be that out of 1 Million new accounts not one of them stayed on or purchased Turbine Points?

We lost what, 6?, servers before DDO:EU and gained 2 after. The new hybrid payment option is definately what is bringing this game its' success, and even though some/many of us VIP's are using the store, my crazy assumption is that wouldn't have been enough to bring things completely back around and make the game more successful than it's earlier peak.

[Drfirewater79]

Wouldn't a much bigger, crazier assumption be that out of 1 Million new accounts not one of them stayed on or purchased Turbine Points?

We lost what, 6?, servers before DDO:EU and gained 2 after. The new hybrid payment option is definately what is bringing this game its' success, and even though some/many of us VIP's are using the store, my crazy assumption is that wouldn't have been enough to bring things completely back around and make the game more successful than it's earlier peak.

I am not saying i dont think the game has gotten more new players ... the lag can tell you that much.

what i am saying is there is nothing in the state of the game address that can be used to dictate spending habbits of VIP's vs Pre2P vs f2p ... there is nothing that signifies the numbers of accounts that are active vs inactive ...

to think the game mysteriously became the next wow because of an address that gave no true numbers at all ... its insane ..

i would believe it if it was a monthly statement ... showing number of people who logged in this month every month .... then you would have a number that would make me see something worth arguing over.

All i am saying is both in game and in forum hearing more and more about how **** the VIP system is .. i think its about time turbine made the VIP more attractive ... not just a lazy mans way out.

[Kralgnax]

Why does this keep coming up... Every Sta/Sunday at prime time, there is a bug that affects logins... It appears that the client is unable to connect to the billing server and is unable to identify your account...

It seems to happen every week... Turbine is aware of the issue.. I blame the Data Center, not the F2P model... guess what keep trying to log in, and most cases in less than 15 minutes I get through...

And for what it's worth, since so many seem intent on blaming the F2P "freeloaders", many F2P people spend more on this game than VIP's... I know I do now...

The reason is likely because the login server is getting hammered hard - lots of folks logging in, things get wonky. This is not unique to DDO, and given the spike loading of the system, it isn't likely they'lll change that all that much - maybe some optimisation of the que, some load shedding (buh bye Mr. F2P dude!) & whatnot.

[Xeraphim]

Premium players are the one that spend the bucks, many of them more than most VIPs.:rolleyes:

Yet we get mistreated despite this fact.

Example: I cannot submit a Harrassment report from General chat when some serious drama is happening in the harbor while I am waiting for a raid to fill, or against someone who is griefing me for whatever reason with /tells.

[Kyrn]

since playing EvE, Darkfall and mucking around in Dawntide i've come to love the single-server world.

as DDO lends itself to this quite well (Instanced) is it not a idea to have Turbine spend a month of dev time to design a ala STO (1 server, LOTS of instances) system where we are all on the same server?

1 - one big communtie
2 - if there are 10k players on... there are 10k players on, not 5x2k.
3 - i hate the server selection screen and being cut of from 80% of the people becouse of a random uninformed pick at the first startup.

Not before they fix DPS lag, and the daily NPC lag. If they can't figure those two out, I will admit I don't have much confidence of them maintaining a large playerbase server.