Is is really so very hard to wait for a full group before entering a dungeon???

[Jemaniya]

Why!?! There is only one thing I hate more than a miss matched group and that's people who refuse to wait for a full party. Die every time. I'll wait a half hour to get the right members before I go in. Of course, I came from playing FFXI where you could wait up to an hour to get the right members for your party (that game HAD to have balance and full parties).

[Krag]

1. Dungeon scaling.
Shortmanning or soloing is often much easier than grouping with unknown people.

2. Easy dungeons.
You don't need perfect group to breeze through WW or eVoN1.

3. Limited time.
When you have 1-2 hours of free time to dispose of you don't want to waste 30 minutes doing nothing. P2P equals pay 2 play, not pay 2 wait.

[Morningfrost]

Why!?! There is only one thing I hate more than a miss matched group and that's people who refuse to wait for a full party. Die every time. I'll wait a half hour to get the right members before I go in. Of course, I came from playing FFXI where you could wait up to an hour to get the right members for your party (that game HAD to have balance and full parties).

About the waiting: your party, your rules. State in the LFM, and no one should complain about it. Of course, not everyone has a lot of spare time, so it may happen they have to leave before you go in.

About the full party: it is usually not needed. Surely it's not required if you aren't running elite. But I have done, for one, waterworks on elite at level or just under with a group of three (cleric/wizard/monk).

But again, if you wish for a full party, just tell everyone that there may be some delay and you should be fine.

[Zippo]

Why!?! There is only one thing I hate more than a miss matched group and that's people who refuse to wait for a full party. Die every time. I'll wait a half hour to get the right members before I go in. Of course, I came from playing FFXI where you could wait up to an hour to get the right members for your party (that game HAD to have balance and full parties).

http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Flexibility.jpg


I think this pretty much says it all

[Uskathoth]

I'm just the opposite. I get no pleasure from sitting around doing nothing for an hour while playing DDO. With dungeon scaling there is usually no need to wait for a full group. I'd much rather play the game than just stand around. Since I generally don't play for more than 2 hours at a time, spending half my game time waiting for a group would be enough to quickly put me off of playing at all.

Actually, except for raids and some other specific content, why wait? What's the value? It's not like a big group is more likely to succeed than a small group on most dungeons. I've encountered plenty of dungeons that are easier to solo than to run as a group (at least on normal).

[LunaCee]

Unless a certain class is quest critical or will contribute GREATLY to a smoother run I'm not going to sit around for a long time waiting to see if they will show up.

Will I wait a while for an arcane for Necropolis 2 quests? Absolutely! Firewall for the overwhelming number of incorporeal undead makes the runs faster and smoother like nobody's business. That is a case of something contributing a heck of a lot to making the actual quest runs themselves much faster & easier.

Though if its waiting another 30+ minutes to see if somebody else is flagged for a pre-raid that I could solo I'm just going to zip on out and start clearing it. If somebody else shows up and gets in before I'm done great. If not, not like it was a big deal anyways.

[sephiroth1084]

http://www.motivationalpostergallery.com/posters/Flexibility.jpg



I find this both off-puttingly odd, and strangely...arousing... :eek::rolleyes::o:D

[sephiroth1084]

Why!?! There is only one thing I hate more than a miss matched group and that's people who refuse to wait for a full party. Die every time. I'll wait a half hour to get the right members before I go in. Of course, I came from playing FFXI where you could wait up to an hour to get the right members for your party (that game HAD to have balance and full parties).
If you have people that know what they're doing nearly every quest in the game can be completed with a partial group, including raids and epic quests.

I'll admit that for some quests, or with some players, waiting a little bit longer to fill is often a good idea, but there are plenty of instances where the extra wait just isn't worth it. I suppose if you're used to waiting 30 minutes to an hour regularly from your experience with others game then then extra 5-30 minute waits here (sometimes much longer) can seem insignificant, but most people would rather be doing something than nothing.

[Uska]

You dont need a full party or the "perfect party" to do any quest in the game yeah it can be eaiser to do but I would rather play right away then waste my limited playing time waitng for the perfect party.

[gizmos19]

why do ppl always join a group wanting to be the leader

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I hate standing around.

I'll wait a few minutes, but any more is painful.

Put "In progress" on the LFm and go.

I am willing to help people catch up though. And I do prefer killing everything usually, so it shouldn't be a big deal to catch up.

I do not think someone should go in first, and then put up the LFM. But I can't say they are wrong either.

I understand that it is annoying to join late. I usually avoid "in progress" LFMs myself. At least for certain quests.

But like I said, I hate standing around. I'll try to be polite, but polite has a time limit. And it's very short.

I do like the quests that are in explorer areas just for this reason. It offers a compromise. I can go kill things while the group fills up.
For those quests, I usually wait longer. A lot longer. But eventually that gets old too.

[flynnjsw]

I think everyone has stated the prevailing opinion very well. Then again its not really opinion when its fact. When most of the game can be solo'd and even duo'd' then waiting for the perfect group is a waste of time better spent questing.

[Jemaniya]

I think everyone has stated the prevailing opinion very well. Then again its not really opinion when its fact. When most of the game can be solo'd and even duo'd' then waiting for the perfect group is a waste of time better spent questing.

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

[Rav'n]

1. Dungeon scaling.
Shortmanning or soloing is often much easier than grouping with unknown people.

2. Easy dungeons.
You don't need perfect group to breeze through WW or eVoN1.

3. Limited time.
When you have 1-2 hours of free time to dispose of you don't want to waste 30 minutes doing nothing. P2P equals pay 2 play, not pay 2 wait.

Comepletely agree w/ Kragg on this one. If you party wipe because you went in with a short Party... chances are you'll still party wipe with a full Party.... AND you killed that time waiting to fill the PERFECT group.

[Hobgoblin]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

so my monk that is level 10 and has never joined a group is a myth?

[twix]

Your joining the wrong groups for sure if they are starting quests and failing.Most lfms that i see that say in progress i look at as probably good groups because only weirdos wait for a full party for every quest.At low level there should be no reason to wait around for a full party.In fact even if im by myself ill start a lowbie quest before anyone joins my group.Much funner playing then waiting.

[Kirachan]

Since I'm German I play at off-times. It often takes half an hour to get 2-3 people together. So I often short man stuff, if everyone is ok with it, and almost always people are.
I mean, the worst thing that happens is we fail. No big deal. And if we make it, even better.

Of course I want to complete the quest, but the important thing is the playing. I can have a lot of fun even if we don't make a quest. I rarely have much fun waiting around.

[Quikster]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

So would I, thats why I mostly solo. I hate waiting for a full group until I start raiding, and thats usually because most raid instances cant be entered once they start. But pre raids, quests, etc. Start and put IP in the lfm.

You are wrong, the game absolutely can be soloed in 99% of the content.

[Jasam01]

With dungeon scaling, it makes no sence a lot of the time to wait for more members if your playing normal quests (In fact, I'm sure once or twice it's ended up harder overall as a result)

It's only those hard elite quests that you might want a full party to go... or raids of course.

Long and short of it, is this is NOT the kind of game hwere you NEED to wait for a full party like FFXI. Everythings instanced and never soo long that joining a party in progress is going to hurt.

[nibelung]

sitting around waiting is a waste of time, especially when the group fills and the people insist on doing casual..spineless

[Aesop]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

If the group is dying look at the reasons for the deaths... then don't do them again.

I'm not much of a soloer myself, but even I have solo'd thorough level 10 or so. Those who are really good can solo virtually the whole game (except for those quests that require more than 2 bodies)

I often took my level 5-7 Monk through Gwylans stand and completed it not opening any chests and then put up an lfm asking if anyone wanted free loot some would join we'd pop the chests and be done with it.

Did the same thing with several of my characters (much easier with evasion though)

A little self healing and tactical thought and you shouldn't have any problem short manning quests

Aesop

[KillEveryone]

Lately I've been putting "in progress, BYOH" and I take who ever clicks my LFM while I'm in the quest.

I don't feel like waiting for a group to fill when I know the quest and have done the quest many times for farming unless a specific class/stat/whatever specific is needed or if the quest requires more than a hireling for levers and most of the time a "balanced" party has not been needed.

If I have never done the quest then I'll wait for a few classes unless someone that joins has done the quest and can fill me in on a few details of what we need then I'll take the advice and go with it.

I just don't feel like waiting for more than 5 minutes. Off hours can take too long to fill a group and I play at off hours.

I do like to group but I don't want to wait. I want to play, not stand around, espically when I can get through a quest shortmanned in the same amount of time it takes to fill a party.

I've also notice that the players that join tend to be a higher quality. Basically, the people that join can solo the quest but when you get a group of people together that can solo the quest, the quest just gets sliced like butter with a hot knife. If I complete the quest with no one joining, so be it, if I get to just before the boss fight and someone joins, I'll wait for them to get inside the quest but I'll take care of the boss myself because I want to finish. It is however better when someone joins just after I get inside. I'll still start and make good progress but when they get in and start doing their thing then the quest goes along quickly.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Not the boss of me!

[Jakarr]

On All of my chars I make the number one thing I make sure of is I make sure he is self-sufficient. I can solo 1-20 np but this is a mmo and I do enjoy playin with other ppl, I'm just not going to wait around for this "perfect" grp ppl keep throwing around. Like a poster above me said I drop a Byoh on the lfm and a IP and start the quest, anyone who would like to join I let em in. No cleric/fvs/bard meh quests are more intresting without a healer imo, No rogue well here is some resist/protection and a jump buff lets do this ;)

[Impaqt]

Its not hard to wait, its just unnecessary.

The game CAN indeed be soloed and shortmanned successfully.

Waiting around is boring, Pushing yourself and even dying helps you get better.

Not to mention many folks haev XP Pots going. those aint free and waiting around for 1/2hour or more is just burning money.

In Progress, BYOH

learn it, Live it, Love it!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Its not worth waiting for more than a few minutes. You don't need a full group to do any quest in the game (or even raids). There are very few quests that even require a particular group makeup (although that can make it easier in some cases).

With dungeon scaling, its actually easier to go in shorthanded than with a full group.

Basically if your group is dying short handed, it would have died with more people - look to the group and what you are doing.

You may think its fun to sit around for an hour waiting for a group, I'd rather be playing for that hour.

[GhoulsTouch]

Whenever I lead I hardly ever have to wait long to fill a group because I am not waiting. I put up a LFM but also I am looking in the "Who" section of the Social menu for people who aren't in parties at the moment that are in the level range (possibly class) I am searching out.

I then send a tell explaining what quest we are doing, whether its ftp or ptp, and ask them if they would like to come along sending them an invite.

Otherwise 3 people with 2-3 Pocket clerics is a pretty easy feat on most quests if you know how to drive one. Whatever level you are, always have AT LEAST one melee class and a cleric hireling in your pack.

[PopeJual]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

I know that two different people can have different opinions, but when one person says something can't be done and another person says that they've done it, the person who has done it wins.

I can solo a lot of the game with my Paladin or my Wizard and I'm a fairly new player. Lots of quests and explorer zones are actually easier for me to solo than for me to complete with a party even if you don't count dungeon scaling.

I also see parties split up sometimes to get different jobs done faster (one person gets Arlos in the Waterworks while everyone else gets the optionals).

I agree that there needs to be a plan and that people need to listen and follow the plan, but soloing IS possible if the players know what they're doing and have characters that can handle it.

[karnokvolrath]

1. Dungeon scaling.
Shortmanning or soloing is often much easier than grouping with unknown people.

2. Easy dungeons.
You don't need perfect group to breeze through WW or eVoN1.

3. Limited time.
When you have 1-2 hours of free time to dispose of you don't want to waste 30 minutes doing nothing. P2P equals pay 2 play, not pay 2 wait.


This.

[Ghoste]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.
You just have to play smarter than the AI. That's it.

[SquelchHU]

Why!?! There is only one thing I hate more than a miss matched group and that's people who refuse to wait for a full party. Die every time. I'll wait a half hour to get the right members before I go in. Of course, I came from playing FFXI where you could wait up to an hour to get the right members for your party (that game HAD to have balance and full parties).

This is an awesome humor thread.

[Phidius]

1. Dungeon scaling.
Shortmanning or soloing is often much easier than grouping with unknown people.

2. Easy dungeons.
You don't need perfect group to breeze through WW or eVoN1.

3. Limited time.
When you have 1-2 hours of free time to dispose of you don't want to waste 30 minutes doing nothing. P2P equals pay 2 play, not pay 2 wait.

This... wish I had more rep to spread around, though.

[flynnjsw]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

You know, why mince words...you are wrong. Period.

[Zombiekenny]

If a group waits too long to go in I will drop. I'm not wasting time waiting for most quests.

[DANTEIL]

For what it's worth, ever since a couple of bad experiences I have decided to never again join a group that says "in progress" -- primarily because I don't like the feeling that I am always behind and will never be able to catch up, and other players haven't been all that pleasant on the occasions when I've gotten lost, etc (I avoid "know the quest" for the same reason -- I just don't know most of these quests well enough to have confidence in my ability to navigate them with the same speed/efficiency as others). I don't have anything against "BYOH," though, because self-sufficiency makes perfect sense to me -- I always have a full stock of Cure Serious potions and don't mind using them -- but I avoid those LFMs too, depending on the quest, because I'm squishy-wizard enough that I've found that I have a tendency to die in groups without a cleric, especially on hard/elite.

I completely agree, though, that most quests are quite doable without full groups or even balanced groups. Waiting for a group to fill every single time seems like an unnecessary policy to have.

[karnokvolrath]

With scaling in, i really dont see any reason to wait at all let alone bother pugging. I recently ran a sorc up to 16th with one other sorc and a barb. We rarely pugged and it took dramatically less time then any other char ive made. I pug with him alot more now just due to content and raiding, but in the middle levels its insainly faster just too 2/3man everything with people you know and trust.

[Quikster]

For what it's worth, ever since a couple of bad experiences I have decided to never again join a group that says "in progress" -- primarily because I don't like the feeling that I am always behind and will never be able to catch up, and other players haven't been all that pleasant on the occasions when I've gotten lost, etc (I avoid "know the quest" for the same reason -- I just don't know most of these quests well enough to have confidence in my ability to navigate them with the same speed/efficiency as others). I don't have anything against "BYOH," though, because self-sufficiency makes perfect sense to me -- I always have a full stock of Cure Serious potions and don't mind using them -- but I avoid those LFMs too, depending on the quest, because I'm squishy-wizard enough that I've found that I have a tendency to die in groups without a cleric, especially on hard/elite.

I completely agree, though, that most quests are quite doable without full groups or even balanced groups. Waiting for a group to fill every single time seems like an unnecessary policy to have.

Which is why when I go ip byoh I start the quest and then put up the lfm. If I have a lfm like that it means I'm not being patient, teaching, or hand holding. I respect you more for knowing your limits then the stubborn cat that continues to join IP lfms and then whining cuz they can't find the quest. It won't take long for you to know certain quests inside out and be totally comfortable getting there on your own.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

Yes (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238096) it (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=236351) can (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=188233) be (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=183259).

:)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

For what it's worth, ever since a couple of bad experiences I have decided to never again join a group that says "in progress" -- primarily because I don't like the feeling that I am always behind and will never be able to catch up, and other players haven't been all that pleasant on the occasions when I've gotten lost, etc (I avoid "know the quest" for the same reason -- I just don't know most of these quests well enough to have confidence in my ability to navigate them with the same speed/efficiency as others). I don't have anything against "BYOH," though, because self-sufficiency makes perfect sense to me -- I always have a full stock of Cure Serious potions and don't mind using them -- but I avoid those LFMs too, depending on the quest, because I'm squishy-wizard enough that I've found that I have a tendency to die in groups without a cleric, especially on hard/elite.

I completely agree, though, that most quests are quite doable without full groups or even balanced groups. Waiting for a group to fill every single time seems like an unnecessary policy to have.

I understand that. And I do avoid certain quests in progress. And will chose another LFM is available.

it is never my intention to leave people behind to fend for themselves. but I can't stand to just sit around waiting for a group to fill. Or waiting for someone to get to the quest, and get to the action in the quest.

I can enjoy quests at many different paces. but standing still doing nothing is not one of them.

There is only so much resupplying and rearranging of my inventory I can do.

[Matuse]

Yes, it -is- that hard to wait for a full group.

So if the rest of the group is 'tarding it up, I just go do the quest myself and if they catch up in time, good for them.

[Lorz]

Only those with out skill die and need full groups and balanced parties.

If the shoe fits......

Oh and we wont be seeing you posting for a while im pretty sure. Probably wont be seeing you in game either.

Enjoy.

[Zippo]

I have yet to be in a group that wanted to do casual but if we were able I'd do c/n/h/e. The object here is to get as many exp pnts as you can. Running a lvl for the 1st time gets extra exp.

Also, that lady stretching, she's not flexible - THIS is flexible: IMAGE EDITED :P

http://static.pyzam.com/img/funnypics/e/stopposting.jpg

[toastjeff]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies.

I remember your won't-join-a-group-without-a-healer thread. Don't you tire of posting ridiculous statements the community has spent four years disproving?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I remember your won't-join-a-group-without-a-healer thread. Don't you tire of posting ridiculous statements the community has spent four years disproving?

Oh is that the same person? That explains a lot.

[Uskathoth]

I have yet to be in a group that wanted to do casual but if we were able I'd do c/n/h/e. The object here is to get as many exp pnts as you can. Running a lvl for the 1st time gets extra exp.


I think that XP per hour is a much more meaningful metric than xp per mission since it's unlikely you're going to run out of missions before you out level them. Sitting around for a half hour kills your xp per hour rate.

[Geonis]

I'll try to be polite, but polite has a time limit. And it's very short.



^ Love this. :D

[cforce]

I see too many folks posting that most quests *can* be done solo, so why wait? C'mon folks -- you can take the gloves off, and not understate it. Since dungeon scaling was instituted, bringing in folks you don't know is typically making a quest *harder* to complete. I don't think I've posted a non-raid LFM since dungeon scaling was introduced. I know my guildies will typically make a quest easier. If I pick up randoms, though, there's a pretty good risk I'm going to make things more challenging. Why add the challenge of carrying someone through a quest when I can do it faster and with less risk myself?

Not trying to be an elitist, but dungeon scaling has made me that way -- let's say it like it is, folks.

[Jakylpops]

I see too many folks posting that most quests *can* be done solo, so why wait? C'mon folks -- you can take the gloves off, and not understate it. Since dungeon scaling was instituted, bringing in folks you don't know is typically making a quest *harder* to complete. I don't think I've posted a non-raid LFM since dungeon scaling was introduced. I know my guildies will typically make a quest easier. If I pick up randoms, though, there's a pretty good risk I'm going to make things more challenging. Why add the challenge of carrying someone through a quest when I can do it faster and with less risk myself?

Not trying to be an elitist, but dungeon scaling has made me that way -- let's say it like it is, folks.

They need to introduce the ability to boot troublesome party members mid-quest, this would solve alot of the problems encountered while pugging, there is absolutely no penalty for some chump who steps inti the dungeon and goes AFK until it's completed!!

Just yesterday I was in a group where the cleric did this 10 minutes into "the pit"

[Thanimal]

They need to introduce the ability to boot troublesome party members mid-quest

They had this originally. It comes with it own problems.


there is absolutely no penalty for some chump who steps inti the dungeon and goes AFK until it's completed!!

Unfortunately, that is untrue. Indirectly, dungeon scaling means that a quest becomes harder when a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th person is added. (There is no scaling thereafter, so the 5th and 6th person are indeed no cost if they go AFK.)

[sephiroth1084]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.
Overruled. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=246499)

Denied. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244051)

Admittedly, Shade and (to a lesser degree) I are skilled players with well-equipped characters and a considerable degree of quest knowledge, but those are also incredibly difficult quests.

Plenty of people manage to solo seemingly unsoloable quests. Short-manning is both harder (dungeon scaling) and easier (more power, greater variety), but entirely manageable so long as you aren't running with very weak characters/players whose only contribution is to scale the difficulty up further.

[Aspenor]

yes it is. for me, it's impossible.

[Falco_Easts]

That's just it. The game can't be soloed. The group ALWAYS dies. Impatience murders planning. I'd rather plan and have no deaths, get options, and move through dungeons smoothly and quickly.

OK, I'll bite. Why do you feel the game can't be soloed? I don't want your answer to flame it, I want your answer so hopefully we can give you some tips that will improve your gaming experience.
Is it lack of dedicated healing? Most classes can self heal but if not, grab a cleric hireling.
Getting mobbed by to many monsters to handle? Learn how to stealth and body pull.

What part do you have trouble with?

[PopeJual]

OK, I'll bite. Why do you feel the game can't be soloed? I don't want your answer to flame it, I want your answer so hopefully we can give you some tips that will improve your gaming experience.
Is it lack of dedicated healing? Most classes can self heal but if not, grab a cleric hireling.
Getting mobbed by to many monsters to handle? Learn how to stealth and body pull.

What part do you have trouble with?

I'll admit that I haven't learned to stealth and body pull yet. That's why I like having a Rogue/Wizard as my main right now.

LEEEEEERROOOOYYY JEEEENNKIIIINNSSSS!

And then Wall of Fire. :)

[Zippo]

yes it is. for me, it's impossible.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Sockydoodle/noobs.jpg


:D:D:D

[MeliCat]

hehehehe

I think I was about level 16 on my barb before I got into my first group that was short manned.

I was horrified!

But I went along with it and we completed. Shock!

And I tiptoed around the edges of epics thinking 'no way! too hard!'... and then the first one I did was short-manned with 2 awesome player guildies (Ulti and Onee).

It's interesting how I got into a mindset of but-this-is-the-way-its-done, and then I get shown a completely different way of doing things and it opens up a world of possibilities. So I will now 2 man stuff with uber guildies (whose uberness makes up for my ordinariness ). Still don't like soloing - and not really quests at level.

And I'll now get impatient waiting for groups to fill. Which sucks on a level 16 fighter with no UMD and really crappy saves.

[Tymoriel_Ayreweaver]

They need to introduce the ability to boot troublesome party members mid-quest, this would solve alot of the problems encountered while pugging, there is absolutely no penalty for some chump who steps inti the dungeon and goes AFK until it's completed!!

Just yesterday I was in a group where the cleric did this 10 minutes into "the pit"

I hear you but that would create way way more problems. That opens up a world of griefing and idiots who will boot for petty and childish reasons... I.E. they suck and you don't.. doubling their kill count... BOOT :P