Questions about getting the most out of your skill points

[AdahnX]

Ok, I know that Jump caps at 40, the jump spell gives +30, so anything higher than 10 is pretty much a waste.

I know that 1 point in tumble and a positive mod after Dex and Armor is all you need to unlock the ability, and beyond that it's just flavor/animation change (and less falling damage but Feather Fall is plentiful).

I've also heard that a Bluff of 5 is necessary for the -single- instance where it is relevant as a conversation skill (which is easily handled with an item swap). Still haven't heard of any Diplomacy conversations, despite the statement in the skill descriptions "...and is useful in certain NPC conversations" or something like that.

But I cannot find any conclusive information on Trap DCs (and is the Search DC the same as the Disable DC?), Locks, and especially Balance and Spot. Though many make mention of Balance and Spot as skills to sprinkle a little bit into after all your other concerns are taken care of (and still others cite them as absolutely necessary to max), no one has thus far offered any specific DCs, at least not in my research. How little is too little? Does anyone have information on these particular skills? Also if anyone knows about how high your Stealth skills have to be to get past most enemies' perception skills that would be a help.

Also, I have not been able to determine conclusively exactly what Abundant Step/Leap of Faith does. The feat description is very vague. Is it a Jump spell clickie? Does it raise the Jump cap? Is it worth it to take Monk all the way to 12 just to get some vague indeterminate jump advantage?

I'm working on a Thief/Monk exploration build and skill points are spread a little thin so I'd like to know where I can skimp and still have access to all the locked doors/high jumps/any other hidden area that requires a particular skill to reach without completely gimping myself in combat (though I know a lot of people would consider anything besides one of the established cookie cutter power builds to be gimped, but hey, I feel like running around like a chicken with my head cut off and jumping around like an idiot every once in a while. It's also part of my Server Themed Characters chain. This one for Orien in particular).

[ragwa1]

You absolutly sure? I cap at 52 or 53.

[Hecore]

1. Jump: While you don't get any additional height from Jump after 40, only having 10 points in the skill may be a little short sighted. To get the +30 enhancement you either need an arcane who will do so, or carry around the high level belt that gives a Jump clicky, or carry an item or potions for the times you need to jump. It isn't a super important skill to keep up, but having a few more points in is usually better than those same points in something like Haggle.

2. Tumble: Tumble has several mechanical benefits as well. It lets you roll more quickly through hip-deep water and you can roll at full speed if effected by abilities like Troglodyte Stench. Additional points in the skill let you roll faster and at a certain point (in the 30's or 40's) your animation becomes cooler looking. You probably want a positive modifier in any case unless you like taking a small amount of damage every time you make any kind of teeny, minor fall.

3. Bluff and Diplomacy: These skills have a few instances in the game where you can talk to NPC's to bypass challenges - VON2 and POP for example. However, both skills are mostly worthless; Bluff lets you get off one sneak attack vs. a foe and Diplomacy sheds aggro... possibly onto the wizard or cleric, or just ****ing off an equally fragile melee character. The few times you can use this skill in NPC conversations is not worth it.

4. Traps: Keep max ranks in Search and Disable Device and have the highest + item available for your level and you're pretty much set. You want Balance at about 10 or so, and Spot should either get any extra points you can throw to it or none at all - the skill helps you notice traps, but you can Search out a trap box even if you don't Spot it.

5. Leap of Faith: It lets you shoot forward a small distance without dropping in height. It's pretty neat, but not worth leveling to Monk 12 if that's the only thing you want.

6. Skills: Max Disable Device, Search, and Use Magic Device. Keep Spot as high as you can. Put a minimum of 4 points in Jump and Balance. 4 points in Open Lock is enough for most locks in the game, but you can put it higher if you want. Put 1 rank into Tumble.

You may stick extra ranks into Haggle, or Hide and Move Silently - if you do the latter, make sure to get the faster sneaking enhancements.

[AdahnX]

I assume you're referring to Jump? Well, the skill # itself doesn't cap but what I heard is that the jump height doesn't go any higher past 40. Probably with good reason.

[AdahnX]

Thanks for all the info. Very helpful.

1- You're right about relying on the Jump Spell. I'll probably invest a little more in it, since it is a key part of my build goals.

2- Doing fancy backflips isn't all that important to me. At least not worth 20 more skill points.

3- I was already pretty sure that they were pretty much useless in combat. Like you alluded to, Diplo just makes the enemy find another target. There's no guarantee that it's going to be the Tank (unless they happen to have Intimidate but then you don't need Diplo anyway). Still might have considered putting a couple points into them to get me through the dialogues. That's how I always played Torment and NWN. But I guess in DDO navigating conversations isn't as big of a deal.

4- I kind of had a feeling about keeping Search and Disable maxed, from what I've read so far and my own IG discoveries.

5- So what I'm getting out of this is it's not going to help me climb or cross chasms. It's just a shortcut to the enemy, more like a Charge attack. That lets me take more Rogue levels, which will give me more skill points to play around with.

6- Wow, 4 in Open Locks and Balance will get me through most of the game? I'm guessing that more ranks in Balance will further decrease the duration of the Trip, so I might invest a little more there if I can afford it. Also the fact of this being an Orien themed character I was planning on investing in the Skill enhancements, and also thinking about grabbing a level or two of the Acrobat PrC (depending on what my final Rogue level happens to be), for which Balance enhancements are also a prerequisite.

Still wondering what my target should be for Spot and Stealth though. From what most people have said they don't need to be maxed, but they still need to be kind of up there. Specific numbers would be good though, or ranges.