Question about dps rogue specs. Please help.

[Indalamar]

Hi, I've been playing for a couple weeks now and am really enjoying my rogue. I'm currently working on a Drow assassin rogue and while I've been enjoying my character all and all I'd like to optimize him as much as possible at this point. With that in mind I have the following questions I'm hoping someone can answer.

Is assassin the best dps I can get out of my rogue?

Is drow the right race or should I be halfing or human instead?

Are Khopeshes something I should be specing/stating for or are rapiers just as good?

I'm open to any and all feedback people have as well as links to character builds. Currently I play with a group of friends regularly so being able to spot/search/disable/pick are all important to me.

Also are hide and move silent good for some reason I can't figure out? I've tried "stealthing" a couple missions before but inevitably I get to a door I pick open and then when I actually open it I pop out of stealth and everything near by jumps me and I have to fight it anyways.

Any help that you veteran guys can offer would be much appreciated. I've already bought 32 point builds and have no problem ressurecting my guy to fix any mistakes I've made.

PS I currently have 30 dex at level 12 but I havent been able to find armor to allow for more then +6 of that +10 to apply, is there something I should be looking for that I don't know about?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Is assassin the best dps I can get out of my rogue?

Is drow the right race or should I be halfing or human instead?

Are Khopeshes something I should be specing/stating for or are rapiers just as good?

Also are hide and move silent good for some reason I can't figure out?

PS I currently have 30 dex at level 12 but I havent been able to find armor to allow for more then +6 of that +10 to apply, is there something I should be looking for that I don't know about?

1) Assassin doesn't affect your DPS. What it does allow is instant kills. It's generally considered the best line to go into if you're looking for damage though. Acrobat and Mechanic are for more of a utility.

2) Drow is alright. Espcially if you're TWF, and using...

3) Rapiers! As a drow, with the enhancements, Rapiers are just as good if not better than a Khopesh.

4) Sneaking is only useful if solo or if the party is willing to let you sneak ahead to scout or whatever. Most players ignore it.

5) The armor restriction is only on your Armor Class. You'll still get full Dex to skills and attacks. If you want, though, you can wear robes/outfits and get some Armored Bracers. That way you'll get full Dex to AC.

[Trillea]

1) Assassin doesn't affect your DPS. What it does allow is instant kills. It's generally considered the best line to go into if you're looking for damage though. Acrobat and Mechanic are for more of a utility.

2) Drow is alright. Espcially if you're TWF, and using...

3) Rapiers! As a drow, with the enhancements, Rapiers are just as good if not better than a Khopesh.
Per the hard numbers a khopesh is better, but only just barely. Rapiers are VERY close in the hands of a drow.

4) Sneaking is only useful if solo or if the party is willing to let you sneak ahead to scout or whatever. Most players ignore it.

5) The armor restriction is only on your Armor Class. You'll still get full Dex to skills and attacks. If you want, though, you can wear robes/outfits and get some Armored Bracers. That way you'll get full Dex to AC.

All of this is valid, and decent advice. With more details of your build, we may have more helpful advice.

[hydra_ex]

Iirc, assassin has a mild DPS increase in that in grants a small seeker bonus (2 per tier) to crit damage. Not sure if it stacks with BS, but I would assume yes.

[kamimitsu]

Most of the points have been addressed, so I'll just cover a few and add some info.

As mentioned, stealth is a whole new ballgame and really reserved for soloing (or a VERY patient group). Be aware there are many tricks: breaking boxes to move monsters to the noise, throwing weapons from cover near a monster, opening doors from the side and out of line of sight, and more. There are some great stealth tips and videos from Ghoste, MrCow and others available to help you learn some of the finer points. I've been a stealth player for a while, and I still don't know all the ins and outs.

30 DEX is the marker for robes/armored bracers. If you are at or over 30, start stocking up on robes and outfits with desirable attributes and find a pair of Armor 6 (or better) bracers. Robes switch nearly instantly, so they can be a good way of covering elemental resists (one for each element), false life (for extra HP), etc. Eventually, you'll move into Dragontouched and bank most of them, so don't spend too much. But, if you find a good deal before level 16 or so, snatch it up.

[Indalamar]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2782313&postcount=5

This is the spec I'm using. Drow speced almost exactly what the post says to do.

[Vahyor]

Strength based halfling assassin using khopeshes with all the sneak attack enhancements and GTWF will most likely be your best dps. Rapier using drow will still do well if you don't want to reroll as a halfling though. Just make sure you keep your strength high as well as your dex.

Don't forget power attack :)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

There is a high level raid called the Shroud, that allows you to eventually craft custom made weapons.

A popular Rogue weapon can have an effect that blinds monsters on a critical hit and allows sneak attack damage even if you have agro.

Because of that weapon effect, a Str based thug-like rogue can actually have the best DPS of any rogue build.... (eventually)

Now that we have lesser and greater reincarnations, it would be possible to play a dex based rogue up until you can craft the Shroud weapon with the radiance (blinding effect). Then change your char's stats to a Str based build.

Rapiers have the best crit range of any weapon and this makes effects that depend on crits more powerful on a rapier than anything else.
But Khopeshes crit good too, and do more damage in general.

Rogue get a lot from a high dex IMO. Which makes Rapiers a popular choice for rogues. Drow get some enhancements for Rapiers and Short Swords.

I like Drow Assassins.
But the highest lvl quests limit the benefits of assassins. But there are many lower level quest that you can have fun in.

I do think that assassin has the best Rogue DPS. But like I said many of the benefits eventually disappear at the highest levels of play.

Sneaking.
It saddens me that even expert sneakers think it is useless in groups. I totally disagree with that. There are many ways to use it even in the fastest of zerging groups IMO.
Although most of the same techniques don't really require any investment in Hide/MS to pull off.

I think it is a big mistake to not invest in hide/ms on a rogue. You may never use them, but they are a powerful tool that should not be overlooked IMO.

The highest DPS rogue at end game (can't beleive I keep using that phrase) is probably not an assassin. It is probably not a Drow. It is probably Str based, and Dex makes no contribution to DPS for a Str based build.
it probably does not use a Rapier, and probably does use a Khopesh.
And is probably too worried about sacrificing DPS to ever consider using stealth skills.

hope that helps.

[unbongwah]

Is drow the right race or should I be halfing or human instead?
There are pros & cons to every race for rogues: drow get DEX, INT, Search, Spot, & rapier bonuses but have lower CON; halflings get DEX, flanking, sneak attack, and stealth bonuses and can take the healing `Marks but have lower STR; humans get an extra feat & skill points and have better self-healing but no DEX or rogue skill bonuses. I'd say drow or halfling are a better choice for a DEX-based Assassin; it's kind of a wash for a STR-based rogue.

Are Khopeshes something I should be specing/stating for or are rapiers just as good?
Rapiers have three advantages over khopeshes for drow rogues: higher crit range (which makes rapiers better for procing special effects like Blinding), racial enh bonuses, and saves a feat. I would stick with rapiers.

Also are hide and move silent good for some reason I can't figure out?
The Assassinate ability (from Assassin II PrE) must be a sneak attack made from stealth. So if you plan on using that, don't ignore your stealth skills.

Apart from that, using stealth requires patience & practice to figure out how to take advantage of it - and a group willing to indulge you if you're not soloing.

I've tried "stealthing" a couple missions before but inevitably I get to a door I pick open and then when I actually open it I pop out of stealth and everything near by jumps me and I have to fight it anyways.
Try opening the door from the side rather than in front so the mobs can't see you when it opens, then pop stealth back on immediately. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

PS I currently have 30 dex at level 12 but I havent been able to find armor to allow for more then +6 of that +10 to apply, is there something I should be looking for that I don't know about?
Max DEX bonus on armor is 8 on padded, IIRC; past that you switch to robes & AC bracers or the like.

[Narwe]

On your stealth problem; stealth up to the side of the door (they can hear your approach through the closed door if you dont), open it, then re-stealth without taking a step, then you can move on. If you take a step while un-stealthed, they will hear you.

ps welcome back shiz!

[kamimitsu]

ps welcome back shiz!

Not quite back yet, still just wading about the forums. Should have the new comp sometime next week (finally found a job!!!).

Apologies to OP for derailment of thread. We now return you to your regularly scheduled commentary.

[ghortagg]

5) The armor restriction is only on your Armor Class. You'll still get full Dex to skills and attacks. If you want, though, you can wear robes/outfits and get some Armored Bracers. That way you'll get full Dex to AC.


thank you man, you made my day.

i m around 28 dex right now, and i was desperate to find that there are not many named robes geared toward rogues.

so i may trade 1 or 2 points of AC for the nice side effects of Gianhold Armors

(though to me but not getting the aggro works better than trying to reach decent AC)

[Timjc86]

Is assassin the best dps I can get out of my rogue?

Technically yes. The DPS boosts from the Assassin prestige line are minimal, but Acrobat and Mechanic have none (aside from rare situations.) IIRC you get a +2 seeker bonus (which does NOT stack with seeker items unfortunately) as well as a to-hit bonus for sneak attacks each tier.

Assassin's real benefits are the instant-kills. Assassinate at tier 2 has debatable usefulness - I love it, others hate it; either way it requires practice. The vorpal strikes at tier 3 are quite nice, until you get to epic content and everything is immune.

Is drow the right race or should I be halfing or human instead?

Race is up to you. Each has nice benefits that synergize well with the rogue class and none of them make enough of a difference to justify a mandatory race. If you like drow stick with it. The rapier enhancements are nice, as are the bonuses to dex, int, and cha.

Are Khopeshes something I should be specing/stating for or are rapiers just as good?

As a drow, no. Once again, there are minor DPS differences between khopeshes and racially enhanced rapiers, but they're not big enough to mandate one over the other. As a drow you don't have an extra feat but you do have rapier enhancements - I'd stick with rapiers.

I'm open to any and all feedback people have as well as links to character builds. Currently I play with a group of friends regularly so being able to spot/search/disable/pick are all important to me.

Just keep those skills maxed and keep an eye out for items that provide the maximum bonus for your level (generally the bonus = the level, i.e. the best disable item at level 13 with no race restrictions provides a +13 bonus. A higher tier bonus is generally available about every two to three levels.)

As for the build you linked, it looks good. I'd say there are too many points in intelligence, but the build hits the must have levels in important stats so that's fine. You've got enough str to get power attack, you've got a lot of dex but not too much, you've got enough con to not get one hit. Looks fine.

Also are hide and move silent good for some reason I can't figure out? I've tried "stealthing" a couple missions before but inevitably I get to a door I pick open and then when I actually open it I pop out of stealth and everything near by jumps me and I have to fight it anyways.

Stealth is a very interesting aspect of the game with many nuances that are difficult to pick up. I would look for threads by Ghoste and Mr. Cow as both have explored stealth mechanics pretty fully. Other than that, just practice. Make sure you don't move out of stealth (as you'll automatically get heard if you're close enough to mobs.)

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