Why do people complain about not being able to solo?

[Bobthesponge]

i keep seeing posters whining about not being able to solo every quest in the game. usually it is something like Tor where the whiner complains about a stupid quest design that forces them to be in more than one place at a time to pull levers/do something simpultaneously. i don't understand why these people are complaining. don't they understand the nature of the game? this game was not designed to be played by one person. PnP was not designed to be played by one person. why are people upset that you need more than one person to accomplish things?

this is a game that ideally puts a premium on cooperation between various characters to accomplish a common goal. many of the quests in here can be done solo and i often solo when i am leveling or if i need to farm - or even just to screw around and see if i can solo something - but all of the quests in DDO should not be soloable. that is against the spirit of the game.

if i hear one more person complain about having to group up to farm a planar gird i am gonna punch them. and since they are essentially a cartoon on my computer screen i might break my nice, expensive moniter and i don't want to do that.

/endrant

[DoctorWhofan]

WElcome to the game.

+1 rep for getting it.

Solo should be a CHALLENGE, not easier. But I may be in the minority on this.

[rezo]

/ not team players and don't want to share with other ( more for raid loot than any other, lol ).

[lutherl]

Why do people complain about people who complain about ____X____? Don't these people realize that there are pretty much only three types who will read the thread? Those who agree with complaints against the complainers about ____X____ and those who do not agree with complaints about the complainers about ___X___. The third type is the types who read ___X___ threads for the drama and don't much care about the subject itself. Nobody's going to change anyone's mind about ___X___; and that goes for both the complainers and complaint-complainers.

[Diarden]

I agree man. The advent of Casual mode really killed it for me.

It was cool that there were some solo quests at level 1, but seeing people only run Prey on casual for tempest runes, or soloing their way up only on casual kills the game.

Feats like running certain things on Elite, or even soloing stuff on Epic (I can solo a couple Epic quests, takes a lot of skill, so props to those that can) is fine and dandy, but as the OP stated, this game was created with groups in mind.

[Dirac]

The answer is not terribly controversial. Many people can play the game for more hours than they can group. They may be able to play, but have RL obligations that force them to be afk a lot. While they want to group when they can, they would like to be productive for that period of time when they can play but not group. This is a perfect time to do boring things like farming a particular quest over and over for items. Thus, they like to be able to solo things like Tor or Xorian Cipher.

[KingOfCheese]

Why do people complain about people who complain about ____X____? Don't these people realize that there are pretty much only three types who will read the thread? Those who agree with complaints against the complainers about ____X____ and those who do not agree with complaints about the complainers about ___X___. The third type is the types who read ___X___ threads for the drama and don't much care about the subject itself. Nobody's going to change anyone's mind about ___X___; and that goes for both the complainers and complaint-complainers.

I think you just complained about someone complaining about complaining. :)

[Bobthesponge]

i came here for an argument.

[Kemoc]

No you didn't.

[Diarden]

No, you want room 12A next door.

[Chai]

I too find it rather ironic that people will join an MMO with thousands of players on a server and want to do nothing but solo their way through the entire game.

You might be encountering people from the WOW runoff whose moms cancelled their subs so they can play this free game. You cant live in her basement AND make her pay your WOW sub, right? In that game the best way to gain xp was soloing, and a level 30 character could flog 3 or 4 level 35 mobs at once in order to rack up xp points.

You mean I have to co-operate with other players to attain my goals? /cry.

Its so much easier to be antisocial and call people noobs all day.

[lutherl]

I think you just complained about someone complaining about complaining. :)

No I didn't you evil (choose one):

a) complainer!
b) complaint-complainer!
c) anti-complainer!
d) all of the above!

[Drakos]

WElcome to the game.

+1 rep for getting it.

Solo should be a CHALLENGE, not easier. But I may be in the minority on this.

Totally agree that is should be a challenge.

[opuscon]

Some 4 year veterans of this game whine and point fingers and embarrass some of us newer players when things go south. I'd rather solo then listen to man whimpers over a game. Less whine, more solo grind is how I roll.

[Drakos]

i keep seeing posters whining about not being able to solo every quest in the game. usually it is something like Tor where the whiner complains about a stupid quest design that forces them to be in more than one place at a time to pull levers/do something simpultaneously. i don't understand why these people are complaining. don't they understand the nature of the game? this game was not designed to be played by one person. PnP was not designed to be played by one person. why are people upset that you need more than one person to accomplish things?

this is a game that ideally puts a premium on cooperation between various characters to accomplish a common goal. many of the quests in here can be done solo and i often solo when i am leveling or if i need to farm - or even just to screw around and see if i can solo something - but all of the quests in DDO should not be soloable. that is against the spirit of the game.

if i hear one more person complain about having to group up to farm a planar gird i am gonna punch them. and since they are essentially a cartoon on my computer screen i might break my nice, expensive moniter and i don't want to do that.

/endrant
There are several schools of thought. Some don't like PUG's, Some are on during off-hours, some like to see if it can be done, and some have cheezed enough people off they don't have a choice.

The thing is that PnP is not playable alone because there is a need for a DM and a player. That restriction doesn't exist here, so it is doable. The thing is why. I mentiooned a few reasons above but anyone who does solo does so for their own reasons.

Me I like to do both. Some characters are for team play, some are for solo only, most are for both depending on my mood. With that being said, I'm not comming here and whinning "This quest is to hard to solo" or "quest x sucks because you can't solo it". If I can't solo a quest tough noogies for me. Get a team and do it.

Also when I do solo, I never choose the solo difficulty. WAY to easy. I have one character who is solo only, and he does everything on Normal/Hard/Elite and then moves on. Well, anymore it is just Hard/Eliet since I am leveling past quests. I would do Normal and/Hard only but this is also my Favor hound and elite is where the favor is so...

[GhoulsTouch]

I think it has to do alot about farming items more then anything. Some people do quests just to find a certain item they have sought after time and again and have never been able to get them so feel cheated.

Not many people like to repeat quests over and over, so soloing is the only option for some so they can get those things.

Other times people may feel stressed when doing certain quests with groups. Some quests are easier to solo then trying to watch everyone's back, keep up with zergers, sometimes making foolish decisions in haste dependent on other people's actions and alot of times ends up in self sacrifice up to and including death.

Some people like to take it slow too and explore, get to know a quest before they run it with others.

Try not to judge a person's character if they solo from time to time. Sometimes it's only because they feel good that they could do it alone.

Everyone here I am almost certain both runs with groups and solos...and that's how it should be when I think about it.

[Tinrae]

I duo rather than solo, so a game that is friendly to small parties is a must for me. I play these games with my husband, and many times groups will only want to take one of us rather than both depending on party makeup. We play as a package deal though because this is one of our shared hobbies, besides cooking and gardening. :)

Still, I don't believe we'd get bent out of shape if we couldn't duo a raid or something like that. That's what guilds are for. ;)

[My2Cents]

<havent read entire thread yet>

As to the issue of complaining, I don't understand why people complain about anything <but is this in itself also a complaint?>

As to soloing, I am -required- by schedule and life commitments to mostly solo. I believe a good community can and should support BOTH options. I've soloed in PnP as well. While the idea of grouping has all the advantages you stated, I just don't have the ability to schedule enough time, alone, to do much grouping. Not that I don't want to, or would enjoy it.

So, some ofus enjoy and/are required to play our games solo much of the time. Isn't it wonderful that a game like DDO can provide BOTh the group and solo experience so we can have both?

[dopamine]

Some 4 year veterans of this game whine and point fingers and embarrass some of us newer players when things go south. I'd rather solo then listen to man whimpers over a game. Less whine, more solo grind is how I roll.

too true, only people I see crying are the so called "vets". thanks devs for the easy buttons. Keep em coming!!

[Lakeland]

I like to solo because sometimes there isn't a viable group so it beats sitting around doing nothing. You might say "you can't even find one other person?" and the answer is.. yes and no. I can find one other person, but the problem is finding people that don't mind not having a perfect group OR people that have figured out what a potion is. I have a better chance soloing something then doing it with one or two others if they have zero concept of being self sufficient. So yes I am happy with anything in this game that helps me solo, that's not being anti-social that's being honest. I love to group, I don't even mind PuG's (even though they have been VERY trying on me lately) but my play time (weekday days) doesn't always lend itself to getting a group.

My question is why do people care if other people want to (or complain about the ability to) solo? :confused:

[Bobthesponge]

hey all, thanks for the replies - i even got my argument. :-)

in any case my original whine was not meant to mean that there should be no soloing. i even stated that i do solo when favor grinding, ingredient/sigil piece/whatever grinding, leveling, ect and also solo for the fun of it - i remember how happy i was when i first solod TBF way back when. when leveling my TR i often solod rather than trust a pug party that can lose me valuable XP by dying.

the whine was focused at people who complain about certain quests that CAN'T be solod and call it a bad game design. the whole concept of DnD was group play and yes, DDO does allow soloing, but to me teamwork is an essential part of the game and the part i enjoy most. if you like to solo then fine - in fact there is at least one high level quest that is solo only (part of IQ/dreamsunder series - don't remember the name). i completely agree that soloing is part of DDO and if RL or whatever means you solo most of the time then have fun and good luck. just don't complain about quests that require parties because that is the core element of the game.

DDO is like sex - soloing is fun but it is much more exciting with a group.

[Ron]

There are several schools of thought. Some don't like PUG's, Some are on during off-hours, some like to see if it can be done, and some have cheezed enough people off they don't have a choice.

Me I like to do both. Some characters are for team play, some are for solo only, most are for both depending on my mood. With that being said, I'm not comming here and whinning "This quest is to hard to solo" or "quest x sucks because you can't solo it". If I can't solo a quest tough noogies for me. Get a team and do it.

+1 for getting it.

I highlighted in bold the parts I particularly agree with.

A pure soloist used to be a tough challenge, probably the most difficult thing to do in the entire game, and was the primary reason I used to do it. That's no longer the case now (with the advent of dungeon scaling and casual mode). But still, sometimes I like to pull out my pure soloist just to have fun with her in a more relaxing environment (being with a group is great and all, but it does pigeon-hole you into a particular role. Sometimes it's fun just to do whatever the heck you want to without that pressure).

One thing I think people don't get when they complain about soloists. Just because this game was designed around groups and is a MMOG, doesn't mean you can't enjoy yourself on your own. Being alone in a dungeon really gives you a chance to explore all the nooks and crannies, which is something I like to do from time to time.

[Lakeland]

DDO is like sex - soloing is fun but it is much more exciting with a group.

Just like sex, you will always reach your end result solo, with a group you might just end up worked up and ****ed off. ;)

[GhoulsTouch]

I like to solo because sometimes there isn't a viable group so it beats sitting around doing nothing. You might say "you can't even find one other person?" and the answer is.. yes and no. I can find one other person, but the problem is finding people that don't mind not having a perfect group OR people that have figured out what a potion is.
:

I can agree with this.
Even when I am not the healer I get annoyed seeing people sit at half hp during quests that have shrines few and far between expecting to be healed without at least chugging a couple potions. Yes I can understand it costs, but it may cost the quest which is far more valueable.

And if you think you might not get the responses you'd like to your invites you start to wonder if these same people are going to drain your resources if they don't know how to handle in small groups.

I don't care if you have 5 other Divine casters in your party, if you aren't prepared to take care of yourself even a little you missed a huge lesson early on.Not saying you have to, just be prepared if you do.

Though I have been with some bad clerics too, don't get me started on that. If a person is struggling, doing their part, and making an attempt at healing themselves when you are sitting at full life and an almost full spell bar and you are too busy chasing something you aren't doing a great job hitting instead while your fellow is helpless and being mobbed it is better to solo. Please do.

[GhoulsTouch]

hey all, thanks for the replies - i even got my argument. :-).

the whine was focused at people who complain about certain quests that CAN'T be solod and call it a bad game design. the whole concept of DnD was group play and yes, DDO does allow soloing, but to me teamwork is an essential part of the game and the part i enjoy most. .

Doh!!!

After scanning through all the posts I jumbled in what you had to say.

Too true, absolutely.

[donfilibuster]

Pro Solo/Casual:
Everyone that likes baseball have to play in the Major Leagues?

Anti Solo/Casual:
Can you play baseball without two teams of nine people?

[Jendrak]

I like to solo because sometimes there isn't a viable group so it beats sitting around doing nothing. You might say "you can't even find one other person?" and the answer is.. yes and no. I can find one other person, but the problem is finding people that don't mind not having a perfect group OR people that have figured out what a potion is. I have a better chance soloing something then doing it with one or two others if they have zero concept of being self sufficient. So yes I am happy with anything in this game that helps me solo, that's not being anti-social that's being honest. I love to group, I don't even mind PuG's (even though they have been VERY trying on me lately) but my play time (weekday days) doesn't always lend itself to getting a group.

My question is why do people care if other people want to (or complain about the ability to) solo? :confused:

It's not that we care if people solo quest. Most of us have solo'ed from time to time simply because its easier than wasteing the time to build a group for something we can just do our selves. Whaat most of us don't want is the game being dumbed down so that the whole thing can be soloed.


too true, only people I see crying are the so called "vets". thanks devs for the easy buttons. Keep em coming!!

This is exactly the kinda of thing we don't want. A game shouldnt be easy. If you want an easy button try this. (http://hko.aeriagames.com/)

[Kromize]

This game was designed so you could waste your time with other people, not alone. :rolleyes:

[Falco_Easts]

Reading this thread, I just realised that I am starting to get annoyed at people who don't think this game should be soloable.
It is a playstyle and one used by an increasing amount of players since the advent of F2P. The ability to solo is also something that keeps alot of players here. With my lifestyle I can't/won't group. I will not put a party through continual AFK's when by infant son wants some attention or my partner needs a hand with something. I enjoy the game, and I enjoy playing it and when I can guarentee I have enough time to group, I enjoy grouping but without the ability to solo i would not be here. I would not be contributing on the forums nor would I be helping the new players in the harbour.
Is D&D a grouping game, off course it it. It was also played with Elf as a class originally. The game evolved and changed over time. Elf is now a race and D&D can be enjoyed by people who don't have time in their life to enjoy it any other way then online when they can spare a few minutes.
The ability to solo keeps/brings a lot of people to the game and in the end affects your grouping gameplay not at all.

[ellamonster]

The answer is not terribly controversial. Many people can play the game for more hours than they can group. They may be able to play, but have RL obligations that force them to be afk a lot. While they want to group when they can, they would like to be productive for that period of time when they can play but not group. This is a perfect time to do boring things like farming a particular quest over and over for items. Thus, they like to be able to solo things like Tor or Xorian Cipher.

Totally agree with this one! I don't think every quest should be soloable I like the game the way it is, however I hate the "why play an MMO . . ." argument. If I am playing a quest, making dinner, and talking to my wife I will afk a lot, not a good group thing. I do belong to a guild and go on guild raids and help out guildies but not until later at night when the kids are in bed. :D

[Lorz]

WElcome to the game.

+1 rep for getting it.

Solo should be a CHALLENGE, not easier. But I may be in the minority on this.

If this is the minority view oh well...it is the view I hold too and most every one I run with.
Games gotten easy enough as it is.

/and yes a few quests are best done in groups but the vast majority can be run solo.....course you gotta step up your game to do lots of them solo....but hey what doesn't kill you makes your stronger...and sometimes what kills you makes you smarter as a player. :)

[lutherl]

Officially, as a dedicated soloist (and I only speak for myself here)...I solo when my RL friends aren't on.

This game is very solo friendly. It allows a full meaningful progression if you can handle it. I got "addicted" to soloing when playing EQ (which-back in the day-was only solo friendly to a few classes) because of the challenge. You see that feeling echoed here when people "brag" about soloing ___X___. I think that's cool.

I think it's cool that I can run a dungeon on normal and assess my ability to run it on hard..or elite..or if I need to hold off for (another level/better armor/better weapons/etc). Further, with the relatively light death penalty, it encourages experimentation and risk-taking.

And further, I think I've become a better player by soloing. I've learned to stretch my resources. My RL friends (who don't have near the playtime or experience that i do) and I were doing Proof is in the Poison a few weeks ago. They didn't listen to my warnings and were quickly killed. They didn't provide for their own survival...they weren't buffing, etc. I made them watch as I put them in my pack and soloed 80% of the dungeon until I got to the res shrine. They watched. Some of them learned why it was a bad idea to just rush into a fight. They learned why it was a good idea to fight in doorways instead of in the middle of the room. They learned why it was a good idea to duck into alcoves so you don't get surrounded. They learned why it was better to snipe one ranged mob at a time rather than stand where 3 ranged mobs could shoot you all at once. One said she learned more from that experience than her entire (admittedly limited) time playing.

I really wouldn't change all that much. I can absolutely accept there are dungeons I can't solo. I can absolutely accept there are dungeons I can't solo + single hireling. That, IMO, is well and right. I have already accepted that I'll never see raids (we don't even fill a single group). I know that i will never have top gear, much less top gear that would let me solo raids.

I have made that decision because I've decided to be a primary soloer and part-time grouper. I've made my decision and that's pretty much all there is to it. It will be a very rare day that you see me griping about not being able to solo ___X___. It might happen. Everyone has an off day. But the above is my "real" feelings on the subject, no matter what a moment of irritation might goad me into saying.

[Rafal]

The answer is not terribly controversial. Many people can play the game for more hours than they can group. They may be able to play, but have RL obligations that force them to be afk a lot. While they want to group when they can, they would like to be productive for that period of time when they can play but not group. This is a perfect time to do boring things like farming a particular quest over and over for items. Thus, they like to be able to solo things like Tor or Xorian Cipher.

Exactly my thought. Very often I just can not make a commitment to join a group for a quest. Especially when they intend to wait forever for a healer. When I can I am joining groups when I am unsure I'd rather solo then bail mid quest.

[Elfvyra]

Just like sex, you will always reach your end result solo, with a group you might just end up worked up and ****ed off. ;)


Ummm, you have perfomance anxiety? It's ok, many men seem to have that problem.... ;)

[Hokiewa]

Whaat most of us don't want is the game being dumbed down so that the whole thing can be soloed.


Too late.....Though it should be pointed out that the "dumbing down" of the game also very likely saved it. It is what it is. DDO at inception had a bit of a learning curve, which at the time of paid subs was a great thing, it was an MMO that didn't require camping, massive travel, tedious boring collection quests. Lol, which one is missing from present day DDO? The one that would cost the most money. Now, there is a difficulty "balance" that must be maintained to maximize "store" profits.

Personally, I'd love to see the entire game deconstructed but we all know that isn't gonna happen. It's really a shame, because it's fairly likely we will never see DnD in this format again, assuming of course WoTC sticks with the 4.0 ruleset. Not Doom, but reality.

I digress....

[wolfy42]

I actually have never done a quest on casual.

I solo'd just fine before casual or dungeon scaleing was released. It's super easy to solo now if you want on normal.

Someone above said people can level up just doing casual mode on quests solo. I thought casual mode gave a fraction of the normal experience? Heck even soloing It takes me quite awhile before I start doing quests on normal ....which is the main reason I'm VIP..so I can start on hard mode.

I'm not sure what the % is of full quest exp you get for casual mode...but if it's even 50% that would mean 2x as many quests solo (not including the exp bonus for normal/hard/expert). It would probably be 3x as many quests....which seems crazy to me.

Maybe I'm wrong about the whole exp penalty for casual play?

[Antheal]

Sometimes there just isn't anyone else online who wants to do the same quest as you, when you want to do it.

Of if something happens and you have to leave the game halfway through a quest chain.

[wolfy42]

Sometimes there just isn't anyone else online who wants to do the same quest as you, when you want to do it.

Of if something happens and you have to leave the game halfway through a quest chain.

There are quests at all levels that you can solo....or you can go back and do an earlier quest you skipped while waiting for a party to fill up on the quest you want to do (also helps to have a nice guild).

If you can't find a party for your quest, make one...and run a solo quest while you wait.

[Drakos]

This game was designed so you could waste your time with other people, not alone. :rolleyes:

By all means you have the right to feel this way. I happen to feel it was designed to play and have fun weather it be with a group of people, or just some easy gooing exploring the doungeons alone. Both are valid means to enjoy yourself, and both are supported by the game design. I'm sure the developers would agree that if you are having fun, and they are getting their cash, it is a win/win party or solo.

Yes I can play console games or stand alone CRPG's but the nice thing here is that I can group when I feel like it and solo when I don't without the need for multiple games. Don't get me wrong I also like to play CRPG's like NWN and Baulders Gate, but with DDO I get a wider range of play options.

[Khelden]

Easy... As many have said, sometimes we just can't find a group to run with. Also, many people are extremely dumb... They are slow or waste XP by dying. Also, more often than not, those who wish to be able to solo everything are still grinding their way to lvl 20.

[SquelchHU]

What people complain about is things that arbitrarily force them to group. Like the levers thing in Tor. And if you've seen some of the people that show up for Tor groups you will completely understand the desire to solo it. Hint: Posting 'Gianthold Tor' in your LFM attracts +999% idiot aggro. Seriously, you would have better luck PUGing the BLACK ABBOT than Gianthold Tor. Simply because anyone that is Abbot flagged at least has half a clue, whereas Tor brings out every level 20 sorc with 120 HP on the server that wants to join your max level 15 group and die in 10 seconds anyways, that can't follow instructions, and is overall worse than an empty spot in every way except that you arbitrarily need another warm body to pull a lever. (and btw, Xorian isn't a valid argument since you can do that with trip, charm, petrify...)

Now, if someone is complaining that they cannot solo because the quest is too difficult for them, then yes they have no valid complaint and should simply improve their playing abilities so that they can. When someone easily could do something were it not for this arbitrary measure...