Finesse build, with high INT?

[Zacaretas]

I'm debating if I should make a drow rogue with a high INT. The reason for the high intelligence is solely for the assassinate DC. I believe I could get the DC to 40 via:

DC 10
20 Rogue levels
+10 INT modifier (30 intelligence)

Would this be worth it?

The low CON and STR at level 20 doesn't sit well with me, but can sneak attack damage compensate for the lack of STR? Is a 40 DC on assassinate even needed at end-game (excluding epic difficulty)? What kind of DC would you aim for?

The other option I was thinking is to bring INT down to 16 and raise CON to 14, then putting 4 level up points into STR, granting me: 26 STR, 22 CON, and 24 INT (which would give me a 37 DC to assassinate). I believe this would be a more balanced build, but wouldn't mind going with the former. What do you think?



STR 14 22 (+6 item, +2 tome)
DEX 16 30 (+6 item, +2 tome, +1 level +5 enhancements)
CON 12 20 (+6 item, +2 tome)
INT 18 30 (+6 item, +2 tome, +4 levels)
WIS 8 10 ( +2 tome)
CHA 10 18 (+6 item, +2 tome)

__________________________________________________
Feats
__________________________________________________

1 Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Weapon Finesse
6 Toughness
9 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
12 Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
15 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18 Power Attack

[Wurmwood]

You gonna be using those INT based kukri's from the sentinels questline?

[Daehawk]

You gonna be using those INT based kukri's from the sentinels questline?

**** you beat me to it, yeah I was going to ask if they had seen and was planning on using them with this build.

But yeah, if you go with the higher Int verison than Str I'd say look into the Kukri's from Sentinel. If you go with the str verison you could go with the what looks like with your Imp Crit Pierce the Rapiers.

It might be an interesting build.

[Zacaretas]

Oh, my! I just had a look at that kurki: *DROOL*. If I could get my hands on a pair of those, then I would most definitely keep the high INT.

Man oh man. This makes the decision much harder.

(:

[bunitchu]

Oh, my! I just had a look at that kurki: *DROOL*. If I could get my hands on a pair of those, then I would most definitely keep the high INT.

Man oh man. This makes the decision much harder.

(:

i would advise you to first do it with average int, high dex, rest you decide, because even though those kukris are awessome, problem lies on :"if you have them".

I have an rogue which will become assassin on next level, and even though i may b planning too far away, i will only follow the path of very high int and dex and screw the rest IF i get to obtain those kukris on the first 2 attempts(first lvling to 20 then 1st TR), then on the last rebirth i will definetelly use them and amuse myself with the awessome assassinate dc and the kukris bonus, but till then, i better not rely on items, and advise you the same till you get ur hands on those 2 beauties

[KillEveryone]

The way I understand the assissin pre is you only need a high INT for the Tier II. Tier III doesn't require a high INT. Every weapon becomes a vorpal with Tier III.

Edit...Ok, I understand a bit more. For it to be an insta kill the attack needs to be considered a sneak attack. I have been told that you don't need a really high INT for that but that is what I've been told and I haven't expierenced it yet.

[Goldeneye]

My advice: make a STR or DEX based build, with moderate INT.
Once you get the Epic Kukris (if you do) you can LR into a max-INT build.

That way you won't be completely useless.

[Gnorbert]

This would also give you epic trap skills. Nice synergy, it's just too bad that it all hinges around one specific weapon.

[Angar]

Personally, I think any assassin build should have at least a base 14 int, if not 16. The difference from Str 12 to str 16 is 2 whole points of damage.. irrelevant in my opinion.

Dex, Con, Int, and a little Str. I find that having ~400 hp and being able to reliably assassinate orthons is pretty much all that is necessary for a rogue. Try as hard as you can, you will not do squat for dps when not sneak attacking, so there is no sense in sacrificing a key stat to try to get there. Int is good for 3 things - DC on assassinate skill, skill points (yes, having good spot, search, disarm, unlock, tumble, jump, bluff, hide, move silently, and of course UMD is important for a rogue), and trap skills. Str is good for a little front end dps, of which you will do very little, even if you pour points into it.

Learn how to use bluff too. It isn't that you can get a single sneak attack in at the cost of a long skill use, that isn't what bluff is for. It's so you can pull single mobs from a group, or re-assassinate a missed attempt. With the high int, high dex, and decent con, along with the right set of weapons, you can be an incredibly effective player in almost any group.

[Goldeneye]

Angor: I disagree.
Rogues that believe that their damage relies on SA, give rogues a bad name. There is NO REASON that rogues can't do good damage while not getting Sneak Attack.

Here is a sample of my Halfling Rogue/Ranger. This screenshot is without: madstone, tod rings, full bard buffs...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s36/Faction3/krythen_dps.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s36/Faction3/krythencrits.jpg
Don't sacrifice base damage.

98% of this game is JUST beating on monsters.

[Goldeneye]

For the most part: running Amrath and end-game quests,
The party won't wait for you to assassinate things.


You can either rely on Assassinate, sneaking around, and get a kill every few seconds, while doing negligible DPS.
Or you can focus on Assassin III, get decent STR, radiance rapiers, get get a kill on Every time you roll a 20, and maintain some of the highest DPS in the game.


It's a huge difference in practicality of rogue.

I respect the OP's will for a Assassinate Build.... and he can do whatever he wants, but the power of a high-damage assassinate rogue is in Killing.

Radiance rogues, getting full sneak attacks can potentially be CRAZY DPS.... add in vorpaling on every 20 makes good rogues instant kill-count leaders.

[Deathseeker]

For the most part: running Amrath and end-game quests,
The party won't wait for you to assassinate things.


You can either rely on Assassinate, sneaking around, and get a kill every few seconds, while doing negligible DPS.
Or you can focus on Assassin III, get decent STR, radiance rapiers, get get a kill on Every time you roll a 20, and maintain some of the highest DPS in the game.

It's a huge difference in practicality of rogue.

I respect the OP's will for a Assassinate Build.... and he can do whatever he wants, but the power of a high-damage assassinate rogue is in Killing.

Radiance rogues, getting full sneak attacks can potentially be CRAZY DPS.... add in vorpaling on every 20 makes good rogues instant kill-count leaders.

I agree with this, and it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can still do the sneaky/assassinate thing when the opportunity presents itself (small pugs, solo'ing, etc). Just dont build around that one task. It only comes up sometimes. But you can still enjoy doing it, and you don't have to sell out everything to raise your INT for the DC to be effective.

Don't pigeonhole yourself...pump your int a bit if you want to go that route, but just by a few points. Enjoy both playstyles and build so you can do either productively.

[Cyr]

A) The kukri's do not outdps other top end weapons. Do a search for an analysis of this that A_D did a while back in one of the loot threads.

B) Assassinate does nothing for you in epic content, which is the main end game content at this time.

C) Rogues can do incredible dps. However, if your main plan is to gimp str/dex for intelligence you are going to have a rather low to hit (which does matter on epic). Your base damage is also going to be lower then it would be otherwise which does matter.

D) Traps have been readjusted in epic. They are now able to be disarmed and found by a wide variety of rogue builds.

E) The # of skills that need to be capped out on a rogue is very very low. Those extra skill points actually do not do as much for you as you might think. Lot's of new players do not realize that jump you only need a ten total modifier on before a jump spell (which there is a clickie of) to gain it's maximum benefit.

[Goldeneye]

Deathseeker is right.
It isn't one or the other, it's about finding a balance.
That's what makes the great rogue.

Cyr:
A.) Correct. Considering the amount of effort necessary to make those kukris, they are relatively low DPS.

B.) Correct. Assassinate is useless in Epic. It's all about the DPS.

C.) The key is in a balance. You can go finesse, but make sure you still have decent STR. There is not much more de-moralizing when you're fighting Sneak - attack immune monsters, and doing 10-20 damage / hit, while everyone else is doing 50-100

D.) Traps are now manageable. Rogues w/ 8 INT can get them w/ proper gear and boosts.

E.) Rogues get PLENTY OF SKILL POINTS. On my rogue, I maxed all the skills I believe to be essential w/ 8 INT (and only 13 levels of rogue)

For you:
Bluff (Cha)
Diplomacy (Cha)
Disable Device (Int)
Haggle (Cha)
Hide (Dex)
Listen (Wis)
Move Silently (Dex)
Open Lock (Dex)
Search (Int)
Spot (Wis)
Use Magic Device (Cha)
11 Skills.
8 Per level + 3 INT Mod (16 INT)
= Max all the skills you could possibly care about.


Side note:
Jump: Max = 40 something-ish
30 Jump Spell
4 GH
+STR Mod = near max
+ head of good fortune
+ skill boost
= never need any points into JUMP.

Or:
30 Jump Spell (enhancement)
15 Item (competence)
.done.
Don't invest in jump.