Want to specialise in Enchantment...

[Antheal]

I want to make a Crowd Control character that doesn't deal direct damage, but someone who can debilitate mobs so the party can kill while taking minimal damage themselves.

I'm not sure whether to be a Bard or a Sorcerer, or a Human or a Drow.

Anyone have any suggestions as to which would be best, and why?

[tanzer]

I for one simply would not suggest doing this.. you will have 0 solo-ability and with pugs becoming more and more difficult to find between levels 8 and 16.. you will more than likely end up dead in the water..

But. i digress.. if you were to go for this i would say a drow bard.. fascinate and dancing balls eventually.. not much else in that bag.. a sorc would get holds. but at high level <18+ and epic content> nobody with a brain cell will let you tag along... 99% of crowd control becomes useless.. if you cant max empower crit firewalls and throw out otto's irresistible dance.. well. good luck to you.. this isnt a rant or flame just plain facts, forgive me if these facts bother you.

[Antheal]

Otto's spells ARE enchantment spells. ;)

With Spell Focus: Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell and the 3 Improved Spell Penetration enhancements, all my enchantments should have a good chance of hitting the monsters and working, unless they're a boss with immunities, right?

[Shishizaru]

Otto's spells ARE enchantment spells. ;)

With Spell Focus: Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell and the 3 Improved Spell Penetration enhancements, all my enchantments should have a good chance of hitting the monsters and working, unless they're a boss with immunities, right?

If you are striving for the highest possible DC's (on spells), I believe Wizard is the best bet (with capstone). Other advantages include spell swapping (can actually deal damage should you need/want to) and extra feats compared to Bard/Sorc. Otherwise, Fascinate on a (well build) bard should often be 95% effective (i.e. save only on a 20), albeit with a bit of a wind-up.

Note that only two Feats you have listed will help you with your spell DC's. The Spell Penetration doesn't make your spell's harder to resist, just makes them get through SR more often. But you'll definitely want the Spell Pen at the very least (since they don't even have to roll for a save if you fail to penetrate SR).

[Antheal]

I believe Wizard is the best bet (with capstone).

I did wonder about that, but on the compendium it says the Wizard level 20 enhancement gives you +2 to casting stat, and improved metamagic costs.

However the Bard level 20 enhancement gives you +2 to casting stat, AND "+2 to Spell Penetration checks and the DC's of your Enchantment spells" which makes it sound even better than what the Wizard gets.

The Sorcerer one only improves damage of damage-dealing spells.

This alone has convinced me to play as a Bard (if I'd looked this up earlier, I'd not needed to make this thread).

[Shishizaru]

I did wonder about that, but on the compendium it says the Wizard level 20 enhancement gives you +2 to casting stat, and improved metamagic costs.

However the Bard level 20 enhancement gives you +2 to casting stat, AND "+2 to Spell Penetration checks and the DC's of your Enchantment spells" which makes it sound even better than what the Wizard gets.

The Sorcerer one only improves damage of damage-dealing spells.

This alone has convinced me to play as a Bard (if I'd looked this up earlier, I'd not needed to make this thread).

Bard might have the advantage on Enchantment spells (up to level 6 spells), I'm not really sure. However, I did forgot to mention how the DC for spells work:

10 + Spell Level + Casting Stat Modifier + Items + Feats = DC

The critical component here is Spell Level. A Wizard/Sorcerer can get level 7-9 spells. A Bard's highest is level 6. This is just due to the nature of the classes themselves. Moreover, I do not believe Bards get Mass Hold Person/Monster, so you might consider Wiz/Sorc for that as well (they are 7 and 8 respectively, I think).

At any rate, a CC Bard is probably viable. As long as you max out your songs and provide buffs, I don't think anyone will care too much about what you do otherwise. :P

[Nezichiend]

I for one simply would not suggest doing this.. you will have 0 solo-ability and with pugs becoming more and more difficult to find between levels 8 and 16.. you will more than likely end up dead in the water..

But. i digress.. if you were to go for this i would say a drow bard.. fascinate and dancing balls eventually.. not much else in that bag.. a sorc would get holds. but at high level <18+ and epic content> nobody with a brain cell will let you tag along... 99% of crowd control becomes useless.. if you cant max empower crit firewalls and throw out otto's irresistible dance.. well. good luck to you.. this isnt a rant or flame just plain facts, forgive me if these facts bother you.

CC is very important in epic quests. Hold monster mass destroys epic von 1. Fts orthons in ToD. There are plenty places where CC is needed. I wouldn't specialize your character to the degree where you can do nothing else BUT CC. I would go pure WF wizard (not drow, you lose only 1 dc and gain so much more). Pick up some spell penetration for sure and some fire/cold enhancements.

[tanzer]

otto's irresistible only has a spell resistance check.. no DC to save against the effect.. otto's dancing ball in end game is pretty much useless.. its save is FAR too low.. like i said.. at lvl 17. my banish has a 46 will save. while dancing ball only has a 29..and stuff saves on banish all the time..

my guess would be that if you go through with CC only.. u will learn how quickly you can change your mind at higher level..

[Shishizaru]

otto's irresistible only has a spell resistance check.. no DC to save against the effect.. otto's dancing ball in end game is pretty much useless.. its save is FAR too low.. like i said.. at lvl 17. my banish has a 46 will save. while dancing ball only has a 29..and stuff saves on banish all the time..

my guess would be that if you go through with CC only.. u will learn how quickly you can change your mind at higher level..

Doesn't Banishment work off a non-standard DC formula? Not that my question has anything to do with CC...

[Antheal]

10 + Spell Level + Casting Stat Modifier + Items + Feats = DC

The critical component here is Spell Level. A Wizard/Sorcerer can get level 7-9 spells. A Bard's highest is level 6. This is just due to the nature of the classes themselves. Moreover, I do not believe Bards get Mass Hold Person/Monster, so you might consider Wiz/Sorc for that as well (they are 7 and 8 respectively, I think).

>.< Looks like yet another reroll then.