Request For Build Feedback: DC Focused

[sfogarty]

I really like DC based spells. Finger of death amuses me greatly. So I came up with this build. I have a lot of fire enhancements, cause, fire good, but mostly I'm massively focused on spell penetration. Feedback would be loved, especially on Lineage of Elements/Deadly Elements: I've heard that these stack with Lore items, and that they do not. Clarification would be loved!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 194
Spell Points: 1697
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 9 9
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 19 26
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 10

Feat/Enhancement
Modified Skills
Skills (Level 20)
Balance 13.5
Concentration 25
Diplomacy 11.5
Jump 10.5
Search 10
Spot 12.5
Swim 10.5
Use Magic Device 11.5

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Enlarge Spell
Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering III
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Enlarge I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Enlarge II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Enlarge III
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II

[Oran_Lathor]

Couple things:

1) Spell penetration overcomes spell resistance. It has nothing to do with DCs. You need to fit in *spell focus* feats if you want a (really) good dc.

2) You are a dc-focused build, yet you didn't start with max intelligence. /boggle

3) You are a dc-focused build, yet you didn't take wizard's intelligence III.

4) you are a wizard and you didn't take the capstone!!!!

to sum up.... this is not even close to a dc-focussed build.

[sfogarty]

Couple things:

1) Spell penetration overcomes spell resistance. It has nothing to do with DCs. You need to fit in *spell focus* feats if you want a (really) good dc.

2) You are a dc-focused build, yet you didn't start with max intelligence. /boggle

3) You are a dc-focused build, yet you didn't take wizard's intelligence III.

4) you are a wizard and you didn't take the capstone!!!!

to sum up.... this is not even close to a dc-focussed build.

I completely misunderstood spell pen!!!! Thank you, this changes everything. Is spell pen a particularly necessary thing?

[Oran_Lathor]

Hey, np. Also, I apologize if my first response sounded a bit snarky. I was operating on very little sleep.

Spell pen. is pretty important as well since a lot of high end monster have spell resistance (ie, all devils and demons). Damage spells (wall of fire, chain lightning etc) are not subject to spell resistance, but effect spells (hold monster, finger of death etc) are.

So, on a dc-focussed caster you want as much spell pen as you can get as well.

[sfogarty]

Hey, np. Also, I apologize if my first response sounded a bit snarky. I was operating on very little sleep.

Spell pen. is pretty important as well since a lot of high end monster have spell resistance (ie, all devils and demons). Damage spells (wall of fire, chain lightning etc) are not subject to spell resistance, but effect spells (hold monster, finger of death etc) are.

So, on a dc-focussed caster you want as much spell pen as you can get as well.

Oh no, thank you for your help. Now something has to give. For enhancements, I can trade Improved Enlarge and the top level of Improved Empower for Spell Pen III. Other options:
* Elemental Manipulation: I do still need to be able to do damage the old-fashioned way. I could trade Manipulation IV for Deadly Lineage II and III.
* Energy of the Scholar (which probably provides more SP than Imp. Enlarged would save).

In feats, I'm not sure what should give. I am currently taking:
Toughness x2, Mental Toughness x2, Necro Focus, Enchant Focus, Insightful Reflexes, and the 5 Meta's. (Extend, Enlarge, Empower, Heighten, Maximize)

I would like to throw in Spell Pen, and maybe even Greater Necro Focus, but...

For reference, my current enhancements:
[drow] - Racial Toughness (1)
[wizard] - Elemental Manipulation I (1)
[wizard] - Elemental Manipulation II (2)
[wizard] - Elemental Manipulation III (3)
[wizard] - Elemental Manipulation IV (4)
[wizard] - Energy of the Scholar I (1)
[wizard] - Energy of the Scholar II (2)
[wizard] - Energy of the Scholar III (3)
[wizard] - Energy of the Scholar IV (4)
[wizard] - Improved Empowering I (2)
[wizard] - Improved Empowering II (4)
[wizard] - Improved Enlarge I (2)
[wizard] - Improved Heightening I (4)
[wizard] - Improved Heightening II (6)
[wizard] - Improved Maximizing I (2)
[wizard] - Improved Maximizing II (4)
[wizard] - Improved Maximizing III (6)
[wizard] - Improved Spell Penetration I (2)
[wizard] - Improved Spell Penetration II (4)
[wizard] - Improved Spell Penetration III (6)
[wizard] - Intelligence I (2)
[wizard] - Intelligence II (4)
[wizard] - Intelligence III (6)
[wizard] - Lineage of Deadly Elements I (1)
[wizard] - Lineage of Elements I (1)
[wizard] - Subtle Spellcasting I (1)

And, of course, wizard cap.

[Oran_Lathor]

There's simply no way to take everything that you'd like, so as you say--something has to give. This is why builds differ.

I suggest at least dropping one of the two toughness feats and picking up a spell pen.

You could also consider dropping enlarge spell for one of the other feats you want. Situationally it's very useful, but not very often: spell pen or a greater focus *may* serve you better.

[sfogarty]

There's simply no way to take everything that you'd like, so as you say--something has to give. This is why builds differ.

I suggest at least dropping one of the two toughness feats and picking up a spell pen.

You could also consider dropping enlarge spell for one of the other feats you want. Situationally it's very useful, but not very often: spell pen or a greater focus *may* serve you better.

I don't think I'll be viable for end-game raids without at least one toughness, but I think I will drop 1 for spell pen. It seems like enlarge and Wail of the Banshee make a great combination, but I'll definitely keep my eye on how often I'm using it to see. Thanks for the advice!

Any suggestions on if I should to pick up more Lineage of (Deadly) Elements? At the expensive of Manipulation IV, or the Metamagic feats perhaps?

[oweieie]

Spell pen is necessary, a lot of later game things will have a spell resistance of 29-31 for explorer area/normal, higher on elite and things like drow or clerics on elite can have 35+ spell resistance.

Enlarge is nice, but rarely used, I'd drop the enhancement on it and the 6 point enhancement on maximize. Subtle Spellcasting is worthless, and at higher level when you want to exploit geometry or the mob's weak AI you actually want as much aggro as possible so the melee can beat on the mobs.

[sfogarty]

Spell pen is necessary, a lot of later game things will have a spell resistance of 29-31 for explorer area/normal, higher on elite and things like drow or clerics on elite can have 35+ spell resistance.

Enlarge is nice, but rarely used, I'd drop the enhancement on it and the 6 point enhancement on maximize. Subtle Spellcasting is worthless, and at higher level when you want to exploit geometry or the mob's weak AI you actually want as much aggro as possible so the melee can beat on the mobs.

Thank you both so much! I've fished around with enhancements, and managed to take Lineage Deadly Elements to 3 and Lineage Elements to 2 (following the above). Unfortunately, due to progression I can't spend the last 2 points on Racial Toughness II. I need to take Elven Dexterity or something.

Perhaps if I end up really needing spell pen at the end-game, and I'm really loving Enlarge, I'll trade Imp. Mental Toughness for Imp. Spell Pen. 105 sp is nice, but having my spells hit home is nicer. I think this is really a decision to be made down the road, though. For reference:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 172
Spell Points: 1815
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 12 13
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 20 30
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 10

Modified Skills
Skills (Level 20)
Balance 12.5
Concentration 25
Diplomacy 11.5
Haggle 8.5
Jump 10.5
Spot 12.5
Swim 10.5
Use Magic Device 11.5

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Enlarge Spell
Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III

[oweieie]

Spell pen is necessary, a lot of later game things will have a spell resistance of 29-31 for explorer area/normal, higher on elite and things like drow or clerics on elite can have 35+ spell resistance.

Enlarge is nice, but rarely used, I'd drop the enhancement on it and the 6 point enhancement on maximize. Subtle Spellcasting is worthless, and at higher level when you want to exploit geometry or the mob's weak AI you actually want as much aggro as possible so the melee can beat on the mobs.

I had a spell pen roll of 34 fail on a mind flayer in a hard hound run yesterday. Level 20 + TR bonus + spell pen item + 2x spell pen feat + 3x spell pen enhancement wasn't enough, and I get spell pen fails in epic VoN 3 as well. Generally a +29 spell pen is enough, but any lower and you're going to have problems in some situations.