Greensteel and dragontouched effects

[sfogarty]

I am trying to plan my greensteel and dragontouched effects, and could use advice: specifically on the first two levels of my dragontouched armor, and what to get on top of HP for the greensteel cloak.

I am a Halfling Dex-based rogue, assassin, healing dragonmarks, last two levels will be fighter for feats and hp. I am planning on a greensteel cloak. I will clearly get +45 hit points on it. I already have Minos' helm.

(1) First inclination for my dragontouched armor is to go for +5 resistance saves, +5 deflection AC, and Smiting or Tharne's Wrath. However, this leaves up the question of what to do on my greensteel cloak: +6 wisdom? smoke screen?
(2) Another option is to go for a +6 stat on my armor instead of AC, and then take the +5 deflection AC on the cloak. This opens up my helm slot if I get something better than Minos'.
(3) A third option is to go for greater false life and a +6 stat on the armor, and +3 deflection ac, +3 resistance saves on the cloak. I don't like this, as it makes the cloak too easily obsolete.
Suggestions are welcome! Details on everything I'm considering are below.

On the armor, I could get one from each of the following lines:
Greater False Life, +5 Resistance Saves, +3 Int Skills, Deathblock
Stat +6, +5 Deflection AC, Spell Resistance 22
Tharne's Wrath (so I don't have to wear Tharne's Bracers), +3 Dodge AC, +4 Insight AC, Radiance Guard, Smiting

Possible configurations for the greensteel, on top of +45 hp, are one of
+5 Deflection AC, Heavy Fort (redundant with Minos' Helm)
+3 Deflection AC, +3 Resistance Saves, +3 dex skills, +3 str skills
+6 Wisdom, +6 str skills
Radiance Guard, +6 dex skills
Smoke Screen, +6 dex skills
Slay Living Guard, +6 str skills


As a random note, I am also considering getting a second set of dragontouched armor to try and get +3 int skills on, just for those hard to pick traps. Much cheaper than a second greensteel item with +6 int skills (what a waste!)

[sephiroth1084]

What is your AC currently? Are you working toward AC gear as well (Chattering Ring, Shroud weapon with +4 Insight AC on it, Icy Raiments, +8 AC bracers, etc...)? Do you have Combat Expertise?

If you're standing at around a 40 AC, I'd just skip the +5 protection. If you're standing at around the mid-50s, I'd consider it, but it won't be super useful as you continue further into endgame content.

On my rogue I went with a Radiance II cloak for my +45 HP item. It's nice, but not fantastic that I can tell, but hard to differentiate between monsters blinded with the cloak, and monsters blinded with the Radiance II rapier.

I like the +5 Resists, +6 stat or +1 exceptional stat, Tharne's Wrath set-up for DT armor on a rogue (though I only have the first tier of that locked in...****ing Tempest and Sovereign runes!).

By the way, you mention taking fighter as your last 2 levels...may I recommend 2 things? First, take the fighter levels a little sooner so you have at least one rogue level after to make up the skill point loss a bit. Second, consider taking just one fighter level. The second level gives you a bonus feat and +1 Str possibly, but you lose +1d6 SA and a Rogue specialty feat. I guess it comes down to which feat is more important to you.

I went 19/1 Rog/Ftr as well, taking fighter at 19 for the feat (PA) and HP from 1 Toughness enhancement and +4 from a bigger HD.

[sfogarty]

What is your AC currently? Are you working toward AC gear as well (Chattering Ring, Shroud weapon with +4 Insight AC on it, Icy Raiments, +8 AC bracers, etc...)? Do you have Combat Expertise?

If you're standing at around a 40 AC, I'd just skip the +5 protection. If you're standing at around the mid-50s, I'd consider it, but it won't be super useful as you continue further into endgame content.

I like the +5 Resists, +6 stat or +1 exceptional stat, Tharne's Wrath set-up for DT armor on a rogue (though I only have the first tier of that locked in...****ing Tempest and Sovereign runes!).

By the way, you mention taking fighter as your last 2 levels...may I recommend 2 things? First, take the fighter levels a little sooner so you have at least one rogue level after to make up the skill point loss a bit. Second, consider taking just one fighter level. The second level gives you a bonus feat and +1 Str possibly, but you lose +1d6 SA and a Rogue specialty feat. I guess it comes down to which feat is more important to you.

I went 19/1 Rog/Ftr as well, taking fighter at 19 for the feat (PA) and HP from 1 Toughness enhancement and +4 from a bigger HD.

My AC is not even at 40 yet. I'm still 17. And I odn't mind skipping the +5 protection on the cloak, but what do I put in its place? +6 wis?

That's a good idea with the only 1 fighter level. However, that does leave me with only improved two-weapon fighting, not greater two-weapon fighting.

[sephiroth1084]

My AC is not even at 40 yet. I'm still 17. And I odn't mind skipping the +5 protection on the cloak, but what do I put in its place? +6 wis?

That's a good idea with the only 1 fighter level. However, that does leave me with only improved two-weapon fighting, not greater two-weapon fighting.
What feats do you have?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Smiting is pretty good idea for a rogue as constructs are immune to sneak attack unless u get the enhancements for it......never thought of that.

I think option two is nice, tho the Minos is great, it is nice to be able to do a temporary swap once in a while on the hemet spot.....and if u have a MINII item made, u would only be losing the 20 HP's not the heavy fort.

My vote is for option two.

Nix on the deathblock IMO, u should really make room to keep your SF Necklace on all the time unless ur a WF'ed, and that already has deathblock at tier two upgrade.

Just noticed the comment about your AC, don't bother, unless u planned for a decent AC, and I mean 60 self buffed at least, it's not going to help much end game....put more effort into ur DPS.

[vVAnjilaVv]

My AC is not even at 40 yet. I'm still 17. And I odn't mind skipping the +5 protection on the cloak, but what do I put in its place? +6 wis?

That's a good idea with the only 1 fighter level. However, that does leave me with only improved two-weapon fighting, not greater two-weapon fighting.

OUCH...ur definately going to want up to GTWF I would think.

[sephiroth1084]

Smiting is pretty good idea for a rogue as constructs are immune to sneak attack unless u get the enhancements for it......never thought of that.

I think option two is nice, tho the Minos is great, it is nice to be able to do a temporary swap once in a while on the hemet spot.....and if u have a MINII item made, u would only be losing the 20 HP's not the heavy fort.

My vote is for option two.

Nix on the deathblock IMO, u should really make room to keep your SF Necklace on all the time unless ur a WF'ed, and that already has deathblock at tier two upgrade.

Just noticed the comment about your AC, don't bother, unless u planned for a decent AC, and I mean 60 self buffed at least, it's not going to help much end game....put more effort into ur DPS.
Mostly agree (Silver Flame necklace is valuable enough that I wouldn't bother with Deathblock on DT, Smiting could be useful), but I'd try to stick my greensteel somewhere other than the helmet spot so you can keep the 20 HP. Every little bit counts, especially if you are just skimming the low end of meaningful HP, which most rogues are.

And to be clear for the OP, my question about what feats you currently have was meant to be somewhat taken aback, since I have no clue what would be interfering with getting GTWF.

On my 1-fighter splashed rogue I have:
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Weapon Finesse, Toughness, SF: UMD, IC: Piercing and Power Attack. What else are you taking?

[sfogarty]

And to be clear for the OP, my question about what feats you currently have was meant to be somewhat taken aback, since I have no clue what would be interfering with getting GTWF.

On my 1-fighter splashed rogue I have:
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Weapon Finesse, Toughness, SF: UMD, IC: Piercing and Power Attack. What else are you taking?

I have healing dragonmarks. 4 250 point heals a rest are really useful. Sometimes just a bit nice, sometimes save the quest (although probably not a raid).
Feats are: TWF, Finesse, Toughness, IC: Piercing, Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks, baring 2 fighter levels.
2 fighter levels would be ITWF, GTWF

[sephiroth1084]

I have healing dragonmarks. 4 250 point heals a rest are really useful. Sometimes just a bit nice, sometimes save the quest (although probably not a raid).
Feats are: TWF, Finesse, Toughness, IC: Piercing, Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks, baring 2 fighter levels.
2 fighter levels would be ITWF, GTWF

Okay, then yeah, I'd take the 2nd fighter level, although I don't see the dragonmarks being more useful than UMD for Heal scrolls.

[sfogarty]

Okay, then yeah, I'd take the 2nd fighter level, although I don't see the dragonmarks being more useful than UMD for Heal scrolls.

Which, sadly , means I don't get rogue 18 till 20, and I don't get to the fun vorpal effect of assassin 3.

I'm pretty sure dragonmarks are more useful than IMD for heal, since that takes 34 to even get a 50/50 shot, right? This would take:
23 skill
3 focus
2 cha (with a +6 item)
6 cha skills (greensteel, or 3 Dragontouched and 3 Delera's item)

and require me to swap 2-3 items in the middle of combat, and then cast the heal on average twice, for a 150 instead of 250 pt heal. Now, you can certainly argue that it isn't worth two feats, especially since of those can be a +1 skill (rogue) feat, and with a tome you can probably get failure down even more. But I think I am at least getting something for my two feats.

[sephiroth1084]

Not sure what your base Cha is (guessing a 6 on a dwarf?), but:
23 ranks
+4 GH
+1 Voice of the Master or Prayer (could be +2 with Head of Good Fortune or on an epic item)
+3 Skill Focus
+1 Skill Mastery (kind of worth taking once as it adds to so much, and after Improved Evasion and Crippling Strike there aren't really any other very useful rogue feats)
+3 Cartouche or, BUNNY HAT (no slot)
____
34 (75% chance of using Heal scrolls) w/o figuring in Cha at all
+2 Cha (6+6 item)
+1 Cha tome +2
____
37 (90% chance of using Heal scrolls)
more Cha, another Skill Mastery, the Titan gloves, Rogue Skill Boost (short-term) could all bring this up to 100%
[Edit] A Cha skills item or +3 skills on DT armor (tier I) would also get you to 100%

The upside to UMD vs. the Dragonmarks is that you can cast 100 or more Heals in a quest vs. 4, requires fewer feats, and has the secondary benefit of allowing you to use other wands and scrolls. My rogue is a veritable warehouse of scrolls and wands: Blur (10), Recitation, Resist Energy (11), Protection from Elements, GH, Mass SR, Restoration, Raise Dead, Resurrection, Shield (10), Trueseeing, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, Remove Blindness, Neutralize Poison, Fire Shield.

I can make up for lack of buffs from a sorc or FvS that doesn't have all the necessities, fill roles when shortmanning or soloing, can step back to heal in tight spots, bring up the healers that have died... The list goes on.

[sephiroth1084]

Which, sadly , means I don't get rogue 18 till 20, and I don't get to the fun vorpal effect of assassin 3.


That's a good point, and is why I took fighter at 19 on my rogue (Assassin III at 18, Rogue at 20 to shore up skills lost during fighter level).

[Gorkulon]

[QUOTE=vVAnjilaVv;2919344][COLOR="Cyan"]Smiting is pretty good idea for a rogue as constructs are immune to sneak attack unless u get the enhancements for it......never thought of that.

Smiting is ok but not excellent IMO if you are referring to the ability granted by the second mechanic prestige enhancement. In this case you get 3 smites and then you have to wait 90 seconds for each smite to return which by itself would be helpful. Problem is every time you smite you have to wait for a cooldown period just to use another smite. Plus almost everytime I have used this I seem to draw a massive amount of hate from the construct that I smited. Only way I would consider using this again is only if I waited until the contruct's hitpoint bar indicated to me that the smite would kill it or bring it very close to death. In my opinion this ability is just another thing thats is just not worth taking with a rogue for these stated reasons. Never used smiting weapons so I cant offer an opinion on those.

[sfogarty]

[QUOTE=vVAnjilaVv;2919344][COLOR="Cyan"]Smiting is pretty good idea for a rogue as constructs are immune to sneak attack unless u get the enhancements for it......never thought of that.

Smiting is ok but not excellent IMO if you are referring to the ability granted by the second mechanic prestige enhancement. In this case you get 3 smites and then you have to wait 90 seconds for each smite to return which by itself would be helpful. Problem is every time you smite you have to wait for a cooldown period just to use another smite. Plus almost everytime I have used this I seem to draw a massive amount of hate from the construct that I smited. Only way I would consider using this again is only if I waited until the contruct's hitpoint bar indicated to me that the smite would kill it or bring it very close to death. In my opinion this ability is just another thing thats is just not worth taking with a rogue for these stated reasons. Never used smiting weapons so I cant offer an opinion on those.

We are talking about the Dragontouched Armor sovereign effect, which I believe makes constructs save vs DC 30-ish or die on every critical hit. Same as smiting weapons.

Mechanic rogues really need a cookie. I would suggest faster search and disarm times.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Smiting weapons for normal setting quests is definately a winner if u have a nice crit range so they proc a lot.

If ur doing higher difficulties or fighting golem minibosses u'll probably want a smiter in one hand and a cursespewer/improved cursespewer in the other....as thier saves will go up quite a bit.

The nice thing about smiting weapons is they have a nice DC as compared to stuff like paralyzers which are quite low.

If u prefer to DPS golems simply carry adamantine/metalline bludgeoners and slashers. Don't bother with piercing tho, as STONE and IRON golems may only need admantine to bypass thier DR, however Flesh Golems need both Slash AND Adamantine and Clay Golems need both Bludgeon AND Adamantine.