Please redesign the quest end reward system

[Zaodan]

Aside from raid items and items in chests, we get loot from the NPC quest giver. I think it needs to be changed.

Right now, you are given a list of items and select 1 as your reward. This list of items can be either customized to your character's class or not, through the Options panel. However, the mechanic for this is flawed in either case. You get a list of armor (and shields), weapons, and other random items that either are or are not slightly biased towards your primary character class. This list is not well generated.

My suggestion is to change the list as follows:
- Generate a random item for every slot: 1 armor, robe, outfit or docent, 1 shield or light weapon, 1 weapon (any kind), 1 ring, 1 necklace, 1 helm, 1 trinket, 1 cloak, 1 footwear, 1 belt, 1 goggles, 1 bracers, 1 gloves, 1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.). Total: 14 choices

It doesn't have to be any more powerful loot that is already generated. But it ensures that the loot is diverse. No longer would we have to choose between the 4 suits of armor, 5 weapons, and a wand.

In the case of named end rewards (like Delera's, Threnal, Tangleroot), just work in the named items in the proper slot.

Again, I'm not asking for better loot, just changing the distribution to have more choices.

[coolpenguin410]

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, it's more diversed loot and that's a great thing, but also, you miss out on the chance to be presented with several choices of weapons.

Ultimately, though, I think it would be a step forward.

[Eladiun]

Also, some quest the end loot table seem to way too low. Picking up +1 stat items in quest that are above level 5 etc...

[Krag]

Also, some quest the end loot table seem to way too low. Picking up +1 stat items in quest that are above level 5 etc...

+2 weapons in epic quests...

[Zaodan]

Lets not de-rail. I understand that there are also problems with loot being appropriate level for quest. Make that into another thread, if you don't mind. This one is strictly about redesigning the choices for better variety.

[Eladiun]

Well, I think the two are intertwined if I'm getting 14 pieces of vendor trash that's really zero improvement.

[kaelis]

I like it. picking from 10 sets of armor and a major potion all the time gets boring, although my potion stocks do rise quickly.

[Zaodan]

Well, I think the two are intertwined if I'm getting 14 pieces of vendor trash that's really zero improvement.

Whether loot is trash or not is a much more subjective evaluation. That's why I didn't even bring it up, because I really didn't want the topic to be about "yet another player asking for better loot". I want it to be about variety.

[Eladiun]

At minimum fix the quests that only offer 4 options that are floating around out there...

[Mockduck]

Only issue I see is that weapons might need more than one slot. Who'd want to grind through a quest because you are looking for a specific property on a specific weapon and since only one weapon is offered per run, have to run it way more than you currently do. I'd personally like DDO to go the LOTRO route and have specified and static end rewards that are always an option rather than a "chance" for a good end reward to drop.

[Krag]

Whether loot is trash or not is a much more subjective evaluation. That's why I didn't even bring it up, because I really didn't want the topic to be about "yet another player asking for better loot". I want it to be about variety.

Wait, but wouldn't removing all extra armor/shield sets make endrewards better?

[Cylinwolf]

At minimum fix the quests that only offer 4 options that are floating around out there...

The amount of end rewards presented to you is based on the listed "length" of the quest.

Short only gives 4, Medium gives more, Long gives more, Very Long gives more. I can't remember the exact number.

[Belwaar]

I'd personally like DDO to go the LOTRO route and have specified and static end rewards that are always an option rather than a "chance" for a good end reward to drop.

Please do not do this. It takes away from the variety of items/weapons/armor that can be obtained. Don't get me wrong, most of the stuff I end up choosing has the highest base value, and I just go sell it to one of the vendors, but every once in a while I pull something cool either for that particular character or possibly for an alt.

Keep it the way it is. Having static rewards for every single quest will get old in a hurry.

/not signed.

[Eladiun]

The amount of end rewards presented to you is based on the listed "length" of the quest.

Short only gives 4, Medium gives more, Long gives more, Very Long gives more. I can't remember the exact number.


Ahhh, never really made that connection....thanks.

[kaelis]

Only issue I see is that weapons might need more than one slot. Who'd want to grind through a quest because you are looking for a specific property on a specific weapon and since only one weapon is offered per run, have to run it way more than you currently do. I'd personally like DDO to go the LOTRO route and have specified and static end rewards that are always an option rather than a "chance" for a good end reward to drop.

Add a third end reward option; by class; random; and thenvaried random (being his suggestion) where random would be the current non-class selected end reward system we have now.

[Deathseeker]

My suggestion is to change the list as follows:
- Generate a random item for every slot: 1 armor, robe, outfit or docent, 1 shield or light weapon, 1 weapon (any kind), 1 ring, 1 necklace, 1 helm, 1 trinket, 1 cloak, 1 footwear, 1 belt, 1 goggles, 1 bracers, 1 gloves, 1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.). Total: 14 choices

It doesn't have to be any more powerful loot that is already generated. But it ensures that the loot is diverse. No longer would we have to choose between the 4 suits of armor, 5 weapons, and a wand.

While I think the intention here is good, I have to completely disagree with the solution.

Many players at endgame have a very very very short list of items that could be randomly generated that would be of any use on the specific toon who is looking at the end rewards. In fact it's likely a very short list of anything useful on ANY alt they have. For me, Im looking at the list hoping for (in order of priority):

Some rare random item that might benefit one of my alts (ie +15 Intim ring or +8 armor bracers for example)
A "jackpot" type weapon (like portal beater, harry beater, or other very unique combo)
A +2 Tome
The highest value weapon I can Auction
A Major Pot
+1 Tome
The highest value weapon I can sell to a broker

So here's what I have an issue with...if it were changed in the way you described, I would likely have about the same chance of pulling one of the super rare items, so that's no big deal. But what would happen is a much larger percentage of the items would be clothing/jewelry instead of weapons. As 99% of it gets vendored, all this would be doing is dropping the return I get on vendoring the trash. Similarly, its harder to generate a combo on jewelry/clothing that has any resale on the AH than it is to generate a sellable weapon combo.

Having it heavily weighted toward more weapons at least gives me a better plat value on the trash.

Bottom line...having one item per equipment slot is not reflective of the demand on items, as in general weapons have a much much higher demand (in terms of resale value) than of the other items.

With all that being said, I do like your idea for low level quests. At that level, resale isnt so heavily the main outcome, so I think it applies more there. For new players I think your idea is solid, but for older players on higher level quests not so much.

[Borror0]

My suggestion is to change the list as follows:
- Generate a random item for every slot: 1 armor, robe, outfit or docent, 1 shield or light weapon, 1 weapon (any kind), 1 ring, 1 necklace, 1 helm, 1 trinket, 1 cloak, 1 footwear, 1 belt, 1 goggles, 1 bracers, 1 gloves, 1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.). Total: 14 choices
Too many choices. It would be overwhelming to most players. Most people islike reading and will avoid doing that as much as possible (which is why Twitter is so popular: only 140 characters to read, tops). It better to keep the number of options under six, to prevent that from happening:

1 weapon (any non-light)
1 off-hand (33% shield, 33% light weapon, 33% non-light one-handed weapon)
1 armor, outfit, docent or robe
1 clothing
1 jewelery
1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.)


I'd personally like DDO to go the LOTRO route and have specified and static end rewards that are always an option rather than a "chance" for a good end reward to drop.
Yes, it would be ideal for DDO designers to add two or three static rewards on top of the randomly generated ones. Not only does it decrease the randomness of rewards but it allows designers to handhold new players through content, ensuring that they are not too behind in their loot.

Korthos was a step in that direction, and I would expect more of it in the future.

[DoctorWhofan]

Please do not do this. It takes away from the variety of items/weapons/armor that can be obtained. Don't get me wrong, most of the stuff I end up choosing has the highest base value, and I just go sell it to one of the vendors, but every once in a while I pull something cool either for that particular character or possibly for an alt.

Keep it the way it is. Having static rewards for every single quest will get old in a hurry.

/not signed.

Been there, done that got the T-shirt.

agreed.

/not signed

[Bogenbroom]

1 weapon (any non-light)
1 off-hand (33% shield, 33% light weapon, 33% non-light one-handed weapon)
1 armor, outfit, docent or robe
1 clothing
1 jewelery
1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.)



I like this spread as a base a lot better. I think it is a good place to start. There are, obviously, variations that would need to be made for quests that increase/decrease the allotment, and possibly for named items.

In addition, something I've tossed out in the past, a mech for influencing the category of your returns. A way to increase the % of a specific subclass. Rings drop 35% instead of 25%. Blunt weapons drop 40% instead of 33%, etc. Tie it to Free Agent favor. Just a thought...

[Krag]

After level 10 good reward list would be:


8 weapons
1 jewelry
1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.)



Why bother including shields and armor to the list when they can't hold desirable effects? For the slim chance of getting mithral fullplate?

[toughguyjoe]

I can see this idea as having merit, but I think some of the ideas lower down on the thread are more to wh at should happen. You should get a chance at most types of loot, But doing something like Adding a trinket to every end reward would be ridiculous, as there are FAR fewer trinkets(none of them are randomly generated) than say, neckalces or gloves.

[Borror0]

Why bother including shields and armor to the list when they can't hold desirable effects? For the slim chance of getting mithral fullplate?
The fact that armors and shield are undesirable is a design flaw, and should be fixed. It would be counterproductive for Turbine to base a new change to the loot system on a current flaw instead of addressing the flaw. That is, unless they think the current situation is acceptable but that is unlikely.

[Anderei]

I totally agree the quest reward system should be redesigned (maybe for DDO2? :-) But I would take a different approach.

I know its a video game, but starting from the roleplaying perspective, how likely is it to have from a random NPC a ton of stuff to chose from? Okay maybe once in a while, he invites you in his/her house and say "take any 1 item as a sign for my gradiuate", but usually its "here have my second dagger I do not need anylonger".

Instead of randomly thrown loot, where it takes an eternity to get the combo you want I would change the whole game ot a crafting system, instead of waiting eons to get your holy of (greater) construct bane weapon by random, or having to buy it for millions in the AH, or suddendly get millions if you hit it random and have a portal beater already.. have a crafting system. I much more likely bring a smith 7 party of "timbuktu ore", 5 unobtainium gems and 5 brown hary spider legs, to upgrade my +5 weapon with construct bane, and another list of stuff to upgrade it with holy, and another list of stuff to actually get a +5 weapon by upgrading a +4 and so on, instead of having the world *filled* with millions of random weapons no smith in his right mind would actually build, and all of them piling up at bartenders.

So in a system I would prefer, a quest reward should have say 4 options:
* (possibly) A random (basic) item (Masterwork)
* (possibly) A random ingredient. (maybe tied a bit to the quest)
* (always) plain and simply direct gold.
* (possibly) A consumable, but in a approperiate amount to the gold, i.e.. more than you could buy from that gold, like 10-100 resist X potions, or something like that.

[ReaperAlexEU]

personally i'd like to see the return of the static loot from quests like delerahs, while keeping a set of randoms on offer for when you have the bits you need.

power gamers need to run the raids and epics over and over to kit their toons out, so bringing static loot back wont affect them

casual gamers on the other hand will benefit greatly from the return of static loot. it will help them kit their toons out in a half decent way with out needing to run quests over and over when they are on a limited time budget. it wont in any way give them an unfair handout compared to power gamers, as very few static rewards compete in power with raid or epic loot.

so brining back the full static reward lists and adding some random slots to the reward screen would help the casuals without affecting the power gamers. seems like a win win situation to me

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

I don't like the suggestion made by the OP. I would choose the current system over the one proposed.

I like having several of the same slot to choose from. It's not always the slot I want but oh well.

[jcTharin]

* (always) plain and simply direct gold.


Agreed. i see the little dinky stuff that the guy is offering as "payment" and i think "just pay me in gold!" i don't want your little +1/2 dagger of poking, i have a +895 hammer of kill-it-till-its-dead!

most of the time when i have to pick a reward i just pick the one with the biggest value and sell it. yet i can only get a fraction of what its "worth".

so you want to give me a neat little pointy stick that says it's worth two jabiljon pp Mr./Miss. farmer/widow/mayor/grand mucky muck of funky town. you know what, just give me the money

[Lorien_the_First_One]

99/100 times from GH on you want the weapon. This suggestion would make end rewards worse by lowering your weapon selection.

[Borror0]

99/100 times from GH on you want the weapon. This suggestion would make end rewards worse by lowering your weapon selection.
That would actually be a benefit, as it would reduce (slightly) the income of plat in the economy.

[Uska]

No thanks I agree with those saying that after awhile you wouldnt have anything to really choose I like getting a nice surprise every now and then and having to just pick vendor trash is part of the price I pay.

[Averla]

Im liking a variant of the original idea - something like:

For shorter quests:
2 slots of weapon choices
2 slots of armor choices
2 slots of jewelry or clothing or tomes
and then FTW: 1 slot of a cash choice (which scales to your haggle + diplomacy skill?)

For longer quests:
4 slots of weapon choices
4 slots of armor choices
4 slots of jewelry or clothing or tomes
and then FTW: 1 slot of a cash choice (which scales to your haggle + diplomacy skill?)


Key goals:
* give me choices by category
* give me more than one category
* and worse case, save me the trouble of a vender run

[MrkGrismer]

The only thing I would like to see changed is for them to put in a check to see if each randomly generated item is the same as one already in the list, and if so to re-roll it. All v-trash is bad enough without adding insult to it by having TWO identical +2 Full Plate items show up. :( I think I might have seen three once, but I'm not sure.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Aside from raid items and items in chests, we get loot from the NPC quest giver. I think it needs to be changed.

Right now, you are given a list of items and select 1 as your reward. This list of items can be either customized to your character's class or not, through the Options panel. However, the mechanic for this is flawed in either case. You get a list of armor (and shields), weapons, and other random items that either are or are not slightly biased towards your primary character class. This list is not well generated.

My suggestion is to change the list as follows:
- Generate a random item for every slot: 1 armor, robe, outfit or docent, 1 shield or light weapon, 1 weapon (any kind), 1 ring, 1 necklace, 1 helm, 1 trinket, 1 cloak, 1 footwear, 1 belt, 1 goggles, 1 bracers, 1 gloves, 1 misc (wands, tomes, etc.). Total: 14 choices

It doesn't have to be any more powerful loot that is already generated. But it ensures that the loot is diverse. No longer would we have to choose between the 4 suits of armor, 5 weapons, and a wand.

In the case of named end rewards (like Delera's, Threnal, Tangleroot), just work in the named items in the proper slot.

Again, I'm not asking for better loot, just changing the distribution to have more choices.

Great...so now we will get an end reward list of 14 different item types that can still all be useless or vendor trash....how does this "fix" anything.

Personally I think the end reward lists are fine......what they need to fix is the fact that you do a 6th level quest and the whole end reward list is level 1-4 gear.

now that is flawed....make every item at least level 5-6......either that or let us take the whole list :D