Greensteel Suggestion: Read Please!

[Celestialbeast]

So having come across WAY too many Small and Medium ingreds on my hunt for all the larges I need a wonderful thought occurred to me. And this would be very easy! VERY very Easy! It would be just like the runes from Reavers as in you would take 3 small ingreds and make 1 medium of that type, 3 mediums into 1 large of that type. Now to prevent confusion (And people taking advantage of the system) you would have to complete as the only way to do this "Crunching" of Ingreds Would be at the part 5 altar.

This would lower inflation on Larges (I would hope) and make it slightly easier to obtain the massive amounts of rare ingreds that some people need.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Failedlegend]

/Signed

Also remove the horrendous AH tax that will bring prices down too

[sirgog]

/Signed

Also remove the horrendous AH tax that will bring prices down too

Actually the opposite would happen if the AH fee dropped. Prices would go up a lot, as less plat would exit the economy, so players would have more and it would be even less valuable than it is now.

If the AH had a 1% fee instead of a 30%, I'd expect to see Large Scales posted at - and selling for - one million plat.



Back on topic - I'm for anything that makes gearing up new toons to Epic readiness faster.

[Maxson]

/signed. There is way too much stuff in this game that makes it a grindfest. I can understand grinding if you're guaranteed your bonuses. This is where WoW got it right with their "pick your own epix, if you don't get the drops, you can purchase them by running it so many times"

Greensteel sorta does this, by letting you pick your ideal drop by grinding.

Problem is, you can fail at the initial grind by having bad luck. You know how tempted I am to sell my large devil scale in for the cash to buy a bloodstone? Yeah, I got lucky, a large scale in 1 run.

Epics seem to be better for this as you can at least purchase your gems for your sockets with epic tokens.

And of course, I would say dragon touched is the ABSOLUTE worst for this, at least you can buy and trade ingredients.

This game has a propensity for making you grind with only a chance of reward, that's not what I consider fair, I've also had over 200 attempts on a bloodstone and never had one.

Either a chance OR a grind, not both, that's a **** take.

[CountHenri]

Kinda in favour of this providing there was a bit of balancing done.

Firstly only the same materials combined - so 3 small Scales = 1 Medium scale.

Secondly I dont know if 3 to 1 is the right ratio. Theoretically you could run Shroud 1-3 to ransack and then do a completion netting a lot of larges. Ransack is 7 runs (I think?) and I normally pull 2-3 of smalls and mediums per run so you could end up with 12 larges (including actual pulls from completion) in a week (since you can do normal completions without large chests being ransacked).

Maybe allowing you to convert 3 of 1 ingredient for another (like GH Relics) would be a better option. Do it in the Altars appropriate for the size & it needs an appropriate energy cell as well...

Just realised this would probably be a coding nightmare to retro-fit (the altars currently ignore quantities) : perhaps the Twelve will discover the Altar of Combination under Meridia?

[grodon9999]

/signed, especially since this game keeps adding more grinding without alleviating the existing grind.

[grodon9999]

Secondly I dont know if 3 to 1 is the right ratio. Theoretically you could run Shroud 1-3 to ransack and then do a completion netting a lot of larges. Ransack is 7 runs (I think?) and I normally pull 2-3 of smalls and mediums per run so you could end up with 12 larges (including actual pulls from completion) in a week (since you can do normal completions without large chests being ransacked).


So what? Green Steel ain't what it used to be. The faster us noobs get that grind done the sooner we can move to the new and improved grindfest!

You still need a zillion completions for cleansing stones.

[mws2970]

/signed as well. I like the premise.

Btw, since when is 20 a zillion? 2 per week equals 10 weeks. You can do it faster if you ran them pretty much right when you come off timer.

[ArichValtrahn]

/signed

[CountHenri]

So what? Green Steel ain't what it used to be. The faster us noobs get that grind done the sooner we can move to the new and improved grindfest!

You still need a zillion completions for cleansing stones.

You dont need cleasing essences for weapons.

With the 3 to 1 upgrade grinding you could pop out a Min2 in about 2 weeks. Less if you have more Toons. Single shard Tier 3s even faster.

Suddenly everyone has them and then what? At the moment having a pair of Min2s shows a player who has spent some serious time playing the game and should have a clue. The other thing is Turbine will either have to nerf them or 'rebalance' content to match the arms race.

Don't get me wrong I'm very much in favour of some method to improve GS crafting ingredients (been needing 5 large scales for 10 freaking completions now) but making it too easy will have knock on effects.

[grodon9999]

You dont need cleasing essences for weapons.

With the 3 to 1 upgrade grinding you could pop out a Min2 in about 2 weeks. Less if you have more Toons. Single shard Tier 3s even faster.

.

I still fail to see how this is a problem.

[Diarden]

At the moment having a pair of Min2s shows a player who has spent some serious time playing the game and should have a clue.

"Should" being the operative word.

[dranreb]

You can already do this. Your stone of change is the auction house and/or forum marketplace. Put your smalls/mediums for sale, take the plat, and transform it into large scales.

The proper ratio of smalls:mediums:larges has already been determined by the market.

[BlackSteel]

/not signed

atleast atm you can readily identify the real pikers, you want to enable them to hide even better? Atleast by seeing a completed GS item atm you can rest assured that they've been at level for a long enough time to atleast be aware of how the end game works. As shortmanning/soloing up to the late teens is a drastic change from jumping into full parties or raid group at lvl 20.

by the end of 20 runs you can finish a double shard weapon, a tier 2 accessory, and have a choice between a +3 tome or a cleansing essence. unless you're lucky or a friend is lucky with raid loot pulls, the 20th or 40th reward list is most characters best shot at raid loot if they have a particular item in mind. Atleast in shroud you can be certain that you're working towards a goal; my FvS hates that I've gone 36 DQ runs w/o a torq. Or that my barb has done close to 20 epic Vons with only seeing a SoS shard drop for the entire raid once.

hey while you're at it, lets just make the p4 chest a 100% large drop as well. And get rid of the 20th reward lists, and just make them available on every completion. Get rid of epic scrolls. Let us pick DT rune effects. Or make epic slots cost 5 tokens instead of 30. /sarcasm off

[The_Ick]

/signed

Also /signed for greensteak De-Contruction.... Pretty please..

[grodon9999]

/not signed

atleast atm you can readily identify the real pikers, you want to enable them to hide even better? Atleast by seeing a completed GS item atm you can rest assured that they've been at level for a long enough time to atleast be aware of how the end game works. As shortmanning/soloing up to the late teens is a drastic change from jumping into full parties or raid group at lvl 20.

by the end of 20 runs you can finish a double shard weapon, a tier 2 accessory, and have a choice between a +3 tome or a cleansing essence. unless you're lucky or a friend is lucky with raid loot pulls, the 20th or 40th reward list is most characters best shot at raid loot if they have a particular item in mind. Atleast in shroud you can be certain that you're working towards a goal; my FvS hates that I've gone 36 DQ runs w/o a torq. Or that my barb has done close to 20 epic Vons with only seeing a SoS shard drop for the entire raid once.

hey while you're at it, lets just make the p4 chest a 100% large drop as well. And get rid of the 20th reward lists, and just make them available on every completion. Get rid of epic scrolls. Let us pick DT rune effects. Or make epic slots cost 5 tokens instead of 30. /sarcasm off

So more grind is good? Want to make sure I understand where you are coming from. I have 30+ Shroud completions on two toons and I have one Tier III item.

So we've got the following grinds to contend with, I'm sure I missed something:

- GH relic grind - guaranteed to make you out-level the content unless you buy relics
- Necro 4 Sigil - guaranteed to make you out-level the content, this is chronologically supposed to happen before the vale of twilight. I don't know any who've done Abbot before Shroud, many don't even bother.
- Shroud - Vale Flagging is fine, we grind for ingredients to make stuff. GS used to be the ubber-loot, it's not anymore.
- Reavers refuge - I'd rather stick my junk in a beehive than play the DT lottery. The random effects are bullsh1t.
- Raids in general - Chattering Rings, Madstone Boots, all the Desert stuff. Huge time-sink here.
- Amrath BoA - The ingredients do not drop nearly as often as they should. Many don't even bother. Once you get the boots you get rewarded with a whole new grind for rings and trophies.

and . .

Epic - gring upon grind. let take the old grind and make it grindier.

Regarding the Min II as a status symbol, are you ****ing kidding me? Are you that insecure in your epeens that god forbid some ridiculous grinding be lowered?

[Ganolyn]

So we've got the following grinds to contend with, I'm sure I missed something:

- GH relic grind - guaranteed to make you out-level the content unless you buy relics
- Necro 4 Sigil - guaranteed to make you out-level the content, this is chronologically supposed to happen before the vale of twilight. I don't know any who've done Abbot before Shroud, many don't even bother.
- Shroud - Vale Flagging is fine, we grind for ingredients to make stuff. GS used to be the ubber-loot, it's not anymore.
- Reavers refuge - I'd rather stick my junk in a beehive than play the DT lottery. The random effects are bullsh1t.
- Raids in general - Chattering Rings, Madstone Boots, all the Desert stuff. Huge time-sink here.
- Amrath BoA - The ingredients do not drop nearly as often as they should. Many don't even bother. Once you get the boots you get rewarded with a whole new grind for rings and trophies.

and . .

Epic - gring upon grind. let take the old grind and make it grindier.




You are seriously depressing me here. Is that all I really have to look forward to, a hamster wheel and pellet exsistence? :(

[Gnorbert]

You are seriously depressing me here. Is that all I really have to look forward to, a hamster wheel and pellet exsistence? :(

nah, I think i'll prefer the True Reincarnation grind :D

[Mav145]

Quite honestly, the thought of running another Shroud only to be disappointed is why my log-ins have been in the rare/seldom category. Also, the main reason that I am now premium and not VIP. Just not that fun to run something 20 times and still need a large something or other.

I have so many smalls and mediums that I would take a 10:1 rate. Anything just to move past the Shroud and not look back.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

nah, I think i'll prefer the True Reincarnation grind :D

If you want to have some real fun, grind your way up to 20 ensuring you have a GS weapon (2 if you TWF) and at least 1 greensteel clothing item. Then TR.

You know how much fun I had levelling my TR when at L11-13 you start putting on L16 raid gear? :p

[AylinIsAwesome]

/signed

[Slink]

/signed

*contemplates purchasing more small/med ingredients from the AH...*

[dranreb]

Quite honestly, the thought of running another Shroud only to be disappointed is why my log-ins have been in the rare/seldom category. Also, the main reason that I am now premium and not VIP. Just not that fun to run something 20 times and still need a large something or other.

I have so many smalls and mediums that I would take a 10:1 rate. Anything just to move past the Shroud and not look back.

We already have less than a 10:1 rate, if you're saying 10 small = 1 medium, 10 medium = 1 large.

You can easily sell 100 smalls in the auction house and get more than enough plat to pay for a large scale.

[Angelus_dead]

The proper ratio of smalls:mediums:larges has already been determined by the market.
No, it certainly has not. The only justification for that claim is a circular argument.

[Phidius]

I'm just tired of seeing my collection of Large Bones/Chains continue to grow and grow, while the other ingredients hover around 5 each.

However, when it comes to grind-fests, it's not the Shroud I'd point my finger at. At least you get decent trash loot out of the chests with the chance at pulling something you might actually use, versus the older content that you grind just for the tiny chance at that one named item you can use. And like others have mentioned, you can buy everything off the AH except shards.

[Celestialbeast]

This got alot more response than I thought it would. :D Thanks for all the replies. Howerever I would like to point out once again that this could only be done at the last altar. So 1) You HAVE to complete. 2) You have to have at least semi-decent pulls to do this. I STILL don't have any shrapnel on my character that I haven't had to trade/buy. 3) Not everyone is lucky with money. Yeah after about... 10 straight shroud runs and some good luck loot pulls I might be able to make enough cash to buy... 1 Large Devil Scale. Maybe. It simply costs too much to buy these items and the grind is obviously too much for most of the community. This includes Vets. Yes, all the Vets have more options and market knowledege but I have a few friends that are Vets and are STILL trying to get more than 2 large Devil Scales. On one charcter. With 3 characters grinding it. How fair is that?

[CountHenri]

Just a quick thought but maybe leaving the chest drops in part 4 as is & reversing the drop rates in part 5 so large Scales & Shrapnel are the more likely?

Encourages completions & will effectively shorten crafting times (quite a bit I'd say) without sending things completely out of whack.

Hey its just crazy enough to work ;)

[vindicater]

You can already do this. Your stone of change is the auction house and/or forum marketplace. Put your smalls/mediums for sale, take the plat, and transform it into large scales.

The proper ratio of smalls:mediums:larges has already been determined by the market.

/signed

I dont know about you but shards are the hurdle I cant get over. Run with me and I will gladly trade you the large you want for a supreme shard.
Do like I do ransack Tor every week on a couple toons then trade your scales for the larges you need.
If you cant find some part of the game you really like (for me it is killing dragons) you are not going to be happy ginding that new higher level you get to after you outgrow shroud.

[Lithic]

Crunching smalls into mediums into larges would be bad. Smalls and mediums are way way way too common, and too easily farmed.

Now a 3 to 1 trade in for larges would be fine, and has been asked for since people realised how high the use rate of scales and stones are.

Such a trade in system wouldn't even need that many options. All you need are the following 8:

3x shrap/bone/arrow/chain gives you 1 scale
3x shrap/bone/arrow/chain gives you 1 stone

Thats one less option than the GH relic turn in, and it would solve the "not enough scales/stones" problem that most greensteel makers have.

[HallowedOne]

/signed

I got my 1st large scale on my 11th run... I really don't like the idea of grabbing the next 4 on my 55th ...

[grodon9999]

You are seriously depressing me here. Is that all I really have to look forward to, a hamster wheel and pellet exsistence? :(

Don't get me wrong, it's still a hell of a lot of fun. For the most part the quests you need to play over and over again are great quests or they are short. You also can get a lot more replay value by upping the difficulty levels. Amrath Elite is a hell of a lot of fun once your equipped equipped for it.

My point is if Turbine should treat grind as a zero-sum game, if they add more something should be lowered. Yes I know the carrot and stick approach of keeper players playing works, but when you reach the point where getting "fully" equipped on multiple toons becomes insurmountable more while stop playing.