Offer Wall Update – 4/13/2010

[Patience]

Yesterday marked the launch of a new way to get Turbine Points – the Offer Wall. The goal of the system is to provide a way for players to get Turbine Points in exchange for completing offers that they are interested in.

Part of our rollout for this program includes reviewing our filtering and publishing process. Clearly we allowed some questionable offers to get through in the first 24 hours of operation, which was not our intent.

In fact, we have clearly defined criteria for approving offers prior to their publication. This set of rules is designed to make sure that we deliver the best experience possible to players who participate in the Offer Wall program. Unfortunately, during the initial launch of the Offer Wall we did not do a thorough enough job of applying these rules to the launch offers. That has been corrected, and the Offer Wall now contains only a specific subset of offers that should provide the best quality experience to players.

Going forward we will work to apply our offer standard more thoroughly. In an effort to be as transparent as possible, we’re sharing our Offer Wall Rules with you. If you come across an offer that violates any of the rules please immediately report the offer to offeradmin@turbine.com. We will remove the offer from our system as quickly as possible.

Offer Wall Rules

Any offer to be published on the Offer Wall must meet the following criteria:


No unapproved required downloads – ever. This includes toolbars, helper applications, plug-ins, and ActiveX Controls. Player security is our top priority.
All offers must be certified spyware-clean and confirmed in internal testing against a cleanroom environment.
Surveys must be legit. No lengthy prequalification surveys followed by a disqualification and no points. If the pre-qualification is more than 20 questions for our test cases, we won’t host the survey.
Surveys must not ask for game account information or information which could be used to discover a player’s credentials.
No deceptive offers – i.e. take this IQ test and get the results via SMS (free IQ test, SMS costs $).
Partners must display a privacy policy in a public location that can be checked.
Offers must pay out as expected. All offers must deliver the points promised in a clear and straightforward fashion.


By enforcing this policy consistently we hope to provide the best possible opportunity for players while continuing to support emerging payment methods. Thanks for your feedback during this initial (and rocky!) launch!

------------------------------------------------------
Updated: We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

[totmacher]

well, that's a step forward

[ArkoHighStar]

what about sending our email and username to superRewards for simply viewing the wall.

[Eladiun]

what about sending our email and username to superewards for simply viewing the wall.

Yes. This part apparently got skipped in the announcement.

[Yaga_Nub]

Better.

[Sirea]

Sad that it took people from your OWN PLAYER BASE to point out the many flaws in this system.

Perhaps it's time to hire a better web QA team.

[Hurtzz]

So far ,you kept a 4 yr+ customer we will see how this rides out

[rest]

Yes. This part apparently got skipped in the announcement.

Because they don't care.


$$$ > *

[rimble]

what about sending our email and username to superRewards for simply viewing the wall.


Surveys must not ask for game account information or information which could be used to discover a player’s credentials.

They don't even need to ask, heh...

[Thrudh]

Add a unique SuperRewards_ID to your database for each user account, send THAT to SuperRewards, and then when they send it back to you, you'll know who to credit...

Do that, and with the above clarifications you already presented... and I think many of us may forgive you...

[rest]

Sad that it took people from your OWN PLAYER BASE to point out the many flaws in this system.

Perhaps it's time to hire a better web QA team.

No doubt. All tho$e $hiny dollar $igns mu$t have blinded em.

[capluke]

Patience,

Can you confirm/deny that just viewing the wall will give Super Rewards my email address and username as said/showed by others on the forums? And if so, is that not a violation of Turbine's own Privacy Policy?

Thanks in advance for your prompt attention to this matter.

Concerned Customer

[Talcyndl]

what about sending our email and username to superRewards for simply viewing the wall.

This.

The nature of the offers is a very small problem. The fact that you are sharing your customer's private information with a third party without our consent is the BIG issue.

[Talcyndl]

Do that, and with the above clarifications you already presented... and I think many of us may forgive you...


Honestly, I think that may have headed off the crisis if done at the beginning, but it's too late for tinkering now. They should cancel the whole mess.

Although they may be caught contractually because of their agreement with SuperScams. :(

[Eladiun]

This.

The nature of the offers is a very small problem. The fact that you are sharing your customer's private information with a third party without our consent is the BIG issue.

Except for the fact that some of the offers came packaged with their very own malware download that is.

[Lerincho]

Patience,

Can you confirm/deny that just viewing the wall will give Super Rewards my email address and username as said/showed by others on the forums? And if so, is that not a violation of Turbine's own Privacy Policy?

Thanks in advance for your prompt attention to this matter.

Concerned Customer

it was already confirmed by Gol in 3 separate posts. Turbine will make no official comment on it.

[Anderei]

I suppose once they filter out all stuff that doesn't ripp you off, the wall will be empty.

This whole issue is why I'm now once again against micropayments. Altough I've in principle nothing against the idea of it, it seems to be a path that will lead you down to do stupid things like this. And all this actions are the very reason micropayments have such a bad reputation.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Patience,

Can you confirm/deny that just viewing the wall will give Super Rewards my email address and username as said/showed by others on the forums? And if so, is that not a violation of Turbine's own Privacy Policy?

Thanks in advance for your prompt attention to this matter.

Concerned Customer

I typed what this fella said, but mine was a little less polite (ok a lot).

[Hendrik]

This.

The nature of the offers is a very small problem. The fact that you are sharing your customer's private information with a third party without our consent is the BIG issue.

I think it the only issue.

[Oreg]

You are making a mistake Patience. Over the past 5 years, many, many times you have been the one constant voice of reason for Turbine. Convince them to do the right thing and get rid of this partnership. You know it is wrong.

[Deathseeker]

what about sending our email and username to superRewards for simply viewing the wall.


Add a unique SuperRewards_ID to your database for each user account, send THAT to SuperRewards, and then when they send it back to you, you'll know who to credit...

Do that, and with the above clarifications you already presented... and I think many of us may forgive you...

Please address the above. I think your initial response is a big step in the right direction. If you can assure us on the above as well, I for one will be satisfied with the offer wall. But this issue does need to be specifically addressed.

[Gleep_Wurp]

yup we messed up, so srry.srry for the inconvenance. and srry someone stole your credit card info and caused payments to bounce to mars

[Daehawk]

I had gone to check it out when it first started and saw there was about 3 pages of "offers" or so. So with their new filter here are all the offers I see:

Bestseller books as low as $9.95 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you join the Book of the Month Club for a monthly fee of $9.95 with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 2 hour delay. SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,392 Points

Columbia House DVD special: get 3 DVDs for $1.00 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you subscribe to Columbia House's 1 year plan for $3 plus shipping. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,311 Points

Join the Science Fiction Book Club and Get 5 Books for 1$!
No Credit Card needed
Points awarded when users choose books and join the club. Offer reports on a 2-4 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED.
1,352 Points

Need a great pair of new shoes? Choose from a huge selection at Shoebuy.com
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you complete any purchase at Shoebuy.com with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
1,035 Points

Instantly watch as many movies as you want from Netflix
Purchase required to receive Points
Points upon registration for home dvd delivery. Only new, first‐time Netflix customers are eligible to receive this offer. Previous members and their households are ineligible. Netflix reserves the right to revoke currency or goods if you cancel your Netflix membership within the first three (3) business days after signup.
1,196 Points

Buy concert tickets, sports tickets, theater tickets at competitive prices here
Here at the ticketnetwork you can buy sell and save. Tickets to MLB, NCAA, NHL Hockey, The Eagles, Lady GAGA and NBA Basketball.
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you make a minimum $65 purchase with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
904 Points

Get 8 risk-free issues of People, Entertainment Weekly, Sports Illustrated or Time Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you order 2 magazine trials at a minimum of $29.99 each with a valid credit card. If you cancel within 48 hours you risk being banned from the offer wall. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay.
703 Points

Get 6 Books for $2 from Children's Book of the Month Club
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when join the bookclub with a paid membership using a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 5 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,380 Points

Old Filter
3 pages of BS Download get spyware/adware/virus.

New Filter
8 Offers of buy this we'll give you points.

I'd rather just buy DDO points ^_^

[Anderei]

I think it the only issue.

Not the only one, the second is that they are actively advocating things which are close to a crime, some of the targets getting forwarded to rippoffs are minors.

[jcTharin]

I think it the only issue.

its not the only issue. but it is by far the biggest one.

I'm lucky that gmail has such a good spam filter

[rest]

I had gone to check it out when it first started and saw there was about 3 pages of "offers" or so. So with their new filter here are all the offers I see:

Bestseller books as low as $9.95 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you join the Book of the Month Club for a monthly fee of $9.95 with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 2 hour delay. SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,392 Points

Columbia House DVD special: get 3 DVDs for $1.00 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you subscribe to Columbia House's 1 year plan for $3 plus shipping. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,311 Points

Join the Science Fiction Book Club and Get 5 Books for 1$!
No Credit Card needed
Points awarded when users choose books and join the club. Offer reports on a 2-4 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED.
1,352 Points

Need a great pair of new shoes? Choose from a huge selection at Shoebuy.com
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you complete any purchase at Shoebuy.com with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
1,035 Points

Instantly watch as many movies as you want from Netflix
Purchase required to receive Points
Points upon registration for home dvd delivery. Only new, first‐time Netflix customers are eligible to receive this offer. Previous members and their households are ineligible. Netflix reserves the right to revoke currency or goods if you cancel your Netflix membership within the first three (3) business days after signup.
1,196 Points

Buy concert tickets, sports tickets, theater tickets at competitive prices here
Here at the ticketnetwork you can buy sell and save. Tickets to MLB, NCAA, NHL Hockey, The Eagles, Lady GAGA and NBA Basketball.
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you make a minimum $65 purchase with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
904 Points

Get 8 risk-free issues of People, Entertainment Weekly, Sports Illustrated or Time Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you order 2 magazine trials at a minimum of $29.99 each with a valid credit card. If you cancel within 48 hours you risk being banned from the offer wall. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay.
703 Points

Get 6 Books for $2 from Children's Book of the Month Club
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when join the bookclub with a paid membership using a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 5 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,380 Points

Old Filter
3 pages of BS Download get spyware/adware/virus.

New Filter
8 Offers of buy this we'll give you points.

I'd rather just buy DDO points ^_^


That is ****ing hilarious.

[ArkoHighStar]

I had gone to check it out when it first started and saw there was about 3 pages of "offers" or so. So with their new filter here are all the offers I see:

Bestseller books as low as $9.95 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you join the Book of the Month Club for a monthly fee of $9.95 with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 2 hour delay. SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,392 Points

Columbia House DVD special: get 3 DVDs for $1.00 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you subscribe to Columbia House's 1 year plan for $3 plus shipping. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,311 Points

Join the Science Fiction Book Club and Get 5 Books for 1$!
No Credit Card needed
Points awarded when users choose books and join the club. Offer reports on a 2-4 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED.
1,352 Points

Need a great pair of new shoes? Choose from a huge selection at Shoebuy.com
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you complete any purchase at Shoebuy.com with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
1,035 Points

Instantly watch as many movies as you want from Netflix
Purchase required to receive Points
Points upon registration for home dvd delivery. Only new, first‐time Netflix customers are eligible to receive this offer. Previous members and their households are ineligible. Netflix reserves the right to revoke currency or goods if you cancel your Netflix membership within the first three (3) business days after signup.
1,196 Points

Buy concert tickets, sports tickets, theater tickets at competitive prices here
Here at the ticketnetwork you can buy sell and save. Tickets to MLB, NCAA, NHL Hockey, The Eagles, Lady GAGA and NBA Basketball.
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you make a minimum $65 purchase with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
904 Points

Get 8 risk-free issues of People, Entertainment Weekly, Sports Illustrated or Time Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you order 2 magazine trials at a minimum of $29.99 each with a valid credit card. If you cancel within 48 hours you risk being banned from the offer wall. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay.
703 Points

Get 6 Books for $2 from Children's Book of the Month Club
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when join the bookclub with a paid membership using a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 5 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,380 Points

Old Filter
3 pages of BS Download get spyware/adware/virus.

New Filter
8 Offers of buy this we'll give you points.

I'd rather just buy DDO points ^_^


these offers while annoynig and not much of a deal, are at least semi legit, and as you point out not much of a deal, why would I buy magazines when I could just buy points.

[smatt]

Wow, just wow..... Ummmmmmm, kill the whole thing.... :cool: It was a bad idea to forward your customers into the dungeon of this scum ridden business.... :rolleyes:

[Lerincho]

Here is Turbine's problem:

You already gave out 100s if not 1000s of email address AND DDO ACCOUNT NAMES yet you think that the ability to have us help you filter the future offers is going to make one lick of difference? You literally could have at least 100 people who are screwed because some virus is now attacking the computer system. That is the same system they play DDO on and must now go have repaired, which means they are no longer in DDO for a mininum time, if they chose to come back at all. Trace programs are extremely easy to determine what was at fault for the virus, and the fact that Turbine fully endorsed ALL the ads on the Offer Wall at the time the Offer Wall went active; therefore, Turbine has liability just as much as the one who made the offer the virus came from.

Only after 100s of responses from your client base, with handfuls showing in depth how much you have violated your own End User Liscence Agreement; did you think about filtering those offers. What does this do for the person who was already effected by this absolutely stupid lapse of judgement by the decision makers? Nothing.

[Qzipoun]

They don't even need to ask, heh...

Exactly, Turbine doesn't want them to ask us our game info but they send it gladly.

I would be surprised if these "rules" weren't made after te release and realization of how dumb they were being.

Turbin doesn't need a better web QA team but a better team.

In reply to daehawk's post, that's not surprising. Money has to come from somewhere, you either allow personal information to be harvested and sold or pay yourself...

These "offers" are BS and whoever thought they were a good idea is not very good at their job

[jcTharin]

That is ****ing hilarious.

agreed

[Cyr]

/waits for a week for the outcry to lessen and the phishing scams to come back

Really how can Turbine say "Jeez guys we didn't realize we had three pages of these scams, malware downloads, and such" and now say that the highest standards will be maintained.

They are dealing with a very shady company. It's to be expected.

[Eladiun]

these offers while annoynig and not much of a deal, are at least semi legit, and as you point out not much of a deal, why would I buy magazines when I could just buy points.

Well, if I already wanted magazines or shoes why not get free points too...this kind of thing I have no issue with if all SuperRewards saw of me was this 4D225082-473B-11DF-B518-BB6656D89593.

[Talcyndl]

Except for the fact that some of the offers came packaged with their very own malware download that is.

For me the nature of the offers is a very small issue - because I never would have responded to any of them. :)

But, I did click on the link to view the Offer Wall page. So now SuperScams has my username and email address.

And even if I trusted SuperScams, Turbine violated its own Privacy Policy by sharing that information with SuperScams.

[smatt]

Patience,

Can you confirm/deny that just viewing the wall will give Super Rewards my email address and username as said/showed by others on the forums? And if so, is that not a violation of Turbine's own Privacy Policy?

Thanks in advance for your prompt attention to this matter.

Concerned Customer
Gol confirmed that.... He has no reason to BS on this...

The whole thing is ugly.. How the Turbine folks couldv'e thought this was a good idea...... Thsi isn't a *Good revenue stream....

Delete Wall of Shame..... Move on... Before more people have more problems with their system.. AND considering some of the issues with regestry edits these sites do.... There will be even MORE lag.... Yep....... Bad bad bad Turbine marketing dept..... NO SOUP FOR YOU! :eek:

[Ethias]

so, just because I looked at the offerwall, Turbine allowed some third party to have access to my account name and email...?

[broolthebeast]

yes by just "viewing" the wall your account log in name and associated email was passed on to super rewards.

[Phidius]

Sorry it took so long (shoulda taken the time to ink it, too)


http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr155/preciouswf/ClosingTheBarnDoor.jpg

[Anderei]

Filtered now or not, you are dealing with someone what I would call "the internet mafia", even if you now only do the not thaaat shady deals that guys dressed in black offer you. Secondly this whole issue has shown again Turbine does not a cautious company at all, dealing gracefully with our credentials, privacy, etc. (Just a random comparison of another ungraceful violation of privacy: myddo, public info when you've been playing once anybody knows you character name...)

[Mockduck]

Yesterday marked the launch of a new way to get Turbine Points – the Offer Wall. The goal of the system is to provide a way for players to get Turbine Points in exchange for completing offers that they are interested in.

Part of our rollout for this program includes reviewing our filtering and publishing process. Clearly we allowed some questionable offers to get through in the first 24 hours of operation, which was not our intent.

In fact, we have clearly defined criteria for approving offers prior to their publication. This set of rules is designed to make sure that we deliver the best experience possible to players who participate in the Offer Wall program. Unfortunately, during the initial launch of the Offer Wall we did not do a thorough enough job of applying these rules to the launch offers. That has been corrected, and the Offer Wall now contains only a specific subset of offers that should provide the best quality experience to players.

Going forward we will work to apply our offer standard more thoroughly. In an effort to be as transparent as possible, we’re sharing our Offer Wall Rules with you. If you come across an offer that violates any of the rules please immediately report the offer to offeradmin@turbine.com. We will remove the offer from our system as quickly as possible.

Offer Wall Rules

Any offer to be published on the Offer Wall must meet the following criteria:


No unapproved required downloads – ever. This includes toolbars, helper applications, plug-ins, and ActiveX Controls. Player security is our top priority.
All offers must be certified spyware-clean and confirmed in internal testing against a cleanroom environment.
Surveys must be legit. No lengthy prequalification surveys followed by a disqualification and no points. If the pre-qualification is more than 20 questions for our test cases, we won’t host the survey.
Surveys must not ask for game account information or information which could be used to discover a player’s credentials.
No deceptive offers – i.e. take this IQ test and get the results via SMS (free IQ test, SMS costs $).
Partners must display a privacy policy in a public location that can be checked.
Offers must pay out as expected. All offers must deliver the points promised in a clear and straightforward fashion.


By enforcing this policy consistently we hope to provide the best possible opportunity for players while continuing to support emerging payment methods. Thanks for your feedback during this initial (and rocky!) launch!

http://anuragbhatia.com/wp-content/uploads/thumbs-up.jpg

This is much better, glad to hear it. Honestly, I still personally wouldn't recommend that people use these offers, but I've always been pretty paranoid about this kind of stuff. If the partners follow the rules that will be a good improvement.

It's important to remember that this is a voluntary activity....one I won't be volunteering for.

[smatt]

Poster edited offensive post that was worded poorly.. Nevermind

[Spirethorn]

Well, if I already wanted magazines or shoes why not get free points too...this kind of thing I have no issue with if all SuperRewards saw of me was this 4D225082-473B-11DF-B518-BB6656D89593.

I have to wonder, though, if that is the kind of offer that will be up on the Wall, whether it would have been possible for Turbine to work directly with a few such vendors to have a purchase provide a code that could be redeemed in the DDO store for Turbine Points. (Similar to how some offers can come with a code for an in-game item.)

I'm sure using a company like SuperRewards saves some money on both sides of the equation, but as someone pointed out earlier, it could be at the cost of reputation. Building partnerships individually may be slower, but it might lead to stronger, more secure transactions in the long run for everyone involved.

This si just from the customer point of view, though, so I really don't know the complexities involved, just what I've seen from my perspective in the past.

[Gleep_Wurp]

its all about greed.it makes you do really stupid stuff you know is wrong

[Memnir]

No matter how you gild a turd - it's still a turd.


Justify it, spin it, damage-control it... it does not matter. The Wall is nothing but a festering, fecal pile of fail. The backlash and damaged customer confidence in you, Turbine, may be irreparable at this point. They STILL have our info, and you say nothing about it. Wonder why...

An apology, and it's removal would be the start to restoring our trust in you.

[DevKiller]

For me the nature of the offers is a very small issue - because I never would have responded to any of them. :)

But, I did click on the link to view the Offer Wall page. So now SuperScams has my username and email address.

And even if I trusted SuperScams, Turbine violated its own Privacy Policy by sharing that information with SuperScams.

I am no lawyer but if they violated their own privacy policy then does that not mean we can take class action against them.

The fact that it has been proven that there is a major issue here and Turbine has done nothing to stop it or apologize for it (There may have been one but I have not seen it) makes them even more negligent.

I figure if they won't do anything about violating their privacy policy then maybe we should.

[smatt]

http://anuragbhatia.com/wp-content/uploads/thumbs-up.jpg

This is much better, glad to hear it. Honestly, I still personally wouldn't recommend that people use these offers, but I've always been pretty paranoid about this kind of stuff. If the partners follow the rules that will be a good improvement.

It's important to remember that this is a voluntary activity....one I won't be volunteering for.



:eek: It's not really better Jerry.. It's almost the same... It's a half hearted attempt to save face, after they really dropped the ball.

[chodelord]

Yesterday marked the launch of a new way to get Turbine Points – the Offer Wall. The goal of the system is to provide a way for players to get Turbine Points in exchange for completing offers that they are interested in.

Part of our rollout for this program includes reviewing our filtering and publishing process. Clearly we allowed some questionable offers to get through in the first 24 hours of operation, which was not our intent.

In fact, we have clearly defined criteria for approving offers prior to their publication. This set of rules is designed to make sure that we deliver the best experience possible to players who participate in the Offer Wall program. Unfortunately, during the initial launch of the Offer Wall we did not do a thorough enough job of applying these rules to the launch offers. That has been corrected, and the Offer Wall now contains only a specific subset of offers that should provide the best quality experience to players.

Going forward we will work to apply our offer standard more thoroughly. In an effort to be as transparent as possible, we’re sharing our Offer Wall Rules with you. If you come across an offer that violates any of the rules please immediately report the offer to offeradmin@turbine.com. We will remove the offer from our system as quickly as possible.

Offer Wall Rules

Any offer to be published on the Offer Wall must meet the following criteria:


No unapproved required downloads – ever. This includes toolbars, helper applications, plug-ins, and ActiveX Controls. Player security is our top priority.
All offers must be certified spyware-clean and confirmed in internal testing against a cleanroom environment.
Surveys must be legit. No lengthy prequalification surveys followed by a disqualification and no points. If the pre-qualification is more than 20 questions for our test cases, we won’t host the survey.
Surveys must not ask for game account information or information which could be used to discover a player’s credentials.
No deceptive offers – i.e. take this IQ test and get the results via SMS (free IQ test, SMS costs $).
Partners must display a privacy policy in a public location that can be checked.
Offers must pay out as expected. All offers must deliver the points promised in a clear and straightforward fashion.


By enforcing this policy consistently we hope to provide the best possible opportunity for players while continuing to support emerging payment methods. Thanks for your feedback during this initial (and rocky!) launch!

Translated from corpspeak to human: We are sorry we got caught, we will rip you off in more subtle ways in the future. To everyone who got malware, got their email address to harvested by the scammers and spammers, and who got unauthorized charges on their cards, you will be happy to know the check from Superscum cleared!

[ArkoHighStar]

hey does someone have the number to Atari's attorneys, I am sure they would love this:D

[Psyker]

Filtered now or not, you are dealing with someone what I would call "the internet mafia", even if you now only do the not thaaat shady deals that black guys offer you.

Really?? That black guys offer your?? What exactly are you trying to say?

[Eladiun]

I have to wonder, though, if that is the kind of offer that will be up on the Wall, whether it would have been possible for Turbine to work directly with a few such vendors to have a purchase provide a code that could be redeemed in the DDO store for Turbine Points. (Similar to how some offers can come with a code for an in-game item.)

I'm sure using a company like SuperRewards saves some money on both sides of the equation, but as someone pointed out earlier, it could be at the cost of reputation. Building partnerships individually may be slower, but it might lead to stronger, more secure transactions in the long run for everyone involved.

This si just from the customer point of view, though, so I really don't know the complexities involved, just what I've seen from my perspective in the past.

It was more of an inside programming joke... The number was a Globally Unique Identifier (GUID) I generated and yes I can fully represent a user and their account data using one. You can pass one between systems to represent anything rather than passing identifiable data.

[Anderei]

OK, Turbines total stupidity surroudning this aside.... What does a shaddy deal have to do with soemone being black? Seriously..... Take your fricken racist **** and shove up your arse.... It's not needed here... :mad:

Im sorry, I ment -dressed in black -, I'm really not a racist, honestly. Ill edit my post right away.

[Eladiun]

Really?? That black guys offer your?? What exactly are you trying to say?

I knew someone was going there...

[kudesnik]

I think "Wall" should go away, Turbine will gain little yet will loose trust of players.
It is not worse it - building up reputation and momentum for all this time since DDOU and loose it in ONE day, due to questionable profit source.

Sad, just sad.

[Aeneas]

OK, Turbines total stupidity surroudning this aside.... What does a shaddy deal have to do with soemone being black? Seriously..... Take your fricken racist **** and shove up your arse.... It's not needed here... :mad:

Not to defend him just in case he really is that ignorant - but judging by his english, i guess maybe he could mean something completely different and not racist that either got mangled in his babelfish cut and paste translation or that he himself just mistranslated. Maybe "black guys" was a weird translation of "shady dudes" since shade is arguably black (or at least a dark gray).

If in fact he did mean black guys, he may want to avoid the forums from now on.

[Ethias]

Just checked out http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2889279&postcount=2 ...

That explains why I got an email from Blizard Account Management (lol) about WoW. =p

This is not cool at all. At this point, you're going to have a hard time working this out in any decent way.

[capluke]

Gol confirmed that.... He has no reason to BS on this...

The whole thing is ugly.. How the Turbine folks couldv'e thought this was a good idea...... Thsi isn't a *Good revenue stream....

Delete Wall of Shame..... Move on... Before more people have more problems with their system.. AND considering some of the issues with regestry edits these sites do.... There will be even MORE lag.... Yep....... Bad bad bad Turbine marketing dept..... NO SOUP FOR YOU! :eek:


Smatt,

My asking Turbine to confirm/deny this is in no way discrediting what Gol and others have shown. I actually applaud them for doing what they have done! Because of what Gol and others have posted I have not visited the wall and nor will I ever as I'm sure many others.

However, my money goes to Turbine and they have a fiduciary responsibility by accepting my money to abide by their own stated policy. So as a paying customer I am asking them to answer the question. Sure, they most likely will not answer me in this forum, but it would be negligent on my part not to ask.

BTW - ToD tonight?

Avvenger

[Deathseeker]

Still waiting for a response on our Email/Account ID's being sent. I actually would like to sign up for the Netflix deal and get my points, but am holding off until we get an answer on this point.

I think if these rules would have been in place originally, and you shared a code with the third party instead of our actual info, this would have been a different discussion. But you didn't give those of us who are open minded on this much to work with. You've addressed one piece after the fact, but need to address the other before there's a chance at starting to put this to rest.

[Eladiun]

Translated from corpspeak to human: We are sorry we got caught, we will rip you off in more subtle ways in the future. To everyone who got malware, got their email address to harvested by the scammers and spammers, and who got unauthorized charges on their cards, you will be happy to know the check from Superscum cleared!

Or in street lingo, I'm still hooking up with a dirty street walker but I'm wearing protection now so it's cool.

[Lorz]

Yeah care to explain , anybody from Turbine,

How you always say...never give out username/password....and yet TURBINE has done 1/2 of this ALREADY and tied it to your EMAIL.

Great move their Turbine...Try following your own advice.

[Sylvurdragon]

Filtered now or not, you are dealing with someone what I would call "the internet mafia", even if you now only do the not thaaat shady deals that guys dressed in black offer you. Secondly this whole issue has shown again Turbine does not a cautious company at all, dealing gracefully with our credentials, privacy, etc. (Just a random comparison of another ungraceful violation of privacy: myddo, public info when you've been playing once anybody knows you character name...)

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and, based on the way the rest of the email is written, say that english is not your first language. You didn't actually mean "black guys" as in skin color did you? If so, that's pretty bad, man...you'd get your a$$ kicked talkin like that.

I'm hoping you meant something completely different and non-racist...but I can't imagine what that would be lol (any ideas?)


On a side note...until I hear something about the user ID/emails being stored, my personal opinion on this matter really hasn't changed that dramatically.

[Anderei]

Not to defend him just in case he really is that ignorant - but judging by his english, i guess maybe he could mean something completely different and not racist that either got mangled in his babelfish cut and paste translation or that he himself just mistranslated. Maybe "black guys" was a weird translation of "shady dudes" since shade is arguably black (or at least a dark gray).


as posted, yes, sometime your words say something you really did not want to intent to express, sorry, I'm actually so anti-racist, it didn't come to my mind, one might understand it that way. So can we get now back to the issue how bad superscam is, and the whole idea of making business with them?

[Spirethorn]

It was more of an inside programming joke... The number was a Globally Unique Identifier (GUID) I generated and yes I can fully represent a user and their account data using one. You can pass one between systems to represent anything rather than passing identifiable data.

Ah. :) You know, I did not even really look at the format of the number you had listed. I was too focused on wondering whether it would have been better for Turbine in the long run to partner with, say, a magazine publisher to provide new subscribers to the magazine a code for Turbine Points. That way, there would be no need for the third party company to have your DDO/Turbine account info at all.

[Stuttrboy]

I might be interested in the netflicks offer but I won't touch that Wall with a 10 foot pole if you won't guarantee they will not receive my personal info when accessing the website.

[Turial]

Given that ones e-mail and username is given away freely when looking at the old wall offers...how am I to know that this information wasn't already given away freely by turbine?

[broolthebeast]

ya i was just shuffling thru my email and noticed a wow phishing email as well.

[taurean430]

Filtered now or not, you are dealing with someone what I would call "the internet mafia", even if you now only do the not thaaat shady deals that guys dressed in black offer you. Secondly this whole issue has shown again Turbine does not a cautious company at all, dealing gracefully with our credentials, privacy, etc. (Just a random comparison of another ungraceful violation of privacy: myddo, public info when you've been playing once anybody knows you character name...)

Black guys like this people:

http://msp197.photobucket.com/albums/aa71/Sammy_battaglia/MafiaLegends.gif

Not Black guys like me:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2868956#post2868956

[Anderei]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and, based on the way the rest of the email is written, say that english is not your first language. You didn't actually mean "black guys" as in skin color did you? If so, that's pretty bad, man...you'd get your a$$ kicked talkin like that.

I'm hoping you meant something completely different and non-racist...but I can't imagine what that would be lol (any ideas?)

Emm you quoted alrady the edited post written in the way I intended, so can we get over this now? No, Im not a racist, I'm personally politically green/left and I hate racists. Ok? Sorry to have used a bad wording.

[Darkrok]

Wow. Just wow.

I looked at the wall today on a work computer. Just looked at it. I clicked on one of the deals to see what it was, saw it was one of those 'pay for a text message' scams, and closed out of it. Now you're telling me that some third party that seems VERY shady to me has my email address and account name?

That's disappointing to say the least. I have a very secure network here at work. I can't pin this one on the wall with 100% certainty but my computer was compromised earlier today (after viewing the wall from work) via VNC. There seems to be a fairly good likelihood that it was due to the wall simply due to the timing. I immediately closed VNC, changed passwords, updated, etc, but if DDO is going to have links on their site that open your computer up to be hacked...man, I just don't know. Computer security is enough of a headache without having a program you actually DO want to use acting as spyware.

[Khimberlhyte]

You missed two simple words, Patience. Two words that would have made a world of difference.

Those two words? "We're sorry."

As it stands, your response is underwhelming. I will be asking to have my credit card info removed from your system next week if you are unable to do better than this. I no longer trust Turbine to do the right thing, and nothing you said even begins to change that.

[UnderwearModel]

I have a problem that any QA was applied to these offers.

[Sylvurdragon]

lol yes, this was handled while i was typing apparently - already moved on :-D I actually added a statement that was relevant to the post, below it :-D

[smatt]

Smatt,

My asking Turbine to confirm/deny this is in no way discrediting what Gol and others have shown. I actually applaud them for doing what they have done! Because of what Gol and others have posted I have not visited the wall and nor will I ever as I'm sure many others.

However, my money goes to Turbine and they have a fiduciary responsibility by accepting my money to abide by their own stated policy. So as a paying customer I am asking them to answer the question. Sure, they most likely will not answer me in this forum, but it would be negligent on my part not to ask.

BTW - ToD tonight?

Avvenger Well they purposely left out any mention of that, and they know about it and the complaints about it as well. I'm going to say that it's likely they have to give that info for the whole thing to work from the technical side. As I said this is a rather poor clean-up job of a really bad mistake , at least from my point of view. But I agree if people keep asking they MIGHT actually admit that they're sharing your e-mail and acount identifier.... Which more that likely htey can actually do legally, since they can share that info with their partners, of which this Spam-Data Collection-Scam artist of a company clearly is.


And ya I can do ToD tonight....

[chodelord]

when you click the link to look at the offers wall, your email address is sent in plain text in the get request to Superscumbaggoatrapers

the username appears obfuscated in some way but without knowing the algorithm there is now way to determine if the original username can be extracted or not

[Sirea]

I had gone to check it out when it first started and saw there was about 3 pages of "offers" or so. So with their new filter here are all the offers I see:

Bestseller books as low as $9.95 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you join the Book of the Month Club for a monthly fee of $9.95 with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 2 hour delay. SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,392 Points

Columbia House DVD special: get 3 DVDs for $1.00 each
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you subscribe to Columbia House's 1 year plan for $3 plus shipping. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,311 Points

Join the Science Fiction Book Club and Get 5 Books for 1$!
No Credit Card needed
Points awarded when users choose books and join the club. Offer reports on a 2-4 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED.
1,352 Points

Need a great pair of new shoes? Choose from a huge selection at Shoebuy.com
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you complete any purchase at Shoebuy.com with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
1,035 Points

Instantly watch as many movies as you want from Netflix
Purchase required to receive Points
Points upon registration for home dvd delivery. Only new, first‐time Netflix customers are eligible to receive this offer. Previous members and their households are ineligible. Netflix reserves the right to revoke currency or goods if you cancel your Netflix membership within the first three (3) business days after signup.
1,196 Points

Buy concert tickets, sports tickets, theater tickets at competitive prices here
Here at the ticketnetwork you can buy sell and save. Tickets to MLB, NCAA, NHL Hockey, The Eagles, Lady GAGA and NBA Basketball.
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you make a minimum $65 purchase with a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 15 minute delay.
904 Points

Get 8 risk-free issues of People, Entertainment Weekly, Sports Illustrated or Time Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when you order 2 magazine trials at a minimum of $29.99 each with a valid credit card. If you cancel within 48 hours you risk being banned from the offer wall. Offer reports on a 24 hour delay.
703 Points

Get 6 Books for $2 from Children's Book of the Month Club
Purchase required to receive Points
Points awarded when join the bookclub with a paid membership using a valid credit card. Offer reports on a 5 day delay. *SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED
1,380 Points

Old Filter
3 pages of BS Download get spyware/adware/virus.

New Filter
8 Offers of buy this we'll give you points.

I'd rather just buy DDO points ^_^

So lemme get this straight, the whole "GET FREE POINTS!" thing is really "(buy this and) GET FREE POINTS!"?

ROFLcopter

So they're pretty much actively admitting that the whole "GET FREE POINTS!" thing really is/was a scam, no matter which way you look at it? That, my friends, is so priceless. I don't know whether to label that a win or a fail.

Wow...

*glances at calendar* one week...

[broolthebeast]

I have a problem that any QA was applied to these offers.


Turbine doesnt do QA. ON ANYTHING.

[Darkrok]

You missed two simple words, Patience. Two words that would have made a world of difference.

Those two words? "We're sorry."

As it stands, your response is underwhelming. I will be asking to have my credit card info removed from your system next week if you are unable to do better than this. I no longer trust Turbine to do the right thing, and nothing you said even begins to change that.

That's a very good point. I don't know that Turbine can be trusted with any payment information at this point. They best be looking into retail cards for Turbine points because I can see a lot of people unwilling to provide payment/contact information given their blatant disregard for our privacy.

Just to further complain - I got to the wall by clicking a link on the main forums page. There was NO disclaimer about privacy information being given away whatsoever. I did not give Turbine my permission for my information to be given to anyone when I clicked that link. This is just terribly bad and I've already had a computer intrusion in the hour since I clicked the link AND DID NOTHING ELSE THERE BUT TYPE IN AN EMAIL ADDRESS ON A FORM! Could the intrusion have come from somewhere else? Sure. Is it likely? Not at all.

Turbine better have good backups and be ready for a TON of support because I see a lot of hacked accounts in their future.

[EAB]

Honestly people did you really think that filling out a survey for some thing free wouldn't come with a price? This is not Turbines fault if you go to the these sites, there are other rewards. Turbine is just being nice and letting other people get free points. All these services give you rewards for your personal info that you willingly fill out and your time. If you don't want your info being given out then don't sign up for the points. Just buy the points from the DDO Store or become VIP. No one is telling you that you have to sign up to get these "FREE" points. Unless someone has a screen shot of other proof that shows that turbine is giving away your account info this is all one bug conspiracy theory and people need to get over them selves. Believe me if Turbine is in the wrong, I am the first person to point it out. They are not the ones at fault here. So, if you do the survey's and don't want your info shared, now how is that Turbine's fault?

[Krag]

I don't care about e-mail since its sole purpose always was registering on shady and insecure sites.
What I would like to know if it is possible to change my account name? I don't feel safe after it was exposed.

[DevKiller]

Again I am no lawyer but..

By using the Turbine Sites and Services, users agree that Turbine may share with other parties aggregate information and non-identifiable information gathered by Turbine in the course of your use of the Turbine Sites and Services. “Aggregate information” is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user. “Non-identifiable information” is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies contact and/or billing information for any user, or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. Aggregate information and/or non-identifiable information may be used by Turbine for any purpose, including, without limitation, to improve the Turbine Sites and Services, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Turbine’s users.

Turbine may use contact information provided by users to send information about (i) Turbine and the Turbine Sites and Services for which you subscribed or otherwise used or accessed, including, without limitation, news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, and (ii) only if the users agree to receive such communications, for unrelated products or services. “Personally identifiable information” is information that permits a recipient to identify you as an individual, such as your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, and credit card information. While Turbine collects personally identifiable information on a voluntary basis for the use of the Turbine Sites and Services, Turbine’s collection of personally identifiable information may be a requirement for access to certain parts of the Turbine Sites or Services. We may collect personally identifiable information from you from a variety of ways, including when you (a) make an online purchase from the Turbine Sites, (b) register to become a member or user of the Turbine Sites and Services, (c) voluntarily provide it when you use the Turbine Site and Services, (d) disclose it in a public area of the Turbine Site and Services, or (e) provide it when you communicate with us.

If you make an online purchase or register to become a member or user of the Turbine Sites and Services, we may use the personally identifiable information that you provide in connection with such purchase for shipping and billing purposes, to administer and manage your account, or provide promotional updates regarding such Turbine Sites and Services as contemplated above. In addition, we may send out periodic e-mails informing you of technical or security issues related to the Turbine Sites and Services you requested, confirming you requested a product or service, or providing periodic updates or information relating to the Turbine Sites and Services you requested. For so long as you are subscribed to or otherwise using or accessing a Turbine Site or Service, you will not be able to choose to unsubscribe from these mailings, as they are considered an essential part of the product or service you have chosen.

Except in the cases described below, Turbine will not share personally identifiable information with any third-party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance.

I am pretty sure noone gave their permission. I do not beleive it would hold up in court.

[Ministry]

The sad part about this that I was pretty **** sure this was going to be a bad thing and I prefer to just earn or buy my points and had no intention of using this offer wall.

Sad that I'm right.

Sad that people actually thought this might help them get some points with no repercussions and only a little work. Nothing is for free or almost free.

Sad that this wasn't very well tested and that trusting players went and tried this out.

Honestly, I don't fault Turbine for what they have done turning this game into F2P and for this offer wall, because we are in a capitalist society and they are trying whatever they can to be profitable and sustain the game.

As is anything in life, this is buyer beware. We have all been stung somehow in the past by offers that were too good to be true.

Perhaps Turbine was unaware of this partnership and how it would ultimately affect the player base.

Yes, perhaps they could have tested it more to ensure it worked as expected, but I'm guessing they were going on face value / their word.

Now, here's what happens when a reputable company realizes their customers have been messed with... THEY UNDO IT AND APOLOGIZE.

It looks kinda like they have.

But seriously... UNDO it and MAKE IT RIGHT would be better.

Go after those advertisers / scammers, make them relinquish any and all information they have from players and then give the players some points for their inconvenience and then either dismantle this program or enforce what Turbine is trying to enforce now and put up EXTREME warnings.

BIG :(

[chodelord]

You can bet your bottom dollar that the account names are being sold by superscam to gold farmers as we speak. Then come the phishing emails and dictionary attacks.

[Hambo]

Still waiting for a response on our Email/Account ID's being sent. I actually would like to sign up for the Netflix deal and get my points, but am holding off until we get an answer on this point.

I think if these rules would have been in place originally, and you shared a code with the third party instead of our actual info, this would have been a different discussion. But you didn't give those of us who are open minded on this much to work with. You've addressed one piece after the fact, but need to address the other before there's a chance at starting to put this to rest.

If you try this please send me a PM with the web site you get linked to. I'm a Netflix customer and I can verify if it's valid or not.

If it's valid then it should be a good deal. My only complaint would be that I cannot participate as I'm already a with Netflix. I have no complaints service wise... 20,000+ instant view titles (stream right to the computer, or TV with the right device), plus unlimited DVD rental for $15/mo, only restriction is 3 DVDs in my posession at a time and 2 days from time I send a DVD back until the next appears.

That being said, I think I'll wait a while before I look at the wall again. :rolleyes:

[Zachski]

Honestly people did you really think that filling out a survey for some thing free wouldn't come with a price? This is not Turbines fault if you go to the these sites, there are other rewards. Turbine is just being nice and letting other people get free points. All these services give you rewards for your personal info that you willingly fill out and your time. If you don't want your info being given out then don't sign up for the points. Just buy the points from the DDO Store or become VIP. No one is telling you that you have to sign up to get these "FREE" points. Unless someone has a screen shot of other proof that shows that turbine is giving away your account info this is all one bug conspiracy theory and people need to get over them selves. Believe me if Turbine is in the wrong, I am the first person to point it out. They are not the ones at fault here. So, if you do the survey's and don't want your info shared, now how is that Turbine's fault?

...Did you even read the topic?

It's not filling out a survey that gives them your information, it's clicking on the site that does it. Even if you don't click on a single offer, Superrewards still gets your information.

[Naash]

what about sending our email and username to superRewards for simply viewing the wall.

Agreed,it doesnt matter if the links are clean when the parent website is filthy.
Its like diving for pearls in a septic tank.

[Darkrok]

Honestly people did you really think that filling out a survey for some thing free wouldn't come with a price? This is not Turbines fault if you go to the these sites, there are other rewards. Turbine is just being nice and letting other people get free points. All these services give you rewards for your personal info that you willingly fill out and your time. If you don't want your info being given out then don't sign up for the points. Just buy the points from the DDO Store or become VIP. No one is telling you that you have to sign up to get these "FREE" points. Unless someone has a screen shot of other proof that shows that turbine is giving away your account info this is all one bug conspiracy theory and people need to get over them selves. Believe me if Turbine is in the wrong, I am the first person to point it out. They are not the ones at fault here. So, if you do the survey's and don't want your info shared, now how is that Turbine's fault?

The problem is that I didn't fill out a survey. I clicked Turbine's link on their page. I filled out a disposable email address that I have tied in to my real address (but can be canceled at any time) on the first line of the first offer to see what it was and saw it was one of the 'charge for a text message' scams and closed out. At no point did I provide my email address or account information to anyone.

But according to the research that Gol did Turbine DID share that information. Without warning me ahead of time. It may be their right to do so as this company is one of their 'partners' now but a warning would have been nice especially since the link to the wall is provided with no explanation on the main page of forums.ddo.com.

[ArkoHighStar]

Just spoke to account maintenance had my credit card removed from my account, it was painless and took 3 minutes. I pay yearly so I will add it back then(if I am still here), and then call to have it removed.

[EAB]

...Did you even read the topic?

It's not filling out a survey that gives them your information, it's clicking on the site that does it. Even if you don't click on a single offer, Superrewards still gets your information.

That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.

[DevKiller]

Honestly people did you really think that filling out a survey for some thing free wouldn't come with a price? This is not Turbines fault if you go to the these sites, there are other rewards. Turbine is just being nice and letting other people get free points. All these services give you rewards for your personal info that you willingly fill out and your time. If you don't want your info being given out then don't sign up for the points. Just buy the points from the DDO Store or become VIP. No one is telling you that you have to sign up to get these "FREE" points. Unless someone has a screen shot of other proof that shows that turbine is giving away your account info this is all one bug conspiracy theory and people need to get over them selves. Believe me if Turbine is in the wrong, I am the first person to point it out. They are not the ones at fault here. So, if you do the survey's and don't want your info shared, now how is that Turbine's fault?

That is fine however...

1) They promoted it
2) There was no disclaimer that what their promoting would go against ther pivacy policy
3) They signed up and offered a service that went against their privacy policy

I agree that everyone should look before they leap and nothing is for free but when you have a Company that is holding your private information and provides a policy that is supposed to protect it then it should be enough and if you are going to go outside that then you should provide the information for your customers so they are aware.

So it really is their fault. The big question is what are they going to do about it, I have been a VIP for 2 years and I for one am rethinking sticking around.

[cdbd3rd]

No matter how you gild a turd - it's still a turd....

Although -- if you filter a turd enough times it becomes the city water supply. :rolleyes:


* Hated the concept since I heard of it (having seen the pointlessness of it all in other settings).
* Am displeased at what I'm seeing of it's initial kick-off.
* Couldn't be paid enough (cash NOR TPs) to ever use any service thru that kind of site.

Most of us old-heads are nerdly enough to look before we leap at anything like that, so this seems targeted more at the unsuspecting newb population. Hate to think that we ("we" as in a game company/player partnership) will be associated with that kind of tactic.

I support getting rid of the whole cart of baggage as soon as contractually able to.

[Sylvurdragon]

Honestly people did you really think that filling out a survey for some thing free wouldn't come with a price? This is not Turbines fault if you go to the these sites, there are other rewards. Turbine is just being nice and letting other people get free points. All these services give you rewards for your personal info that you willingly fill out and your time. If you don't want your info being given out then don't sign up for the points. Just buy the points from the DDO Store or become VIP. No one is telling you that you have to sign up to get these "FREE" points. Unless someone has a screen shot of other proof that shows that turbine is giving away your account info this is all one bug conspiracy theory and people need to get over them selves. Believe me if Turbine is in the wrong, I am the first person to point it out. They are not the ones at fault here. So, if you do the survey's and don't want your info shared, now how is that Turbine's fault?

Yak, I think the major underlying issue is Turbine is being considered guilty by association. By associating themselves with SuperRewards! and not doing the background check on the offers that were available, they have jeopardized many of their new members machines/email accounts. SuperRewards has a very bad reputation around the web and, because of this, Turbine is being considered as money grubbing or dealing with the mob.

I'm not one of the many who started canceling their account, nor do I plan on discontinuing my VIP membership because of this...I am just afraid of what this is going to do to the company with the bad press I know this will get and the word of mouth...

I appreciate Patience's reply...but there are still a few unanswered questions.

[Pwesiela]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f345/mehn_deke/Wall.jpg

[ArkoHighStar]

That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.

install fiddler2 on your machine and you can see for yourself, but if you need a screenshot I can do so tonihgt when I am off my work machine

[Halok]

I have read the forums for some time, but I have never posted until now.

After reading all the discussions regarding the new "offer wall" and the potential security holes that go with it, I have decided to delete DDO from my hard disk. I did enjoy playing the game, however, I no longer feel comfortable considering the potential for infection and this announcement (IMO) did nothing to relieve those concerns.

The fact that the Turbine staff admits to failing to protect customer privacy -even if only for 24 hours- leaves me with an unshakable image of either incompetance or apathy towards their users.


Unfortunately, during the initial launch of the Offer Wall we did not do a thorough enough job of applying these rules to the launch offers.

Apparently the urge to green light all the hyperlinks to start up the cash cow milking machine was more important than waiting 24-48 hours to run these offer wall 'deals' through quality control.
And now this announcement reads to me like nothing more than a standard PR damage control response that any company would issue after viewing the negative feedback pouring in.

It seems to me that anyone gullible enough to believe this announcement is the exact same type of person that would willingly participate in these scam offers to begin with and it is insulting to think that saying essentially,
"Sorry we messed up, but we will not mess up again. You can count on that and believe me when I tell you we have now implemented steps to assure this type of screw up cannot occur again. Trust me. Here is our list of (new) rules", would be enough for anyone, but to each his/her own.

I would still like to say thank you for the time I was able to enjoy this product prior to today. I can appreciate the fact that Turbine is a business and wants to grow, which means tapping into as many revenue streams as possible. Of course, from a strictly business perspective, as a customer the only choice I have if I disagree with your new business decisions is to walk away and take my money with me. No hard feelings and I hope this brings you some profit growth.
Good luck Turbine!

[broolthebeast]

That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.

It's all been posted already. What happens when you just "view" the offers page on the my.ddo.com page

No software install is needed for your information to be transmitted to shady websites.

[ArichValtrahn]

Still waiting for a response on our Email/Account ID's being sent.

As am I. I said my peace about this issue when it first came up and then tried to stay out of the spam thats followed. But Im pretty pi$$ed off that my email address was sent to this spam haven. All i did was click on Tolero's link to see if it was working because people reported it was bad. I had no interest in these scams and did not realize I was giving out my personal and very spam-free private email address by checking to see if the link worked.

Im currently considering canceling my VIP subscription.

[smatt]

I don't care about e-mail since its sole purpose always was registering on shady and insecure sites.
What I would like to know if it is possible to change my account name? I don't feel safe after it was exposed.

Probably, go to myaccoutn section and check it out... Although who knows what kind of a mess you will encounter when they do that... Sorry about those Turbine points you lost... We'll get back to you in 6 months (maybe) to see if we can replace them.... :cool:

This episode has really destroyed my respect for Turbine as a whole. They get beat up pretty bad for some pretty poor reasons..... But man...... They really F-d this up..... The sad thing is.... They don't REALLY seem to care with this half-hearted oops message.....

[rimble]

That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.

I think you should unplug your network cable. You're not safe out here.

[Gol]

That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.To Mr EAB: that's one hell of a tinfoil hat. Where can I get one?


I will be conducting some extensive tests tonight. The plan:

1) Create a new dummy email account that has never been used before.
2) Create a F2P account with Turbine
3) Visit the Offer Wall with an HTTP debugger running
4) Start a thread to publish my results
5) Monitor email to that address for 48 hours

I took screenshots but deleted them because they had my info in them and I didn't feel like doctoring them up to remove the information. I will gladly post screenshots of my testing along the way tonight.

[Naash]

That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=242978

[ArkoHighStar]

It's all been posted already. What happens when you just "view" the offers page on the my.ddo.com page

No software install is needed for your information to be transmitted to shady websites.

the software used to discover the information is called fiddler2, it is an http debugger, ishows clearly what is being sent and what is being sent back

[EAB]

Guys and Gals. You guys know that I am the first person to attack Turbine and waiting for them to make a mistake so I can point the finger. The question is that why is Yak comming to defend Turbine. Even though cigarettes and alcohol have a warning it's the person using the stuff to take responsibility for their own actions. Come on guys it's like blaming a pen for bad spelling. I also work in the technology field as most people don't understand it so they panic. It's not their fault just like i am not a doctor. If some one willing gave out their info, installed something and doesn't have any type of Anti-Virus then it's their own fault. It doesn't matter if it's Turbine endorsed, this is where common sense comes into play. Unless someone can provide to me a screen shot of their system being hacked and sending away your info this is utter and totally BULL ****!!!!

[broolthebeast]

the software used to discover the information is called fiddler2, it is an http debugger, ishows clearly what is being sent and what is being sent back

OH I know arko, i wasnt stating that. I was stating that no software install is needed for your information to be transmitted to super rewards for just "viewing" the offers page we were referred to by tolero when this "offer wall" launched. More of just pointing out to him that nothing needs to be installed for them to get our info.

[Gol]

I also work in the technology field


Unless someone can provide to me a screen shot of their system being hacked and sending away your info this is utter and totally BULL ****!!!!
I'd suggest these 2 statements are conflicting, but that's my opinion.

[chodelord]

the software used to discover the information is called fiddler2, it is an http debugger, ishows clearly what is being sent and what is being sent back

There is a very handy firefox extension called "httpfox" https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6647

It displays all of the http requests made by firefox. Very handy for filtering ads out of flash content.

[broolthebeast]

Guys and Gals. You guys know that I am the first person to attack Turbine and waiting for them to make a mistake so I can point the finger. The question is that why is Yak coming to defend Turbine. Even though cigarettes and alcohol have a warning it's the person using the stuff to take responsibility for their own actions. Come on guys it's like blaming a pen for bad spelling. I also work in the technology field as most people don't understand it so they panic. It's not their fault just like i am not a doctor. If some one willing gave out their info, installed something and doesn't have any type of Anti-Virus then it's their own fault. It doesn't matter if it's Turbine endorsed, this is where common sense comes into play. Unless someone can provide to me a screen shot of their system being hacked and sending away your info this is utter and totally BULL ****!!!!

Well enough information has been posted about it already. Im not gonna argue about it anymore. Turbine directed there community to a page within there own internal website which openly gave away our private account information to a 3rd party without our consent and without leaving the ddo website. That is shady regardless of how you want to spin it or deny it.

[Zachski]

Guys and Gals. You guys know that I am the first person to attack Turbine and waiting for them to make a mistake so I can point the finger. The question is that why is Yak comming to defend Turbine. Even though cigarettes and alcohol have a warning it's the person using the stuff to take responsibility for their own actions. Come on guys it's like blaming a pen for bad spelling. I also work in the technology field as most people don't understand it so they panic. It's not their fault just like i am not a doctor. If some one willing gave out their info, installed something and doesn't have any type of Anti-Virus then it's their own fault. It doesn't matter if it's Turbine endorsed, this is where common sense comes into play. Unless someone can provide to me a screen shot of their system being hacked and sending away your info this is utter and totally BULL ****!!!!

Because blaming the victim always works. Just ask politicians!

[GreyRogue]

To Mr EAB: that's one hell of a tinfoil hat. Where can I get one?


I will be conducting some extensive tests tonight. The plan:

1) Create a new dummy email account that has never been used before.
2) Create a F2P account with Turbine
3) Visit the Offer Wall with an HTTP debugger running
4) Start a thread to publish my results
5) Monitor email to that address for 48 hours

I took screenshots but deleted them because they had my info in them and I didn't feel like doctoring them up to remove the information. I will gladly post screenshots of my testing along the way tonight.

I think you should add a second dummy account that you don't use to create a Turbine account to control for random spam sent to any and all combinations of characters @gmail.com or whatever.

[Gol]

I think you should add a second dummy account that you don't use to create a Turbine account to control for random spam sent to any and all combinations of characters @gmail.com or whatever.
Can do.

[Hendrik]

To Mr EAB: that's one hell of a tinfoil hat. Where can I get one?


I will be conducting some extensive tests tonight. The plan:

1) Create a new dummy email account that has never been used before.
2) Create a F2P account with Turbine
3) Visit the Offer Wall with an HTTP debugger running
4) Start a thread to publish my results
5) Monitor email to that address for 48 hours

I took screenshots but deleted them because they had my info in them and I didn't feel like doctoring them up to remove the information. I will gladly post screenshots of my testing along the way tonight.

Please do Gol.

[rimble]

I'd suggest these 2 statements are conflicting, but that's my opinion.

Not to mention that's a really ****-poor attitude.

One, I'm tech savvy.

Two, therefore I know about these scams and avoid them.

Three, the non-savvy must suffer through these scams to learn about them, that's their problem.

I feel sorry for anyone getting technology 'help' from someone with an attitude like that.

[Talcyndl]

Guys and Gals. You guys know that I am the first person to attack Turbine and waiting for them to make a mistake so I can point the finger. The question is that why is Yak comming to defend Turbine. Even though cigarettes and alcohol have a warning it's the person using the stuff to take responsibility for their own actions. Come on guys it's like blaming a pen for bad spelling. I also work in the technology field as most people don't understand it so they panic. It's not their fault just like i am not a doctor. If some one willing gave out their info, installed something and doesn't have any type of Anti-Virus then it's their own fault. It doesn't matter if it's Turbine endorsed, this is where common sense comes into play. Unless someone can provide to me a screen shot of their system being hacked and sending away your info this is utter and totally BULL ****!!!!

Lol...did you miss the complaints about the fact that Turbine is transmitting your user name and email to SuperScammers when you browse to the Offer Wall page. Not when you fill out a survey, when you simply go the Turbine page with a listing of the available offers.

Now the people complaining about malware is a different subject...

[Sylvurdragon]

I wonder why someone hasn't created a fake ddo account to bring up a screenshot for this. I would but I'm currently on a work machine...

[rest]

Just spoke to account maintenance had my credit card removed from my account, it was painless and took 3 minutes. I pay yearly so I will add it back then(if I am still here), and then call to have it removed.

I'm pretty lazy. Would you care to share the contact info for account maintenance?

[chodelord]

It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

I'm willing to wager 6 million gold on Khyber, that is all the money I have, that Turbine has the capability to send your email address to superscam without you installing anything, just by you clicking a link. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, are you?

[Greydeath]

Yesterday marked the launch of a new way to get Turbine Points – the Offer Wall. The goal of the system is to provide a way for players to get Turbine Points in exchange for completing offers that they are interested in.

Part of our rollout for this program includes reviewing our filtering and publishing process. Clearly we allowed some questionable offers to get through in the first 24 hours of operation, which was not our intent.

In fact, we have clearly defined criteria for approving offers prior to their publication. This set of rules is designed to make sure that we deliver the best experience possible to players who participate in the Offer Wall program. Unfortunately, during the initial launch of the Offer Wall we did not do a thorough enough job of applying these rules to the launch offers. That has been corrected, and the Offer Wall now contains only a specific subset of offers that should provide the best quality experience to players.

Going forward we will work to apply our offer standard more thoroughly. In an effort to be as transparent as possible, we’re sharing our Offer Wall Rules with you. If you come across an offer that violates any of the rules please immediately report the offer to offeradmin@turbine.com. We will remove the offer from our system as quickly as possible.

Offer Wall Rules

Any offer to be published on the Offer Wall must meet the following criteria:


No unapproved required downloads – ever. This includes toolbars, helper applications, plug-ins, and ActiveX Controls. Player security is our top priority.
All offers must be certified spyware-clean and confirmed in internal testing against a cleanroom environment.
Surveys must be legit. No lengthy prequalification surveys followed by a disqualification and no points. If the pre-qualification is more than 20 questions for our test cases, we won’t host the survey.
Surveys must not ask for game account information or information which could be used to discover a player’s credentials.
No deceptive offers – i.e. take this IQ test and get the results via SMS (free IQ test, SMS costs $).
Partners must display a privacy policy in a public location that can be checked.
Offers must pay out as expected. All offers must deliver the points promised in a clear and straightforward fashion.


By enforcing this policy consistently we hope to provide the best possible opportunity for players while continuing to support emerging payment methods. Thanks for your feedback during this initial (and rocky!) launch!

too little - too late - typical turbine

[Patience]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

[donfilibuster]

I don't mind spam to get ddo points but there's currently no offers in the list for my country.

Edit: oh, just saw the above post that the offers might be down.

[broolthebeast]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

here's a splendid idea, how bout just get rid of it and come up with a non shaddy way of earning turbine points that actually relates to the game instead of outsourcing us to sleazy advertising companys without our permission.

[Lerincho]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

Excuse me, but THEY were the problem in the first place. What are THEY going to in order to compensate those that received viruses, malware?

[Pwesiela]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

Thank you.

Now, is this your response to the whole "clicking on the link sends out my account name" fiasco?

[Pwesiela]

Excuse me, but THEY were the problem in the first place. What are THEY going to in order to compensate those that received viruses, malware?

She means that Turbine is inquiring with the partners about it. Not that they're letting the partners do all the investigating.

At least, I hope that's what she means...

[KRaNiX1337]

Just checked myself, and was mad to find my username and email in the link generated just to view the wall. They are trying to obfuscate the details now, but its still being sent. Which I do not agree with.

Its not bull, the link from myddo.com to the external site is a url that actually has sensitive information appended to it. Thats why people are *****ing. I viewed the link, didnt bother checking it out much because it reaked of ****. But was not aware until now that Turbine sends that much information to the company just to view a list of offers.

Fail.


That is not possible unless someone installs some type of software, active or other controls. It's not possible for your info that Turbine has saved to magically be transmitted out there to scammers who are waiting.

If someone can't screen shot it and show proof it didn't happen.

[Patience]

Thank you.

Now, is this your response to the whole "clicking on the link sends out my account name" fiasco?

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!

[thatguy]

I try to stay away from these boards at all costs these days, however do you really think I am going anywhere near this site now? No way! :eek:

[Xanstrollinoax]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

Very smooth, replying 30 minutes after Gol posts that he's going to prove that our privacy policy is being infringed.

[Pwesiela]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!

I like to hear this. Thank you.

[Sylvurdragon]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!

Thank you Patience. This is definitely restoring my faith in the company. It wasn't as low as some of the others...but this is a good answer for now :)

[broolthebeast]

Thank you Patience. This is definitely restoring my faith in the company. It wasn't as low as some of the others...but this is a good answer for now :)

Dont worry when you've been around a lil longer it will be just as low as most of ours. ;)

[rest]

Very smooth, replying 30 minutes after Gol posts that he's going to prove that our privacy policy is being infringed.

Sometimes threats are what work.

[Belwaar]

I'd pay money to watch a stream of the DDO department in the Turbine office as they're all scrambling to form some sort of damage control. :p

I'm glad I never clicked on that ****, because as much as I love playing this game, I'd be done and canceled immediately. :mad:

[Anderei]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

just get rid of it all, some "clubs" that force you buy stuff once you made the error to make a contract with them in a weak moment and become a "member" are a bit more on the legal side than the pure scam and trojan things, yet it is also not something that you should point/advice your customers to also.

This whole thing makes the whole micropayments idea look shady. Can't we do micropayments without affiliating with all this kind of "easy deals"?

[Chromus]

we're taking the Offer Wall down.


That should have been the OP

[Memnir]

we're taking the Offer Wall down.Ding-dong! The Wicked Witch is dead!

And really - don't rush to put it back up either. In case you hadn't noticed, the reaction to the OffalWall has been rather negative.

[Lerincho]

Down with the wall! Down with the wall!

[rest]

That should have been the OP

No, they need a new announcement for this. With flashing neon letters.

And under that a huge "We're sorry. We ****ed up. Big time." not "We're sorry we don't have more information for you." That's a ****ing cop out.

[ddoplayer064]

Excuse me, but THEY were the problem in the first place. What are THEY going to in order to compensate those that received viruses, malware?

I played around yesterday with this stuff, and I can fairly safely say there were no viruses. But Ye Gods and Little Fishes, there were a ton of malware files dropped, 194 to be exact, most were multiple files from the same sources.

Oh, and to those getting WoW phishing email, it may not have anything to do with Turbines program as I got one a few days ago. Url substituted a "1" for an "l".

[Anderei]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!

:) thats good to hear! just keep it down and forget about this whole thing, so we can simply enjoy the game and buy turbine points when we want to.

[thatguy]

I'm glad I never clicked on that ****, because as much as I love playing this game, I'd be done and canceled immediately. :mad:

That makes two of us.

[Anderei]

Ding-dong! The Wicked Witch is dead!

And really - don't rush to put it back up either. In case you hadn't noticed, the reaction to the OffalWall has been rather negative.

I wish i could give you another +1 just for this word creation! I love 99% of your posts, the bar should be so green it should dazzle.

[Lerincho]

Ding-dong! The Wicked Witch is dead!

And really - don't rush to put it back up either. In case you hadn't noticed, the reaction to the OffalWall has been rather negative.

dang it, no XP panel to see who got the kill... quick check your combat logs to see who got the kill!

[broolthebeast]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!


Too bad your companys trust with its customers has already been smashed to pieces. You also state that your only taking the wall down till you have more answers which assumes you guys plan to put it back up. Again, not listening to the community at its finest, another reason why players are leaving.

[Pwesiela]

Ding-dong! The Wicked Witch is dead!

And really - don't rush to put it back up either. In case you hadn't noticed, the reaction to the OffalWall has been rather negative.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f345/mehn_deke/Paper.jpg

[Beherit_Baphomar]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

Isn't on YOUR end that this information is being sent? I mean it's a Superscum link, click on it and you say 'Hey PARTNERS, BFFs, here's who just clicked on that link'. Your bff's then say 'cool, here's a dime'

So why is it 'escalated' to them?

[Gol]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!
Well, glad to hear that much.

I was actually in the middle of testing some dummy accounts for security breaches when you pulled it down, though, so I won't have any valid test data until it comes back up.

[Chromus]

Isn't on YOUR end that this information is being sent? I mean it's a Superscum link, click on it and you say 'Hey PARTNERS, BFFs, here's who just clicked on that link'. Your bff's then say 'cool, here's a dime'

So why is it 'escalated' to them?


Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

[Noonie]

it's seems that results came quickly once the Gaming websites got wind of this story.

[broolthebeast]

Well, glad to hear that much.

I was actually in the middle of testing some dummy accounts for security breaches when you pulled it down, though, so I won't have any valid test data until it comes back up.

Thanks for all your hard work gol, hopefully it wont ever ****ing come back up so you dont have to do anything else related to it :D

Again, thanks for taking the time to warn people out there about shady practices by shady companies.

Ya funny once other websites got involved that things started happening... I think i personally put the story out on 4 or 5 mmo websites out there.

[Memnir]

it's seems that results came quickly once the Gaming websites got wind of this story.Got links? Love to see em.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

How do you have to raise it with them? Don't you know what info you are passing them? Don't tell me you let THEM code the connector to YOUR database and they are directly querying YOUR databasae to access OUR information. :eek:

Either you are coding the jumping off page and Turbine employees knows what is going out, or frankly Turbine was foolish and you have just compromised your entire database and all of our personal info. This would be a violation of privacy law in a number of countries (and if you don't believe privacy law can extend from other countries into the US ask Facebook why they had to change their security permissions that met US law but not Canadian)

Thank you at least for taking it down for now.

[DevKiller]

Thank you Patience. This is definitely restoring my faith in the company. It wasn't as low as some of the others...but this is a good answer for now :)

Wow I mean wow so you think your personal information being handed out without your permission is casuing you to lose just a little faith?

Honestly if we don't get a proper explination as to why this major malfunction happened and this is HUGE it is not some honest mistake, they promoted it and problems with it were posted since yesterday afternoon yet nothing was done about it until now. If the explination is as lame as the responses we have been getting so far then the average $75 a month I spend on this game is going elsewhere and if I can I will persue some sort of legal action.

Seriously it is MY private information, I read their privacy policy before I signed up.

This should of never happened and someone should be fired and be held responsible.

Maybe it is becasue I am Canadian that I take my privacy serious so I would like to say for the record I have lost more then a little faith to be sure.

[Noonie]

Got links? Love to see em.

yeah, there is a thread in the feedback forum.

[Sylvurdragon]

Well, glad to hear that much.

I was actually in the middle of testing some dummy accounts for security breaches when you pulled it down, though, so I won't have any valid test data until it comes back up.

Well, lets hope you never get to test it then ;)

[EAB]

Again this is all hear say from non-reliable sources. Show me proof such as screen shots. :)


Just checked myself, and was mad to find my username and email in the link generated just to view the wall. They are trying to obfuscate the details now, but its still being sent. Which I do not agree with.

Its not bull, the link from myddo.com to the external site is a url that actually has sensitive information appended to it. Thats why people are *****ing. I viewed the link, didnt bother checking it out much because it reaked of ****. But was not aware until now that Turbine sends that much information to the company just to view a list of offers.

Fail.

[broolthebeast]

Got links? Love to see em.

http://www.massively.com/2010/04/13/fans-have-strong-reaction-to-dungeons-and-dragons-online-offer-w/

http://slashdot.org/submission/1215022/DampD-Online-Launches-Super-Rewards-Based-Offers

http://slashdot.org/submission/1214950/Turbine-partners-with-notorious-SuperRewards

http://slashdot.org/submission/1214876/Dungeons-amp-Dragons-Online-partners-with-ScamWa

among others that i didnt save the link to.

[Gol]

Well, lets hope you never get to test it then ;)
I'm hoping :)

Here's the thread I started, though.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243122

[broolthebeast]

Again this is all hear say from non-reliable sources. Show me proof such as screen shots. :)

Well seeing as turbine took the offer wall down (for good reason) screen shot proof can no longer be provided.

[iamsamoth0]

I unwittingly clicked on the link yesterday, simply because I was curious. I don't dislike the idea of alternative methods for earning points. I would also participate if I liked the product(s). But, I do hope they will be thoroughly screened beforehand. I dislike the idea that this web entity now has just a tidbit more info on me. I definitely hate spam-mail. And would not appreciate Turbine giving away sensitive info about me. There is a certain level of trust to be expected.
I really hope this will be reconsidered, and the info leak closed. I really don't want to deal with some fraudulent actions, and me picking up the pieces.

And I agree they overlook the value of good in house testing(and testers). This 'promotion' could have been implemented considerably better. And where are the theme branded offers? WoTC, Dragon mag, Buy the 4.0 ruleset books and get xxx points, etc, ad nausem(sp?).

I will be keeping an eye out for increased spam mail....grrrr

[broolthebeast]

Im wondering what WOTC would think about what turbine has done to the dungeons and dragons brand name.

[taurean430]

We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!

Thank you for taking time to look into the issue. And thank you especially for taking it down in the meantime...

As a newer player, I found the lack of nefarious entities to be a huge positive. To the point where I feel comfortable allowing the kidlets to play this game. The high quality of your product should speak for you, not marketing agencies with questionable and barely legal practices. Sometimes, going for the biggest sources of revenue out there involve running the risk of irreparable damage to reputation. Please don't forget from where it was you started as you ascend to new heights.

And thanks again for proving that you and your peers are willing to listen.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

How do you have to raise it with them? Don't you know what info you are passing them? Don't tell me you let THEM code the connector to YOUR database and they are directly querying YOUR databasae to access OUR information. :eek:

Either you are coding the jumping off page and Turbine employees knows what is going out, or frankly Turbine was foolish and you have just compromised your entire database and all of our personal info. This would be a violation of privacy law in a number of countries (and if you don't believe privacy law can extend from other countries into the US ask Facebook why they had to change their security permissions that met US law but not Canadian)

Thank you at least for taking it down for now.

Once upon a time I'd chastise you for being so **** foolish to think such a rediculous thing....

...but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Ethias]

Thank you for responding to us and taking it down... honestly, I don't know that DDO really needs such a thing anyway.

[Scraap]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!

*eyes that $50 he was planning on blowing on TPs this week*

Getting there...

[Zachski]

Again this is all hear say from non-reliable sources. Show me proof such as screen shots. :)

You know, plugging your ears and singing "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is not a valid debate tactic.

[DrunkenBuddha]

Thank you. I for one am quite ticked off about what happened, but consider it good form that you are at least communicating with us. You're probably not really enjoying your job today, please continue to keep us updated. Communication would go a long way toward resolving this mess and restoring some semblance of faith in your company. Turbine has made a fun, engaging game - it has its faults (some of which are seemingly ignored), but it really dropped the ball on this one. Turbine can recover, but it has to do more than its previous standoffish approach to communication.

Apologize, perhaps even profusely, and I wager you'll surprise and even possibly win some of us back. Provided you've tested them extensively, now would be an excellent time to distract us, possibly with the early addition of half-orcs and *surprise* druids! :)

[cdbd3rd]

...Offer Wall down...


Ding-dong! The Wicked Witch is dead!

And really - don't rush to put it back up either. In case you hadn't noticed, the reaction to the OffalWall has been rather negative.

Hear, hear!

If there's no contract required time, then let us hope the SR dog is indeed kicked to the curb for good.

[Arkat]

Sorry Patience, the damage has been done already.

I'm not buying it.

[Pwesiela]

Apologize, perhaps even profusely, and I wager you'll surprise and even possibly win some of us back. Provided you've tested them extensively, now would be an excellent time to distract us, possibly with the early addition of half-orcs and *surprise* druids! :)

I'm thinkin update us on the status and stats of some PrE's...

[thatguy]

Super Anti Spyware (http://www.superantispyware.com/)
Microsoft Security Essentials (http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/)
MalwareBytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org/mbam.php)
HiJack This! (http://free.antivirus.com/hijackthis/)


This should be a good start.

[chester99]

How do you have to raise it with them? Don't you know what info you are passing them? Don't tell me you let THEM code the connector to YOUR database and they are directly querying YOUR databasae to access OUR information. :eek:

Either you are coding the jumping off page and Turbine employees knows what is going out, or frankly Turbine was foolish and you have just compromised your entire database and all of our personal info. This would be a violation of privacy law in a number of countries (and if you don't believe privacy law can extend from other countries into the US ask Facebook why they had to change their security permissions that met US law but not Canadian)

Thank you at least for taking it down for now.

So, given either scenario as you describe, it's probably safe to assume that our credit card information has also been comprimised. Home address, username, passwords.... playtimes, usage patterns, purchase history.

Awesome work.

Just a random thought. Next time you turbine boys and girls are sitting around the table, kicking around killer ideas of this nature, maybe run it by someone first.

"Are you asking me if you should in one fell swoop destroy your credibility as a responsibile company, eliminating any good will you've built up over the years and possibly leading to fraud including identity theft and large scale robbery? No, I don't think you should do that."

in retrospect, it really could have been that eazy.

[Autolycus]

Well, glad to hear that much.

I was actually in the middle of testing some dummy accounts for security breaches when you pulled it down, though, so I won't have any valid test data until it comes back up.

Thanks for doing this Gol! I wonder if one of the reasons they pulled it down was so you couldn't get any proof against them.

Even though I'm enough of a techie to not have gone anywhere near the link, I'm very concerned with this situation, especially since they have my credit card info on file for my VIP subscription. I'm seriously considering canceling and going F2P. This would of course require that I have them remove my info and not ever buying anything else from the store so I don't have to give them my cc info again.

Maybe Atari will come out with a D&D MMO...

Fix this Turbine.

[Daehawk]

now would be an excellent time to distract us

Hey what's that over there? I think Eladrin is coming up with a puzzle to distract people. =P

If Turbine wanted to give Free TP for surveys they could just make relevant surveys to the game and have it posted. Instead of going and sending it out to a select people like they currently do.

It will take time for people to trust the OffersWall if it is ever brought back up. If it is, then I think even more info will be needed for the players to see it as something they would visit and use. Not just "Hey you want free TP, well click here with our super awesome new friends"

Good idea to have more ways to get TP for people. Bad idea to use the more shady dealers.

[Talcyndl]

Isn't on YOUR end that this information is being sent? I mean it's a Superscum link, click on it and you say 'Hey PARTNERS, BFFs, here's who just clicked on that link'. Your bff's then say 'cool, here's a dime'

So why is it 'escalated' to them?


The Offer Wall was almost certainly prepackaged code from SuperScammers. Turbine plugged it into the "Offer Wall" page. They obviously didn't fully grasp what that code di - or at least the 'right' people didn't. That being the case "inquiring" with SuperScammers makes sense.

[picaisfun]

I never make purchases online without using a prepaid credit card. I never sign up for anything using my real email address. Making a new email address with Yahoo is free.





big up

[UnderwearModel]

I think this needs to be answered.

If you passed my forum login I am mildly miffed.

If you passed my game login information then my account is unsecure. Because this information is the access to my personal information in the Turbine Database.

[cdbd3rd]

Again this is all hear say from non-reliable sources. Show me proof such as screen shots. :)

As if screenshots would convince you apparently as they could be photoshopped.



You know, plugging your ears and singing "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is not a valid debate tactic.


If someone tells you you're blind as you're looking them in the eye, ignore them.

If a BUNCH of people suggest you may go blind if you look at something - just maybe they're on to something.

;)

[thatguy]

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/thatguy011071/train_wreck.jpg

[Patience]

So, given either scenario as you describe, it's probably safe to assume that our credit card information has also been comprimised. Home address, username, passwords.... playtimes, usage patterns, purchase history.

I want to be very, very clear that neither our account system nor our databases have been compromised in any way whatsoever and anyone who says they have is speculating. It's not true.

I also wanted to let everyone know that we'll continue to monitor for your feedback, but we won't have any further comment for now - we want to make sure we have complete, accurate information before we relay it back to you.

Meghan

[Beherit_Baphomar]

The Offer Wall was almost certainly prepackaged code from SuperScammers. Turbine plugged it into the "Offer Wall" page. They obviously didn't fully grasp what that code di - or at least the 'right' people didn't. That being the case "inquiring" with SuperScammers makes sense.

I can't comprehend how a company would just link to something an outfit such as Superscum told them to. No checking? No checking? Nothing?

I can't believe that. I can't believe that would be OK'd.

[picaisfun]

I want to be very, very clear that neither our account system nor our databases have been compromised in any way whatsoever and anyone who says they have is speculating. It's not true.

I also wanted to let everyone know that we'll continue to monitor for your feedback, but we won't have any further comment for now - we want to make sure we have complete, accurate information before we relay it back to you.

Meghan

Just a little patience yeah yeah

[UnderwearModel]

qoute from the FAQ on "awfulwall"

Q. What about my personal information? Is it safe?
A. We do not share any personal information with the offer vendor other than an anonymous unique ID and an e-mail address for your receipt to be sent to. This information is not transmitted unless you participate in the offer wall system. You may be (and probably will be) asked to provide additional information to complete an offer. Turbine has no way to control what happens with that information or how it is handled. We recommend that you use your discretion when signing up for offers. As always, protecting your privacy requires vigilance.

[Riggs]

I am glad I know enough about computers to know how little I know - and so trust as little as possible and just assume bad things when it comes to scammers, ads, links to untrusting sites.....

I saw the link to 'super offers' and never touched it knowing any scams, or malware present just from viewing a page would mess me up and I would have to get a buddy to actually fix anything.

So glad I never touched it.

This is further proof positive that Marketing rules Turbine - not people that know how things actually work. (out in the 'real internets')

And that guy EAB - maybe do whatever company you work for 'in the technology field' a favor and find a job better suited to you - one not involving giving people bad advice. Like saying gamers, many with little technical skill - need to provide some easy screenshot proving something that scammers make hard to find for programs virus/malware scanners, and pay huge $$ to make really hard to find even to veterans.

"Hey look I opened up a 1 page screenshot showing all the detailed security violations infecting my computer because it was that easy - boy those scammers must not be very good to just put all the details into one easy to access screen!" Cause yeah - if it was that easy why would companies and people spend millions of dollars buying and developing constantly updated programs to try and combat the problem - and often failing?

I mean, are you really that uninformed about the internet?

[thatguy]

I am glad I know enough about computers to know how little I know - and so trust as little as possible and just assume bad things when it comes to scammers, ads, links to untrusting sites.....

I saw the link to 'super offers' and never touched it knowing any scams, or malware present just from viewing a page would mess me up and I would have to get a buddy to actually fix anything.

So glad I never touched it.

This is further proof positive that Marketing rules Turbine - not people that know how things actually work. (out in the 'real internets')

And that guy EAB - maybe do whatever company you work for 'in the technology field' a favor and find a job better suited to you - one not involving giving people bad advice. Like saying gamers, many with little technical skill - need to provide some easy screenshot proving something that scammers make hard to find for programs virus/malware scanners, and pay huge $$ to make really hard to find even to veterans.

"Hey look I opened up a 1 page screenshot showing all the detailed security violations infecting my computer because it was that easy - boy those scammers must not be very good to just put all the details into one easy to access screen!" Cause yeah - if it was that easy why would companies and people spend millions of dollars buying and developing constantly updated programs to try and combat the problem - and often failing?

I mean, are you really that uninformed about the internet?

Don't ever trust that a company has your best interests in mind when it comes to your personal information. Ever.

[hcarr]

With the problem of sending out our account name and email accounts. many of us can take care of the email easy enough but we have no way to change our account name. Will a way to change the account names be added somehow so we can fully protect our accounts from hacking and not just hope that someone doesnt get lucky on a password. yes i know your database is safe but it doesnt mean you didnt expose our accounts by your actions.

[EAB]

***, dude you are not making any sense at all and have no idea what you are taking about. Another meaningless post with no proof to backup whatever it is that he is trying to say. Again you are just going by what a few people have said you have no clue what they are talking about and most likely had problems installing DDO in the first place. I will challenge anyone to debate this topic on my show, if you have the balls and able to form sentences. You know how to contact and find me. People get off your high horses and stop blaming Turbine for something that they did not cause.




I am glad I know enough about computers to know how little I know - and so trust as little as possible and just assume bad things when it comes to scammers, ads, links to untrusting sites.....

I saw the link to 'super offers' and never touched it knowing any scams, or malware present just from viewing a page would mess me up and I would have to get a buddy to actually fix anything.

So glad I never touched it.

This is further proof positive that Marketing rules Turbine - not people that know how things actually work. (out in the 'real internets')

And that guy EAB - maybe do whatever company you work for 'in the technology field' a favor and find a job better suited to you - one not involving giving people bad advice. Like saying gamers, many with little technical skill - need to provide some easy screenshot proving something that scammers make hard to find for programs virus/malware scanners, and pay huge $$ to make really hard to find even to veterans.

"Hey look I opened up a 1 page screenshot showing all the detailed security violations infecting my computer because it was that easy - boy those scammers must not be very good to just put all the details into one easy to access screen!" Cause yeah - if it was that easy why would companies and people spend millions of dollars buying and developing constantly updated programs to try and combat the problem - and often failing?

I mean, are you really that uninformed about the internet?

[broolthebeast]

don't Ever Trust That A Company Has Your Best Interests In Mind When It Comes To Your Personal Information. Ever.


ever

[picaisfun]

Really?? That black guys offer your?? What exactly are you trying to say?

this black guy just found out his house was worth a million plus. Anyone intrested?

[EAB]

No the problem is that you have no proof!!! If someone gets lucky and guess your password then it's your fault for having a non-secure password. On the way to shcool or work today, did you get a flat tire? Let's all blame Turbine for that too!!!


With the problem of sending out our account name and email accounts. many of us can take care of the email easy enough but we have no way to change our account name. Will a way to change the account names be added somehow so we can fully protect our accounts from hacking and not just hope that someone doesnt get lucky on a password. yes i know your database is safe but it doesnt mean you didnt expose our accounts by your actions.

[broolthebeast]

***, dude you are not making any sense at all and have no idea what you are taking about. Another meaningless post with no proof to backup whatever it is that he is trying to say. Again you are just going by what a few people have said you have no clue what they are talking about and most likely had problems installing DDO in the first place. I will challenge anyone to debate this topic on my show, if you have the balls and able to form sentences. You know how to contact and find me. People get off your high horses and stop blaming Turbine for something that they did not cause.

kind of funny you never responded in the posts showing the information is being passed by just viewing the offer wall. or responded to any of gol's work or anyone else who has been posting information about it.

[Zachski]

***, dude you are not making any sense at all and have no idea what you are taking about. Another meaningless post with no proof to backup whatever it is that he is trying to say. Again you are just going by what a few people have said you have no clue what they are talking about and most likely had problems installing DDO in the first place. I will challenge anyone to debate this topic on my show, if you have the balls and able to form sentences. You know how to contact and find me. People get off your high horses and stop blaming Turbine for something that they did not cause.


No one owes you so much as the time of day, especially when you start insulting the intelligence of EVERYONE here.

[Zachski]

No the problem is that you have no proof!!! If someone gets lucky and guess your password then it's your fault for having a non-secure password. On the way to shcool or work today, did you get a flat tire? Let's all blame Turbine for that too!!!

Proof has been provided. Again, plugging your ears and singing the "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" song is not a way to debate.

[Anderei]

No the problem is that you have no proof!!! If someone gets lucky and guess your password then it's your fault for having a non-secure password. On the way to shcool or work today, did you get a flat tire? Let's all blame Turbine for that too!!!

nope, the idea for good security is that the account name *AND* the password are secret.

Ask any Adminstrator that cares, the first thing you ever do on every server is turning of remote root access. A hacker has to guess your account name AND your password with no hints on either.

[knightgf]

While we're on the topic of this whole 'scam wall' here, do we have anonymous statistics on say, how many points total were won, or how many users tried and/or won points? Just for curiosity's sake, id like to know, but if you don't have that kind of info, I understand.

And just to give you guys a idea of how I did, I might as well for the lol's, the omg's, and the other offensive/non-offensive internet abbreviations. Thanks to my clever decisions and my knowledge of eliminating/countering harmful computer software, I managed to rack up ~355 Turbine Points. The exact count is uncertain because the scam wall is disabled, but the total amount of prizes I won was 5, of which the largest prize consisted of 189 Turbine Points. Of which all the prizes were also the 'free' prizes. I attempted ~10 more prizes, so I probably did approximately 15 prizes in total. The only category of surveys that I won in were all information filling surveys, no download this surveys, no 'what are you?' surveys, or any other surveys of known categories.

[Sirea]

***, dude you are not making any sense at all and have no idea what you are taking about. Another meaningless post with no proof to backup whatever it is that he is trying to say. Again you are just going by what a few people have said you have no clue what they are talking about and most likely had problems installing DDO in the first place. I will challenge anyone to debate this topic on my show, if you have the balls and able to form sentences. You know how to contact and find me. People get off your high horses and stop blaming Turbine for something that they did not cause.

ROFL, yeah OK dude, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Turbine should have known better to deal with SuperRewards. That they didn't have some inkling that something like this might possibly happen is pretty **** hilarious, and not in a funny way, either.

You have fun with your "show" and blowing your steam at anyone who will listen. Oh, go fill out some free online surveys for free stuff and play some Farmville too, have fun cleaning out your registry and email box.

[EAB]

I love how you keep saying there is proof, when no one has posted a screen shot to this thread. You know why they have not, because it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not that I am ignoring it, it's that I have coming ****ing sense and can spell bull **** when I see it!


Proof has been provided. Again, plugging your ears and singing the "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" song is not a way to debate.

[EAB]

Trust me I will have a lot of fun with this topic on my show! No people should have known better that nothing in this world is free, not a **** thing. A lot of people are just suckers and won't own up to it.


ROFL, yeah OK dude, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Turbine should have known better to deal with SuperRewards. That they didn't have some inkling that something like this might possibly happen is pretty **** hilarious, and not in a funny way, either.

You have fun with your "show" and blowing your steam at anyone who will listen. Oh, go fill out some free online surveys for free stuff and play some Farmville too, have fun cleaning out your registry and email box.

[Anderei]

I love how you keep saying there is proof, when no one has posted a screen shot to this thread. You know why they have not, because it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not that I am ignoring it, it's that I have coming ****ing sense and can spell bull **** when I see it!

Umm, why in your dream world do you think turbine did take the wall down?

*(hopefully for good)


The basic idea is that a person's sanity is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation marks they use

[broolthebeast]

I love how you keep saying there is proof, when no one has posted a screen shot to this thread. You know why they have not, because it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not that I am ignoring it, it's that I have coming ****ing sense and can spell bull **** when I see it!

actually your common sense is full of ****.. everyone that's got any freaking clue tested it out themselves and saw the results for themselves and if you had any common sense you would of done the same thing.

Then instead of clamoring for proof you would be concurring that your privacy has been breached.

Why should we post in this thread? All the information is already well documented in other threads, then again if you had any common sense you could find those threads yourself.

[Zachski]

I love how you keep saying there is proof, when no one has posted a screen shot to this thread. You know why they have not, because it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not that I am ignoring it, it's that I have coming ****ing sense and can spell bull **** when I see it!

You can't even spell "common sense".

And I love how you have this arbitrary requirement that it must be a screenshot, especially since screenshots CAN be editted.

Turbine themselves pulled the Wall down because of this very issue. If that's not enough proof for you, then nothing is.

[Zachski]

Trust me I will have a lot of fun with this topic on my show! No people should have known better that nothing in this world is free, not a **** thing. A lot of people are just suckers and won't own up to it.

Or you know you've lost and instead of admitting it, are trying to look "cool" and stuff.

Believe me, I know your kind. Not even screenshots would be proof to you. You'd claim that they were photoshopped.

Turbine has all but admitted that this is happening. Again, if this isn't proof for you, then all hope is lost for you.

[EAB]

Turbine tired to do something nice and everyone turned it into ****. Other then a screen show how else would you have proof? Just summon the magical spirit of DDO and they will tell us all....

[hcarr]

No the problem is that you have no proof!!! If someone gets lucky and guess your password then it's your fault for having a non-secure password. On the way to shcool or work today, did you get a flat tire? Let's all blame Turbine for that too!!!

well if they had to guess 2 feilds it is a whole lot harder to get in than if you have one and can just work on the other. was just asking? It has been shown they gave out account info by others just by clicking the link to the wall in toleros post.

[broolthebeast]

Turbine tired to do something nice and everyone turned it into ****. Other then a screen show how else would you have proof? Just summon the magical spirit of DDO and they will tell us all....

actually you could of done the research yourself but again you are failing to comprehend the whole situation and instead just putting others down and doing a ****** job at it. I mean my spelling sucks but you're spelling is absolutely epic fail. (and the forums have a auto spell checker how bout that..)

Needless to say. Turbine realized (or is stalling) that they ****ed up, and now there feeling the backlash from it... you sir on the other hand are just some ignorant dumbass.

[Zachski]

Turbine tired to do something nice and everyone turned it into ****. Other then a screen show how else would you have proof? Just summon the magical spirit of DDO and they will tell us all....

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Honestly, at this point, you're turning into a frustrated little brat, lol. It shows that you're not as confident of your situation as you claim you are...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Once upon a time I'd chastise you for being so **** foolish to think such a rediculous thing....

...but I wouldn't be surprised.

It does seem rediculous...and yet I don't know how else to read her comments. I certainly hope they aren't that foolish.

[Mockduck]

Taking bets! Which will we see first: the return of PvP leaderboards or the return of the Offer Wall? :)

[broolthebeast]

ooo

sadly id say the return of the offer wall.

even tho 95% of the community would gladly see a return of the pvp leader boards over the offer wall.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I want to be very, very clear that neither our account system nor our databases have been compromised in any way whatsoever and anyone who says they have is speculating. It's not true.

They what did you mean by you would have to ask them about the privacy concerns?

Do you or do you not know that you are passing are account name and email address every time we look at the wall?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Trust me I will have a lot of fun with this topic on my show! No people should have known better that nothing in this world is free, not a **** thing. A lot of people are just suckers and won't own up to it.

There information was compromised by going to a TURBINE page that had a foreign frame on it. TURBINE did this, it wasn't people who made a foolish surfing choice.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Turbine tired to do something nice and everyone turned it into ****. Other then a screen show how else would you have proof? Just summon the magical spirit of DDO and they will tell us all....

Anyone ever wonder if Turbine employees have "alternate" "non turbine" accounts they post from sometimes?

[Memnir]

I also wanted to let everyone know that we'll continue to monitor for your feedbackHonest feedback time:

Dear Turbine,

You are better then this. You don't need the Offer Wall to make people happy. In case you haven't noticed - things were going great forty eight hours ago. DDO had nothing but positive press, you'd won multiple awards by going F2P, and with some few exceptions - your players were happy lill gamers.

Ever since you put the Wall up - the forums have been resoundingly negative, you've gotten some rather bad press from some pretty influential gamer sites, and you have people either leaving or on the brink of. You've shattered your players' trust and confidence in you as a corporate entity that has our best interests in mind. People are really angry over this whole clusterfail.

Tweaking this Offer Wall won't change anything. It's reputation with your gaming populace is ruined beyond repair - and clinging to it is only doing likewise to your corporate reputation.

I quote a few snippets from Slashdot (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2893150&postcount=154):

"Aside from the reputation for scamming which comes hand in hand with this style of offer it's been discovered that Turbine sends your email address and account name to Super Rewards before you even sign up for anything.

---

Although this type of offer can be found in many Facebook based games, is this something we want to see in more mainstream MMOs?"

---

"The DDO announcement claims to have no support for the offers presented, but is still urging their users to participate in an extremely risky environment."

--
And from Massively:
"Giving personal information to an unknown is worrisome"


And I won't bother looking up quotes from the people here on the forums who actually play the game... you've got a whole collection of em in your Offer Wall Feedback Forum. Cliffs' Notes version: We don't like the Wall, and want it gone. We don't trust the Wall, and want it gone. We feel the Wall was one of the biggest missteps this game has ever undertaken, and we want it gone.


I will never trust the Wall enough to visit it again. Not after this "rocky" launch - which by the way is a colossal understatement. No matter what assurances you give us, it's dead to me. I will never need Turbine Points badly enough to even consider going to the Wall. Ever.

I will never trust Turbine as well as I did forty-eight hours ago. This endeavor has shown that your player base means nothing to you in the face of a quick buck. Your lack of apologizing for this whole fiasco says to me that you don't feel that you did anything wrong in putting our computers and personal information at risk by, and in your own admission, failing to vet the offers to the degree you should have. I don't trust that if the Wall returns that future slips in vetting sites won't happen again.


I have been a loyal player, if a sometimes critical one. But this has shaken my loyalty in fundamental ways. If it were not for the friendships I've made since the 05 beta - I would have headed for the door by now.

I hope you can fix this. An apology would be a great square-one. Never bringing the Wall back would be a great square-two. It'll take more than that for me to have my faith restored.... but as I said, those two steps are needed to be taken for me to even begin to do so.


Faithfully submitted,
Paul aka Memnir.

[Coldin]

I'm glad that Turbine is taking efforts to correct and verify the issues with the Offer Wall. However, I am sad that it took till it came to us consumers for the problems to be realized. I hope in the future, Turbine will do greater checking with whatever third parties before things like this can arise.

[Sylvurdragon]

Trust me I will have a lot of fun with this topic on my show! No people should have known better that nothing in this world is free, not a **** thing. A lot of people are just suckers and won't own up to it.

lol Yak I'm really looking forward to checking out this weeks show. Should really be fun :)

[cdbd3rd]

Honest feedback time:

Dear Turbine,

You are better then this. You don't need the Offer Wall to make people happy. In case you haven't noticed - things were going great forty eight hours ago. DDO had nothing but positive press, you'd won multiple awards by going F2P, and with some few exceptions - your players were happy lill gamers.

Ever since you put the Wall up - the forums have been resoundingly negative, you've gotten some rather bad press from some pretty influential gamer sites, and you have people either leaving or on the brink of. You've shattered your players' trust and confidence in you as a corporate entity that has our best interests in mind. People are really angry over this whole clusterfail.

Tweaking this Offer Wall won't change anything. It's reputation with your gaming populace is ruined beyond repair - and clinging to it is only doing likewise to your corporate reputation.

I quote a few snippets from Slashdot (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2893150&postcount=154):

"Aside from the reputation for scamming which comes hand in hand with this style of offer it's been discovered that Turbine sends your email address and account name to Super Rewards before you even sign up for anything.

---

Although this type of offer can be found in many Facebook based games, is this something we want to see in more mainstream MMOs?"

---

"The DDO announcement claims to have no support for the offers presented, but is still urging their users to participate in an extremely risky environment."

--
And from Massively:
"Giving personal information to an unknown is worrisome"


And I won't bother looking up quotes from the people here on the forums who actually play the game... you've got a whole collection of em in your Offer Wall Feedback Forum. Cliffs' Notes version: We don't like the Wall, and want it gone. We don't trust the Wall, and want it gone. We feel the Wall was one of the biggest missteps this game has ever undertaken, and we want it gone.


I will never trust the Wall enough to visit it again. Not after this "rocky" launch - which by the way is a colossal understatement. No matter what assurances you give us, it's dead to me. I will never need Turbine Points badly enough to even consider going to the Wall. Ever.

I will never trust Turbine as well as I did forty-eight hours ago. This endeavor has shown that your player base means nothing to you in the face of a quick buck. Your lack of apologizing for this whole fiasco says to me that you don't feel that you did anything wrong in putting our computers and personal information at risk by, and in your own admission, failing to vet the offers to the degree you should have. I don't trust that if the Wall returns that future slips in vetting sites won't happen again.


I have been a loyal player, if a sometimes critical one. But this has shaken my loyalty in fundamental ways. If it were not for the friendships I've made since the 05 beta - I would have headed for the door by now.

I hope you can fix this. An apology would be a great square-one. Never bringing the Wall back would be a great square-two. It'll take more than that for me to have my faith restored.... but as I said, those two steps are needed to be taken for me to even begin to do so.


Faithfully submitted,
Paul aka Memnir.


Yeah, I agree - it woulda been hard to find a pic that said that as well as words.

This once.


:) +

[Impaqt]

Iwe want to make sure we have complete, accurate information before we relay it back to you.

Meghan

Shouldn't you of had "Complete, accurate information" on how the system worked before you signed up for it?

[broolthebeast]

Honest feedback time:

Dear Turbine,

You are better then this. You don't need the Offer Wall to make people happy. In case you haven't noticed - things were going great forty eight hours ago. DDO had nothing but positive press, you'd won multiple awards by going F2P, and with some few exceptions - your players were happy lill gamers.

Ever since you put the Wall up - the forums have been resoundingly negative, you've gotten some rather bad press from some pretty influential gamer sites, and you have people either leaving or on the brink of. You've shattered your players' trust and confidence in you as a corporate entity that has our best interests in mind. People are really angry over this whole clusterfail.

Tweaking this Offer Wall won't change anything. It's reputation with your gaming populace is ruined beyond repair - and clinging to it is only doing likewise to your corporate reputation.

I quote a few snippets from Slashdot (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2893150&postcount=154):

"Aside from the reputation for scamming which comes hand in hand with this style of offer it's been discovered that Turbine sends your email address and account name to Super Rewards before you even sign up for anything.

---

Although this type of offer can be found in many Facebook based games, is this something we want to see in more mainstream MMOs?"

---

"The DDO announcement claims to have no support for the offers presented, but is still urging their users to participate in an extremely risky environment."

--
And from Massively:
"Giving personal information to an unknown is worrisome"


And I won't bother looking up quotes from the people here on the forums who actually play the game... you've got a whole collection of em in your Offer Wall Feedback Forum. Cliffs' Notes version: We don't like the Wall, and want it gone. We don't trust the Wall, and want it gone. We feel the Wall was one of the biggest missteps this game has ever undertaken, and we want it gone.


I will never trust the Wall enough to visit it again. Not after this "rocky" launch - which by the way is a colossal understatement. No matter what assurances you give us, it's dead to me. I will never need Turbine Points badly enough to even consider going to the Wall. Ever.

I will never trust Turbine as well as I did forty-eight hours ago. This endeavor has shown that your player base means nothing to you in the face of a quick buck. Your lack of apologizing for this whole fiasco says to me that you don't feel that you did anything wrong in putting our computers and personal information at risk by, and in your own admission, failing to vet the offers to the degree you should have. I don't trust that if the Wall returns that future slips in vetting sites won't happen again.


I have been a loyal player, if a sometimes critical one. But this has shaken my loyalty in fundamental ways. If it were not for the friendships I've made since the 05 beta - I would have headed for the door by now.

I hope you can fix this. An apology would be a great square-one. Never bringing the Wall back would be a great square-two. It'll take more than that for me to have my faith restored.... but as I said, those two steps are needed to be taken for me to even begin to do so.


Faithfully submitted,
Paul aka Memnir.

except for a few minor word changes, couldnt of said it better myself..

(word changes : I've been here since launch not the beta w/ breaks of course and well I've already stopped playing, and I stopped trusting turbine a long long time ago.

[Anderei]

Honest feedback time:

Dear Turbine,

You are better then this. You don't need the Offer Wall to make people happy. In case you haven't noticed - things were going great forty eight hours ago. DDO had nothing but positive press, you'd won multiple awards by going F2P, and with some few exceptions - your players were happy lill gamers.

Ever since you put the Wall up - the forums have been resoundingly negative, you've gotten some rather bad press from some pretty influential gamer sites, and you have people either leaving or on the brink of. You've shattered your players' trust and confidence in you as a corporate entity that has our best interests in mind. People are really angry over this whole clusterfail.

Tweaking this Offer Wall won't change anything. It's reputation with your gaming populace is ruined beyond repair - and clinging to it is only doing likewise to your corporate reputation.

I quote a few snippets from Slashdot (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2893150&postcount=154):

"Aside from the reputation for scamming which comes hand in hand with this style of offer it's been discovered that Turbine sends your email address and account name to Super Rewards before you even sign up for anything.

---

Although this type of offer can be found in many Facebook based games, is this something we want to see in more mainstream MMOs?"

---

"The DDO announcement claims to have no support for the offers presented, but is still urging their users to participate in an extremely risky environment."

--
And from Massively:
"Giving personal information to an unknown is worrisome"


And I won't bother looking up quotes from the people here on the forums who actually play the game... you've got a whole collection of em in your Offer Wall Feedback Forum. Cliffs' Notes version: We don't like the Wall, and want it gone. We don't trust the Wall, and want it gone. We feel the Wall was one of the biggest missteps this game has ever undertaken, and we want it gone.


I will never trust the Wall enough to visit it again. Not after this "rocky" launch - which by the way is a colossal understatement. No matter what assurances you give us, it's dead to me. I will never need Turbine Points badly enough to even consider going to the Wall. Ever.

I will never trust Turbine as well as I did forty-eight hours ago. This endeavor has shown that your player base means nothing to you in the face of a quick buck. Your lack of apologizing for this whole fiasco says to me that you don't feel that you did anything wrong in putting our computers and personal information at risk by, and in your own admission, failing to vet the offers to the degree you should have. I don't trust that if the Wall returns that future slips in vetting sites won't happen again.


I have been a loyal player, if a sometimes critical one. But this has shaken my loyalty in fundamental ways. If it were not for the friendships I've made since the 05 beta - I would have headed for the door by now.

I hope you can fix this. An apology would be a great square-one. Never bringing the Wall back would be a great square-two. It'll take more than that for me to have my faith restored.... but as I said, those two steps are needed to be taken for me to even begin to do so.


Faithfully submitted,
Paul aka Memnir.

Quoted for agreeing. Just Say No To The Wall! Foreverever!

[broolthebeast]

Shouldn't you of had "Complete, accurate information" on how the system worked before you signed up for it?

OH heavens now, that would require responsibility and well using there heads which we all know they don't.

[Lifespawn]

OH heavens now, that would require responsibility and well using there heads which we all know they don't.

also would have lost them some cash yay the almighty buck rides again.

[union1st]

I squelched (siteblocked) the getpoints page. I had worried that I might accidentally go there while logged in, and didn't wish to experience forced participation via spam.

[Lorichie]

I played around yesterday with this stuff, and I can fairly safely say there were no viruses. But Ye Gods and Little Fishes, there were a ton of malware files dropped, 194 to be exact, most were multiple files from the same sources.

Oh, and to those getting WoW phishing email, it may not have anything to do with Turbines program as I got one a few days ago. Url substituted a "1" for an "l".

Ive also gotten a half dozen of these over the last week, prior to the appearance of the wall. As well as one's for Aion. Funny thing was, i made a trial account to Wow about six years ago, but never played and all i ever did for Aion was beta. All they are doing is mass emailing hoping to snag an actaul customer, thats happening regardless of the wall, tho the wall surely will intensify it.

R

[Ryan1616]

well its really unfortunate to see the DDO doesnt follow the same Need before Greed Roles as its players often do.

I for one am disappointed and understand why alot of the staple players and what were thought to be as "lifers" are all quitting.

IF Turbine was a player in a raid, they would be that guy who tries to have a bidding war to sell his loot. And all the people who are quitting are the ones who blacklisted them so they dont have to put up with this stuff....

Need to keep your customers happy to keep your fat paychecks of greed rolling in.

Fail again.... Soon anyone worth while will be gone and they will be full of members who dont stick around.... The gamers who play for a month or two then quit because there is no challenge in BUYING your way to the top.

[Magusrex777]

Yesterday marked the launch of a new way to get Turbine Points – the Offer Wall. The goal of the system is to provide a way for players to get Turbine Points in exchange for completing offers that they are interested in.

Part of our rollout for this program includes reviewing our filtering and publishing process. Clearly we allowed some questionable offers to get through in the first 24 hours of operation, which was not our intent.

In fact, we have clearly defined criteria for approving offers prior to their publication. This set of rules is designed to make sure that we deliver the best experience possible to players who participate in the Offer Wall program. Unfortunately, during the initial launch of the Offer Wall we did not do a thorough enough job of applying these rules to the launch offers. That has been corrected, and the Offer Wall now contains only a specific subset of offers that should provide the best quality experience to players.

Going forward we will work to apply our offer standard more thoroughly. In an effort to be as transparent as possible, we’re sharing our Offer Wall Rules with you. If you come across an offer that violates any of the rules please immediately report the offer to offeradmin@turbine.com. We will remove the offer from our system as quickly as possible.

Offer Wall Rules

Any offer to be published on the Offer Wall must meet the following criteria:


No unapproved required downloads – ever. This includes toolbars, helper applications, plug-ins, and ActiveX Controls. Player security is our top priority.
All offers must be certified spyware-clean and confirmed in internal testing against a cleanroom environment.
Surveys must be legit. No lengthy prequalification surveys followed by a disqualification and no points. If the pre-qualification is more than 20 questions for our test cases, we won’t host the survey.
Surveys must not ask for game account information or information which could be used to discover a player’s credentials.
No deceptive offers – i.e. take this IQ test and get the results via SMS (free IQ test, SMS costs $).
Partners must display a privacy policy in a public location that can be checked.
Offers must pay out as expected. All offers must deliver the points promised in a clear and straightforward fashion.


By enforcing this policy consistently we hope to provide the best possible opportunity for players while continuing to support emerging payment methods. Thanks for your feedback during this initial (and rocky!) launch!

------------------------------------------------------
Updated: We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!


We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information!


That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!


I want to be very, very clear that neither our account system nor our databases have been compromised in any way whatsoever and anyone who says they have is speculating. It's not true.

I also wanted to let everyone know that we'll continue to monitor for your feedback, but we won't have any further comment for now - we want to make sure we have complete, accurate information before we relay it back to you.

Meghan

Thank You Meghan,

I appreciate your efforts. I know a number of people have said "too little, too late" I disagree. I feel that were many posts today by Turbine. You are clearly working to address our concerns. You do in fact listen to our feedback. I do wish this never happened but everyone makes mistakes. I did hook up an old computer to the internet and I did test two offers, Disney and Discover used bogus info and new hotmail. I could not see the wall sending out my info nor did my PC suffer any registry issues, malware or spyware problems. I used Zone Alarm, Kapersky and Symantec. I am not saying there are not issues, I just did not find any in those 2. Did anyone else confirm account name and email being sent out?

[UnderwearModel]

That is completely unacceptable.

Luckily, I only looked at the page and clicked nothing. Realizing I could buy Turbine points cheaper than anything offered. But still, you sent my billing account name and my email address.

You clearly stated it would be an anonymous ID+email address, I am not worried about spam in my email account.

To quote
"Q. What about my personal information? Is it safe?
A. We do not share any personal information with the offer vendor other than an anonymous unique ID and an e-mail address for your receipt to be sent to. This information is not transmitted unless you participate in the offer wall system. You may be (and probably will be) asked to provide additional information to complete an offer. Turbine has no way to control what happens with that information or how it is handled. We recommend that you use your discretion when signing up for offers. As always, protecting your privacy requires vigilance. "



I do consider my BILLING account name being given out as an egregious error in judgement on Turbine's Part.

[Zachski]

Thank You Meghan,

I appreciate your efforts. I know a number of people have said "too little, too late" I disagree. I feel that were many posts today by Turbine. You are clearly working to address our concerns. You do in fact listen to our feedback. I do wish this never happened but everyone makes mistakes. I did hook up an old computer to the internet and I did test two offers, Disney and Discover used bogus info and new hotmail. I could not see the wall sending out my info nor did my PC suffer any registry issues, malware or spyware problems. I used Zone Alarm, Kapersky and Symantec. I am not saying there are not issues, I just did not find any in those 2. Did anyone else confirm account name and email being sent out?

I actually have to agree.

It would've been "Too Little Too late", though, if Patience hadn't started making more posts to address these issues, and to let us know that the Wall had been taken down.

[Anthem]

I squelched (siteblocked) the getpoints page. I had worried that I might accidentally go there while logged in, and didn't wish to experience forced participation via spam.

A good idea, but too late for many: A slashdotter makes an important point for browsers that pre-fetch; anybody with a pre-fetching browser (FF included) who was logged in when they saw the link probably "visited" the page without ever clicking on it!


The post says straight up that simply viewing the target Offer Wall sends your info out.

Did these idiot devs not even consider that Firefox does URL prefetching and they are, due to the prefetching of their sell-my-information-to-the-devil-wall page, selling information of people who didn't even view the wall but simply viewed a page that links to their offer wall?

This is shady at best and criminal at worst.

[Kahuna68]

***, dude you are not making any sense at all and have no idea what you are taking about. Another meaningless post with no proof to backup whatever it is that he is trying to say. Again you are just going by what a few people have said you have no clue what they are talking about and most likely had problems installing DDO in the first place. I will challenge anyone to debate this topic on my show, if you have the balls and able to form sentences. You know how to contact and find me. People get off your high horses and stop blaming Turbine for something that they did not cause.

As you are demanding proof, please read the thread Gol has started.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243122

Turbine provided the means to contact SuperRewards via a link in the forums and on the offer page. The mere usage of that link provided SuperRewards with private information. No prior consent had been given to allow Turbine the right to distribute that information. As Turbine provided the link and thus gave SuperRewards the means to access private information, how is Turbine not at fault here?

You now have your proof and it was presented in 'sentences'. I now have a request of you. Please stop addressing people in this thread in a derogatory manner. The folks here have simply been voicing their concerns. If you disagree with what is being said, that's fine. However you don't have the right to belittle their concerns and act as if they are not valid.

I am very glad I ignored Turbine's latest gimmick and never even looked at their Offer Wall.

[broolthebeast]

As you are demanding proof, please read the thread Gol has started.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243122

Turbine provided the means to contact SuperRewards via a link in the forums and on the offer page. The mere usage of that link provided SuperRewards with private information. No prior consent had been given to allow Turbine the right to distribute that information. As Turbine provided the link and thus gave SuperRewards the means to access private information, how is Turbine not at fault here?

You now have your proof and it was presented in 'sentences'. I now have a request of you. Please stop addressing people in this thread in a derogatory manner. The folks here have simply been voicing their concerns. If you disagree with what is being said, that's fine. However you don't have the right to belittle their concerns and act as if they are not valid.

I am very glad I ignored Turbine's latest gimmick and never even looked at their Offer Wall.

unfortunatly for some people it might not even of mattered if they looked at the wall or not according to some of the info coming out of slashdot about prefetching.

[Oreg]

unfortunatly for some people it might not even of mattered if they looked at the wall or not according to some of the info coming out of slashdot about prefetching.

Having just watched Clash of the Titans last week I took the precaution of only looking at the wall through my wife's compact mirror which reflected the wall's link on my pc. By doing so I think I avoided the worst of the prefetching effects.

[broolthebeast]

Having just watched Clash of the Titans last week I took the precaution of only looking at the wall through my wife's compact mirror which reflected the wall's link on my pc. By doing so I think I avoided the worst of the prefetching effects.

awesome sauce, I have no other words to describe it :D

[Jasimine]

That is the only answer I have for you at this time - until we have more information (and we're actively pursuing it), we're taking the Offer Wall down. I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete than that yet!

I actually cheered when I read this. Sincerely cheered to the point that even my neighbors where looking out their windows to see who was assaulting the nice quiet woman across the way.

Please, for the love of all that is holy and technological, keep it down. Restore our faith and just keep it down. Then issue an apology from the corporate dren eater who thought this wonderful thing up. Do those two things and you might start seeing alot of the faith, not all but a substantial portion, restored in this company.



dang it, no XP panel to see who got the kill... quick check your combat logs to see who got the kill!


I'd have to say Gol gets the kill. The man did more than most of us who were working on debunking the wall and providing the evedence needed to show Turbine what a pile of dren they stepped in here. Gol, thanks alot man I hope you live long and prosper.



Oh by the by, was my Epic +6 kukri of greater evil corperation bane in the chest after we beat the wall down?

[hebularks]

subscription cancelled at least for a few days .

That was way over the top for my taste.

[Clay]

here Is Turbine's Problem:

You Already Gave Out 100s If Not 1000s Of Email Address and Ddo Account Names Yet You Think That The Ability To Have Us Help You Filter The Future Offers Is Going To Make One Lick Of Difference? You Literally Could Have At Least 100 People Who Are Screwed Because Some Virus Is Now Attacking The Computer System. That Is The Same System They Play Ddo On And Must Now Go Have Repaired, Which Means They Are No Longer In Ddo For A Mininum Time, If They Chose To Come Back At All. Trace Programs Are Extremely Easy To Determine What Was At Fault For The Virus, And The Fact That Turbine Fully Endorsed All The Ads On The Offer Wall At The Time The Offer Wall Went Active; Therefore, Turbine Has Liability Just As Much As The One Who Made The Offer The Virus Came From.

Only After 100s Of Responses From Your Client Base, With Handfuls Showing In Depth How Much You Have Violated Your Own End User Liscence Agreement; Did You Think About Filtering Those Offers. What Does This Do For The Person Who Was Already Effected By This Absolutely Stupid Lapse Of Judgement By The Decision Makers? Nothing.

Word

[broolthebeast]

Oh by the by, was my Epic +6 kukri of greater evil corperation bane in the chest after we beat the wall down?

No but your shield of faith +5 potions were. ;)

[Gol]

I'd have to say Gol gets the kill. The man did more than most of us who were working on debunking the wall and providing the evedence needed to show Turbine what a pile of dren they stepped in here. Gol, thanks alot man I hope you live long and prosper.

To you and all the other countless props / rep I've gotten, much thanks.

I'm leaving my rep bar off, but it is quite amusing to see this:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/verbal_ddo/rep4.png

[broolthebeast]

To you and all the other countless props / rep I've gotten, much thanks.

I'm leaving my rep bar off, but it is quite amusing to see this:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/verbal_ddo/rep4.png

you know i was chuckling to myself a few moments ago about what your rep screen must of looked like for a couple hours there during the mid day.

Probably one of the only scenario's where the rep system was doing good. ;D

[smatt]

To you and all the other countless props / rep I've gotten, much thanks.

I'm leaving my rep bar off, but it is quite amusing to see this:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/verbal_ddo/rep4.png

****.... All the neg rep I've given you in the past is pushed right off :eek::D

[Clay]

Thank You Meghan,

I appreciate your efforts. I know a number of people have said "too little, too late" I disagree. I feel that were many posts today by Turbine. You are clearly working to address our concerns. You do in fact listen to our feedback. I do wish this never happened but everyone makes mistakes. I did hook up an old computer to the internet and I did test two offers, Disney and Discover used bogus info and new hotmail. I could not see the wall sending out my info nor did my PC suffer any registry issues, malware or spyware problems. I used Zone Alarm, Kapersky and Symantec. I am not saying there are not issues, I just did not find any in those 2. Did anyone else confirm account name and email being sent out?

Let me see if I can put this another way:

You rent an apartment for a set amount of time. You are assured by the landlord that the building is secure, and the convenient back-door garbage chute is secure, it is one way only and in no circumstance will garbage make it up the chute... You put your valuables in the house. After you use the garbage chute you lock the doors, check the windows and go to bed. In the morning you realize that valuables are missing from your apartment, including your identity as well as your apartment being filled with garbage. You justifiably complain to management. They tell you, oops sorry we didn't properly vet the company we allowed access through our security into your homes. We will listen to your feedback and discontinue this service.

How satisfied do you feel with that customer "service?"

[Oreg]

Let me see if I can put this another way:

You rent an apartment for a set amount of time. You are assured by the landlord that the building is secure, and the convenient back-door garbage chute is secure, it is one way only and in no circumstance will garbage make it up the chute... You put your valuables in the house. After you use the garbage chute you lock the doors, check the windows and go to bed. In the morning you realize that valuables are missing from your apartment, including your identity as well as your apartment being filled with garbage. You justifiably complain to management. They tell you, oops sorry we didn't properly vet the company we allowed access through our security into your homes. We will listen to your feedback and discontinue this service.

How satisfied do you feel with that customer "service?"

How exactly did the garbage get up the chute and into the apartment? Did the identity thief access the apartment via the chute and therefore drag the garbage up with him? I think I remember seeing that scene in the 1960s version of The Blob but I can't remember. Thanks in advance for clarifying.

[Clay]

Oreg thank you! I know I had seen it before but couldn't remember!

i just find it funny that there is a post praising a company for stopping and action that was a violation of their own promises to their customer base as an example of customer service.

This whole fiasco is an epic fail and no reputable company should offer their customers up as lambs for the slaughter. But I guess Turbine's Customer Service is at such a point where absolutely anything remotely positive is praise worthy?

[Oreg]

Oreg thank you! I know I had seen it before but couldn't remember!

LOL. Feels good to laugh after being ****ed off at Turbine all day.....

[akla_thornfist]

To you and all the other countless props / rep I've gotten, much thanks.

I'm leaving my rep bar off, but it is quite amusing to see this:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/verbal_ddo/rep4.png

you earned everyone of them, seams alot of folks didnt pay attention to your first post on the topic yesterday. shame on you turbine for not making absolutly sure that this new program was safe for your paying customers.

[Greyhawk6]

Just for once, being a total slacker and not bothering to read the forums as often as I should actually paid off this time. All this debacle happened when I was either asleep or drunk or both :D

Turbine looks like some wide eyed innocent in one of those nursery rhymes where they get eaten or turned into worms by the "stranger mummy said not to talk to". These scam companies are through-and-through shams. Making a deal with them is like dealing with fresh sewage.

Whoever made this awesome decision at the top needs to be taken from that place, sat down, be forced to read Gol's thread then given a three hour lecture in "the bad men in the internet".

I dont care what Turbine say, once trust is broken it can never be regained in the same measure afterward. Anyone who participates in this offer wall in any form is a fool. Gold sites have been and always will be nothing but scams. No responsible company would ever make a deal with them.

[toughguyjoe]

I think i'd like to go on EAB's show. I'm going to look into it.

[EazyWeazy]

Honest feedback time:

Dear Turbine,

You are better then this. You don't need the Offer Wall to make people happy. In case you haven't noticed - things were going great forty eight hours ago. DDO had nothing but positive press, you'd won multiple awards by going F2P, and with some few exceptions - your players were happy lill gamers.

Ever since you put the Wall up - the forums have been resoundingly negative, you've gotten some rather bad press from some pretty influential gamer sites, and you have people either leaving or on the brink of. You've shattered your players' trust and confidence in you as a corporate entity that has our best interests in mind. People are really angry over this whole clusterfail.

Tweaking this Offer Wall won't change anything. It's reputation with your gaming populace is ruined beyond repair - and clinging to it is only doing likewise to your corporate reputation.

I quote a few snippets from Slashdot (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2893150&postcount=154):

"Aside from the reputation for scamming which comes hand in hand with this style of offer it's been discovered that Turbine sends your email address and account name to Super Rewards before you even sign up for anything.

---

Although this type of offer can be found in many Facebook based games, is this something we want to see in more mainstream MMOs?"

---

"The DDO announcement claims to have no support for the offers presented, but is still urging their users to participate in an extremely risky environment."

--
And from Massively:
"Giving personal information to an unknown is worrisome"


And I won't bother looking up quotes from the people here on the forums who actually play the game... you've got a whole collection of em in your Offer Wall Feedback Forum. Cliffs' Notes version: We don't like the Wall, and want it gone. We don't trust the Wall, and want it gone. We feel the Wall was one of the biggest missteps this game has ever undertaken, and we want it gone.


I will never trust the Wall enough to visit it again. Not after this "rocky" launch - which by the way is a colossal understatement. No matter what assurances you give us, it's dead to me. I will never need Turbine Points badly enough to even consider going to the Wall. Ever.

I will never trust Turbine as well as I did forty-eight hours ago. This endeavor has shown that your player base means nothing to you in the face of a quick buck. Your lack of apologizing for this whole fiasco says to me that you don't feel that you did anything wrong in putting our computers and personal information at risk by, and in your own admission, failing to vet the offers to the degree you should have. I don't trust that if the Wall returns that future slips in vetting sites won't happen again.


I have been a loyal player, if a sometimes critical one. But this has shaken my loyalty in fundamental ways. If it were not for the friendships I've made since the 05 beta - I would have headed for the door by now.

I hope you can fix this. An apology would be a great square-one. Never bringing the Wall back would be a great square-two. It'll take more than that for me to have my faith restored.... but as I said, those two steps are needed to be taken for me to even begin to do so.


Faithfully submitted,
Paul aka Memnir.

I'm not as eloquent as Mr. Memnir here. I'll simply say, **** the wall!!! :mad:

[Oreg]

I think i'd like to go on EAB's show. I'm going to look into it.

Do it. I can't imagine it would take a whole lot of effort to reveal him for the ignoramus that he is. As if he didn't already do that himself today.

[Clay]

Honest feedback time:

Dear Turbine,

You are better then this. You don't need the Offer Wall to make people happy. In case you haven't noticed - things were going great forty eight hours ago. DDO had nothing but positive press, you'd won multiple awards by going F2P, and with some few exceptions - your players were happy lill gamers.

Ever since you put the Wall up - the forums have been resoundingly negative, you've gotten some rather bad press from some pretty influential gamer sites, and you have people either leaving or on the brink of. You've shattered your players' trust and confidence in you as a corporate entity that has our best interests in mind. People are really angry over this whole clusterfail.

Tweaking this Offer Wall won't change anything. It's reputation with your gaming populace is ruined beyond repair - and clinging to it is only doing likewise to your corporate reputation.

I quote a few snippets from Slashdot (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2893150&postcount=154):

"Aside from the reputation for scamming which comes hand in hand with this style of offer it's been discovered that Turbine sends your email address and account name to Super Rewards before you even sign up for anything.

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Although this type of offer can be found in many Facebook based games, is this something we want to see in more mainstream MMOs?"

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"The DDO announcement claims to have no support for the offers presented, but is still urging their users to participate in an extremely risky environment."

--
And from Massively:
"Giving personal information to an unknown is worrisome"


And I won't bother looking up quotes from the people here on the forums who actually play the game... you've got a whole collection of em in your Offer Wall Feedback Forum. Cliffs' Notes version: We don't like the Wall, and want it gone. We don't trust the Wall, and want it gone. We feel the Wall was one of the biggest missteps this game has ever undertaken, and we want it gone.


I will never trust the Wall enough to visit it again. Not after this "rocky" launch - which by the way is a colossal understatement. No matter what assurances you give us, it's dead to me. I will never need Turbine Points badly enough to even consider going to the Wall. Ever.

I will never trust Turbine as well as I did forty-eight hours ago. This endeavor has shown that your player base means nothing to you in the face of a quick buck. Your lack of apologizing for this whole fiasco says to me that you don't feel that you did anything wrong in putting our computers and personal information at risk by, and in your own admission, failing to vet the offers to the degree you should have. I don't trust that if the Wall returns that future slips in vetting sites won't happen again.


I have been a loyal player, if a sometimes critical one. But this has shaken my loyalty in fundamental ways. If it were not for the friendships I've made since the 05 beta - I would have headed for the door by now.

I hope you can fix this. An apology would be a great square-one. Never bringing the Wall back would be a great square-two. It'll take more than that for me to have my faith restored.... but as I said, those two steps are needed to be taken for me to even begin to do so.


Faithfully submitted,
Paul aka Memnir.

seconded. Can't give out more rep...

I guess they are just putting the REAL meaning behind their slogan: Powered by Our fans (http://www.turbine.com/). Worlds Premier creator eh? Then why need to sell out to the scam artists? Or is that how you view your company? Didn't your mother ever tell you are judged by those whom you call friends? To quote Tolero:
Want to get your hands on more FREE Turbine Points? Visit my.ddo.com/getpoints (http://my.ddo.com/getpoints), log in, and check out the latest offers at the my.ddo.com offer wall from our friends at SuperRewards!

[broolthebeast]

Do it. I can't imagine it would take a whole lot of effort to make him look like an ass.

or ignorant

or both

or childish

or immature

or all of the above. ;)

I've never listened to his show, but if gol was to go on there and rip him apart I'd listen for the night. ;)

[wolfy42]

In all my years of playing various free to play games (through facebook etc) that used offerpal/wall to earn money (many on top of offering direct points and rewards like DDO) I have never seen ANY take it down due to customer complaints, even when customers have had serious issues including no longer being able to play the game at all on their computer!!

Turbine did that in a very short time and seems to care about what it's player base things instead of just caring about how it can make the most money. That is rare and should be appreciated.

Also even in the initial offerwall most of the really bad offers were not there. I saw the IQ one where you have to send a text message and a few book offers etc, but none of the offers where you sign up and get charged $80 a week later if you don't cancel etc.

I realize people are upset but I would just ask everyone to take a breathe and give Turbine a chance to investigate. If your email gets spammed or something because you clicked on the site...then I can understand if you are complaining, but yelling about something have heard is possible from others, but has not happened to you (at least that you can tell) isn't going to help anything.

I've used offerpal in the past successfully without any negative ramifications. I got the equivalent of about $100 work of turbine points through offerpal for a game called dream world over 3 months or so, without spending any money at all (except I signed up for netflix and kept it past the 2 free weeks...but I didn't get any points for that...I just wanted to keep getting more movies). The same site had many toolbars etc that could damage your computer but I never did any of them. It's possible if they carefully check each offer (which they just said they will do) to have this be a great resource for people on a tight budget and a bonus for people who already plan on getting a service offered on the wall.

One I remember that was worth a ton (I couldn't get it but I know others did) was to sign up for Direct TV. You had to sign up for a year but you got something like $150 worth of points for it. That is pretty great if you need the service anyway (sadly I already have Direct TV so I couldn't do it).

So finally I'd just ask people to give positive advice on how to set this up so it does not harm anyone and gives people another option to get turbine points (and helps generate a bit more income for turbine as well). Everything we can do to support the game will in the end also help make the game better and more enjoyable for us as well.

[Ebuddy]

First, I’m glad I don’t see as many black helicopters as some people here. I agree with wolfy42 here. Turbine thought they had a great idea, the DDO Community seems to think otherwise and they appear to be responding quickly, professionally and with genuine concern.

Second, I’d like to counter all you IT geniuses out there with all the possible ways in which some private information might be obtained. I’ve worked in the financial services industry for over 20 years and I’d like to set a few things straight. “Identity Theft” is WAY more strictly defined and not nearly as common as the media and outlets like freecreditreport.com and LifeLock would have you believe. If someone gets a hold of your credit card and uses it - that is NOT identity theft. It’s someone fraudulently using your credit card. In addition, I’ve not yet EVER run into a credit card issuer who, when presented with the proper documentation didn’t give credit to and take immediate action for fraudulent transactions. Don’t go spouting stories of your cousin (or even yourself), unfortunately like any process, there are exceptions. Finally, consider how many actual people come in contact with your credit card. You’ve a bigger risk of someone skimming your card information at the local Starbucks or discount store (heck, it even happens at up-scale places), than you do over something like this.

Third, the deal is pretty simple, if you feel THAT uncomfortable about the Wall, don’t use it and you’ll NEVER have any risk from loosing information from it.

Bad form from Turbine? I think so. It seems to cheapen the nature of the game and I for one take offense at it but is all this angst REALLY justified? I think not.

[Quarks]

In all my years of playing various free to play games (through facebook etc) that used offerpal/wall to earn money (many on top of offering direct points and rewards like DDO) I have never seen ANY take it down due to customer complaints, even when customers have had serious issues including no longer being able to play the game at all on their computer!!


I don't know how hardcore a gamer you must be that 'no longer being able to play the game' beats 'having your privacy and personal security compromised' on a scale of worst-case scenarios.

Apart from that, you have a grain of truth in what you say there. And I think one big difference here is that DDO only went F2P a very short time ago. People who played back then don't see it on one level with 'normal' F2P games. In many of these you also have VIPs, but they usually haven't paid 15$ a month for 4ish years. So I think it is pretty clear why VIPs expect better customer service than you'd expect to see in a facebook flashgame.