Hitting the wall, again (stuck at lvl 14)

[ghortagg]

This my 3rd attempt at DDO. (2006, 2008 and 2009), and i m having rough time.

Each time i try ddo (which i love) i'm hitting a wall, a certain point from which every thing seem to get A LOT harder:

1st time i quit around lvl4 (trying to play solo rogue)
2nd time it was around lvl 10 ( My GF joined in, and hirelings were there)
3rd time is now my 3rd time (was EU player, now on US server)


I'm lvl 14 (never been so high) and i'm trying to do Desert/Necropolis 3/restless island


So i m stuck with lvl 10-12 mission (being 14)
And i mean lvl 9-10 were hellish (Jungle of Khyber for instance, or the last mission protect Coyle)
Beholders and Mummies are a Big problem (i want to finish necro 3)

My GF and i manage to do the missions but at a heavy cost. So heavy that we don't have fun anymore

Ex: when my GF dies three times in a mission, usually she quits DDO for a week, or two...

(I've included the parameters that describe our game play so you can have the best idea how we play)



SO Could you assert/deny the following

1° YES THERE IS A WALL. and getting past the original content needs preparation/grind/training, don't loose hope!
2° YES THERE IS A WALL. and the way you play the game won't get you past that wall (that option makes me very sad since i don't intend to play otherwise)
3° NO THERE'S NO WALL. only the game getting a little harder and what you are dong wrong is ________ (insert advice)
4° NO THERES NO WALL. you just suck at this game



Thank you for your input

Parameters

* My GF plays a Kensai 14 Greataxe, i play a rogue 12/ranger2 and we a have priest hireling (expensive)
* We play only the two of us
* We like the Nice and Easy style
* We try to be informed. (Reading the forum, checking the build advices)
* We try to do all the missions avalaible in order (not setting a foot in Gianhold before finishing desert)
* We do not Grind content (doing the mission ONCE on normal, getting back on Hard/Elite once for Favor a few lvl later)
* We do not Cheat ( NOT using maps, dungeons guide, video library of quest)
* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)
* We do not play on casual mode (last glimpse of honor) but we are casual players :)
* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

[hydra_ex]

3. For you, there is a wall. Its hard to be casual, yet duo stuff at lvl 14. Sure, for many of us vets, its possible, but for new players, unfortunately, you might want to consider convincing a few more friends to play. Even 4 people would make a huge difference.

Or just group to try it out, and possibly for a static group of like-minded individuals with whom you can have fun.

Barring that, you might be able to derive some enjoyment of pulling off a slight grind in the various encounter areas you have available (sorrowdusk and the menechtarun are all very good) It might take a while to find all the rares, and since you don't use maps, you can consider it not grinding until you find all the rares!

[Mecholi22]

You two are going to have to step out of the box and group some.. No offense but I always wanted to ask someone with that play style.. Why play a MMO if you like to solo or play only with people you know? Wouldn't XBox or PS3 be the same thing?

[Antheal]

we a have priest hireling

I think I may have detected what the problem could be.

There are no cleric hirelings in this game, however there is a malicious computer virus on the DDO servers that masquerades as these so-called "cleric hirelings" that have the function of instilling confidence in the player only to leave them to die at the worst moment, usually by attracting the attention of monsters and then getting themselves killed while doing nothing to defend themselves...

[Disclaimer: That comment might have been a joke. Or might not. Your mileage may vary.]

[hydra_ex]

I think I may have detected what the problem could be.

There are no cleric hirelings in this game, however there is a malicious computer virus on the DDO servers that masquerades as these so-called "cleric hirelings" that have the function of instilling confidence in the player only to leave them to die at the worst moment, usually by attracting the attention of monsters and then getting themselves killed while doing nothing to defend themselves...

[Disclaimer: That comment might have been a joke. Or might not. Your mileage may vary.]

What I like to do with hirelings is park them at back and have them top me off in between fights. Hopefully the OP has realized this, as he seems to be relatively intelligent.

[Anderei]

Yes, this is an online game out of a reason, also groups teach you stuff.

Altough vets can solo stuff, its with tons of playing experiences, uber gear and hundrets of pots, for most joe-normals this game runs better in groups, for what it was designed for.

Just open groups yourself for stuff you want to run and put a friendly "no zerging please" in the LFM, and you should be fine.

[Grimdiegn]

I'd say the problem is neither one of you is playing an arcane. Reroll that rogue into a WF wiz with a level of rogue and you will find higher level quests become a lot easier to duo.

[Terelle]

Relying on a hireling for healing really doesn't help the situation. If one of you was capable of healing both (ie, she was kensai but you were cleric/fvs, or she was WF melee and you were WF sorc/wiz) things would definitely go a lot more smoothly.

Cleric hirelings are a little... lets say tactically limited. They also don't have the spell pools, reflexes, or gear of your typical pug cleric, who by the level you are at has had at least some practice at keeping themselves (and hopefully the group) alive.

My suggestion would be to the both of you, find a like minded, casual guild who enjoys a similar playstyle to you. You can look on the server forums for the server you play on. This will expand your grouping options a lot if you can find a few others who can shore up your group and help, and save you money on hirelings.

Or join/start groups which say 'no zerging' in the LFM, to try to find others who play similarly.

[SolarDawning]

The problem is that you rely on a hireling for healing.
You'd find duoing missions at or above your own level easy if you were playing self-sufficient (Read as: capable of healing oneself) characters. Monks, rangers (Cure wands), paladins (Lay on Hands, cure wands), cleric, favored soul, for example.

Being able to cheaply and easily top yourselves off between fights makes solo and duo play a lot easier.

Having a way to emergency heal instantly mid-fight makes it a breeze. (Lay on Hands via paladin, higher level healing spells via cleric, FvS, or Halfling dragonmark feats)

I mean it with no offense intended when I say that it's #4.

4° NO THERES NO WALL. you just suck at this game
But it's not because you "suck", because you probably don't. If you duo'ed to level 14, I'm sure you've learnt a lot about the game, and are quite capable.
It's just because you've got the wrong pair of classes for easy duo play.

[Kam-Ekaze]

Hey there,

I'm a relatively new player, I started last year when the game became free (I'm VIP, it was only the advertisement push that got me to be honest, previous the game becoming f2p I had never even heard of DDO, anyway...) I have managed to solo and duo most of the quests in the game with a little skill and luck. I'm not really a solo player, but I hate doing many quests blindly and tend to prefer having an idea of what I'm up against first. Hence, my first toon I took to cap was mostly a soloist for me to learn all the content, and pick up a few groups here and there when I wanted to be social.

Short-manning content, from what I've noticed is first and foremost a drain on your character's wallet, and the costs only get higher as you level. You mention finding hirelings expensive, but in reality they are the cheapest source of healing, as even wands which output a lot less healing are a lot dearer. I should mention about hirelings is that if you are in an outdoor area like Sands, you can use them for hours as long as you don't head back to town. You may be able to get many quests done before heading back, and saving yourself a couple plat pieces in the process.

I think you should stick with it and hone your skills until you succeed. It's a game after all, and the goals you've set yourself should make it all that much more rewarding. There are some quests that you will find near impossible to solo before moving onto other content. For example, the pre-raid quest in Sands (ADQ1) will be very very tough for the two of you without any outside help. I believe the queen there is CR 25 or so on normal. Maybe higher. She's a purple boss (meaning extreme difficulty) with a lot of health.

I'm not sure if it will help, but I posted a guide on survival a while ago in my guild boards for newer players to read, I'll post it on my next post as optional reading if you are interested. It is lengthy but might contain some information of value to help you along.

Hope it helps.

[Kam-Ekaze]

Learning to survive is a prime skill in DDO as much as any other MMO or game really, and sometimes there is a lot more to it than waiting for that red bar to deplete. There are many many things that will factor into your survivability, and many of those will change as situations do.

The most important attribute to staying alive is the ability to adapt to changing situations. If anyone's familiar with the game Lemmings, you'll know what I'm talking about. Lemmings will blindly just walk forward without thought of what is ahead of them, and you have to adapt their path to guarrantee their survival. If you forget to close a gap they will inevitably fall into it without a second thought about it. However, with a little quick thinking and adapting to manipulate the things around you with the tools you are given, you can safely guide the poor brainless Lemmings all the way to the exit unscratched.

So, when do you die? When your hit points drop below -9 clearly (were you expecting a more elaborate answer?). Surviving is all about doing what is whithin your power to ensure that health bar doesn't reach that point. So first let's look at ways of replenishing health:

1. Healer/healing spells
2. Wands/scrolls
3. Potions
4. Resting

The above are all well known methods for restoring your health pool. Unlike popular belief most quests in this game do not require a dedicated healer, as you might notice, a healer is only one of four methods of restoring health, albeit the most comfortable one, but not necessary for much of the DDO content.

Clerics, FvS, bards, paladins and rangers all have the in-built ability of using (divine) healing and other beneficial wands. UMD users can also use (eventually) most wands in the game as well as heal scrolls (for roughly 150 health back before wand/scroll enhancements).

Everyone else can use potions. And before you cry foul and say that these potions are expensive, please read on, because *restoring* your health is a cure. I think most important is prevention!

Let's list some ways to prevent damage:

1. Buffs

Armor class buffs

Shield of Faith: Divine spell. 2-5 Deflection bonus to AC. (Note: Deflection bonus also known as protection bonus)
Barkskin: Ranger spell. 1-5 Nature bonus to AC.
Mage Armor: Arcane spell. 4 armor bonus to armor (This is the same armor bonus you will find on worn armor)
Shield: Arcane spell. (*grants other bonuses) 4 shield bonus to AC (Same bonus as shields)
Inspire Heroics: Bard song. (*grants other bonuses) 4 dodge bonus to AC
Recitation: Divine spell. (*grants other bonuses) 2 luck bonus to AC
Haste: Arcane spell. (*grants other bonuses) 1 enhancement bonus to AC

Concealment buffs

Blur: 25% concealment bonus.
Displacement: 50% concealment bonus.
Dusk: 10% concealment bonus.
Dance of clouds: (Monk light finisher) 20% concealment bonus.

Mobility buffs

Jump: 10-30 into jump skill.
Tumble: 10-30 into tumble skill.
Haste: 40% Movement speed increase.
Merfolk's blessing: Enhancement to swim (situational)

DR buffs

Stoneskin: 10/admantine
Angelskin: 5/evil
Ironskin chant: 5/-
Shield: (*grants other bonuses) 10% damage reduction to glancing blows.

Health pool enhancement buffs

Rage: Arcane spell. Grants 2 to constitution (and strength) for the duration, decreases AC by 2.
Inspire Greatness: Bard song. Temporary hitpoints.
Aid: Divine spell. Temporary hitpoints.
Divine Power: Divine spell (*grants other bonuses) Temporary hit points
Greater heroism: Temporary hitpoints

Magic reduction buffs

Resist Energy: Resists 10-30 of a prompted energy type (fire,acid,electric,cold,sonic)
Nightshield: Cleric/FvS: Boosts saves and immunity to magic/force missiles.
Shield: Wiz/Sorc: (*grants other bonuses) Immunity to magic/force missiles.
Protection from energy/elements: Absorbs energy damage (fire,acid,electric,cold,sonic)

Buffs are pretty self explanatory for the most part. Above are only a few among many and many times will be the difference between success and failure on your mission at hand.

2. Positioning

There will always be someone who has the aggro of an enemy, whether person is a tank or not. Hence the enemy will always be facing in a particular direction. It's very important whenever possible to attack from behind as many enemies have cleave and greate cleave attacks who will hit many people in front of them in an arc. Great cleave has a 270 degree radius if I remember correctly, so at times, even dps'ing from the sides is not enough.

Another aspect of positioning is knowing where the rest of your party is. If you rush ahead around a corner, or out of range of your healer, it's no one's fault but yours if you get your head bashed in and no one was there to help you.

Positioning actually goes hand in hand with our next point...

3. Mobility

No, not the feat. I'm talking about actual movement and using the terrain around you to prevent incoming damage. Everyone hates kiters, but sometimes it's a necessary evil when the evil critter coming straight for you to eat your face can usually one-shot you. If you must kite try and run the enemies around your party, rather than very very far away where the healers/melees can't reach you. Nothing is worse than being trapped against a corner by an angry mob of enemies with torches and pitchforks. That's why the jump spell is so important for squishies, it will save your behind one day.

Remember the environment can help you. You can use doorways to block off hoardes of enemies and only deal with 2 or three at a time. You can use corners and pillars to get out of line of sight from nasty casters, etc etc.

4. Anticipating trouble

Something look too peaceful to be true? Ever see a room that shouts death at you? You're most probably right, and should probably be very careful. We can't help our curiosity and if we see a gigantic red button labeled "Do not push" chances are it's going to bug each one of us until we push it.

The key is being prepared, wait for the rogue if you have one. Wait for your team if they are lagging behind, don't walk into the ambush/trap/pit/lava/giant bang-bearing monster alone if you don't know if you can handle it.

Anticipation also comes into play whenever you enter combat. Assessing the situation is half the battle. Find the most threatening target (usually the caster) and eliminate it quickly and efficiently, then deal with things as they come. When spotting your target, you should already be thinking about the most efficient path and charging for them.

If you're fighting casters, sometimes that cometfall/flamestrike/cloudkill/whatever is going to get you sooner or later if you're all bunched up. Learn to adapt depending on what you are fighting and sometimes spreading out enough to avoid area spells will grant that much more survivability. The healer's mana isn't unlimited, and if you're not doing what you can to avoid damage, his blue bar is going to be empty a lot sooner than it should be.

5. Aggro management

This point speaks for itself. If you can't take a hit, then don't. Wait for the tank to build enough hate, use diplomacy if you draw aggro, find yourself a nice weapon and/or gear that will reduce your hate generation. Sometimes the spotlight is simply on you when that big angry Inevitable turns around and sonic-punches your teeth in. Be careful, not every strategy is "lets kill him before he kills us".

6. Teamwork

Work as a team. A well-oiled machine will take out enemies quicker and more efficiently than they will be able to dish out damage to your party. The healer can keep you upright, but his job ends when battle ends. Please try and top yourselves up in-between battles, the healer is only there for emergency use and is not your personal mana/health battery.

Communicating with your party will get you a long way. Nothing worse than joining a party where everyone runs off on different directions. Typically one person should be followed even if you already know the quest, there can often be many routes to get somewhere and if everyone picks a route and there's 6 different routes, chance are, more than one of you is going to die before you get there, which brings me to my last point.

7. Death

It happens. Everyone dies at some stage. If you die and get rezzed during battle (specially a boss battle) Whatever you do, don't charge right back in. If you do you're only being a liability and are probably better off dead. Wait for your death debuff to wear off, wait to be rebuffed or start quaffing your buffing potions away to make sure you're going to live through another few minutes of battle. If I rez someone and I see them charge right back in and die again, chances are I'm not going to rez them again.

Hope this is all helpful, 90% of the time it's not the healers fault that you died, but your own, consider all the points above and after you die, think on everything before you ask yourself why that heal didn't come on time. Could you have survived if you acted a little differently? Most very likely.

Peace.

[Aurora1979]

Theres loads of great advice there and i dont need to add more but i will say this. Ive been playing just over a year and YES there are deffinatly walls i crashed into :)

First was my 1st roll. level 8 ranger who i gimped in many ways. I joined a guild shortly after and they righted my wrongs.

next was level 12- 14 whith my 2nd char a drow cleric. I had real porblems here. Bad pugs, inefficent play by me, poor equipment and lots of wipes in Gianthold. I went broke, and i mean completely. There might still be a thread i put up in the europe forums about it :) The community helped me out there. Some donations, some adive and some runs through quests qith tried and tested peeps who didnt wipe :)

My most recent was just a few weeks ago. I capped my sorcerer, first ever cap and i hit a real rut. i was out leveled compared to most of my guildies, I found it hard to join pugs as i had no experiance of most of the quests. I couldnt get experiance unless i ran them :) vicious circle.

I ended up soloing all the demon queen pre quests, never ran the raid. I soloed all the inspired quarter stuff but couldnt beat the last giant dude. I soloed most of the necro and orchard too. It took me ages but i didnt have much choice.

So yea, ive had similar problems to what your encountering. All i can say is the odd group will help you out, in showing you around. Not relying on hirelings is important too. I very rarely take them and if i do they sit at the entrance till i need them.

I solo 90% of my play. excluding raids. I dont mind grouping but the fact is im a powergamey type rusher and i know my playstyle doesnt suit many people. I love it if i find someone similar. I still enjoy the game and although i can see why for most people, it is a social game more then solo, i find either works fine. It depends on your own preferance.

[Dawnsfire]

I hit a similar wall at about 13/14th level. I have been a solo player since my brother quit playing a few months back. In fact this current character is totally solo. I gave up on counting on hirelings a long time ago. The key to my progression after that has been explorer/rare/slayers. I have made it to 18.3 so far and it hasn't been so bad. If you need a confidence boost, I bet the explorer area in the Desert (maybe skipping the undead area if mummies are a problem) would be a good place to start. Good luck :)

[Claver]

* We try to do all the missions avalaible in order (not setting a foot in Gianhold before finishing desert)
* We do not Grind content (doing the mission ONCE on normal, getting back on Hard/Elite once for Favor a few lvl later)
* We do not play on casual mode (last glimpse of honor) but we are casual players :)


I have not yet found the wall in Gianthold. I can solo there and I consider myself a casual player with suboptimal gear and mediocre skills.

I think you and your girlfriend can still experience the game on your own terms in a static group with only some modest adjustments to your play style.

I play in guild with 2 other players. Sometimes 2 of us run the quest; sometimes all 3. We grab hirelings when needed. We also solo but try to stay in the same level range. I too try to do the missions in available order.

Here are the keys that have helped me and my team.

(1) There is no shame in Casual mode at the upper level. Some quests are designed for a larger team. If you are playing as one or 2 people you are playing at an extreme disadvantage. If I hadn't run Madstone Crater on casual with a hireling, myself and a friend we would have never survived - there was plenty of challenge for 2+ people. If normal proves too frustrating don't beat your head against a wall - recall and try again on casual. Or better yet! Conquer casual first as a 2 man team and then move on to normal and hard. 14th+ quests are meant for more than 2 players.

(2) It may be necessary to play content that is a few levels below you. I soloed and duod quests before dungeon scaling existed. To compensate, we had to be several levels above the quest. We would wait until we were 10th level before running a level 8th quest for example. You may need to use a similar approach.

(3) With the above in mind, run quests on Casual, Normal, and Hard before getting to far outside the level range and avoid leveling up until you have enough xp to advance 2 levels. Using this approach, I have a 15th level character with enough xp to level to 16th who is just now doing the level 12 and level 13 quests in gianthold (soloing casual mode).

(4) Play as though you were in the dungeon by yourself, use stealth to "body pull" one or two monsters towards you to kill them one at a time. Use arrows to kill from a distance. Pull monsters into traps.

(5) It may be too late to give you this advice unless you reroll or reincarnate but if you plan to solo or play as a couple you should play characters that are self sufficient or synergistic together. Consider a dragonmarked halfling ftr/rng/monk who can cast heal 5 times a day as well as regen/meditate. Warforged wizard/sorcerer combos with other classes can cast repair on themselves. As a ranger/rogue you should be able to at least use some cure wands and perhaps some scrolls if your UMD is sufficient.



my last bit of advice is consider "occasionally" opening your group up to just one additional player to see another play style. You can send a tell to the player, explain what you want (slow play, no spoilers, etc.). Just letting one person in from time to time shouldn't destroy your experience. Pick someone randomly from a gulld.

If you are on Sarlona I would be happy to help - just send me a PM.

[Peo]

6. Ex: when my GF dies three times in a mission, usually she quits DDO for a week, or two...

1. My GF plays a Kensai 14 Greataxe, i play a rogue 12/ranger2 and we a have priest hireling (expensive)
1. We play only the two of us
2. We try to be informed. (Reading the forum, checking the build advices)
3. We do not Grind content (doing the mission ONCE on normal, getting back on Hard/Elite once for Favor a few lvl later)
4. We do not Cheat ( NOT using maps, dungeons guide, video library of quest)
5. We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)
1. MMOs are not to be played by your self. You would be shocked at how easy the game becomes if you had a 6~12 man party.

2. Do you? I wasn't aware rogues get talked about being solo experts here.

3. If you go back and play a few quests a few more times you'll be level 17 and probably capable of finishing the quests your having problems with now.

4. How is looking up a map cheating? You nap a trail map at a park or look up directions to Six Flags before going to it.

5. Eh? So is every person with their highest level toon. Everyone managed that at some point.

6. I personally hate when people rage quit just because they died. Whoop-di-do. Multiple death happens and even at level 18 it only costs 2,000gp, it's ok I make 100,000gp per shroud run and have next to no use for gold as a FvS. My wizard minds it even less since her gear sucks and being killed to a point everything breaks isn't much of a hinderence.

I think the very core of your problem is playing the game wrong. It's ok and can be done, but don't complain about things being too hard, it is your choice that makes it so.

[vindicater]

First almost all the advice you have got so far sound good and I wont rehash it.
Second yes you are hitting a wall but it is one you have built for yourself then get frustrated when you cant scale it. Start looking at maps and information about specific quests as rummers or secret tresure maps you have found. If you continue to go into content blind you will continue to die.
You really did not pick a very sinergetic team to twoman content with. If you are considering rerolling that is where I would start.

[Talon_Sky]

I have yet to see rogues do well solo/duo.

My gf and I have duoed the entire game so far. I have a single level in rogue and she has two, I believe. Otherwise, we're decently soloable builds and able to help each other....she went ranger/paladin, and I went TWF bard. She kills and tanks, I heal and do skill stuff, as well as help kill occasionally. Groups kick my butt still, but when fighting a single mob I destroy it with my buffs on.

That being said, Bard buffs would be a big help here. Inspire Courage is amazing, especially when the enhancements for it are taken. Blur makes a huge difference, and Rage is possibly the most wonderful spell in this game.

Seriously, reroll into a bard or cleric. You obviously need the healing if you're using a hireling, so why not do it yourself?



Clerics, FvS, bards, paladins and rangers all have the in-built ability of using (divine) healing and other beneficial wands. UMD users can also use (eventually) most wands in the game as well as heal scrolls (for roughly 150 health back before wand/scroll enhancements).



Just being nit-picky, but bard spells aren't divine. They're arcane, which means that that desperately needed Cure spell could fail if you're not specced right. It sucks :s

[Anneliese]

I think the main problem might lie in hireling and aggro management.

The key strategy is to pull only what you can handle and then use the hireling to top yourself off after - repeat until dungeon done.


Also, there is no shame in going in on casual first if you dont know the dungeon.



Another thing is that your team is not exactly optimal - but if you dont even want to repeat some dungeons, I dont think you want to start again...

[Baloran]

I complety understand how you feel, I had the same experience with my solo rogue/fighter/bard build. Hit my personal wall around level 10, where on level content became difficult to solo.

What I noticed: If you play on normal, dungeon scaling will consider your hireling as a 0.5 player, meaning that the dungeon difficulty is scaled to two and a half players. If the hireling is not doing its job properly (i.e. dies a lot), you end up with a harder difficulty than nescessairy. So if you two man/woman it without a hireling, its a little bit easier. Won't make a big difference at higher difficulties though.

Was reason enough for me not to take a hireling with me for solo play, healing myself with wands between fights.
I assume your rogue is umd specced, so healing between fights with cure light/mod wands is not too expensive.

[hockeyrama]

I am fairly new so really can't say about everything here. Just that the biggest thing to me is there are two builds I have seen solo very well. The WF wiz (or sorc) and teh halfling light monk. The dragonmarks from the halfllng give you some of your own healing to supplement you so you can make it back to hireling. Hirelings are not that expensive if that the only real cost. Ther problem to me seems more of a how to deal with healing or damage taken while you fighting if cleric not with you as you mentioned. Both the WF wiz and the monk can heal themselves. You could add a lvel of rogue or two. I duo with my kid and we are two halflings, one monk and the other rogue. She stays back and lets me take the aggro, and she tries to heal a bit if absoloutely needed during the fight, but after I can heal myself. Eventually we will probable park a hireling but not sure if need much else.

The Wf wiz with a wf barb, also seems a good idea. The wf wiz can heal both very well, and yet can do massive damage. Once they get FW a friend of mine starts soloing everythnig wtih his WF wiz, he justs runs around, collecting all the bad guys (if they weakish) then runs them around a FW. They die he lives and then heals, then rinse and repeat.

I not saying these the only ways just saying try to have some healing that helps in fight or before you get back to hireling.

Also another thing I noticed is that you mentioned the frustration over hireling cost. While once you get higher up it much more costly dying a few times as the repair bills can be way more expensive then the cost of your hireling.

However, you seem to know the game really well and I thnk you two will get past your wall. Just have to come up with a duo of builds that works well and does not need to rely on hireling. I mean even two light path halfling monks might be neat. Great solo survivability and they have improved evasion so just run around traps. Put points in UMD and can stuff to help with locks. That last I never saw but was just thining could be good.

Good luck and let us know when you get past your barrier.

[Lehrman]

SO Could you assert/deny the following

1° YES THERE IS A WALL. and getting past the original content needs preparation/grind/training, don't loose hope!

Quest knowledge, gear, and the right class for the quest. don't lose hope!

2° YES THERE IS A WALL. and the way you play the game won't get you past that wall (that option makes me very sad since i don't intend to play otherwise)

At low-mid levels, duo melees is expensive unless you are geared very well or have high AC. At high levels its very expensive unless you have a lot of fast-click, self-healing (wands while running away and jumping so you don't get hit, lay hands, etc.) or high AC or ridiculously high DPS--both generally imply uber gear.

3° NO THERE'S NO WALL. only the game getting a little harder and what you are dong wrong is ________ (insert advice)

There is no wall, only Zuul...My advice is that if someone asks you if you are a God, you say, "Yes." Most heavily-twinked, solo-questing toons start slowing down at around level 12, most non-heavily twinked start slowing down around level 8 and hit a wall around level 12--you can push the boundaries of the wall by doing slayers in explorer areas. You are not doing anything wrong, but it is worth farming a lot of bound to account gear so that when you create more characters, the leveling pain is lessened.

Parameters

* My GF plays a Kensai 14 Greataxe, i play a rogue 12/ranger2 and we a have priest hireling (expensive)

You can cut some of the expense by using cure serious wands on your rogue/ranger rather than drinking cure serious pots. With the wands you can keep your Gf alive better than that hireling can, but if you are healing her, then you are not fighting. Another expense cutter is the gathering of haste clickies to be used instead of pots. Also, if you have a semi-decent AC (40+) then spending plat on barkskin+3 potions may actually reduce your costs more since you may well get hit less--if you are a 2wpn build, then using shield spell clickies or wands will boost your ac even more. The only thing better than getting healed is not getting hit int he first place.

* We play only the two of us

This may well limit the quests you can run with the classes you have chosen. As you get better gear you will begin to overcome class barriers.

* We try to do all the missions avalaible in order (not setting a foot in Gianhold before finishing desert)
* We do not Grind content (doing the mission ONCE on normal, getting back on Hard/Elite once for Favor a few lvl later)

This will slow down the speed at which you can level, especially if you are not skipping the quests that are cost prohibitive or repeating the quests that are great xp even without the bonus for first time completion.

* We do not Cheat ( NOT using maps, dungeons guide, video library of quest)
* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)

Its ok to buy from the auction house, but good luck finding something at a reasonable price. Periodically checking the vendors may net you an occasional vorpal or disruptor and will make your life a lot easier in the long term.

* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

Zerging is really just a matter of DPS. When your girlfriend hits a mob with stunning blow and kills it on the followup swing or crits/kills a mob in one swing it is zerging on a micro-scale. When she kills a mob with every other swing from the start of the quest to the end of the quest and the bodies are like bread crumbs from a children's story, then whether you like it or not, you have zerged.

Zerging has a bad name because people who can't zerg try to zerg and get the party or themselves killed. Run a non-epic quest with a 70+ strength 800 hp barbarian who is geared for epics and you will see what zerging is meant to look like. Its sick, awesome, but sick.

The moral of the story is: If you are having fun, then you win. Its ok to be level 14 for the next decade if you are having fun doing it.

[Lleren]

Have you run the "A Relic of Soveriegn Past" quest?. It has a crafting mechanic to it. One of the things you make is the Nightforge Gorget, a necklace with Heavy Fortification ( stops crits dead ). Running this quest once will get you enough Ore for one, running it twice will get you enough ore for 3 of them, so you can sell some on the auction house maybe. If both of your characters already have Heavy Fortification please ignore this =D

With your duo team I would avoid quests with a major amount of undead. Play to your strengths, concentrate on fleshy mobs. Ataraxia explorer/slayer/rares would be another thing you could work on. It is not really grinding until you know the area like the back of your hand ;)

One more tactic, hold off leveling until you have finished your quest goals for that level, or you are capped on exp. One level below you on normal has no exp penalty, but 2 levels does, 3 levels below the penalty is rather noticeable.

There is a reason why most duo's ( in many games, not just DDO ) go Heavy Melee/Healer. If you can stand the look of Warforged there is always the Warforged duo team some others have mentioned earlier.

There are walls, but many of the walls are playstyle and character build choices. If you only ever duo, there is content you will miss out on. More then some duo's as you lack both Divine and Arcane spellscasting, except through consumables.

Casual Mode was designed for your situation. The higher level you get, the more money you can make.

[Hecore]

FVS/Monk and Bard/Rogue would probably work out, as would a Warforged Paladin and a Warforged Wizard/Rogue.

Two DPS/Low AC are going to have it rough without any kind of quick personal healing. I'd suggest leveraging your UMD as much as you can - Heroism/Greater Heroism scrolls, Stoneskin Wands, Blur wands. Drink Rage potions and Haste potions liberally. Use a bit of ranged to pull a fewer mobs at a time. Hit the auction and buy paralyzers - less popular weapons shouldn't cost too much and it'll cut the damage you take by a lot.

I wouldn't worry too much about money - starting at level 16 or so it just starts flowing in. I haven't been purposely farming for loot and I have 3 million GP at 17, after buying a bunch of Heal scrolls, Raise Dead scrolls, Stoneskin wands, Level 11 Resist Wands, etc.

[Claver]

My GF and i manage to do the missions but at a heavy cost. So heavy that we don't have fun anymore
* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)
* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

One more word of advice,

I don't think this is what you meant by heavy cost but since you are taking time to smell the roses in the quests be sure to gather as many collectable as you can.

Once DDO introduced crafting rituals via collectables I was never poor again.

You can sell lightning split soarwood on the auction house for 500k, silver flame hymnals for 250k, and a host of other collectables that you gather for free for ridiculous prices.

Profits from collectibles will go a long way to offset the cost of hirelings, cure posts and cure wands

[samthedagger]

This is an MMO. That means Massively-Multiplayer Online. This game is not meant for solo players or even duos. It is meant for people who like to group up with lots of other people for shared enjoyment of the game. You can solo quite easily up to level 10. After that, it starts to get rough unless you really know what you are doing (read: have already run the quest a dozen times and know how to prep).

A lot of people wear an ability to solo as a badge of honor. That's because it is difficult to solo the entire game. Hirelings don't cut it. They can help round out a group, but they are never a substitute for an actual party of 6.

Group up with people. You'll have to start with PUGs, obviously, although you could look around on the forums for guilds that are recruiting. And yes, you will have to wade through some idiots who know nothing of manners or polite behavior. Sadly, that's par for the course. But once you find a solid group of people you like to quest with, the rewards are great. You will do quests faster because you know how to work as a team. You'll share loot with each other. And you can exchange tips with each other. Multiplayer is the key to this game. If you aren't doing it, you are missing out on the whole point of the experience.

[ghortagg]

I'd like to thank everybody for their advices

1° my priest hireling is used as a mobile shrine, not in battle.
2° i m quite relieved that the main problem is duo-ing, because that can be worked around :)
3° I m wondering if an Arcane Hireling (wiz our sorc) can ease up the path a little

So right now i'll try to bring that wall down ;)



Why play a MMO if you like to solo or play only with people you know? Wouldn't XBox or PS3 be the same thing?

I play mostly du to the RPG part of (MMO)RPG.
Would a Lan Party Game RPG would please me ? oh yes
MMORPG just have more content, are more inovative.
The occasional chat with strangers is nice, the global market is nice.
But i still play those games as Standard RPG.


Why don't we group ?

*Because we like to discover things by our own.
When doing a dungeon simply is rushing behind someone, not learning, not experincing the mood of the dungeon, we don't have any kind of fun.
*Because the language is a barrier, (English is not my native language) and sometimes is hard to understand the yells of the leader
*Because we LOVE to play at our own pace, and it's hard to do with stangers.


Anyhow, i d like to express my thankfullness, for the advices and the support.

[samthedagger]

Here's a bit of advice if you are interested.

1) Create an LFM stating that you are a casual player and would like to take things at an easy pace. I would say something to the effect of "2 casual players LFM to run quests. all optionals." Then see where that takes you.
2) If you join someone else's group avoid those with LFMs that state they are zerging or rushing. It may not be so explicit, but most people give at least some indication as to their play style with their LFM ad. Something as simple as whether the person bothers to use proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization can indicate to you whether you are dealing with a lazy player who just wants to rush through something or someone who actually took a minute to properly word the LFM.
3) When joining or starting a group with players you do not know, explain the language barrier up front. Say that you don't understand the spoken word very well and that you would prefer the other players to type important information. I have several Europeans on my friends list and I'm happy to take the time to type if it's more than just banter. Your English seems as good as any native speaker in the written form, so at the least, I imagine you should have an easy time expressing yourself.

You'll run into some jerks who might use the language barrier as an excuse to be an ass. But chances are those people would be jerks to anyone they met. But finding some friends that you can regularly group with is a rewarding experience. It's worth weeding through a few jerks to find them.

[krud]

I began this game in a static group of 4. We played much the same way you did; doing most quests only once, at or near level on normal (sometimes hard), and rarely repeating quests. We found it much harder to progress at the higher levels with the same approach we used in the lower levels. Quests at the higher levels seem to need multiple attempts in order to figure out. With fewer high level quests, i guess they were designed to take longer to figure out, in order to stretch the content a bit. It can be frustrating for a group like yours.

I would also suggest grouping with others. If you don't want spoilers, then maybe roll some alts and level them up with others, doing quests you already know. It will give you different perspectives on how to play characters, and tackle problems. You will pick up lots of useful information, that you may not have thought of otherwise. Of course, some will be zergfests, where you don't learn much, but at least they go by fast, and you can continue on in another group, by yourselves, or on your main high level toons.

I will say that if you try to continue as is on your two characters, you will find it harder to continue at the higher levels. There just is not enough content to level up by just doing quests one time each on normal. You will inevitably end up repeating some quests; first it will take multiple tries just to complete some of them once, and again in order to level. Either that or you'll get into character creation by rolling alts. If none of that appeals to you, then unfortunately the game will have run its course.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, for one, your class combos aren't very strong for duoing stuff: you don't have healing, you don't have crowd control and you don't have buffs. Quests can usually get done fairly well without 2 of those, but without 3 even relatively easy quests can be quite difficult.

Very good characters for duoing:
-Warforged Wizard with a level or 2 of rogue (self-healing, buffs, debuffs, traps, crowd control, burst DPS via nuking, and survivability)
-Cleric or Favored Soul; pure works well, 2 monk works well, 1 fighter on the cleric works well (can emphasize melee ability in addition to healing, or offensive casting, or defense with different combinations, but all will be good at healing and reasonable buffers)
-Paladin with both AC and DPS; can go pure, or Pal x/fighter 2 or Rogue 2 or Monk 2 (self-healing, defense, moderate DPS, high burst DPS, survivability, and possibly intimidate for melee-based crowd control)
-Tukaw build; think it's WF Sorcerer x/2 paladin/2 fighter maybe? (melee DPS, spell DPS, buffs, some crowd control, self-healing, survivability)
-Bard w/ 1 or 2 rogue (melee, CC, healing, buffing, traps)

-another good subset of options is to make sure that both party members have stealth capability, and try sneaking past most stuff.

There's a theme here: when you have fewer members in a group, those members have to be able to fulfill more roles and be more self-sustainable. A fighter is generally pretty poor at that (I solo a bit on my twinked-out, True Reincarnated fighter, but not much because I know just how poor he is at taking care of himself, and how much trouble he has with some situations, such as lots of casters).


The other option (much easier) is to group. Quests get much easier when you've got 6 people running them, because characters don't need to fulfill multiple roles, and can specialize further, making each individual more potent, while creating a group that is stronger than the sum of its individual parts.

If you like to take your time through quests, say so in your LFMs (and make sure those who join understand), or join a guild that also emphasizes this playstyle.

[hecate355]

Indeed, those classes arent good to solo with by default. About hitting the wall...dont get me wrong, but, not everything is meant to be easy or duoable, it needs extra effort, makes sense, doesent it? You built your own wall basically, not critizising your playstyle, but there are objective limits on what can and cant be done. Find players with similar playstyle, its not that hard, or...if you still wanna keep duoing, tweak it, tweak it more, reroll into selfhealing melee/caster. Wands are cool, but not good enough.
Once again, reroll, then reroll more :D believe me its important part of learning. Nothing prevents having fun same way you currently are while rerolling new chars and trying new ideas.

[Halaryel]

Coucou poussin,

i'm building my barD, spellsinger, just for you and ease your pain,

i promise not to zerg and always stay behind and let you solve the puzzle,

i hope you will forgive me for using my wealth to buy tons of Heal scroll and cure wand,

you can use me as a mobile shrine if you please :)

i'll be your ***** and you'll break this wall.

I miss you both.

Really.

ps: when i told you she should have roll a barbarian it was about the DR which help immensely at later level. once she get Warforged through FP (is that even possible) maybe she can TR into a warforged, and ill make another ton just for you.

[karnokvolrath]

Well i for one have mostly noticed hitting a wall usally at little but never at 14th, mine comes around 9th (because no gianthold yet), and then again at about 18th because ive ran the vale/meridia into the ground and i dont know the higher areas very well due to time off when they where released....but thats me.

[sirdanile]

* We try to do all the missions avalaible in order (not setting a foot in Gianhold before finishing desert)

* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)

* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

1. I highly suggest skipping on to gianthold, the xp rate increases exponentially while there, though it is safe to say desert isnt horrible, the enemies hit for less damage but take longer to kill, there are more open area situations where you have a higher chance of survival.

2. Buy yourselves paralyzing weapons and love them, vorpals are good if you can afford them as well but paralyzing is one of the best for soloing at that range. Being "Overstuffed* isnt a bad thing, it makes you more able to survive.

3. Thing about "zerging" is, buffs are on a timer...
You could be anti-speed, which I completely do not comprehend OR
You could be anti running in and dieing without a second thought, which I agree with.


4. (not based upon quoted text) You can find an arcane hireling and a cleric hireling and use them both, the arcane gives you haste and arcane firepower which will make things go much more smoothly.