buffs time help

[karkara]

well i have been playng this game for some time, and i whant to know something...

i whant to know if it is good to buff team mates whit or whitout, extend feat... (i mean buff everyone take a loot of my sp with extend spell...)

in the beggining i just buffed everyone whit all my buffs avalible (with extend) (then i could not help anymore because i was with a too low sp to it).

then i just use some especific buffs like blur, and resist when necessary... but also whit extend, and even so it takes a loot of sp, not all of it, but can later on in the quest makes me become kinda useless until next shire
(on raids is impossible do this or my sp go to 0 if only i buff everyone alone)

then i make it now with no extention, soh i can help it more on the rest of the quest...

i'm learning how to manage my sp more wisely, and aways trying to learn something new, but this problen aways get's i my mind... and i dont whant tha the group just think i'm useless you know

soh any tips and suggestions will help plz =)

i have aboult 767 sp on my lvl 10 wizz

ps: sorry my english, its not my native language

[Zombiekenny]

say "If you need some specific buff, type it in party chat, otherwise I'm going to assume you are self sufficient"
If people don't like it, then to bad. Its a waste of time and a waste of SP hitting everyone with everything.
Also, never give rangers resists, unless they are multiclassed, and you are one increment or more above them in effectiveness of the resists. Same goes for paladins.
Don't give bards GH, but they can use resists, as they can only get them off wands/pots/items for themselves

But yeah, if people don't like minimalist buffing, then thats too bad for them. You can spend 3 mins buffing and 10 mins on the quest, or 30 seconds buffing, and 10 mins on the quest (or maybe less if you can blow SP more now...)

It also helps to know the quest. For example, the only buffs (and I know you can't get all of these yourself, some are divine) that are useful/worth it in shroud are fom/fire/haste/deathward and maybe rage. GH is nice, but by that level you should be able to get your own if you want it. Poison comes in a pot that costs almost nothing and will last for forever. Deathward is worth it just cause its one click for everyone, otherwise I would assume people could get the visor from tangleroot.

[DragonDrago77]

Blur is a given. Only give out resists when you feel they are necessary. (Don't give fire resist when you are in Narnia.)
I love haste. That's really it. I can't think of any other buffs that are really necessary. Maybe GH/Heroism if you are feeling generous.

[Zombiekenny]

Blur is a given. Only give out resists when you feel they are necessary. (Don't give fire resist when you are in Narnia.)
I love haste. That's really it. I can't think of any other buffs that are really necessary.
If people want blur, they can ask. I give it if its a situation where the healer will be benefited by the 20% damage that people will take, if its not gonna be an issue then people aren't getting it without explicitly asking.

In my shroud example, its pointless, since harry has TS.


quickedit: I'm not a stickler for not buffing or anything, I just am not gonna waste my time hitting everyone with everything. I'm more often than not willing to give people even marginally-useful-at-best buffs if they ask, I just don't see a point in spending 5 mins making sure everyone is optimally buffed.

[DragonDrago77]

You don't have to give blur, I suppose. Harry might have TS, but that's just Harry. 20% chance of missing does help your cleric in the long run. And generally, everyone asks for blur- it doesn't(or shouldn't) kill your sp usage, it's effective, and generally everyone asks for blur. If people die, I feel that re-buffing them kills your sp, though.

(I just don't see a point in spending 5 mins making sure everyone is optimally buffed.)

Buffs don't take all that long to put on people. You said it yourself that people need blur, Heroism, maybe 1 or 2 resists and that's it.

[Zombiekenny]

You don't have to give blur, I suppose. Harry might have TS, but that's just Harry. 20% chance of missing does help your cleric in the long run. And generally, everyone asks for blur- it doesn't(or shouldn't) kill your sp usage, it's effective, and generally everyone asks for blur. If people die, I feel that re-buffing them kills your sp, though.

(I just don't see a point in spending 5 mins making sure everyone is optimally buffed.)

Buffs don't take all that long to put on people. You said it yourself that people need blur, Heroism, maybe 1 or 2 resists and that's it.
The only buffs worth giving are those which either reduce the completion time, or reduce the resource cost of the quest. Blur in many cases does not fall into that category. I will give it w/o being asked if its a quest where giving it does reduce time/expenditure, but most quests on most difficulties with most groups don't fit into this category. Of course I don't often pug, where theres 200 hit-point level 20s that rely on blur/displace to not get instant-killed (in which case its easier to just carry them to the next shrine). Basically I'm going to stand by blur being situationally useful, but very far from a 'mandatory' buff, and orders of magnitude less important than something almost essential like resists.

[honkuimushi]

The only buffs worth giving are those which either reduce the completion time, or reduce the resource cost of the quest. Blur in many cases does not fall into that category. I will give it w/o being asked if its a quest where giving it does reduce time/expenditure, but most quests on most difficulties with most groups don't fit into this category. Of course I don't often pug, where theres 200 hit-point level 20s that rely on blur/displace to not get instant-killed (in which case its easier to just carry them to the next shrine). Basically I'm going to stand by blur being situationally useful, but very far from a 'mandatory' buff, and orders of magnitude less important than something almost essential like resists.

If you can't see why a 20% reduction in incoming melee damage doesn't affect the time or resource expenditure of those doing the healing, I'm not going to argue with you. Especially where 25 sp per person will last most of the quest, maybe a little more for a longer quest, but you'll probably rebuff at a shrine. I would say that Blur prevents a lot more damage in most quests than resists. The main exception is for those quests with environmental damage and some quests where the spellcasters have some nasty elemental spells.

[Zombiekenny]

If you can't see why a 20% reduction in incoming melee damage doesn't affect the time or resource expenditure of those doing the healing, I'm not going to argue with you. Especially where 25 sp per person will last most of the quest, maybe a little more for a longer quest, but you'll probably rebuff at a shrine. I would say that Blur prevents a lot more damage in most quests than resists. The main exception is for those quests with environmental damage and some quests where the spellcasters have some nasty elemental spells.

20% blur is 20% less healing basically. I have a capped cleric, I appreciate the difference, and yes, it is kinda nice, but its far from necassary. If people ask for it, they get it, like I said, however, most of the time I am not going to give it to people that don't ask, just like most buffs. I used to give everyone every buff that helped in a specific dungeon, however, doing this just results in stupidly long buffing sessions, with no gain (no pots used, less completion time due to not waiting for every buff vs no pots used, higher completion time due to wasting time buffing)
If someone doesn't care enough about having blur to type that they want it (I start a quest by stating "If anyone wants a buff type/say something") then its not worth my time to give it to them, and if they die then they should have asked in the first place, and they will learn for the future.
This method has gotten me through many many raids and quests on all my characters (caster/cleric/ranger) without deaths, or with very few deaths (likely all of which would have happened anyways). A large number of the people I party with actually prefer minimalist buffing for several reasons, first, the time, and second, cause then they can actually see their buff-bar's more important, short duration buffs. (example, spyder on his paladin.)

[ddoer]

@OP, you have to learn every quest and know about your party in compare to the quest difficulty to know what buff are optimal. buffing is different quest by quest. If there are any general rules, I think they are:

ask what buff the party need, and don't give buff unless they ask for it
ask the party leader


it doesn't mean you should give buff to whoever ask for it. The one who ask for certain buff may not have run any caster and he may not really know how exactly the buff work. They may ask for it only because in their previous run, the caster casted it. It looks cool to have blur and displacement but if the quest is easy and people don't get serious melee damage that the healers can't handle, the buff is a waste.

if you spend your mana to buff, you will have less mana to do CC and nuking. IMHO, good crowd control usually can reduce more damage to the party than most buff. (perhaps only except displacement)

btw, I agree with Zombiekenny in all of his 3 posts above.

[dunklezhan]

you have to learn every quest and know about your party in compare to the quest difficulty to know what buff are optimal.



btw, I agree with Zombiekenny in all of his 3 posts above.

*Generally* I also agree with Zombiekenny. *However* the first quote (also from your post) neatly explains why you cannot *always* adhere to this philosophy. Its not just the buffer that has to know the quests to know what to buff, but the buffee has to know too, so that they know what to ask for.

[phalaeo]

You've already gotten some great advice-
I just wanted to tell you not to worry about your English- you are doing fine. :)

[sigtrent]

I think the need for buffs and the type of buffs used goes down as the party level goes up.

At low level a heroism could well be a huge boon, at high level it may well be entirely worthless. Some buffs like haste or long lasting damage buffs will always be appreciated but others just don't scale up on higher levels and will no longer have all that much impact.

Personally I like to try and custom tailor buffs to the quest, casting only that which is helpful, but I'll throw whatever folks ask for if I have it memorized. As a bard or cleric I try to keep an eye on each player and give whatever they seem to need the most.

[Wyrmnax]

Blur. Mass protection from elements.

Everything else is on a "Can i have XXX" basis.

[Zombiekenny]

If people want blur, they can ask. I give it if its a situation where the healer will be benefited by the 20% damage that people will take, if its not gonna be an issue then people aren't getting it without explicitly asking.

In my shroud example, its pointless, since harry has TS.


quickedit: I'm not a stickler for not buffing or anything, I just am not gonna waste my time hitting everyone with everything. I'm more often than not willing to give people even marginally-useful-at-best buffs if they ask, I just don't see a point in spending 5 mins making sure everyone is optimally buffed.

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This post does have content that not everyone will agree with, however, it is opinion based on reasons I list. It is not inflammatory, derogatory, disruptive, or trolling by any definitions of the words.
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