Mass Aid: Useful as a Mass Cure substitute?

[Antheal]

As Mass Cure Light Wounds is a 5th level spell, I'm not going to be able to get it until Level 9.

Although Mass Aid is a 3rd level spell, so I can get that at Level 5.

In people's experience, is Mass Aid very useful as a pseudo-Mass Cure, or is 13+ HP for 5+ minutes really not all that worthwhile for a spell of this cost/power after I get Mass Cure Light Wounds?

[Morningfrost]

In people's experience, is Mass Aid very useful as a pseudo-Mass Cure, or is 13+ HP for 5+ minutes really not all that worthwhile for a spell of this cost/power after I get Mass Cure Light Wounds?

It's a nice buff even later, it is a bless spell plus temporary hitpoints. Not a substitute for a mass cure, but added hit points are still hit points.

[PopeJual]

I'm a really big fan of Mass Aid.

It's extra hit points before you start getting beat on, so that's an extra cushion for people to use wandering into traps, running ahead without knowing the quest and all the other things that they do to make a cleric's life harder. Once I cast Mass Aid, I have a little extra reaction time between when their bar is full and when I have to put a stone in my backpack.

Additionally, Mass Aid carries "Bless" with it, so you can drop Bless from your memorised spells once you take Mass Aid. A greater variety of spells is a good thing.

[Bacab]

I generally use mass aid as a CLW Mass at early levels...and I keep it forever. I use it instead of bless since bless is kinda built in.

[Hjarki]

Additionally, Mass Aid carries "Bless" with it, so you can drop Bless from your memorised spells once you take Mass Aid. A greater variety of spells is a good thing.

Bless isn't a particularly worthwhile spell in the first place, since it's a morale bonus and doesn't stack with Bard songs, Monk finishers or Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism.

In terms of Mass Aid, this is a fairly good spell when you first get it since you are effectively 'healing' up to 23 hit points of damage to every member of the party. However, once you're at the level where you have Mass Cures, you probably also have Life Magic/Potency/Metamagic feats that affect actual healing but not temporary hit points.

So at level 20, your Mass Cure Light Wounds only heals 24.5 for 30 SP, while your Mass Aid 'heals' 23 for 20 SP. But once you add in Life Magic/Potency, your MCLW is 46.55 for 30 SP - and the discrepancy only grows bigger once you pile on the metamagic feats.

Despite the inefficiency, piling on temporary hit points can be very useful on the more frail members of your group since this can effectively negate the first hit of the few hits they end up taking, and giving you more time to keep them from dying.

[TheDjinnFor]

Edit: Apparently I'm wrong... will be back with testing.

[sirgog]

Since metamagics only affect the base healing, using metamagics after adding in life enhancements and potency actually lowers the efficiency of mass cure light wounds. Go ahead, calculate it out for yourself. If you think about it, potency+life boost the power of cures up 1.9 times, so your metamagics need 1.9 times more efficiency than normal. Suddenly what was efficient for level 4 (25 sp) spells, maximize, is now efficient only for level 9 spells (50 sp), and for level 3 (20 sp) spells, empower heal, moves to level 7 spells (40 sp). Go, calculate it out.

The real reason for using metamagics is that they increase your damage (or healing) per second, not because they are in any way worth the sp spent.

Not correct.

Metamagics stack multiplicatively with items and enhancements.

Maximize Spell and Empower Healing ALWAYS increase healing output per mana on Mass Cure Light through Mass Cure Critical. (Empower Spell is less efficient, and sometimes increases, sometimes decreases healing per mana).

Of course, if large amounts of that healing go to waste as overhealing, the metamagics may lose their lustre.


Example of how they stack:

Mass Cure Critical (4d8+20, with DDO's loaded dice that's an average of 46) with Superior Devotion 8 (+50%), Life Magic 4 (+40%) and Maximize Spell and Empower Healing:

Feats and enhancements: +90% - 46 becomes (46*1.9) which is 87.4

Metamagics: +100% (Max) + 50% (Emp H) = +150%. 87.4 becomes (87.4 * 2.5) = 218.5, game rounds to 219.


(This is further modified by the target's healing amplification - typically 120% for non-WF, non-human, non-monk melees, 132% for many humans and 78% for most WF melees; in all cases higher for Monks).

[TheDjinnFor]

Maximize Spell and Empower Healing ALWAYS increase healing output per mana on Mass Cure Light through Mass Cure Critical. (Empower Spell is less efficient, and sometimes increases, sometimes decreases healing per mana).

Of course, if large amounts of that healing go to waste as overhealing, the metamagics may lose their lustre.

I went and did some testing a couple months ago with enhancements, potency, empower, empower heal, and maximize all on, then with just enhancements and potency, and even made a huge thread on it. I'm not seeing how you got this, but I'll do it again just to be sure. In the meantime, I'll concede it to you, especially since this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232536) thread does too.

[Purgatory]

Ive used it several times as a mass cure spell at low lvls in those oh sht everyone taking dmg moments and cant heal them all and it saved the party manytimes. Later on its not so useful for healing since you will have mass cure spells.

[PopeJual]

Bless isn't a particularly worthwhile spell in the first place, since it's a morale bonus and doesn't stack with Bard songs, Monk finishers or Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism.


Bless is a great spell in the first place (as is Mass Aid) because at the levels where you're casting it, you don't have Monk finishers, Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism around very often and Bard songs only show up when Bards show up...

[AylinIsAwesome]

Ive used it several times as a mass cure spell at low lvls in those oh sht everyone taking dmg moments and cant heal them all and it saved the party manytimes. Later on its not so useful for healing since you will have mass cure spells.

I do this too.

Later levels I generally cast it at the beginning of the quest or right before I shrine.

[Visty]

it doesnt make bless obsolete as bless counters bane, aid doesnt

[sirgog]

I went and did some testing a couple months ago with enhancements, potency, empower, empower heal, and maximize all on, then with just enhancements and potency, and even made a huge thread on it. I'm not seeing how you got this, but I'll do it again just to be sure. In the meantime, I'll concede it to you, especially since this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232536) thread does too.

If you don't believe me, test it with the spell Heal, Superior Potency 6, Life Magic 4, no healing amp, and Empower Heal on and off.

285/427.

[Mirimon]

This is a spell I love at lower levels. In addition to what was mentioned, its a 'preemptive heal" and gives the more squishy members a larger buffer to avoid 1 hit kills. But the big boost is that it works at 100% even if the target is a war forged w/o healers friend, has a anti-healing enhancement or was cursed. Stack it with the divine healing and (possibly) unyielding sovereignty and it gave my cleric a work around during times that cure spells would've been to expensive. It also has the the side benefit of being able to get incapacitated characters back on their feet again, even if the target is a war forged that's immune to healing.

[Ybbald]

it doesnt make bless obsolete as bless counters bane, aid doesnt

Yeah I'll go use a spell slot for an obscure debuff that is short and doesn't have a hugly adverse effect
it's what, -2 attack and saves for ~30 seconds? They'll live

[Visty]

Yeah I'll go use a spell slot for an obscure debuff that is short and doesn't have a hugly adverse effect
it's what, -2 attack and saves for ~30 seconds? They'll live

-1 attack and saves for 30 secs per caster level. it can last long from higher mobs