For new guilds and their leaders.

[petegunn]

What does the term 'birds of a feather flock together mean to you'?

For me it means you associate yourself with individuals that have certain characteristics and values in common.

I’ll give an example. In real life when I go out drinking I go out with friends who know how to behave. Whilst we’ll have a good time, we do so in such a way it doesn’t detract from anyone else who’s not connected to our group’s pleasure on their night out. This is considered the social norm and not many groupings will tolerate idiots in their midst.

How does this apply to my guild? If you have an open policy to your guilds recruitment, there is a greater risk that somewhere you’ll take in the server degenerates (those people that have been blacklisted as greifers and general trouble makers)

What implications will this have on your guild? You will find the doors of opportunity close on you and your guilds members. Not so important early in the game but very important when it comes to later raiding and harder questing.

Back to the question at hand ‘birds of a feather flock together’ generally good folk group with good folk and idiots will associate themselves with each other, of course there will be exceptions to the rule.

This post was inspired by a thread earlier which I now believe is closed. The person under the server scrutiny was guilded, so not only does his bad behaviour reflect on himself it also has a knock on effect to the guild and persons who belong therein. Just some food for thought if you’re mindset consists of bigger is better.

Thelanis is a small place, the guilds that count know each other and word gets out fast as to who the trouble makers are. Reputation is everything.

[Alter]

word

[Renegade66]

Now, get the flock outta here.

[~Jules921]

Nicely stated.

Jules

[Tin_Dragon]

word

True dat.

[weyoun]

Nice post Pete. You would think this is common sense but it isn't. Again its about reputation. For example, if a new player from a relatively unknown guild with a mixed wizard build loots the Sword of Shadows, they will take criticism for it. If someone from an established guild does it, they are collecting items for their next incarnation. I'm not saying the discrepancy is justified, but those of us with a long history in game and thousands of hours invested have a lot less difficulty explaining our looting rationale than someone who is new.

If you are a new guild leader and you see a post like the one the one this thread refers to, you should pay attention. Especially if you are trying to make a good name for your guild (I realize that this sounds odd coming from me). You will not find acceptance in established raiding guilds runs if your guild is known for bringing the drama and bailing on people. DARPA, Pestilence, Legion, Storm Lords, Two Kings, United, Archangels, AVATAR, BotSS, Maelstrom, Inferus Sus all group with each other and raid with each other every day. News of bad apples spreads like wildfire. Blacklists are adhered to by most members, just because not allowing someone into group is the easiest way to mitigate the drama.

[Gunga]

Am I blacklisted?

[weyoun]

Don't know your toon names Gunga. If you PM me them I'll let you know.

[DoctorWhofan]

Am I blacklisted?

Yes.










Ok, you are not, but someone had to say it. :p;):D

You are not on any list of mine, but I run a semi-casual PuGging Guild so may not have played with you yet.

[Minor_Threat]

Unfortunately the ones that most need this advice are usually the most thick-headed.

[DoctorWhofan]

Unfortunately the ones that most need this advice are usually the most thick-headed.

And usually never reads the forums. As for all good advice posted here.

[Micron]

You should write a book, petegunn. Or hold some lectures somewhere exciting. A natural born philosopher.

[petegunn]

You should write a book, petegunn. Or hold some lectures somewhere exciting. A natural born philosopher.

I'll remain modest little micron, at the minute i'm studying social psychology and the social sciences. Fasinating insights into how people react with each other (only a first year student)

[lekkus]

I'll remain modest little micron, at the minute i'm studying social psychology and the social sciences. Fasinating insights into how people react with each other (only a first year student)

Even though I whole-heartily agree with your initial post and this is nothing personal, it only shows how out of touch you and some others are. I believe this individual was known for his behaviour by many others when he came in the lvl17 range weeks ago. And I certainly would not dream off letting him in any party or raid if I desired to make one.

It is also in a way, pretty much hypocrite when I see certain members off a former guild, now disbanded, who were just as rude and really grieving good playing or, at least trying, puggers in raids as a group, and are now trickling into the other raid guilds. Puzzling (..) stuff to me to be honest. Again, the word was out long before their final recruitment thread. 'Birds off a feather flock together' eh :)? Same thing for a certain individual who makes 'popular' threads all the time until you meet him in a party as untagged player and notice what an a ...well let's say at least bipolar person he is. Or hee, those few guilds who openly admit they take others in raids for comical relieve... how cool ;)

Trouble is those people know who to mess with and who not. I don't want to defend this person at all because I could give you a very nice screenie where he goes berserk to me as well but at least he did it to everyone ;) I also played a few times with other members off this guild who are very different and laid back which makes it kinda sad I too watch out for their guild tag.

Thelanis is not a small place at all. It is only for the few guilds who think they count, and then get this major surprise when an individual like this joins and dismiss a whole guild. After coming from Europe and now several reasonable geared capped (support) characters, still unguilded (not because I didn't had good offers or have a bad rep) I think you would really be fascinated how people react together, or even yourself, when you made a John Doe and eh.. played out the box :D

edit: spelling

[Chai]

Unfortunately the ones that most need this advice are usually the most thick-headed.

They also dont read the forums, so most of these rants are falling on deaf ears.

[Chai]

Also: Lumping all members of a guild into one category because of one eTard® is fail. Saying they wont get to raid is laughable, and talking about guilds "that count" is only entertainment for the "rest of us" who know better. Anyone can pug into any raid or epic just as much as guilds hold all guild member raids. No one is getting left behind because they wear the same guild tag as someone else who got your goat in some lamer thread back in ot six that no one else even remembers anymore.

You are not playing a game where high end content is only run by the privilaged enough individuals who were able to suck up enough to those "who count" to get in. Dig? The entire concept of a perceived "food chain" in DDO is high-frackin-larious when I see people trying to indicate that they belong to some 1337 gaming community. This mentality actually held water in an uninstanced game like EQ, or a tier level raiding gear game like WOW, where your pals all had to be wearing the same farmed tier level gear it took them a year or longer to earn to even hope to succeed in the next tier raids, but the mentality doesnt carry over here.

You will not be able to exclude anyone from being able to raid entirely because you got butthurt by something they said / did in some thread / raid eons ago. You will only be able to ensure they cant raid with you, and only if you are leading the raids.

[Eladiun]

Good post petegunn... It's interesting because I was pugging out in the Tomb of the Blighted and it wasn't going very well. It was four people from one guild I had no no real knowledge of and me and another pugger (4 of us had already short-manned a couple of the Shadow Tombs) . We are about 2/3 through after 1 wipe because of a /listen fail when one of the 4 from the same guild /ragequits. I was sort of blown away by it. (I was already taking a double re-entry penalty; once for the wipe and once because someone pulled hell to the front door on re-entry and I stepped out to heal. ) No one even acknowledged it in chat; it was like an elephant in the room. It was obvious from the start he was more experienced than a couple of his guildies. I so wanted to say something because I couldn't imagine a situation where I would do that to 3 guildies...it really turned me off that guild. Right, wrong, or indifferent... Since returning (my old guild is long gone) I have been trying to get a feel for what guilds I would be interested in so I have paid attention to interactions in pugs and how they treat other players. Some have acquitted themselves very well, some very poorly... think it's human nature to judge a group by the actions of it's members.

[petegunn]

Chai I think you've misinterpreted me, all I was offering was advice to guild leaders and prospective members. Don't read into what I typed too deeply Chai or perhaps you're the one thats butt hurt certain characterisitcs I mentioned may reflect on you?

[Ministry]

...

You will not be able to exclude anyone from being able to raid entirely because you got butthurt by something they said / did in some thread / raid eons ago. You will only be able to ensure they cant raid with you, and only if you are leading the raids.



As much as I believe the posts about people messing up raids and / or displaying other obvious poor attitudes and behaviours should be on display for others (appreciating the OP and similar posts - TY Pete) 2 things come to mind.

1 - As many have mentioned, most of the people displaying the worst attitudes and behaviours do not care to come out to the forums, thus the posts about them have little to no affect on them, but do help us who do.

2 - As Chai stated, one of the most salient points I've read - There is little you can do to exclude people from raiding. There are so many guilds not mentioned above and almost as many unguilded people that form and / or join raids, that stopping them from raiding / playing the game is almost impossible, and in the end, pretty much pointless. There are a few players in game that I have teamed with that I avoid. I may mention their names to my friends and guild, but in the end, 10 seconds after I mention it, they go on with their lives and game and it was almost a waste of time.

You can have blacklists and "friends" lists to help you out, but that's it. These things help you avoid them, but that's mostly when you are forming teams.

There are people I don't care for, but if they are on a team I'm joining, I just squelch them and play the game; unless they are horrific people, then I might mention to friends that I would just prefer to pass on the team and GL.

This is a relatively tight server and of the guilds listed a few posts ago... they do share resources and knowledge, so it does help to avoid those "less desirables". This is great for raids you want to guarantee, as you make up the raid from those guilds and people you know first, then post to the LFM, and anytime someone hits the LFM, you shout out their name in party to see if anyone objects.

In the end as in RL, some people you get along with, some you don't. Most aren't going away, so you just do your best to mitigate your experience with them as best you can.

[dasein18]

Can't you understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

People are people
So why should it be
That you and I should get along awfully
People are people
So why should it be
That you and I should get along awfully

So now theres differents colors
And theres differents breeds
And different people
Have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you
So what I could I have done

Can't you understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand


....or was it that I took YOUR loot? Sorry had this song in my head reading this post. I agree with OP...

[Renegade66]

You can have blacklists and "friends" lists to help you out, but that's it.

I actually blacklist my friends when they get on my nerves. Right now, Inspire and Drak are on my blacklist. Not that they did anything to deserve it . . . :D

[Deadslug]

You will not find acceptance in established raiding guilds runs if your guild is known for bringing the drama and bailing on people. DARPA, Pestilence, Legion, Storm Lords, Two Kings, United, Archangels, AVATAR, BotSS, Maelstrom, Inferus Sus all group with each other and raid with each other every day. News of bad apples spreads like wildfire.

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!1

Okay, this thread perked my interest. You'll notice that there are a lot of guilds very well established, with good reputations and good players not listed above. This list should prove a couple of points including Weyoun's point. I would like to piggy back on his point. It should be realized that there are different playing styles and different types of guilds. Every single one of the guilds listed above here has a reputation for High skill players, successful raids, and high raid knowledge. Some of them (not all) have reputations for low tolerence of people that are learning, or people not as skilled as them. That reputation is not entirely accurate. They do not generally mind helping people learn, but would very much like to know about the people that need help up front. They would normally not like to find out about it as the quest they counted on finishing today is failing. Raids like the shroud people count on completing as they need specific high level ingredients, and collect completions for their 20, 40 and such. A lot of the players from the guild lists above are really great at their game, and have every right to be very proud of themselves. They're pride is deserved.
Second thing that really needs to be echoed is that these guilds talk amongst themselves. But it does not stop there. There are other guilds that are very close. Established guilds with good reputations. Reputations for maybe other play styles. For Instance: Umber Hulks. Crimson Nexus. Fellowship of the Golden Night. Order of the Sword & Rose. Dawnswords. The Exploration Society. Sword of the Forgotten Heroes. Bane. Giant Slayers Inc. ACME Fighting Co. Knights of the Silver Dragons.
Any given Night, I talk to Leaders/Officers/Members of all of these guilds. We exchange guild members, party members, raid spots, friends, info about good players, info about bad players.... We talk about everything the game is to us.
If you are giving yourself or your guild a bad reputation..... We'll discuss it amongst ourselves too.
I will confess, that I would not be considered by anyone to be an elite high lvl raider. I have completed the Shroud a couple of times, have my Greensteel tier 2 Greatsword and my Greensteel tier 2 necklace. I would argue that ALL quests Lvl 7 and below, I could be considered not only an expert, but a master. So what?? I have been having fun.
I'm sure there are many guilds that I haven't remembered to mention here, but there are countless mini-guild-alliances across Thelanis. Bad rep's race fast.

I'm Nineteen Zerothirtyseven, and that's what I think.

[Vint]

This morning I was running a pug Vision. Everything was going good, about 7 different guild tags. A certain player decides not to listen to the leader or anyone else and makes an arse out of himself. We got thru the raid without much problem but the fact others had to pick up the slack for this guy was ridiculous.

It really bothers me that we are called "jerks or elitest" for dealing with these buttholes. When you log on to the game By all means: go RP WW for 3 hours, zerj a quest in 2 mins do as you see fit, whatever makes the game fun for you. Playing with the above mentioned is not fun for me or anyone else. When we are forced to not mention names, all we are doing is letting these people ruin 30 mins or more in quest or raids

[weyoun]

Also: Lumping all members of a guild into one category because of one eTard® is fail. Saying they wont get to raid is laughable, and talking about guilds "that count" is only entertainment for the "rest of us" who know better. Anyone can pug into any raid or epic just as much as guilds hold all guild member raids. No one is getting left behind because they wear the same guild tag as someone else who got your goat in some lamer thread back in ot six that no one else even remembers anymore.



We certainly do exclude entire guilds because of the actions of a few. That is not to say, however, that we will not re-evaluate those guilds/players once they have learned what is expected. I'm not trying to keep anyone out of any raid except for my own. The individual that Pete is referring to was exceptionally anti-social and vindictive. That is more of the persona that we are talking about. If more than one person from the same guild exhibits that behavior, I am obliged to spread the news that this is a person/guild that you have to look out for. Do I care if they raid with others, not at all. I just want my friends to know that they are/can be trouble. My buddies also happen to be the best players on Thelanis.

[Alter]

My favorite raid leader as of recent was micing his water bong as he poked his smot.

Then when he died in part 4 of the shroud he didn't want to give directions for part 5. Wasted everyone's time as much as he could.

Not sure how I would rate this as a leader? More like "look at me waste everyone's time hour" Then get ****y when people grow to a mutiny.

But i'm an elitist so I should have to deal with that...


Alter

[Lewcipher]

Peter, have you been drinking lad?

[Waukeen]

Peter, have you been drinking lad?

rhetorical question much? :D

as for pete's OP thesis, it makes much sense.

that being said, I love the new guilds gathering up so many players and putting a big tag above their heads.

it makes PuG life so much smoother when I can blindly decline folks without a tinge of remorse because of their guild tag :D

Its like meat market bars, they gather up the people that I don't want showing up at my local hole in the wall pub.