Noob Wizard mistakes

[Ybbald]

What are any mistakes someone new to the wizard class might make?
Low con/no fort would be one

Also:
What is spell resistance?
What meta-magic feats are useful? I don't really understand what heightening does. For my wizard bonus feats, should I take the magic school focus or one of the mental toughness feats after I've got all my metamagics?

Thanks :)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Spell Resistance is a defensive measure possessed by some monsters, and obtainable by players through loot and magic (or being a drow, though it's subpar).

If a monster has SR, they will be resistance to some of your spells. Mostly the non-damaging ones, so crowd control or instant death effects. You roll 1d20 + caster level + any feats, items, and enhancements you may have. If you meet or exceed the SR, your spell breaks through and is then subject to it's normal Saves or whatever it may have or do. If you are low, the mob has a blue shield effect on them to show you failed.


What Heighten does is increase your spells' effective level. So at level 20, turn on Heighten and that level 1 spell is now a level 9 spell. The cost goes up equal to a level 9 spell, but the benefit is that the DC monsters have to save against goes up as well, by one per level it heightened. It's to make lower level spells have a higher, more useful DC at higher levels.

[Shishizaru]

What are any mistakes someone new to the wizard class might make?
Low con/no fort would be one

Also:
What is spell resistance?
What meta-magic feats are useful? I don't really understand what heightening does. For my wizard bonus feats, should I take the magic school focus or one of the mental toughness feats after I've got all my metamagics?

Thanks :)

No INT would be another. :P
But seriously, if you just max INT, put as much into CON as you can, then throw the rest into STR (or possibly CHA), you'll be fine there. Make sure you max your Concentration. Skill points in Balance and Spot are nice for when you get tripped (because you will get tripped). UMD is always nice, although the half-ranks kind of suck.

Spell Resistance is another form of defense against magic. If a spell is subject to Spell Resistance (SR), a caster must meet or exceed the target's SR to hit with the spell (I believe the check is 1d20 + caster level + any bonuses via feats/items/enhancements). If the spell is ALSO subject to a save, the target will roll on the save only if you first break the SR.

Heighten raises the DC's for your lower level spells. Other things held constant, a level 20 Wizard's Charm spell has the same DC as a level 1 Wizard's Charm spell. With Heighten, however, the level 20 Wizard's Charm would get ramped up to a level 9 Spell, and would consequently have a much higher DC.

Charm's DC is: 10 + spell level (1 without Heighten, 9 with it) + your INT modifier

So you can kind of see how it will help with DC's.

As far as feats are concerned, I'd suggest getting Toughness ASAP (not magic related, but you'll die less often). Then it kind of comes down to preference. I like focusing on Crowd Control instead of straight up damage, so I chose to take Extend and Heighten early. If you want to do damage, Maximize and Empower are good. I'd suggest getting at least Mental Toughness before you get all the Meta's you want though. The Meta's will make your SP pool seem even smaller, so Mental Toughness might be of more benefit to you early on.

Just my opinion though. I play a terrible Wizard. XD

[Newtons_Apple]

What are any mistakes someone new to the wizard class might make?
Low con/no fort would be one

Also:
What is spell resistance?
What meta-magic feats are useful? I don't really understand what heightening does. For my wizard bonus feats, should I take the magic school focus or one of the mental toughness feats after I've got all my metamagics?

Thanks :)

Heighten increases the spell level of the spell you are casting to your current caster level. This is important in terms of the (difficulty check) of the spell in question. Let's take web for example:

Web is a lvl 2 spell- so the dc for a mob to get stuck in it would be 10 + spell level + int bonus. Assume you have an 18 intel - this would make the dc 10 + 2 + 4 = 16.

Fast forward to you being a level 20 wizard. High level mobs have higher saves. So heighten allows you to cast web (a 2nd level spell) as a spell of the highest level you can cast - level 9. So now the dc becomes 10 + 9 + 4 = 23. It's this feat that makes web and other low level spells a viable spell in end game content.

SR is a mobs defense against spells - often referred to as an armor class for spells. Some spells allow for an SR check against it before a saving throw is rolled. A mob's SR is always a static number that you the caster have to meet or beat to overcome it. Your SR check is called spell penetration and is rolled as d20 + caster level + spell level + any other bonus you may have. The spell penetration and greater spell pen feats give you bonuses to spell pen; you can also find items that have a spell pen bonus on them.

[Surcus1]

Not taking toughness as a feat is a mistake, since you need more hp(assuming you are interested in elite raids/epic questing eventually, that is).

Heighten makes all your spells act as if they were cast as a spell of the highest possible level you can cast from (9th-level if 20th level), which makes your DC for low-level spells much better.

[Ybbald]

ok thanks

Is the feat that makes damage spells do 50% more damage useless? Should I just skip it and get the one that doubles the damage?

Is UMD really all that useful? On my rogue, I have it and I use it for healing wands, using arcane scrolls/wands, and bypassing restrictions on my one disrupter mace. Since a wiz won't need umd for arcance scrolls/wands and I'm thinking about going halfling w/ the dragonmarks, healing isn't a problem. And UMD for wearing equipment doesn't seem very useful.

[hydra_ex]

ok thanks

Is the feat that makes damage spells do 50% more damage useless? Should I just skip it and get the one that doubles the damage?

Is UMD really all that useful? On my rogue, I have it and I use it for healing wands, using arcane scrolls/wands, and bypassing restrictions on my one disrupter mace. Since a wiz won't need umd for arcance scrolls/wands and I'm thinking about going halfling w/ the dragonmarks, healing isn't a problem. And UMD for wearing equipment doesn't seem very useful.

Take empower for sure. It stacks with maximize.

[Ybbald]

So then they would do 150% more damage for 40 extra spells points? nice ;o

[hydra_ex]

So then they would do 150% more damage for 40 extra spells points? nice ;o

Not exactly sure how they stack, tbh. It might be 150%*200%= 300% spell damage = 200% more damage.

[Shishizaru]

Not exactly sure how they stack, tbh. It might be 150%*200%= 300% spell damage = 200% more damage.

While I have no first hand experience testing out the damages, apparently it's "additive" not "multiplicative." I.e. You add the percentage modifiers, they don't affect each other. So Maximize and Empower together would net you 150% increase in damage.

See: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2371978 (post 1, number 2)

[Ybbald]

ok so here is what I've got so far:

halfling
true neutral
lvl 20 wiz

int maxed at 18
con probly at 16 or so with a couple extra points into str

feats:
1: least dragonmark of healing
wiz1: extend

3: toughness

wiz5: maximise

6: lesser dragonmark

9: greater dragonmark

wiz10: heighten

12: ?

wiz15: empower

18: ?

wiz20: ?

Are there any other non-magical feats it would be good to have? (like toughness)
Mental toughness doesn't seem ot be worth it. 25 sp at lvl 20
Eschew materials isn't worth it since it doesn't work on spells w/ expensive material
I read somewhere a breakdown on casting speed and I don't remember it exactly, but I remember quicken for wizards let them cast a spell like .25 seconds faster per spell level which doesn't seem like very much, so that doesn't seem very good.
Enlarge doesn't seem very useful except for beholders. But the anti-magic beam comes from their front eye, so if you tell the melees in your group to get them to turn around or you can get behind them, you can safely banish them, right?

which just leaves the spell penetration and school focus feats left.

Did I miss anything?



Not exactly sure how they stack, tbh. It might be 150%*200%= 300% spell damage = 200% more damage.

I thought of that, but I think shish is right

[Shishizaru]

Are there any other non-magical feats it would be good to have? (like toughness)
Mental toughness doesn't seem ot be worth it. 25 sp at lvl 20
Eschew materials isn't worth it since it doesn't work on spells w/ expensive material
I read somewhere a breakdown on casting speed and I don't remember it exactly, but I remember quicken for wizards let them cast a spell like .25 seconds faster per spell level which doesn't seem like very much, so that doesn't seem very good.
Enlarge doesn't seem very useful except for beholders. But the anti-magic beam comes from their front eye, so if you tell the melees in your group to get them to turn around or you can get behind them, you can safely banish them, right?

which just leaves the spell penetration and school focus feats left.

Did I miss anything?




I thought of that, but I think shish is right


Non-magical feat: Insightful Reflexes
It's worth it to consider taking this, as your DEX is probably 8. Your Reflex save will suck.

Mental Toughness: I believe this is 10 SP at first level, 5 per level after. That's a lot more then 25.

Don't take Eschew. You're correct that it's not worth it. Might be convenient, but there are better feats out there.

Not sure about Quicken and Enlarge. Enlarge seems like a "take it if you have room" kind of thing. Quicken seems a bit more useful.

Spell Pen would be useful for high level/epic content, where you absolutely need all the help you can get to breach SR. Not sure if it's worth it to take the Schools as I've no experience with them.

[Ybbald]

dex would be 10 as a halfling, but thanks for the idea

[MysteryNotes]

So then they would do 150% more damage for 40 extra spells points? nice ;o

Yup, and with the right items and enhancements it only costs another 17 more SP to maximize AND empower a spell.
Maximize(11sp)
Empower(6sp)

Capstone for wiz(lvl20) reduces ALL meta sp costs by 1.
Gloves of the glacier - 4sp cost reduction for Maximize
Ring of Thelis - 2sp cost reduction for empower

Improved Maximizing -9sp cost
Improved Empowering -6sp cost.

Maximize(25-9-4-1)
Empower(15-2-6-1)

[Kam-Ekaze]

You should also consider Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and Spell Focus: <School of choice>

Mental and Improved Mental toughness will increase your max spell point pool. Spell penetration and greater spell penetration add stacking bonuses to your spell penetration which is required to bypass the high spell resistance (SR) scores mentioned above. Spell Focus will increase your DCs for spells in that magic school for free. For example, Spell Focus: Necromancy, will increase your spell DCs (difficulty check) for all spells in the necromancy school.

You can check what school certain spells belong to by checking their spell description.

[Newtons_Apple]

ok so here is what I've got so far:

halfling
true neutral
lvl 20 wiz

int maxed at 18
con probly at 16 or so with a couple extra points into str

feats:
1: least dragonmark of healing
wiz1: extend

3: toughness

wiz5: maximise

6: lesser dragonmark

9: greater dragonmark

wiz10: heighten

12: ?

wiz15: empower

18: ?

wiz20: ?

Are there any other non-magical feats it would be good to have? (like toughness)
Mental toughness doesn't seem ot be worth it. 25 sp at lvl 20
Eschew materials isn't worth it since it doesn't work on spells w/ expensive material
I read somewhere a breakdown on casting speed and I don't remember it exactly, but I remember quicken for wizards let them cast a spell like .25 seconds faster per spell level which doesn't seem like very much, so that doesn't seem very good.
Enlarge doesn't seem very useful except for beholders. But the anti-magic beam comes from their front eye, so if you tell the melees in your group to get them to turn around or you can get behind them, you can safely banish them, right?

which just leaves the spell penetration and school focus feats left.

Did I miss anything?




I thought of that, but I think shish is right

Put off the lesser and greater dragonmarks until 9 and 12, take empower at level 1 and extend at level 6. In other words, save extend for when it will really matter - 1 level after getting haste.

remember you get 2 feats at 15 - so take spell pen and greater spell pen (if it's allowed) If not, think about a school focus at 15.

[Ybbald]

ok thanks
I wasn't sure what order to get the meta magics in

also, I need school focus: necro to get palemaster
Necrotic touch looks awesome
the metas will affect it, right?

[Shishizaru]

ok thanks
I wasn't sure what order to get the meta magics in

also, I need school focus: necro to get palemaster
Necrotic touch looks awesome
the metas will affect it, right?

I do not believe the Meta's will affect Necrotic Touch. I also believe it may be argued that, in its current form, Pale Master may qualify as a "noob wizard mistake." By which I mean it has a lot of bugs and a lot of (more or less) useless abilities.

[Ybbald]

Well even if you don't use the summons and only get the first tier, you can an at will spell effect that does 1d6 negative damage per caster level. and the cooldown isn't very long. So that could save some spell points if you needed to finish off a mob that had low hp left

[Trillea]

Well even if you don't use the summons and only get the first tier, you can an at will spell effect that does 1d6 negative damage per caster level. and the cooldown isn't very long. So that could save some spell points if you needed to finish off a mob that had low hp left

Personally I think the 4 APs there would be better spent on things like damage boosters for fire/ice or metamagic SP reducers. You'll get WAY more out of that in the long run.

[Shishizaru]

Personally I think the 4 APs there would be better spent on things like damage boosters for fire/ice or metamagic SP reducers. You'll get WAY more out of that in the long run.

I concur. While Necrotic Touch is one (of the few) aspect(s) of Pale Master that is actually decent, I don't think it's worth the 4 AP's. I know I'm banking a bunch of AP's as I level my Wiz specifically for those Meta reducers (even first tier is kinda costly). Well, that and a bunch of the Wiz Enhancements at low levels seem worthless to me XD.

[Ybbald]

I just read several threads on it

I think I'll try it and if I don't like it, I get a free feat swap from the dragonmark quest and resetting enhancments isn't to expensive

[Muldamai]

At the lower levels, the Pale Master stuff is ok. About level 9 or 10, or so, it just doesn't work very well. The cost you pay for what you get is pretty high, so either everything else is overpowered or Pale Master is underpowered, and I lean to the latter.

[Sutekx]

At the lower levels, the Pale Master stuff is ok. About level 9 or 10, or so, it just doesn't work very well. The cost you pay for what you get is pretty high, so either everything else is overpowered or Pale Master is underpowered, and I lean to the latter.

Pale Master is just something to play with enhancement wise. The feats for it does help with WoB and FoD (SF: Necromancy, GSF: Necromancy)

Four basic meta-magics to chose:
Maximize
Heighten
Empower
Extend

Eschew Materials - Laziness meta-magic feat, if you take it just make sure you swap it out before level 17. As for high levels being rich from quests, depends on what you spend it on, it can save some in the long run, but it is not needed.

Spell feats:
SF: Necromancy
GSF: Necromancy

or for end game (even though acid spells do lack compared to fire, ice, lightning)

SF: Conjuration
GSF: Conjuration

I would advise against Evocation, if playing for end game, due to the Regalia of the Phoenix having it (Inspired Quarter - Mindsunder quest), then Greater Evocation when the suppressed power is unlocked (Dreaming Dark).

Take these feats also:
Toughness
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Insightful Reflexes

Most of the time you will see yourself in the Shroud, so necromancy and/or conjuration will help out.

[entropiccanuck]

Looks pretty good. Some suggestions- the spell pen. feats are very much worth it in later levels (~vale, so 15+). My wiz is a WF, and for the first ~10 levels Ray of Enfeeblement was my biggest cause of death. It does a max of 11 pts of str damage, so if you have 12, you won't be helpless. You can have less, but then you need a +str item. A few points in str also helps protect you from the str draining undead in some places.

The main benefit to quicken isn't so much that it casts faster but that you can't fail a concentration check when getting beat on. Usually that's not relevant, but when it is, it can be a life saver.

[Anderei]

also, I need school focus: necro to get palemaster


palemaster is another error :) (at least what i hear is consensus)

[oweieie]

palemaster is another error :) (at least what i hear is consensus)

The only thing of any use at all out of pale master is shroud of the lich. A DC 41+ unbuffed wail lets you quickly blow through elite eye of the titan solo without needing consumables. You'll still get plenty of resists in shavarath, sadly, but it won't be COMPLETELY useless.

Supposedly some negative energy for wizard is coming in update 5 to make some of the negative energy boost aspect of pale master not a ridiculous joke. Not holding my breath.

[Sutekx]

Looks pretty good. Some suggestions- the spell pen. feats are very much worth it in later levels (~vale, so 15+). My wiz is a WF, and for the first ~10 levels Ray of Enfeeblement was my biggest cause of death. It does a max of 11 pts of str damage, so if you have 12, you won't be helpless. You can have less, but then you need a +str item. A few points in str also helps protect you from the str draining undead in some places.

The main benefit to quicken isn't so much that it casts faster but that you can't fail a concentration check when getting beat on. Usually that's not relevant, but when it is, it can be a life saver.

The two other feats I did forget to mention, good catch for spell penetration and greater spell penetration, all the ones I listed plus these will fill out all the feats for a wiz up to lvl 20.

Enfeeblement wasn't too bad for me since I used a +1 str tome early on, but I am glad since heroic surge that feeblemind has a time limit on it now since that was my killer in sands without a cleric/or cleric hireling while soloing the slayer.

Just to touch on Quicken, it's a nice spell but if your concentration is maxed it shouldn't be an issue on getting hit, especially if you are kiting the mobs, and diplomacy to shift aggro off you. Unfortunately diplomacy doesn't work against Suulamands(sp) in VoD ... yes I tried and lived as an experiment.

Just to also touch on Enlarge meta-magic as well, it is very quest specific feat to use, which works well in Invaders ranging beholders with finger of death. It's a nice feat that you can also use in Against the Demon Queen for walls of fire on ledges if avoiding the blades, but for end game, it is not really needed, like quicken for a wizard.

I can advise if you use those two meta-magics, before hitting level 17 swap them out for better feats because the flawless or is it exceptional (?) siberys dragonshard is a pain to make after you hit 17 to do a feat swap so you don't have to LR due to needed to change feats.

[Praxian09]

In ddo there's actually a lot to a wiz.

One of the biggest I've seen is a wizard simply not bothering to get all their spells when they level up to a new spell level. Sure, it's expensive. Sure, it's obnoxious. But, it is also one of the best things that Wizzies have going for them, and that is to know every arcane spell in the game.

Stat order of importance:
Int > Con > Dex > Cha > Wis / Str (imho).

Right now my lvl 10 wiz has a 30 int. huge I know, but all my spells are 20 + spell level to resist. Big bonus! :D

If you want pale master stuff later in the game, I'd reccomend making all enhancements visible and writing down the pre-reqs before you take too many levels. This way you can in fact take appropriate feats before you get the EP's to get your enhancements you want to buy.

*thinks*

Warforged as an arcane caster can self-heal, but you'll be very familiar b/c there are tons of wf wizards / sorcerers simply because they can self-heal.

Highly reccomend getting Enlarge and Maximize as early as possible (followed by extend and mental toughness for your spell points).

For humans:
1 Maximize
1 Enlarge
3 extend
5
6 mental toughness

Spell Components!

When you can afford it (shouldn't take too long honestly), seperate a taskbar and load up on the last page of your inventory with spell components (1000 a stack if possible). It sounds crazy, but nothing stinks more than not having what you need to cast repair for a self-heal, or that fireball / firewall / lightning bolt / whatever at the mob to help your party wipe them out instead of you just standing there cheering the team on.

But once you've moved all your spell components to the last page, drag them over to the now seperate bar and set it off to the side of the screen. This serves the main function of you can see how many spell components you have. And if you start to run low, after an adventure - go buy more! :)

If you're prone to forgetting about spell components make sure and take eschew materials and be prepared to simply pay a lot of mana for less spells.

Depending on your race, you may look into dragon-marks. Humans get more choices than the rest. warforged and drow don't have any dragonmarks. Dragonmarks are nice because depending on what you have, you have mana-less spells that can either transport, heal, protect, or a small variety of other things several times a day.

From what I've seen, popular belief is that they're useless. But a mana-free spell in the right place may save you or your parties life (like the House Orien dragonmark that gives Dim Door - free portal to the start of the dungeon that may save your party so they can heal up and make your way back through the dungeon to where you were giving you a second shot at the enemy (who unless they have a healer are still lower on hp's than they were).

As other have said, Toughness and other HP increasing things are always good.

lastly, have fun with teh class. Wizards are easily the most modified class in the game 'cuz you change your spells out when you rest at a shrine or go to an inn and bam - you change your gear out for what you want and you can be sir-nukes-alot or sir-buffs-alot (or master conjurer, or enchanter-of-kobolds, you get the pic).

[Ultrazen]

The biggest mistake I see most wizzes make, is starting with too low of a str, there are number of reasons you want 14+ str if you can get it into your build.

1. Getting debuffed sucks, and it will happen a lot. Having your str reduced to zero does all kinds of nasty things to you, and at higher levels can be pretty much a death sentence.

2. The best way to level a wizard until you get firewall, is to cast masters touch, equip the best 2 hander you can find, and melee mobs down. This is an effective strategy all the way through end game on trash mobs. Having a 14 starting str will give you enough to hit to take care of trash mobs with melee, which is a huge mana saver, something that becomes more and more important in tough quests where the shrine is a long way away.

Those are my best new wiz tips for this early in the morning lol.

[Ybbald]

or just bull strength yourself and save those valuable ability points

[Ultrazen]

or just bull strength yourself and save those valuable ability points

Starting with 14 STR and then adding buffs and items, will keep your to hit valid throughout the game for trash mobs.

It's just me I suppose, but I played a low str wiz and hated it, for a number of reasons. The other thing is, what valuable ability points? Dex is a waste due to insightful reflexes, and your wis and cha are never going to be high enough to make any difference, so what's the point? If you're trying to jam CHA for a UMD break I suppose so, but it's never been a problem for me.

/shrug 14 str 18 con 18 int and the rest dump on a warforged is a fun toon, maybe it's just me.

[oweieie]

Starting with 14 STR and then adding buffs and items, will keep your to hit valid throughout the game for trash mobs.

Not really. Please don't tell the noobs to melee. It's like telling the fighters to splash wizard so they can use chain lightning scrolls to do spell damage. Very very very bad advice.

[Ybbald]

I'm almost lvl 5 now and I'm having a huge amount of fun with this build.
The dragonmarks let me solo a lot of the low level stuff which is great cause low level PUGs can be annoying

also, I just destroyed a lvl 6 wizard repeatedly in pvp
I had prepped spells just wiz and I didn't even need to. I swapped out made armor and shield for nightshield and ray of exhaustion, but I never got a chance to see the ray work cause I went: scorching ray, ray of exhaustion, scorching ray, boom he's dead :D

[Galapas]

Not exactly sure how they stack, tbh. It might be 150%*200%= 300% spell damage = 200% more damage.

Maximize and empower add.
Potency and manipulation add.
However, (potency+manipulation) multiply with (maximize+empower)

So, you can get (100%+50%+40%)x(100%+100%+50%)= a 475% damage. The crit multipliers (as high as 2.75) can bring it over 1300%.

[sephiroth1084]

Just to touch on Quicken, it's a nice spell but if your concentration is maxed it shouldn't be an issue on getting hit, especially if you are kiting the mobs, and diplomacy to shift aggro off you. Unfortunately diplomacy doesn't work against Suulamands(sp) in VoD ... yes I tried and lived as an experiment.


Quicken is very important endgame. You can't safely kite the shadows in ToD without it, and even a high Concentration skill won't cut it all the time in epic quests and high-level raids. It's certainly not something to leave on very often, but when you can gain a benefit from it, the feat is HUGE. I'd recommend picking up by level 18.

[infernalmagiks]

Not really. Please don't tell the noobs to melee. It's like telling the fighters to splash wizard so they can use chain lightning scrolls to do spell damage. Very very very bad advice.

No its not. The ability to melee even a little is extremely useful, even up to higher levels.

While learning about sp conservation a new wiz/sorc is going to run out of sp. It will happen. What then? Have them stand back and watch the rest of the party or pull out a greataxe and swing away?

It's nothing like fighters splashing wizard. Firstly the wizard doesn't need to splash to hurt stuff and secondly he can do much more damage with a weapon than the fighter/wiz can do with a scroll.

In Sins the other day on my Sorc started getting low on SP, so began to throw out Mass Holds and pulled out a Heavy Pick. Did the job.

[sephiroth1084]

In Sins the other day on my Sorc started getting low on SP, so began to throw out Mass Holds and pulled out a Heavy Pick. Did the job.
I think the issue here is that there is a big difference between indicating that a caster should be going in to melee, and a caster going to melee stuff that it has rendered harmless. Unless you're built to do so, generally wading into combat on a caster is a bad idea. On the other hand, running in to take out a target your have paralyzed or stoned is a fantastic use of your time and energy.

Heavy picks are good for their big crits (don't care about range since you'll be hitting stuff that is in auto-crit status). There are a few other choice weapons for this task, such as the Dreamspitter, which you can use to neg-level immobilized monsters to death.

[oweieie]

No its not. The ability to melee even a little is extremely useful, even up to higher levels.

No, it's not. It's downright stupid.


While learning about sp conservation a new wiz/sorc is going to run out of sp. It will happen. What then? Have them stand back and watch the rest of the party or pull out a greataxe and swing away?

Pulling out the greataxe is brain damaged. You have no concept of the amount of damage a proper melee does with a weapon and the pathetic amount of damage a wizard does. Going in and doing practically nothing but costing the cleric SP to heal you is very bad playing. Telling newbie wizards to do it is harmful.


In Sins the other day on my Sorc started getting low on SP, so began to throw out Mass Holds and pulled out a Heavy Pick. Did the job.

So you're low on SP, but you can mass hold... which is different from what you do when you're not low on SP how exactly? And no, it didn't "do the job", you hitting a couple times for 50 damage each is not even 5% of what real melee were doing. You didn't "do the job", you just fooled yourself.

[ddoer]

it seems to me new players like to share their views to other new players.



Stat order of importance:
Int > Con > Dex > Cha > Wis / Str (imho).

...

Right now my lvl 10 wiz has a 30 int. huge I know, but all my spells are 20 + spell level to resist. Big bonus! :D

If you want pale master stuff later in the game,

..

Highly reccomend getting Enlarge and Maximize as early as possible (followed by extend and mental toughness for your spell points).
....

If you're prone to forgetting about spell components make sure and take eschew materials and be prepared to simply pay a lot of mana for less spells.

....

Depending on your race, you may look into dragon-marks. ... like the House Orien dragonmark that gives Dim Door


for WF, only Int and Con are important. for fleshy, you have to balance between Con and Cha to get a high UMD for heal scroll.

"spell ... to resist" - when u use spell and resist in the same line, it is usually refer to spell penetration/resistance. Praxian09 is talking about spell DC instead. Spell DC for wiz is calculated as: 10 + Int modifier + spell level + gear + feats. for a Int 30 (+10 modifier) wiz to have 20 + spell level DC, it means he is not holding any spell focus gear which could be a "noob wizard mistake". e.g. if you cast a fireball, hold a evocation focus weapon.

pale master is a useless PrE

Enlarge could be funny to play with, but there is no practice need for it. So, i would consider it as a waste.

eschew materials is a joke. Wiz seems to have a lot of feats but it doesn't mean they should take a feat without practical value. Get a school focus feat (or an extra toughness for non-class feat) if you really have no better way to use your feat.

the only useful dragonmark is halfling. for a wizard, it is pointless to consider DD dragonmarks. And even for halfling dragonmark, spending 3 feats is too expensive IMHO.


The biggest mistake I see most wizzes make, is starting with too low of a str, there are number of reasons you want 14+ str if you can get it into your build.

... Having a 14 starting str will give you enough to hit to take care of trash mobs with melee, which is a huge mana saver, ...


or just bull strength yourself and save those valuable ability points

agree with Ybbald.

getting a str 14 for melee is a complete waste of ability points. Your melee damage from Str won't make a meaningful difference in end game. with divine power + gh + master touch, you should be able to hit most trashes, and for those you can't hit, the extra 2-3 to-hit from strength won't make a difference. For both to-hit and damage, get a better weapon such as a +4/5 Greater XXX bane instead.

The only reason you want a high str is that you definitely can't fit in a str item in your gear slot. for the majority of new players, they won't have issue to fit a +6 str item. For my drow, I put 2 ability points to str with an initial str of 10. With a +2 tome and +6 str gear (I use Gnawed ring (occult slayer) anyway), I end up to have a str of 18 that gives zero benefit over str 16.

You shouldn't allocate ability points just for the first levels. Besides, it is a better idea to learn how to use spell to kill mobs in low level. Vets use spells like Niac to kill mobs in low level. if you run out of spell points, use stuff like eternal acid wands.


Starting with 14 STR and then adding buffs and items, will keep your to hit valid throughout the game for trash mobs.

... and your wis and cha are never going to be high enough to make any difference, so what's the point? ...
/shrug 14 str 18 con 18 int and the rest dump on a warforged is a fun toon, maybe it's just me.

compare 14 str with 8 Str, you get +3 to-hit and damage per swing. It is not a meaningful difference to a caster as we are suppose to melee often.

14 str 18 con 18 int is fine for WF. but for fleshy, they can't self-reconstruct and need UMD. And for WF, 8 str 20 con 18 int will give you +20 hp.


Maximize and empower add.
Potency and manipulation add.
However, (potency+manipulation) multiply with (maximize+empower)

So, you can get (100%+50%+40%)x(100%+100%+50%)= a 475% damage. The crit multipliers (as high as 2.75) can bring it over 1300%.

from the last update, superior potency is kinda obsoleted. Superior Potency gives +50% to damage while superior inferno/freeze/spark/eroison/impact clickie/potion gives +75%. For the majority of cases, using clicke/potion is a better choice. The main exceptions are disintegrate and some L6+ spells that you don't have a clickie yet.



Quicken is very important endgame. You can't safely kite the shadows in ToD without it, and even a high Concentration skill won't cut it all the time in epic quests and high-level raids. It's certainly not something to leave on very often, but when you can gain a benefit from it, the feat is HUGE. I'd recommend picking up by level 18.

agree with sephiroth for both of his two posts.

[KoboldWithTnT]

Pulling out the greataxe is brain damaged. You have no concept of the amount of damage a proper melee does with a weapon and the pathetic amount of damage a wizard does. Going in and doing practically nothing but costing the cleric SP to heal you is very bad playing. Telling newbie wizards to do it is harmful.


Hey there, I started a wizard a few days ago, let me give you a bit of advice, since, y'know, I don't have any high level characters (15+) and I started playing very recently, so I fit into that 'newbie wizard' group.

As a low level caster, you want to melee. It's that simple.

Buff yourself up and melee things. Seriously, it's not rocket science. If you know more or less what you're doing (hacking stuff and hiding from range) then you might even beat up more stuff than a fighter or barbarian.

What you don't seem to see is that, unless you are running on elite, mobs at lower levels are not hard to hit. On top of that, add in that at lower levels, fighters and barbarians don't have all the goodies that make then awesome bulldozers and you're pretty even.

Now, by no means do I say that a making a melee wizard build is a good idea, but you will want to melee, or have a group carry you.
If you choose to have the group carry you, well, you're costing the other guys time, sp and any resource they will use.

[Sutekx]

Hey there, I started a wizard a few days ago, let me give you a bit of advice, since, y'know, I don't have any high level characters (15+) and I started playing very recently, so I fit into that 'newbie wizard' group.

As a low level caster, you want to melee. It's that simple.

Buff yourself up and melee things. Seriously, it's not rocket science. If you know more or less what you're doing (hacking stuff and hiding from range) then you might even beat up more stuff than a fighter or barbarian.

What you don't seem to see is that, unless you are running on elite, mobs at lower levels are not hard to hit. On top of that, add in that at lower levels, fighters and barbarians don't have all the goodies that make then awesome bulldozers and you're pretty even.

Now, by no means do I say that a making a melee wizard build is a good idea, but you will want to melee, or have a group carry you.
If you choose to have the group carry you, well, you're costing the other guys time, sp and any resource they will use.

If I wanted to melee when I was a low level caster, I wouldn't have rolled a wizard. What about the use of charm or even web if you are in a group, so that those low level melees will look like awesome bulldozers?

[MithrilSoul]

Hey there, I started a wizard a few days ago, let me give you a bit of advice, since, y'know, I don't have any high level characters (15+) and I started playing very recently, so I fit into that 'newbie wizard' group.

As a low level caster, you want to melee. It's that simple.

Buff yourself up and melee things. Seriously, it's not rocket science. If you know more or less what you're doing (hacking stuff and hiding from range) then you might even beat up more stuff than a fighter or barbarian.

What you don't seem to see is that, unless you are running on elite, mobs at lower levels are not hard to hit. On top of that, add in that at lower levels, fighters and barbarians don't have all the goodies that make then awesome bulldozers and you're pretty even.

Now, by no means do I say that a making a melee wizard build is a good idea, but you will want to melee, or have a group carry you.
If you choose to have the group carry you, well, you're costing the other guys time, sp and any resource they will use.

The only issue with giving true noobs this advice is...if they spend all their time at low levels meleeing mobs, then suddenly you are going to have lvl 10+ or 15+ or 18+ wizards running around who don't even know the basics of how to play a spellcaster in the game.

In any MMO that I can think of, playing a caster has a larger learning curve to it than just about any other class. The early levels--whether solo or in groups--is where noob wizards make noob wizard mistakes...and (of course) hopefully learn from those mistakes. So that by the time they get up to the mid- and high-levels, they have learned all the important lessons about what to do, and not do, as a caster.

If they don't make those mistakes as lvl 4 players, they are going to make them as lvl 10 players. Or level 15, or 18, or 20. When the price of one of those mistakes is going to be much, much higher.

[gwlech]

Hey there, I started a wizard a few days ago, let me give you a bit of advice, since, y'know, I don't have any high level characters (15+) and I started playing very recently, so I fit into that 'newbie wizard' group.

As a low level caster, you want to melee. It's that simple.

Buff yourself up and melee things. Seriously, it's not rocket science. If you know more or less what you're doing (hacking stuff and hiding from range) then you might even beat up more stuff than a fighter or barbarian.

What you don't seem to see is that, unless you are running on elite, mobs at lower levels are not hard to hit. On top of that, add in that at lower levels, fighters and barbarians don't have all the goodies that make then awesome bulldozers and you're pretty even.

Now, by no means do I say that a making a melee wizard build is a good idea, but you will want to melee, or have a group carry you.
If you choose to have the group carry you, well, you're costing the other guys time, sp and any resource they will use.

The fact of the matter is, melee coupled with some basic CC is the easiest way to level an arcane before wall of fire. One can easily load up on bulls, rage, haste, masters touch with a greataxe and exceed the kill count of many other melee characters without even trying. Why? There is really no huge difference between a low lvl barb and wizard in terms of melee prowess. Do I advocate a melee wizard? Hell no. It has its time and place, and when I get wall of fire on an arcane, I ditch the greataxe and it grows rusty in my backpack.

If you started with more str on a wizard/sorc, its not going to hurt anything. Other than your casting stat and Con, everything is just gravy. I know that being tripped or enfeebled sucks, and having that extra str at low lvls especially really helps new players, and in no way will "gimp" a character endgame.

Simply put, if I am in a group with an arcane who becomes worthless when he/she runs out of sps, that person isn't around much longer.

[ddoer]

... One can easily load up on bulls, rage, haste, masters touch with a greataxe and exceed the kill count of many other melee characters without even trying. Why? There is really no huge difference between a low lvl barb and wizard in terms of melee prowess. Do I advocate a melee wizard? Hell no. It has its time and place, and when I get wall of fire on an arcane, I ditch the greataxe and it grows rusty in my backpack.

If you started with more str on a wizard/sorc, its not going to hurt anything. Other than your casting stat and Con, everything is just gravy. I know that being tripped or enfeebled sucks, and having that extra str at low lvls especially really helps new players, and in no way will "gimp" a character endgame.


/not signed

"There is really no huge difference between a low lvl barb and wizard in terms of melee prowess." :eek: you could define huge difference has 1,000 more dmg per swing and then say there is no huge difference in the end game too.

I just created a normal L4 dwarf DPS barb with veteran status to test. With all starter equipment, it could rage to Str 25 (init str 18, +1 in leveling, +1 gear, +5 barb rage), with damage boost 2 (+3 damage), axe damage 1 (+1 damage), and with THF feat (that adds glancing blow damage). The +1 starter greataxe is 1d12, i.e. roughly 6.5 mean base damage.

compare to a wiz, say, a human wiz with str 14, con 16, int 18. with the same starter greataxe, on every swing, the barb deals 9 more points of base damage per swing with the same greataxe. I consider 9 points of additional damage over a 6.5 base weapon damage is huge.

both the barb and wiz could use bulls, rage, haste.

I think you have no clue in the difference between melee and caster at all. While both a caster and a melee type could use melee mean to kill mobs, it doesn't mean both of them have similar melee power. besides, the caster is more likely to get killed due to his low hp.

for a fleshy caster, putting points in str mean sacrifice of HP or UMD for self-healing in end game. the str ability points are likely to be waste in end game because you may use an gear that come with str +6 anyway.

[Astarte269]

I must agree with ddoer. Saying that at low levels a wizard and a barbarian are equal in melee is plain wrong. Not to mention that rolling a wizard and even considering beeing a melee at any time or level is, in my opinion, outrageously silly. If you want to melee there are other classes that does it far better.

My recently rolled wizard is far more effective at killing stuff using burning hands/scorching ray with an easy to get +50% fire damage clickie scepter than any melee I have met thus far. Just saying.

[Kyln]

I have a few questions for those of you who are able to cast your way through early levels. As a new player I rolled a rog/wiz wf build with max intelligence and high constitution. I took mental toughness and scholar enhancements. I found I still did not have enough spell points to get through a lot of quests if I tried to blast my way though. Is this a result of the one rogue level on spell points? Are you using twink gear to get more spell points or more damage from your spells? Is it a matter of knowing the quests well enough to aggro everything and then blast at a choke point?

Now that I have firewall, I am trying to break my use of melee, but sp conservation is still tricky. I am wondering if playing a wizard well is highly dependent on knowing the quests ahead of time: you get exactly the right spells and know exactly where to use them. This is challenging for a new player, who is often facing things for the first time and trying to adapt on the fly. For the early levels, I found self buffs and a two-handed weapon were very forgiving. Just cut down trash mobs and blast/web big guys/bosses.

One of the concerns I have as a new player, and for other new players, is the suggesting of a course of play that requires a lot of knowledge about a quest ahead of time. Even guides only help so much before you actually do a quest, and I am not convinced everyone is going to be keen on reading a write-up before they do every quest.

Other than an alignment error, I have tried to avoid the major new player mistakes. I probably could have spent my spare attribute points better, but I do have max intelligence and a high constitution. I find playing a wizard to be rewarding, and I want to get the most out of it. That is why I am trying to figure out how some of you are able to play through content so differently from how I did, when that avenue didn't seem to work well for me. The more I know about how to play a good wizard, the better my experience is my philosophy.

[DANTEIL]

I am wondering if playing a wizard well is highly dependent on knowing the quests ahead of time: you get exactly the right spells and know exactly where to use them. This is challenging for a new player, who is often facing things for the first time and trying to adapt on the fly.

Speaking as a relatively new player who has until recently played pretty much exclusively as a wizard, I can definitely say that this has been my experience. The first time through a quest, especially the high-level quests, I am often either running out of SP (because I don't know where the next shrine and/or big fight is going to come) or using the wrong spells (because I don't know yet what kind of tactics will be effective in a given situation). Sometimes I can get helpful input from other players in group on these matters (although not always -- I've been in a couple of wipes where my thought afterward has been "Gee, I could have been more help to the party there if someone had told me ahead of time what to prepare/do/expect"), but often there is no substitute for hard-earned experience. The first time (or several times) through, I am usually just trying to catch up and still do what I can to help out and stay alive.

[sephiroth1084]

I have a few questions for those of you who are able to cast your way through early levels. As a new player I rolled a rog/wiz wf build with max intelligence and high constitution. I took mental toughness and scholar enhancements. I found I still did not have enough spell points to get through a lot of quests if I tried to blast my way though. Is this a result of the one rogue level on spell points? Are you using twink gear to get more spell points or more damage from your spells? Is it a matter of knowing the quests well enough to aggro everything and then blast at a choke point?
Try to acquire +SP items, and more importantly, try to acquire Greater or Superior items or clickies for your primary damage spells, but keep in mind that blasting your way through a quest is almost never the best way to completion for a wizard.

Compare the effect of throwing one Magic Missile vs. one Charm Person: the latter will almost always result in at least one dead monster (as the charmed dude's friends beat the snot out of him), while the former may not deal enough to kill even one crittur. Mass damage spells tipped the scales a bit, but not far enough to justify that playstyle as a primary means to beating a quest.

Also, [I]what you charm can dramatically improve the efficiency of your spells. If you grab a kobold shaman in Butcher's, for example, you've just spent 10 SP for free crowd control and nuking (Cause Feat, Hold Person, Fog Cloud, Acid Orb, Scorching Ray, Lightning Bolt) and will probably get 2-4 monsters dead for that one spell.

Knowing good choke points can help, but you don't necessarily require foreknowledge to use the gather and blast tactic effectively. Look around you for usable choke points or places where you can put some distance between you and monsters you may be kiting in order to assemble a sizable pack. Try not to hit the first group you come upon with whatever AoE spell you have, but set-up as much as you can in the area first. Web + Acid Blast is a great combo for this.

If you are soloing, try using stealth tactics. Sneak + Invisibility (wand, scroll or pot, not from SP) + Melf's Acid Arrow = WIN. Hell, Melf's is a dramatically underutilized spell; against anything with a lot of HP, and particularly against high-HP, high-threat targets (ogres, trolls and most bosses), Melf's is much more efficient use of your mana than Fireball. Hit the thing you want dead, then kite it until that goal has been achieved.

Remember, though, you don't have to kill everything in order to complete most quests, so crowd controlling stuff and running by can work in a lot of instances.

When grouping, my philosophy at low levels was that I shouldn't be spending more than 2 spells per encounter, whether you're talking Web + Acid Blast, Web + Haste (Haste will almost always be better damage per SP spent than any other spell you cast, including firewall much of the time), Web + Otto's (for the dangerous target that avoided the web)...notice a trend?...2 Fireballs for particularly dangerous groups, whatever. After light buffing (I tended to keep myself buffed with Blur, Jump, Nightshield and Expeditious Retreat, as well as any necessary resists, while only tossing the absolute necessities to others) you won't have enough SP to be dominating every encounter.


Now that I have firewall, I am trying to break my use of melee, but sp conservation is still tricky. I am wondering if playing a wizard well is highly dependent on knowing the quests ahead of time: you get exactly the right spells and know exactly where to use them. This is challenging for a new player, who is often facing things for the first time and trying to adapt on the fly. For the early levels, I found self buffs and a two-handed weapon were very forgiving. Just cut down trash mobs and blast/web big guys/bosses.

One of the concerns I have as a new player, and for other new players, is the suggesting of a course of play that requires a lot of knowledge about a quest ahead of time. Even guides only help so much before you actually do a quest, and I am not convinced everyone is going to be keen on reading a write-up before they do every quest. Obviously knowledge helps, but it isn't absolutely necessary, and much of what you need to know can be gleaned from actually reading what the person who bestows the quest tells you as they tend to inform you of what monsters you'll be in store for. Also, think about what else you have faced in a particular area and level range--if you're heading into a quest found in a graveyard, expect undead, a refinery, expect constructs, etc... While there are obviously quests that separate themselves from others in their zone, many tend to adhere to a particular theme (almost every Harbor quest features kobolds and oozes for example).

Also, wands and scrolls can help smooth out your spell selections. Resist is just as effective off of a wand as it is self-cast (accounting for 7th and 11th level wands for when the spell upgrades). Protection from Elements and Mass Prot are excellent off of a scroll. Blur is available on wands. Try to save spell slots and SP for spells that have DCs or deal damage. And try to keep some of the universally useful spells prepared as often as possible:
-1st: Charm Person, Jump, Nightshield
-2nd: Web, Otto's (unless you expect a lot of undead, constructs or vermin)
-3rd: Haste, Suggestion, Acid Blast (many more fire resistant or immune monsters than acid resistant/immune)
-4th: Wall of Fire, Fire Shield (though scrolls work pretty well), Solid Fog, Dimension Door...

[Angar]

First thing you have to understand, before all else, is the role of your caster. A wizard is traditionally a "tool" for a party to take care of specific tasks. You may very well find yourself waiting for the group to deal with mobs, wondering if there is something to do. In times like that, slinging a wand is not a bad option. While you can build your toon to play outside that role, you will be hard pressed to maintain good SP conservation at any level.

If you are after a "nuker", someone who can lay down a LOT of damage very fast, then I suggest you roll a sorc. The wiz can, with the right skills and equipment, be just as good as a sorc for a short period of time, but in the long run just simply can't keep up. This is NOT to say that a wiz and sorc aren't interchangeable at any level of the game, just that playing a wiz the same way will probably cost you a lot of money in SP pots in the end. When I play my wiz the way I play my sorc, I find myself short on SP long before any shrines come up. It is an easy mistake to make, particularly if you go from a high level sorc to a high level wiz from one quest to the next. You remember in a hurry that they are not the same.

That being said, in my opinion, barring any Role Playing choices, there are two choices you will have to make: Whether to take 2 levels of rogue, and whether to go WF, Human, or Drow. Human and Drow are the two races that offer the highest possible INT, and since your SP and DC are based on that stat, you would have to seriously question taking another race. Drow offers the ability to reach 42 int without a +4 tome, and Human gives you the chance to get to 40 with only a +2 tome and also gains an extra feat. WF offers, above all else, the ability to self-heal while not really sacrificing INT. If you take any other race, you are giving up either SP and DC or the ability to heal yourself. It can be argued that 1 point of DC is not that important, or that other classes can still hit 40 INT at level 20, but the flexibility of a human is a strong point when you consider you are playing a class whose strongest ability is that of flexibility. That extra feat is nice too.

As far as the 2 levels of rogue.. the only reason not to take them would be to have firewall 1 level earlier and to gain 1 point of DC with the capstone. You gain evasion and the ability to disable any trap in the game, PLUS you can gain 10 more UMD. Yes you lose a couple spell slots, but there isn't much in the level 8 and 9 spell slots that you really need. If you go that route, put your spare points into dex and start level 1 with rogue, taking the second at level 9 or 10. This is important so you can maximize your skills, particularly Concentration, UMD, Disable, Search, and Spot.

For feats, I take everything except eschew. Enlarge doubles the range of spells.. I can't tell you how many times that has come in handy. Yes, beholders are super easy with enlarge, and it isn't a spell like maximize or extend that is practically left on all the time once you hit the higher levels, but it is a feat I was hesitant to take and now wouldn't want to be without it. Also, I don't see a reason not to take at least one feat in necromancy. FoD and WoB are the most SP efficient means of killing for a wizard. Even in Amrath, using energy drain and FoD can kill faster and more efficiently than any DD spell. It leaves the option to take the PrE open without having to respec a feat, and doesn't have a downside in my opinion. Toughness, Mental Toughness, Imp Mental Toughness, and Insightful Reflexes are all a given.

Melee: Any time a wiz pulls out a weapon, dons a shield or armor, and wades in to combat, I cringe. Having two high level healers, all I can say is that they become a mana sink, and do not benefit the group in any way. You are FAR better off wielding your eternal acid wand, doing 8-10 damage every time you sling it, because unless you have a 16 str (14+tome), a divine power clickie, and a +5 weapon, you are never even going to hit anything in the upper levels, and even if you do, you will miss more than hit, and do maybe 10-15 damage when you do hit. Put the weapons down, you don't know how to use them. I am currently leveling a wf wiz/rog, and on any quest above level 3, I can't hit anything with melee often enough to justify getting into melee range. Yes, I have met some wizards (with fighter levels) who can melee very effectively, but their build is very specific to their function, and NOT a "noob" build.

Points: Max INT, 16 into con, and if you have a 32 pt build, the rest is up to how you want to play. If you are worried about being enfeebled, put a few points to STR. Dex would be ONLY for the rogue splashes, and is a complete and utter waste for a pure wiz, serving absolutely no function whatsoever (hence insightful reflexes). Wisdom is not a bad choice if you want a little more will save. CHA is good if you are not WF, but keep in mind that currently a wizard can use a heal scroll with zero UMD (this will be fixed someday, so don't build your toon around it). At level 20, you should be well over 300 hp. If you are not, then you did something wrong. You can easily get to 2000 SP at level 20, but it will go fast since you will have to have Maximize and Empower on at all times to even think about DD's or FW. This is why FoD and Wail are so important to a wiz..

In the end, you can build your wizard however you want, and within reason you will have a viable toon to play any quest. Just remember that anything you do to diverge from the idea of maximizing your assets (diversity and DC) and minimizing your deficiencies (SP, slow casting), will have an impact that needs to be considered before you act. It can take dozens of hours to reach level cap (more if you stop to enjoy the game) and it is a shame when you get there and realize you made some critical errors and have to start over. Thank God for LR and GR.

[sephiroth1084]

For feats, I take everything except eschew. Enlarge doubles the range of spells.. I can't tell you how many times that has come in handy. Yes, beholders are super easy with enlarge, and it isn't a spell like maximize or extend that is practically left on all the time once you hit the higher levels, but it is a feat I was hesitant to take and now wouldn't want to be without it.
I admit that I've never tried it, but there have been so few places where I would have liked the extra range that I can't imagine this being a particularly worthwhile use of a feat slot.


Also, I don't see a reason not to take at least one feat in necromancy. FoD and WoB are the most SP efficient means of killing for a wizard. Even in Amrath, using energy drain and FoD can kill faster and more efficiently than any DD spell. It leaves the option to take the PrE open without having to respec a feat, and doesn't have a downside in my opinion.
SF: Necro can be useful until you hit Amrath, at which point ED+FoD is pretty effective even without spending a feat, and there are plenty of monsters immune to death spells in Amrath, not to mention everything in epic quests. I'd only take SF: Necro if you don't mind planning on swapping it for SF: Enchant later in the game as Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Suggestion/Mass Suggestion, Dominate and Mass Hold are all very useful.

Also, just to clarify, SF: Necro shouldn't be taken until you acquire Finger of Death.

Toughness, Mental Toughness, Imp Mental Toughness, and Insightful Reflexes are all a given.
Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness are nice to have early in the game, but not really worth hanging onto all the way up to cap. I'd go so far as to say that one should probably skip grabbing IMT entirely in order to facilitate swapping out MT down the road more easily.


Melee: Any time a wiz pulls out a weapon, dons a shield or armor, and wades in to combat, I cringe. Having two high level healers, all I can say is that they become a mana sink, and do not benefit the group in any way. You are FAR better off wielding your eternal acid wand, doing 8-10 damage every time you sling it, because unless you have a 16 str (14+tome), a divine power clickie, and a +5 weapon, you are never even going to hit anything in the upper levels, and even if you do, you will miss more than hit, and do maybe 10-15 damage when you do hit. Put the weapons down, you don't know how to use them. I am currently leveling a wf wiz/rog, and on any quest above level 3, I can't hit anything with melee often enough to justify getting into melee range. Yes, I have met some wizards (with fighter levels) who can melee very effectively, but their build is very specific to their function, and NOT a "noob" build.


Eh. While I'm not a big proponent of meleeing wizards in general, it can definitely be very useful. On my first wizard (pure drow), I did virtually zero meleeing until I acquire a Dreamspitter (raid quarterstaff), and even then typically only on CC'ed stuff, but I do occasionally wade into combat vs. some stuff and can take out single targets much faster with that than I could with a wand.

On my second wizard (2 rogue splashed WF), I planned on meleeing a little bit more and made sure to keep a decent DPS quarterstaff on hand at all times. I found that I was doing much less of this in Gianthold, but had been fairly successful up to that point so long as I stayed buffed with things like Blur and sometimes Displacement. If you're soloing, I'd recommend only meleeing stuff you have crowd controlled, but in a group, go hop on the back of anything someone else already has the attention of. Master's Touch + a greataxe would be better than using a quarterstaff, but I like the attack animation with staves. :)

Oh, and both of my wizards began with an 8 Str, and the drow can hit orthons and devils in Amrath quests on about a 5+ self-buffed.

The one thing to keep in mind if you are planning on meleeing at all, is that you have got to take care of yourself. No healer is going to be happy healing your squishy ass while you're being foolhardy. Drink your own pots, keep your defensive buffs up, manage your aggro, etc...

[Kyln]

Thank you for the replies.

I do use CC, and found that charm person was golden for all of Korthos and most of the market. Sometimes i was having a hard time getting it to land on difficulties above normal, but I guess that is to be expected. I still love web, and maybe because I am new, but I have found glittering dust to be pretty good at reducing the threat of melee mobs.