Bring Back WDA

[Aspenor]

All aspects of Epic traps (Spot/Search DC's, Saves, Damage) have been modified to be slightly higher than Elite instead of insanely higher.

Too bad this wasn't released before SableShadow deleted his only character and quit the game. A little more transparency by Turbine would go a long way toward veteran player retention and alleviating frustration.

At the very least I'd like to see a "development goals" type post from Turbine every update, it need not be weekly.

[Gunga]

I think they've adopted an unwritten policy to drive pesky Vets away from the game. It's like a bad marriage; the wide-eyed abandon of a spring break fling is so much more appealing than the battleworn battleaxe demanding milk on the way home.

[Karrantine]

This is why, if keeping a character costs you nothing, deleting it is a bit stupid.

[totmacher]

I think they've adopted an unwritten policy to drive pesky Vets away from the game. It's like a bad marriage; the wide-eyed abandon of a spring break fling is so much more appealing than the battleworn battleaxe demanding milk on the way home.

gungalagunga

[Lerincho]

At the very least I'd like to see a "development goals" type post from Turbine every update, it need not be weekly.

Saddly, what if these "development goals" actually gave insight into the fact that more and more vets will be driven away?

[Eladiun]

Too bad this wasn't released before SableShadow deleted his only character and quit the game. A little more transparency by Turbine would go a long way toward veteran player retention and alleviating frustration.

At the very least I'd like to see a "development goals" type post from Turbine every update, it need not be weekly.

Yet another example of why not to /ragequit... If I would have deleted all my stuff I would have had no stuff when I came back.

[Lerincho]

Yet another example of why not to /ragequit... If I would have deleted all my stuff I would have had no stuff when I came back.

it was not a rage quit. there is a multitude of reasons for his departure, as with others. if the love/fun for the game is completely gone, why prolong it?

[Aspenor]

it was not a rage quit. there is a multitude of reasons for his departure, as with others. if the love/fun for the game is completely gone, why prolong it?

True, there was a multitude of reasons. Trap DC's was just one (albeit I think it was the "straw that broke the camel's back).

Other reasons include lack of new high level content (epic does not count), the appearance of class favoritism, and the ridiculous grind that DDO has become.

[Impaqt]

I'll never understand why anyone would delete their character in a F2P Game.

Yes, Brenna/Sableshadow was a good player and an asset to DDO in general.

but sometimes people leave games. In a week, we will rarely see his name around here. He will be forgotten just as the many other vets that left the game have been forgotten.

Yes, his guildies will miss him. Even other friends he made on the server he played on. but overall, he wasnt that important to DDO. No one person is.

It would of been REAL nice to have at least one dev say, "We hear ya on the Trap DC's and will be doing something about them" But I doubt it would of made that much of a difference.

[Krag]

This is why, if keeping a character costs you nothing, deleting it is a bit stupid.

Actually I'm more and more convinced that deleting is the most wise decision.
Too bad I lack the resolve to press that red button.

[lolwatboomer]

I think they've adopted an unwritten policy to drive pesky Vets away from the game. It's like a bad marriage; the wide-eyed abandon of a spring break fling is so much more appealing than the battleworn battleaxe demanding milk on the way home.

+rep :D

[Karranor]

Yes please, bring back the WDA.

[Gunga]

gungalagunga

Ah, the way the sweat rolls off your pasty forehead and down your greasy auburn locks.

Tot.

[Kadran]

your opinion is not welcomed or warranted on this matter.

I really hope that was intended as humor that went over my head. -.-

[KualaBangoDango]

Too bad this wasn't released before SableShadow deleted his only character and quit the game. A little more transparency by Turbine would go a long way toward veteran player retention and alleviating frustration.
it was not a rage quit. there is a multitude of reasons for his departure, as with others. if the love/fun for the game is completely gone, why prolong it?

True, there was a multitude of reasons. Trap DC's was just one (albeit I think it was the "straw that broke the camel's back).According to the above comments the time of the announcement should not matter in the least since there were other reasons why Sable left. If an earlier announcement of this would have kept him from deleting his character then that is evidence that he rage-quit since someone who is not rage-quitting would still keep their character "just in case" no matter the current state of the game.


This is why, if keeping a character costs you nothing, deleting it is a bit stupid.Agreed. There are really only two reasons why someone would delete their characters on a free account.

1) Rage-quit
2) Want to get away from the game and avoid being tempted to come back (ex. gaming addiction, etc)

If Sable deleted his character due to #1 then we should not try and deny it. If it was because of #2 then it shouldn't matter what changes Turbine makes or when they make announcements cause the guy needs to stay away anyway.

[Lerincho]

Want to get away from the game and avoid being tempted to come back (ex. gaming addiction, etc)


he was "done".

[Kadran]

he was "done".

We get it, you were close with SableShadow. That's not what this thread was about. He was merely sited as a most-recent example in the OP.

[Kalari]

Sigh must one topic always be turned into something else to fight over?

I for one second the opening of communication even if its stuff we do not want to hear.

I think some of us were lucky to be around back in the day when the devs could tell us things.

I hope that the wda was really stopped for nda reasons but I do miss knowing what to look forward to, I miss the communication and I missed feeling like the devs were at least trying to make us feel like we were apart of the gang by participating.

yes the forums is a volatile place always has had its contentious lot, but back when the wda was present back when the devs would pop in and make comments felt good and I miss those days. I think the wda coming back would be a big step in making us a whole community again instead of this fractured mess weve been lately.

Secrets, Surprises and the like has not worked knowing what we are getting knowing you care will stand out better imo.

[Borror0]

I think they've adopted an unwritten policy to drive pesky Vets away from the game.
If so, they are doing an excellent job...

[ArkoHighStar]

there needs to be something that outlines upcoming changes, even if it is in a broad tone, and gives no specific date of release. At least we will know it is coming. We know they can release stuff, Eladrin likes to make a game out of it.


Even 1 or 2 things a week, add them to the Chronicle(then it will atleast be useful), let the list grow, and remove as they are put into production.

[KualaBangoDango]

he was "done".Exactly. And, since he WAS done (the second example I listed), having these changes announced earlier should not make any difference to him whatsoever. If he would have kept his character "if only he knew about these changes earlier" then that means he wasn't really "done" and just wanted some changes to make it fun to play, in which case he should have kept his character "just in case" the changes were ever made.

[Gunga]

it was because of #2

I'll say.

[Borror0]

Exactly. And, since he WAS done (the second example I listed), having these changes announced earlier should not make any difference to him whatsoever.
You're arguing against a close friend of his. Do you honestly think you're in a better place to know SableShadow's train of thoughts than him?

In any case, it's very visible that Brenna left in great part because he was sick and tired of Turbine doing the complete opposite of what he suggested to do. Brenna's been vocal about the issues the rogue class faces - for years now. Yet, Turbine never addressed them or did the exact opposite. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2827881&postcount=51) Seeing them slowly "getting it" might have alleviated his frustration enough to keep him around.

[Lerincho]

thank you Borror.

[Aspenor]

You're arguing against a close friend of his. Do you honestly think you're in a better place to know SableShadow's train of thoughts than him?

In any case, it's very visible that Brenna left in great part because he was sick and tired of Turbine doing the complete opposite of what he suggested to do. Brenna's been vocal about the issues the rogue class faces - for years now. Yet, Turbine never addressed them or did the exact opposite. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2827881&postcount=51) seeing them slowly getting it might have alleviated his frustration enough to keep him around.

What he said. So far, nobody that has posted in this thread knows his train of thoughts as well as I do. Of course, none of his guildies have posted yet, so that's the only reason that remains true.

Citing his exact frustrations would be against the Forums rules. I'd prefer it if people that don't know *anything* would avoid trying to argue with those that know more.

[Lerincho]

Hey Asp, speaking of WDAs. Biggest gripe about them was that they weren't updated weekly. Usually it was just a copy & paste job without showing the new items. I agree it would be nice to see what exactly is going to happen moving forward; as I think many are starting to question the forward thinking capabilities of certain indviduals.


When will they learn/comprehend that while you do not have to show all your cards all the time, give some inclination as to what we can actually look forward to.

[Karrantine]

I still say that deleting your character in an F2P game is a bit of a foolish thing. If you really don't want to play again, you won't; the character isn't going to tempt you. But if you later decide to come back, you have it right there waiting for you. Deleting your character is a bit of a lose-lose situation except in the case of genuine addicts.

To the main point, though. I too would support seeing more-complete release notes before the update is launched, and I'd love to know what Turbine is working on ahead of time. It's that sort of advance warning that helps people adapt to negative changes more smoothly than they might otherwise, and it helps keep wavering players around if they have an idea what the 'next big thing' might be. It gives people time to consider things they'll need to do - Spells they might need to swap out, equipment they might want to make, or character builds they want to play with. The only bad thing about it from Turbine's standpoint is that it can build unrealistic expectations about new content, which will then disappoint people who have gotten caught in the hype machine that tends to get rolling on forums like these.

[TheJusticar]

Too bad this wasn't released before SableShadow deleted his only character and quit the game. A little more transparency by Turbine would go a long way toward veteran player retention and alleviating frustration.

At the very least I'd like to see a "development goals" type post from Turbine every update, it need not be weekly.

+1 Absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. So many of us have begged to have DWA back only to fall on deaf ears. It's pretty **** upsetting they haven't when so many vets have but begged for it. And, really, what's the point of NOT having them? I thought the whole secrecy and vast a mysterious nonsense was behind us by now?

[Lerincho]

It's that sort of advance warning that helps people adapt to negative changes more smoothly than they might otherwise, and it helps keep wavering players around if they have an idea what the 'next big thing' might be. It gives people time to consider things they'll need to do - Spells they might need to swap out, equipment they might want to make, or character builds they want to play with. The only bad thing about it from Turbine's standpoint is that it can build unrealistic expectations about new content, which will then disappoint people who have gotten caught in the hype machine that tends to get rolling on forums like these.


While I appreciate the thought behind what you are saying; the past would beg to differ with you. I will paint some examples for you.

Lava change. From being able to swim in lava with resist on to the huge amounts of damage. People talked about it like it would be the end of the world and end of running DQ.
XP Death Penalty change. Timed debuff was too much; risk of permanent damage to equipment was too high.
Human Versitility change. From passive to a clickie. This was going to end the running of humans in game forever.
Raid Loot Mechanic. From guaranteed 2, to chance of getting zero - 12 items. This was going to break the game.
Action Point & enhancement change. From 4 per level to getting a total number of action points to purchase enhancements with.


Bottom line is where there is change there will always be negative backlash.

[Borror0]

And, really, what's the point of NOT having them?
It's a time-consuming process. Whoever is in charge of them has to check and recheck to make sure that what he or she announces will indeed be in the next update and is not risking to be revised or omitted due to bugs. The gains would have to be worth the efforts and that is not an automatic thing.

[Gunga]

I'd prefer it if people that don't know *anything* would avoid trying to argue with those that know more.

Yeah. Except that this is a *public* forum where *Brenna* announced departure.

I am inclined to understand the pov that deleting your toon is hasty. Or wasteful?

Waste not, want not?

Haste makes waste?

Something like that.

JD is back. Wigs was back, again. I hope Brenna comes back. At least levelling to 20 the first time is a breeze. :D

[TheJusticar]

The gains would have to be worth the efforts and that is not an automatic thing.

What's your point exactly? Is it ever in doubt that the gains of having WDA would outweigh the effort it takes to do?

[Borror0]

What's your point exactly? Is it ever in doubt that the gains of having WDA would outweigh the effort it takes to do?
I believe Turbine thinks the WDA is too time-consuming for too little reward.

[Gunga]

What's your point exactly? Is it ever in doubt that the gains of having WDA would outweigh the effort it takes to do?

Administratively? Of course. Otherwise it would be here.

[Lerincho]

I believe Turbine thinks the WDA is too time-consuming for too little reward.

only because they cannot understand nor appreciate the trust that it establishes. the attempt at openness with the player base.

[Gunga]

only because they cannot understand nor appreciate the trust that it establishes. the attempt at openness with the player base.

No. They're smart.

They know that we will never, ever, ever be happy with the way that they release info about new projects.

No company does any more than what Fernando has been doing. PR junkets that give a glimpse of greatness.

That's it.

[Borror0]

No. They're smart.

They know that we will never, ever, ever be happy with the way that they release info about new projects.
Their reasoning is most likely less simplistic than that. After all, if the WDAs have greater faith in Turbine and make us more likely to forgive than mistakes (that's the effect it had on me) on a a large number of players, then it would have a use. If the number of players positively affected by the WDAs is insignificant or not large enough, then it makes sense to cut it.

Improvement is improvement. No need for perfection.

[kaelis]

/signed.


Not entering the Brenna Arguements again, but will repost this:



But you'll have excuse me while I remain bitter over this. One word of confirmation from the Multitude of times it was asked and people tried to get a dev response, or even an acknowledgement that this wasn't a WIA plan forever would have been awesome. The fact that it's just 3 days to late kinda feels like a slap to the face too.

[ArkoHighStar]

No. They're smart.

They know that we will never, ever, ever be happy with the way that they release info about new projects.

No company does any more than what Fernando has been doing. PR junkets that give a glimpse of greatness.

That's it.

your kidding right, you know how many dev diaries LOTRO alone has had.

[Yaga_Nub]

/signed.

Bring back WDA! plz.

[Gunga]

your kidding right, you know how many dev diaries LOTRO alone has had.

I'm sure your very happy with LOTRO, than.

This whole WMD is really a waste of time, Arko. Sorry.

Yet another salary for some scrub with a notepad to run back and forth between development, marketing and operations, departments who are communicating as little as possible, who now have to make time for this guy who's gonna paraphrase in order to cram it all on one succinct public newsletter that they all then have to live up to.

It's a lose for everybody.

You've got the state of game. They've been updating stuff faster than I can loot it all.

If you need something to read, hit a library. You'll be better for it.

Reading through this thread brings it all rushing back.

[ArkoHighStar]

I'm sure your very happy with LOTRO, than.

This whole WMD is really a waste of time, Arko. Sorry.

Yet another salary for some scrub with a notepad to run back and forth between development, marketing and operations, departments who are communicating as little as possible, who now have to make time for this guy who's gonna paraphrase in order to cram it all on one succinct public newsletter that they all then have to live up to.

It's a lose for everybody.

You've got the state of game. They've been updating stuff faster than I can loot it all.

If you need something to read, hit a library. You'll be better for it.

Tho' I've belted you and flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din

[Gunga]

Tho' I've belted you and flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din

I didn't say Google, I said read, ffs.

OMG learn something.

[Newtons_Apple]

I didn't say Google, I said read, ffs.

OMG learn something.

Did you know that the Obsidian Swords the Aztecs used were so sharp they could cut the head off a Conquistador's horse?

[ArkoHighStar]

I didn't say Google, I said read, ffs.

OMG learn something.

I have read it among other works by Kipling, but I wouldn't expect you to know my reading habits, the quote seemed apt and well placed based on you previous comments

[Gunga]

I have read it among other works by Kipling, but I wouldn't expect you to know my reading habits, the quote seemed apt and well placed based on you previous comments

I thought so, too. I lol'd.

Here. I'll rep you for a more tangible display of my appreciation.

EDIT. You just negged me didn't you. Sheesh man. You guys are great.

[KualaBangoDango]

You're arguing against a close friend of his. Do you honestly think you're in a better place to know SableShadow's train of thoughts than him?

In any case, it's very visible that Brenna left in great part because he was sick and tired of Turbine doing the complete opposite of what he suggested to do. Brenna's been vocal about the issues the rogue class faces - for years now. Yet, Turbine never addressed them or did the exact opposite. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2827881&postcount=51) Seeing them slowly "getting it" might have alleviated his frustration enough to keep him around.


thank you Borror.


What he said. So far, nobody that has posted in this thread knows his train of thoughts as well as I do. Of course, none of his guildies have posted yet, so that's the only reason that remains true.

Citing his exact frustrations would be against the Forums rules. I'd prefer it if people that don't know *anything* would avoid trying to argue with those that know more.I think you guys are misunderstanding the point of my posts, and for that I must apologize since I must not be stating my reasoning as clearly as I thought. My posts must have somehow been offensive too, judging by the -rep I got and for that I apologize. I was not intending to be offensive. Perhaps someone could PM me with the offending remarks so that I may delete them from my posts or re-phrase them to be more palatable.

I am not trying to debate his reasons for leaving the game and I am not saying I know exactly what he was thinking. What I am debating is why he (or anyone else for that matter) would DELETE their characters on their way out and all the evidence I've used has been your guys' own comments as well as previous experience. Perhaps Rage-quit was too strong a word since it DOES give a false impression on how he left, which was really quite mild from what I read and heard. I merely used "rage-quit" because that's what others were already using and because there is no other existing terminology for "anger-quit", "frustration-quit", "resentment-quit" or "discouraged-quit" which are the emotional reasons you, his friends, have given for his leaving.

Again, this is not, nor was it ever, an attack on him, nor is it me saying "I know what he thinks". My point was that, in my OPINION, the more and earlier communication that was asked for in the OP would probably not have worked in Sable's case, nor in the case of any other players who feel strongly enough to delete their characters on the way out.

I'll leave it at that.

[Eladiun]

it was not a rage quit. there is a multitude of reasons for his departure, as with others. if the love/fun for the game is completely gone, why prolong it?

I felt the same way a year or so ago... I took a break and came back. Deleting your characters takes away all your options if something changes. It should be an example to others thinking the same thing, you never know when something might change your mind so why take that drastic measure of deleting all your characters.

[Borror0]

What I am debating is why he (or anyone else for that matter) would DELETE their characters on their way out
I'm not sure why you would want to debate that. All that you would achieve by doing that is derailing a thread and/or irritating other posters.

[ArkoHighStar]

I thought so, too. I lol'd.

Here. I'll rep you for a more tangible display of my appreciation.

EDIT. You just negged me didn't you. Sheesh man. You guys are great.

nah wasn't me have a +1 to offset

[Lerincho]

I felt the same way a year or so ago... I took a break and came back. Deleting your characters takes away all your options if something changes. It should be an example to others thinking the same thing, you never know when something might change your mind so why take that drastic measure of deleting all your characters.

he has taken a few breaks from the game at various times. this time, her wanted to make sure he did have a reason to come back to play.

[GeneralDiomedes]

I really think it's better for Eladrin to simply float trial balloons like he did with fortification. 'Cause the WDA ain't coming back, and I ain't wasting precious bodily fluids over it.

[Dragonhyde]

While I would like to see the WDA make a come back, I wonder how likely it is seeing as alot of the old WDA's were thrown back at the Devs whenever something took longer to develop than was stated.

[Lleren]

it was not a rage quit. there is a multitude of reasons for his departure, as with others. if the love/fun for the game is completely gone, why prolong it?

If part of someones quitting includes /deleteing thier character or characters, then it will be percieved as a /ragequit.

[vettkinn]

Comrades, what is WDA / WMD?

[Lleren]

Comrades, what is WDA / WMD?

Weekly Developer announcement/message I presume, before my time.

[ArkoHighStar]

Comrades, what is WDA / WMD?

A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we used to get one of these weekly

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=115504

[Quanefel]

I believe Turbine thinks the WDA is too time-consuming for too little reward.

Or they do not want to bother with it. They have not been very open about what they are up to, at least not to us. They have no problem dropping hints outside the forums to other websites though.

Also, has anyone noticed our "updates" are rather sparse and the number per year they announced really no different than past years? Personally, I am not counting on them to add massive module packs like GH or the desert from here on out. If the current updates are any indicator of the future of DDO updates that is.

You'd think with this large influx of new players, the store pulling in a pile of money for them that we would see it reinvested more into the game.

[Ganak]

WDA meh!

[Eladiun]

he has taken a few breaks from the game at various times. this time, her wanted to make sure he did have a reason to come back to play.

I had a guildie do that before GH then came back and asked for all their stuff back and created new characters. We of course gave back all his stuff. But the delete is no final guarantee...

[Kromize]

Too bad this wasn't released before SableShadow deleted his only character and quit the game. A little more transparency by Turbine would go a long way toward veteran player retention and alleviating frustration.

At the very least I'd like to see a "development goals" type post from Turbine every update, it need not be weekly.

If only they listened to their player base...