Please, give it a rest

[btn2009]

First, I would like to appologise. I shamefully did not start playing till last June. I know, That means I am a noob, newb or f2p, or maybe any combination thereof.

I also have to admit to not spending 4 years + learning the game mechanics ... sorry.

And, sorry again, but I have only spent a few months learning low to mid level dungeons, so struggle in the Shroud, and other raids.

However, in almost every thread I have read (thats every thread i have read, not every thread on the forums) there are disparaging remarks regarding us noob/newb/f2p players. These range from tongue in cheek references about basic gameplay, to the fact that Turbine will not take any notice of you vets as long as they can milk us noob/newb/f2p players for every penny they can.

I simply want to state that these problems, in one form or another have been happening for 4 years +. Even a backwater european like me can work out the maths on that. You were having these problems up to three and a half years before the advent of the free game. The same recurring problems. So it is not our fault.

I came to the forums because I have a problem, and wanted to seek out some help, but you know? I would rather struggle on, spend the next 4 years trying to teach myself what you all have learned over the last 4 years, simply cos i am sick to death of being labelled cos I was not there at the beginning.

I know the majority of you help us without question. In many ways, ranging from basic equipment info, to which dungeon may drop what I need, to allowing me to join and helping me to explore, to answering questions on forums (I dont have to ask many, because the kind souls have covered everything I need so far .. thankyou, I know its been a long grind for some of you).

Just my own opinion, but it seems to me some of you p2p players need your own server. When I first heard this, I thought 'Elitist Tw*ts' well, I no longer think this. I agree, you need your own servers, so you can go play with yourselves again, and allow us lesser individuals who have not studied the game since its beginnings get the same enjoyment you did when learning it.

And finally 1 last appology, to those who have been here since the start and still play the game in the spirit of true D&D, to you all a very big thankyou on behalf of us who were in ignorance of the game until recently. Without you, the enjoyment I have had would have been lessened.

PS I think my problem is a DPS lag issue? Recently (since the move i think .. ish ... when I farm solo for Items, as soon as an AOE spell is cast all mobs move to a different time zone to me. i run around swinging for a bit, then i make a cup of tea, roll a smoke, and wait to see if i got lucky and hit something, or if they killed me while i was waiting for them to catch up. but dont worry about it, i will just look to see if its posible to turn the graphics down even lower than very low, with lots of stuff turned of.

Sorry I ranted, but like i say, I can hardly read a thread without the anti noob/newb/f2p thing cropping up somewhere



I just read Brenna has left :( those notes were the lynchpin of my (still limited) understanding of the rogue. A very sad day that makes my rant seem churlish by comparison

Well, at least till i got to the bit where its all cos of us noob/newb/f2p people, sigh.

Brenna is a legend. I never met him but read his life story. But, noob/newb/f2p (or a combination) that I am, I cant bring him back.

[Ashurr]

+1 mate.

[btn2009]

+1 mate.

thankyou ... i will study avidly :)

[Aristalla]

Well written. That took a lot of guts.
You stated how you felt without being an a**hat. +1

[Rice]

I agree, you need your own servers, so you can go play with yourselves again, and allow us lesser individuals who have not studied the game since its beginnings get the same enjoyment you did when learning it.

I strongly disagree with this statement. The best way for a new player to learn is to play with older players, not newer players. To ask for a server with only veterans in it IS snobbish because it simply means they think they are too good to teach newer players how to play. With the lack of documentation about the nooks and crannies of this game, it is the duty of the veterans to educate the new players. Yes, that means grouping with them and failing. People learn the best from their mistakes. But by educating (wiping with) the new players, you are creating a playerbase that will be able to fill up the groups for harder content, be knowledgeable about mechanics, etc. You do not have to feel shame or guilt for not "being there since the beginning." There is nowhere written that you must have played 3-4 years in order to be qualified as a good player.

I believe the developers are more at fault for this than the veterans since they are so reluctant to give out any detailed information regarding many parts of the game, as well as not keeping up with the numerous bugs that inhibit some gameplay. If the game was better documented and a bit more polished, then veterans do not have to tell the newbies over and over again some of the very basic knowledge about the game.

And of course, I realize that there are many, probably more often than not, good willed veterans out there that are more than happy to lend a hand to someone, and they deserve praise.

[irivan]

Just a reminder

http://my.ddo.com/irivan/2009/09/16/froobie-hate/

[SirShen]

+1 Rep

[Ranmaru2]

I gave ya a +1, as it's very well stated and sees both sides of the debate.

I really think it's more that a lot of people take the worst of each group as the examples of how each group acts towards one another, and that's the worst part about it. For example, I recently gave WoW another trial (have about 3 days left) and I absolutely understand why people would use General Chat for trading and/or group formations when you see it happening all the time there. I haven't figured out how to use the grouping tool, but after watching how they form groups and in another game like Rohan Online, I understand how its a transferred behavior.

And OP at times I think it almost is better to experience the brunt of the game and learn how you would on your own versus how a guide tells you. But as to your issue..that's either your computer being unable to handle the game on the current graphical settings (memory/processor overload) or was a really really bad day for the servers or even your own ISP/connection. Any more details you can supply would be helpful in identifying the problem.


I strongly disagree with this statement. The best way for a new player to learn is to play with older players, not newer players....With the lack of documentation about the nooks and crannies of this game, it is the duty of the veterans to educate the new players. Yes, that means grouping with them and failing. People learn the best from their mistakes.

And where does this duty originate from? I don't think it's the duty of the vets to teach the mechanics of the game as the vets are going to teach the road that works best for them, not every side of the road.

Healing is a good example. Some like to keep people topped off, and some, like myself, think with a much more solo mindset wherein healing isn't important until a person's life is <40% (or if I'm in a group I don't toss a heal until ~10-15% of your life remains). Me telling someone how to heal wouldn't exactly be good for a newer player to just experiment and find the type of healing that fits their playstyle the best. It's a suggestion, yes, but I'm not sure if it'd be a good one considering the nature of my cleric (in signature) versus others.

As per quests, if a bunch of people were to level up with me, they'd only be learning the quick ways to do quests whilst skipping many areas of the map that they would explore otherwise. I could try and explain how they're not worth the time, but I'm doing them a disservice in their previewing and experiencing all of the content they're running. I've been playing a while and still don't know all of the side nooks in Tear of Dhakaan as I just don't really care to go after all of 'em, nor ever really load up a party full of every need to get every rune for the pieces of the tear, so if a newer player were to come along with me, they wouldn't even experience 50% of the quest. Then again if I'm joining their lfm and they are willing to lead, I'll stay with them to let them experience the content, only needing to take charge if things are going badly. A more accurate statement should be that it's the duty of the vets to observe the newer players and offer suggestions where you think necessary versus teaching them the mechanics of the game, as they could ask you something you never even thought about in a quest, about a build, or equipment and even teach you a thing or two.


I believe the developers are more at fault for this than the veterans since they are so reluctant to give out any detailed information regarding many parts of the game, as well as not keeping up with the numerous bugs that inhibit some gameplay. If the game was better documented and a bit more polished, then veterans do not have to tell the newbies over and over again some of the very basic knowledge about the game.

This is definitely something I agree with and have stated numerous times around the forums and even during beta testing. The introductory system in this game is horrible and needs to be completely reworked. There are introductory areas in WoW, Lineage II, and Rohan, but they're not as horribly easy as Korthos, and I would be ashamed of Korthos if I was on the development team in light of other MMOs available.

[btn2009]

And where does this duty originate from? I don't think it's the duty of the vets to teach the mechanics of the game as the vets are going to teach the road that works best for them, not every side of the road.



i agree its not the 'duty' of the vets. they want their fun as much as anyone else. it just seems to me that if you have a problem with us, and you voice it publicly, then surely the way forward is not to run us down all the time, but to give the odd pointer now and then. even i sit in the mp or harbour answering those questions i can on advice channel, cos i remember the embarassment i felt when asking where house j is for example, cos the lady on korthos said to look her up when i got to stormreach :) and house j aint on the harbour map.
and as i said, without the help of some vets, my game enjoyment would have been lessened considerably, and i will never waste an oportunity to thank those of you who take the time to help.

so, thank you all for your comments .... constructive criticism is way better than blanket dissing

[Visty]

you seem to be confused about noobs and newbs

vets never bash the newbs, they only bash the noobs

big difference

[IgorUnchained]

Well said OP....just dont judge the game population on the small percentage of people who "like the game enough to spend an hour talking about it on the forums instead of spending that hour playing the game they like that much in the first place". These people (myself included) love to hear their own voice and they misplace priorities...by definition (otherwise they would be WORKING at work right now instead of reading game forums, or they would be in-game questing).

The actual game population is much much less informed than forum dwellers, but they are a lot more personable and tolerant. Still no shortage of jerks in-game, but there are no shortage of jerks anywhere.

As for your lag issues...I have the EXACT SAME THING. It makes me want to slug myself in the groin until I puke blood. I was told that it is increased by cleric hirelings and, upon testing it, I have seen that to be believable. Of course, that doesnt mean I can just solo content without a cleric hireling sometimes, but it has helped when I know I dont need one. Im just glad to hear someone describe the same exact problem I have. Whenever I tell anyone about it I get the reaction you would expect from a Basset Hound that was just shown a card trick.

[Ranmaru2]

you seem to be confused about noobs and newbs

vets never bash the newbs, they only bash the noobs

big difference

Is there really? I've always had a hard time distinguishing the difference between the two terms. They're all new and make mistakes and so have you within your first year of playing this game I bet. The problem is that a lot of the newer players view us older players like the bastards you'd find playing DotA, which definitely is not a category of folks I want to be placed within 100 miles of. They're trying to learn the mechanics of the game and instead of taking a step back and realizing the average learning time for this game is ~1 year, we start trashing them like the DotA vets (although with far less battle.net-esque banter).

Is it really necessary for us to start bashing them? No, not at all. I don't think its even right to distinguish them as a newb/noob. If you're going to distinguish them as anything, try to teach them first and if that doesn't work then distinguish them as the school brat who won't learn anything unless you can get laws passed to be able to beat a child again so you can show them its your classroom.

Even as vets we can make some pretty stupid noob/newb mistakes, and its impossible to deny that. We're just elite noobs who've been at the game longer.

[Visty]

Is there really? I've always had a hard time distinguishing the difference between the two terms. They're all new and make mistakes and so did you within the first year of playing this game I bet. The problem is that a lot of the newer players view us older players like the bastards you'd find playing DotA, which definitely is not a category of folks I want to be placed within 100 miles of. They're trying to learn the mechanics of the game and instead of taking a step back and realizing the average learning time for this game is ~1 year, we start trashing them like the DotA vets (although with far less battle.net-esque banter).

Is it really necessary for us to start bashing them? No, not at all. I don't think its even right to distinguish them as a newb/noob. If you're going to distinguish them as anything, try to teach them first and if that doesn't work then distinguish them as the school brat who won't learn anything unless you can get laws passed to be able to beat a child again so you can show them its your classroom.

Even as vets we can make some pretty stupid noob/newb mistakes, and its impossible to deny that. We're just elite noobs who've been at the game longer.

they both make mistakes, yes

the actual difference is:
newbs are willing to learn and listen to advice
noobs dont

[Oreg]

The number of "helpful" vets far outweigh the ones you describe.

In fact, many of the newb bashing comments on these forums come from newer players who want to "distance" themselves from being perceived as a new player.

Anyway, if anything we need less of these type of "woe is me the newb" threads so I do agree with your thread title.

[moomooprincess]

Very rare for me.

With one exception.

Do you log in and out of characters very often? I have found that when I log in on my first character the lag is a NON issue when soloing.

If I logout of that character and select another character from the account and then go run quests, I will lag.

If I do it again, the third time, the lag is very noticable. If I select all ten characters that I have on the account, I have a very good chance of SHUTTING the engine on my machine down. When I run through the market and make a right turn I usually run inot a wall before I make another turn, stuff like that.

If I go from one character to another, I only do it once. if I must do it again, I completely EXIT the game and restart.

Lag in shroud is a different beast. Too much stuff going on with too many characters, the engine cannot keep up. As some have said, shutting down what the engine needs to send to you lessens the lag.

[bobbryan2]

I just read Brenna has left :( those notes were the lynchpin of my (still limited) understanding of the rogue. A very sad day that makes my rant seem churlish by comparison

Well, at least till i got to the bit where its all cos of us noob/newb/f2p people, sigh.

Brenna is a legend. I never met him but read his life story. But, noob/newb/f2p (or a combination) that I am, I cant bring him back.

The martyr complex isn't doing you any favors. Not a single person said Brenna left because of FtP people. That's just reading what you want to read... (and honestly. not even sure where you garnered that gem from)

[Ranmaru2]

they both make mistakes, yes

the actual difference is:
newbs are willing to learn and listen to advice
noobs dont

Forgive me if I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the terms, especially looking at vet populations who won't change the way they run something now even if you might find a quicker route to run it thereby making vets into noobs. Honestly could you explain this much more differently than ewb and oob do it two different ways, as ewb can take on the properties of oob after a while and then the differentials of the terms seem skewed.

[Visty]

Forgive me if I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the terms, especially looking at vet populations who won't change the way they run something now even if you might find a quicker route to run it thereby making vets into noobs. Honestly could you explain this much more differently than ewb and oob do it two different ways, as ewb can take on the properties of oob after a while and then the differentials of the terms seem skewed.

some of those you call vet are actually just noobs which made their way to cap

if you meet a true vet, you will notice it

[Ranmaru2]

some of those you call vet are actually just noobs which made their way to cap

if you meet a true vet, you will notice it

Should I just take this as you can't really differentiate between the two? I run in a guild full of vets yet they still tend to make mistakes or run stuff in a fashion I question and will sometimes ask why they do it, but that's not newb/oob-ish, it's just a comfortable routine. Honestly I still don't understand the difference you're referring to as I've pugged with all manner of folk around the server.

I've played with people who've been here since there were MANY more servers than there are now and even the people still around from when Lhazaar existed make stupid mistakes. They may make them much less now than they did back then, but they still make them. No person has this game down to an exact science, even the people that have been here longer are just experienced noobs.

[Visty]

i wont write the full differences cause im writing this on my laptop and its just a sucky writing position

you are talking about ppl making mistakes
well, as i said earlier, doing mistakes is normal and noone cares about that

learning from your mistakes is what differencies you from the noobs

[Lord_Legolas]

Hail and well met! :) I agree and disagree on some points here and there. When I was new to the game back in Nov 2005(6?) it took me a while but a Vet took me in, got me into the guild and after that I started learning things through the forums, asking guildies and doing my own 'research.' Sure, I too see people bashing others and I try to avoid it myself. Anyway what I have seen lacking in the new player base is the willingness to go out and learn for themselves and to try to help one another.

Specific case, there was on person in general chat, asking for this - asking about that... A couple of other people said something to the effect that "if you teach a person to fish, they'll eat for a life time.. if you give them fish, they'll only eat for a day." I then spoke up and asked "you want everything spoon fed to you?" Not one, not two, but about 10 people said something to the effect: "He-double-tooth picks YES!" I knew before hand what the answer would be, but just wanted to see how many would even respond. There was NOT a single person who said no... Sad if you ask me!! I know and understand that 'they just want to play.' I was like that too... But for me, there came a time when I knew that "I couldn't make it" by just jumping on and playing all the time. So that's when I started doing my research.

"We" try to help everyone we can, but there are limits... Especially when the person(s) do not want to try to help themselves and only want 'everything spoon fed to them!'

[smilinJ]

sounds to me as tho you have recieved help/advice just about whenever you needed it but sometimes not.. in EVERY community there is a (hopefuly) small perentage of A$$holes that feel any time spent helping out someone else is wasted time. but in the 4 months pr so that i have been playing i find the vast majority of folks are more then willing to lend a hand .. f2p and p2p alike.
try focusing on the positive aspects of the game and you will see they far outweigh the negative

Quaichane Kane (20 monk of ghallanda)
Azterath (16 ranger/2 rogue of ghallanda)

[btn2009]

The martyr complex isn't doing you any favors. Not a single person said Brenna left because of FtP people. That's just reading what you want to read... (and honestly. not even sure where you garnered that gem from)

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=240914 post 5 and 12. i went on to read the whole thread, and i totally agree that these 2 posts are not representative of the thread, tho there are others bemoaning the fact that things are where they are cos of f2p

and, mate, a martyr i am not. a fed up being branded because i haven't played the game for 4 years i am. i hope there is a difference

[Oreg]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=240914 post 5 and 12. i went on to read the whole thread, and i totally agree that these 2 posts are not representative of the thread, tho there are others bemoaning the fact that things are where they are cos of f2p

and, mate, a martyr i am not. a fed up being branded because i haven't played the game for 4 years i am. i hope there is a difference

You and others like you can determine how you are perceived in your actions and words in game and on the forums. A year or two from now you won't be the new guy on the block and your perspective may ("will" imo) change.

[Visty]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=240914 post 5 and 12. i went on to read the whole thread, and i totally agree that these 2 posts are not representative of the thread, tho there are others bemoaning the fact that things are where they are cos of f2p

and, mate, a martyr i am not. a fed up being branded because i haven't played the game for 4 years i am. i hope there is a difference

well some things ARE because of f2p and denying that is denying the truth, or like denying that the world is round

[btn2009]

Hail and well met! :) I agree and disagree on some points here and there. When I was new to the game back in Nov 2005(6?) it took me a while but a Vet took me in, got me into the guild and after that I started learning things through the forums, asking guildies and doing my own 'research.' Sure, I too see people bashing others and I try to avoid it myself. Anyway what I have seen lacking in the new player base is the willingness to go out and learn for themselves and to try to help one another.

Specific case, there was on person in general chat, asking for this - asking about that... A couple of other people said something to the effect that "if you teach a person to fish, they'll eat for a life time.. if you give them fish, they'll only eat for a day." I then spoke up and asked "you want everything spoon fed to you?" Not one, not two, but about 10 people said something to the effect: "He-double-tooth picks YES!" I knew before hand what the answer would be, but just wanted to see how many would even respond. There was NOT a single person who said no... Sad if you ask me!! I know and understand that 'they just want to play.' I was like that too... But for me, there came a time when I knew that "I couldn't make it" by just jumping on and playing all the time. So that's when I started doing my research.

"We" try to help everyone we can, but there are limits... Especially when the person(s) do not want to try to help themselves and only want 'everything spoon fed to them!'

the help i have received from all players is most welcome. at the risk of repeating myself, help is greatfully accepted. i got on a downer BECAUSE i was trying to help myself, but all the threads i read had at least 1 anti newb/noob/f2p post. and i just got fed up with how the worlds problems seem to hinge on the advent of f2p
and i know its not everyone, or all threads


sounds to me as tho you have recieved help/advice just about whenever you needed it but sometimes not.. in EVERY community there is a (hopefuly) small perentage of A$$holes that feel any time spent helping out someone else is wasted time. but in the 4 months pr so that i have been playing i find the vast majority of folks are more then willing to lend a hand .. f2p and p2p alike.
try focusing on the positive aspects of the game and you will see they far outweigh the negative

Quaichane Kane (20 monk of ghallanda)
Azterath (16 ranger/2 rogue of ghallanda)
i agree totally its a minority, and more people help than dont, the levels of help are excellent. my moan is blaming everything on noobs/newbs/f2p
i do usually try for the positive, i guess last night i was just unlucky enough that each thread i read had some sort of comment re f2p/newb/noob

[btn2009]

You and others like you can determine how you are perceived in your actions and words in game and on the forums. A year or two from now you won't be the new guy on the block and your perspective may ("will" imo) change.

well, i hope i am still enjoying the game in 2 years (i hope so) but to a lot(?) of people we will always be new because we started playing with the advent of f2p

i'm intrigued ... others like me? you mean f2p/noob/newb?

[btn2009]

well some things ARE because of f2p and denying that is denying the truth, or like denying that the world is round

i agree with this partly. how the devs draw f2p in is nothing to do with the f2p comunity, but some of the 'poor' playing an bad in game etiquet is because of people who dont know the game well yet, and most of these (all?) are noob/newb/f2p

[Mithran]

While I don't agree that veterans should have their own server (I personally think that the growing pains will subside), I too have been increasingly concerned by the disparagement. Having said that, you should still ask questions for assistance on Forums. Those few veterans who are condescending are in the very small minority, and you shouldn't think that their attitude is as prevalent as its volume would indicate.

[vettkinn]

I sympathize with comrade btn2009 (+1), these old folks simply can't accept the fact that we're the ones who saved the game and they treat us like intruders.

@Bad Guys

Shame on you for making us F2P/Premium feel bad :mad:

[btn2009]

While I don't agree that veterans should have their own server (I personally think that the growing pains will subside), I too have been increasingly concerned by the disparagement. Having said that, you should still ask questions for assistance on Forums. Those few veterans who are condescending are in the very small minority, and you shouldn't think that their attitude is as prevalent as its volume would indicate.

thankyou for the encouragement :) i wonder if i'm a 'stewb' cos i try to learn, so not noob? but my STupid fingers dont do the things i want them to quick enough, and i am definitely nEW :)



I sympathize with comrade btn2009 (+1), these old folks simply can't accept the fact that we're the ones who saved the game and they treat us like intruders.

@Bad Guys

Shame on you for making us F2P/Premium feel bad :mad:

:) i fully appreciate that without the 'old timers' i wouldn't even have got to play the game

[Visty]

I sympathize with comrade btn2009 (+1), these old folks simply can't accept the fact that we're the ones who saved the game and they treat us like intruders.

@Bad Guys

Shame on you for making us F2P/Premium feel bad :mad:

f2p didnt save the game, it brought it in the downway spiral

€: yay, neg rep from another wannabee froob
€²: and nr2. speak up noob or go die

[Comegetsome]

f2p didnt save the game, it brought it in the downway spiral

well i dont know what your vision about the F2P but by the eyes of Turbine it was wonderful , in the first mouths gave a increase of 40% on the subs plus $$ from Store,famous MMO sites gave very high scores for DDOU even if you dont care about they its very important in terms of marketing a 8.0 from MMORPG.com or a 93 from TTH
so if you dont like the changes no one cares,if vets are leaving and for then 2 new subs for each are coming no one realy care its how the stuff works so accept or quit the $$ comes first,so if Casual or Epic or Curses with duration or the Store or whatever will bring more players or money, you , i or Mr.T cant do anything so thats it, capitalism is simple

[PopeJual]

I am not a noob. I listen to advice. I learn from players that are better than me. I do not repeat mistakes because I refuse to learn.

I am not a newb. I have enough good information in this noggin to help newbs who are just beginning to wander the byzantine labrynth of rules that DDO offers. I know the rules set better than many on the servers and I know why the standard character builds are better than most of the garbage that people tend to throw together without forethought.

I am not a vet. I do not have the reflexes built in yet to make snap decisions in the middle of a quest. I know the trap locations in some quests, but certainly not all of them. I continue to make stupid mistakes like forgetting to turn Extend off before I cast my long term buffs or forgetting to turn Extend on before casting buffs like Rage or Haste. The problem that I have is the same problem that new drivers face. No single part of driving is very difficult. Putting all of those dozens of parts together without screwing up any of the pieces is difficult.

So, if I'm not a noob or a newb or a vet, what am I?

I'm a scrub. :) I'll improve eventually, but for now I have to live with it.

[Clay]

As a vet actively trying to help people new to the game... I feel this thread to be more than a little self pitying and self serving.

I have met more rude people in game since F2P went live than I ever did when it was just us "old vets." The so called noob bashing is perhaps more a little over sensitivity on your part. I see daily, people going out of their way to help others. Yes, there are people going out of their way to mislead, abuse others. This is the way life works. Yes this is a game played in a fictional pigmented environment, but it is RL people behind those avatars.

There are countless threads and kind responses from vets to new people asking questions and yet you still feel the need to focus on the negatives. You also fail to mention the poor behavior on the part of people new to the game. People trying to sell "bloodstones", people having to log a different character to get the item... and disappearing. These are not being perpetrated by the vets.

And about F2P saving the game... who do you think it was that kept the game alive so that it was there to be "saved?"

I see very few new players ask for help. They often seem to think they know it all.

As for my credentials? I direct you here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=230838)and here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2637908&postcount=57).

[Sirea]

I sympathize with comrade btn2009 (+1), these old folks simply can't accept the fact that we're the ones who saved the game and they treat us like intruders.

@Bad Guys

Shame on you for making us F2P/Premium feel bad :mad:

Wow, seriously?

Sorry, I am not going to bow down and kiss the feet of f2p players and thank them for "saving my game".

Sometimes, I wish Turbine had just let the game die, if these are the kinds of people we are left with.

-1

[btn2009]

The number of "helpful" vets far outweigh the ones you describe.

AGREED

In fact, many of the newb bashing comments on these forums come from newer players who want to "distance" themselves from being perceived as a new player.

INTERESTING

Anyway, if anything we need less of these type of "woe is me the newb" threads so I do agree with your thread title.

BUT there ar'n't enough 'woe is me the vet' threads?




Very rare for me.

With one exception.

Do you log in and out of characters very often? I have found that when I log in on my first character the lag is a NON issue when soloing.

If I logout of that character and select another character from the account and then go run quests, I will lag.

If I do it again, the third time, the lag is very noticable. If I select all ten characters that I have on the account, I have a very good chance of SHUTTING the engine on my machine down. When I run through the market and make a right turn I usually run inot a wall before I make another turn, stuff like that.

If I go from one character to another, I only do it once. if I must do it again, I completely EXIT the game and restart.

Lag in shroud is a different beast. Too much stuff going on with too many characters, the engine cannot keep up. As some have said, shutting down what the engine needs to send to you lessens the lag.

THANks very much, very useful




As a vet actively trying to help people new to the game... I feel this thread to be more than a little self pitying and self serving.

I have met more rude people in game since F2P went live than I ever did when it was just us "old vets." The so called noob bashing is perhaps more a little over sensitivity on your part. I see daily, people going out of their way to help others. Yes, there are people going out of their way to mislead, abuse others. This is the way life works. Yes this is a game played in a fictional pigmented environment, but it is RL people behind those avatars.

There are countless threads and kind responses from vets to new people asking questions and yet you still feel the need to focus on the negatives. You also fail to mention the poor behavior on the part of people new to the game. People trying to sell "bloodstones", people having to log a different character to get the item... and disappearing. These are not being perpetrated by the vets.

And about F2P saving the game... who do you think it was that kept the game alive so that it was there to be "saved?"

I see very few new players ask for help. They often seem to think they know it all.

As for my credentials? I direct you here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=230838)and here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2637908&postcount=57).


no references needed. like i said, the help i get ingame is immense and very much appreciated. as is the help i find on the forums.

so i am a self pittying, self serving martyr'd noob/newb/f2p. or a combination thereof. my head hurts now. i'm not moaning about the game, or the people or even the forums. just the fact that almost every thread i read last night contained some dissing reference to noob/newb/f2p people, as if we are responsible for the games woes. and we are not. i dont choose the servers they buy, the content they add, the players they 'force' to leave, the business model.... in fact, all i did was choose the game to play. oh, and post on the forums that in my opinion blaming f2p/noob/newb for everything is depressing

pity? for what?
self serving? am i the only one then?
martyr? really? 1st page of a thread about respected players leaving has 2 (admittedly slight) references to noob/newb/f2p and you dont think that detracts from the real issues? surely the martyr's are the ones who left. at least as i understand the word

well dont it just get better and better. i guess i aint really cut out for forums :) once again, thanks for all the comments and help that you have all given, its confused me enough to drive me back to the game with hope i can sort my lag/graphics issues, but left me wishing i hadnt bothered looking in the fist place

[btn2009]

And about F2P saving the game... who do you think it was that kept the game alive so that it was there to be "saved?"


As for my credentials? I direct you here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=230838)and here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2637908&postcount=57).

erm, i never said this. on the contrary, i actually said without the vets i wouldnt have a game to play. i dont know if f2p saved or will ruin the game, i only know that i started playing cos it was free, and i liked it so much that although i couldn't buy it (luckily i would guess reading some comments:)) i subbed b4 f2p started

[Newtons_Apple]

I strongly disagree with this statement. The best way for a new player to learn is to play with older players, not newer players. To ask for a server with only veterans in it IS snobbish because it simply means they think they are too good to teach newer players how to play. With the lack of documentation about the nooks and crannies of this game, it is the duty of the veterans to educate the new players. Yes, that means grouping with them and failing. People learn the best from their mistakes. But by educating (wiping with) the new players, you are creating a playerbase that will be able to fill up the groups for harder content, be knowledgeable about mechanics, etc. You do not have to feel shame or guilt for not "being there since the beginning." There is nowhere written that you must have played 3-4 years in order to be qualified as a good player.

I believe the developers are more at fault for this than the veterans since they are so reluctant to give out any detailed information regarding many parts of the game, as well as not keeping up with the numerous bugs that inhibit some gameplay. If the game was better documented and a bit more polished, then veterans do not have to tell the newbies over and over again some of the very basic knowledge about the game.

And of course, I realize that there are many, probably more often than not, good willed veterans out there that are more than happy to lend a hand to someone, and they deserve praise.

-1

Lol my duty? I play this game to play- which means to have fun. You start talking about duty and it sounds a lot like a job to me.

You don't pay my sub, I do. I choose to enjoy this game by running with people who can get it done, and done fast.

You're actually hurting yourself by insisting on being lead around by the nose. If all you know is one path through each quest, what happens when the **** hits the fan and everything goes sideways? Try learning the quests on your own - you'll get to know them very well and you won't have to worry about your characters life being derailed by a single event you weren't expecting along your linear path...

[vettkinn]

Wow, seriously?

Sorry, I am not going to bow down and kiss the feet of f2p players and thank them for "saving my game".

Sometimes, I wish Turbine had just let the game die, if these are the kinds of people we are left with.

-1



f2p didnt save the game, it brought it in the downway spiral

Such blasphemy!

These old comrades deny the fact that us F2P/Premium saved their precious game.

Actually, it is OUR game now, and there's little these people can do but co-exist with us (or make dramatic "I'm leaving" threads).

[PopeJual]

Actually, it is OUR game now, and there's little these people can do but co-exist with us (or make dramatic "I'm leaving" threads).

Vettkinn, what you say is true. The game does belong to everyone who plays it and the only choices now are to group with new players or to solo low level content (fortunately, low level content is easy to solo). That doesn't meen you have to be an ass about the way you present that idea and it certainly doesn't mean that anyone has to kiss your behind for "saving" the game.

New players that PAY saved the game. New players that stick to free content are certainly not saving the game. I'm a new player. I paid money into the game. I deserve some credit for keeping the game alive. I certainly do not deserve any special kudos and brownie points for my heroic actions.

Yes, most new players are morons. Most humans are morons, so that only makes sense. As players learn the game, most of them get better. For the ones that don't get better, the squelch function works quite well.

[vettkinn]

New players that PAY saved the game. New players that stick to free content are certainly not saving the game.

Please comrades, like what the OP said, don't bash the pure F2P crowd. They are as good as Premium and VIP, they are all potential customers and they fill your LFM and mine.

Please, give it a rest and stop treating the pure F2P crowd as second-class people, they have feelings too you know.

[Magusrex777]

f2p didnt save the game, it brought it in the downway spiral

Depends on your point of view. I have been playing since September, it has done nothing but get better IMO and I believe the future will only get better. You sound bitter. Turbine saved the game no one else. All players do is pay for content. Turbine is responsible for the creation, modification or removal of content that makes a player pay or not pay.


Such blasphemy!

These old comrades deny the fact that us F2P/Premium saved their precious game.

Actually, it is OUR game now, and there's little these people can do but co-exist with us (or make dramatic "I'm leaving" threads).

Too harsh


Vettkinn, what you say is true. The game does belong to everyone who plays it and the only choices now are to group with new players or to solo low level content (fortunately, low level content is easy to solo). That doesn't meen you have to be an ass about the way you present that idea and it certainly doesn't mean that anyone has to kiss your behind for "saving" the game.

New players that PAY saved the game. New players that stick to free content are certainly not saving the game. I'm a new player. I paid money into the game. I deserve some credit for keeping the game alive. I certainly do not deserve any special kudos and brownie points for my heroic actions.

Yes, most new players are morons. Most humans are morons, so that only makes sense. As players learn the game, most of them get better. For the ones that don't get better, the squelch function works quite well.

Most new players are not morons, it says a great deal about you that you would choose to say and phrase it like that, classy.

[Clay]

erm, i never said this. on the contrary, i actually said without the vets i wouldnt have a game to play. i dont know if f2p saved or will ruin the game, i only know that i started playing cos it was free, and i liked it so much that although i couldn't buy it (luckily i would guess reading some comments:)) i subbed b4 f2p started

I guess I read the thread too fast... It just feels to me that the vets who cared enough about the game to carry it for a limbo-ed year are getting drowned out by new players not willing to adapt and learn and keep crying for the easy buttons rather than ask or listen to advice.

If you are not that person, I apologize for not reading your op more carefully. I still feel tho, that many F2P players are expecting a free and easy ride and are unwilling to learn, listen or adapt. Then when they come to the boards and make poorly thought out posts that get shot down then get all huffy and pout: oh you vets are just so mean to us F2Pers.

[Gremmlynn]

-1

Lol my duty? I play this game to play- which means to have fun. You start talking about duty and it sounds a lot like a job to me.

You don't pay my sub, I do. I choose to enjoy this game by running with people who can get it done, and done fast.

You're actually hurting yourself by insisting on being lead around by the nose. If all you know is one path through each quest, what happens when the **** hits the fan and everything goes sideways? Try learning the quests on your own - you'll get to know them very well and you won't have to worry about your characters life being derailed by a single event you weren't expecting along your linear path...Good post.

Learning from someone else is the easy way. But, like in most things, the best way to learn is the hard way.

As for myself, a quest I being told how to beat is a quest I might as well not even be running. It's figuring out the problems and finding the path that, for me at least, separates a quest from the much more convenient explorer zones that I can hit up if all I want to do is kill some monsters.

To the OP: For your lag problem try turning off the overhead numbers, at least for your character if you use the mob numbers to figure out their resistances and weaknesses. This helped a lot for my lag and they really don't serve much purpose that I have found.

[HumanJHawkins]

First, I would like to appologise.<cut>

God, what a noob! :eek:

(just kidding)

[Yagi]

The "ft2 saved the game" "nuh uh vets did by keeping it going" thing is dumb. Here is who really "saved the game": Either an accountant, or an upper-management type who was thinking of their resume, or a board that did not particularly want to lose consumer confidence or a combination of the three.

(assuming that it ever got bad enough for such discussions to even come up, I dont know, i wasnt here for that and i doubt they would have told me about it either way)

[Gremmlynn]

The "ft2 saved the game" "nuh uh vets did by keeping it going" thing is dumb. Here is who really "saved the game": Either an accountant, or an upper-management type who was thinking of their resume, or a board that did not particularly want to lose consumer confidence or a combination of the three.

(assuming that it ever got bad enough for such discussions to even come up, I dont know, i wasnt here for that and i doubt they would have told me about it either way)Pretty much. I really wonder if those who think they "kept the game going" while the relaunch was being developed actually think the budget for the relaunch was dependent on the game making money until it was finished. Not that Turbine didn't appreciate the money, but the budget for the relaunch was already approved before they ever started on the project if Turbine runs like most sane companies. As for f2p players saving the game, um no the f2p marketing scheme did that. All the players did was find it attractive enough to spend some money on it.

[PopeJual]

Please comrades, like what the OP said, don't bash the pure F2P crowd. They are as good as Premium and VIP, they are all potential customers and they fill your LFM and mine.

Please, give it a rest and stop treating the pure F2P crowd as second-class people, they have feelings too you know.

I don't believe that I bashed the pure F2P crowd at all. I said nothing negative about the F2P crowd in any way, shape, or form. I just said that the F2P folks are not contributing to DDO's bottom line. They ARE contributing to our play experience (some are making our play experience worse, but most are making it better) and I do appreciate that. I just don't think that anyone should be standing up and waving a flag in their honor. They get to play the game for free. I got to play the game for free while I decided if I liked the game enough to throw cash at it.

Really, if there was any saving done, TURBINE deserves credit for saving the game with the F2P model because the F2P players are not funding the game. Instead, F2P is a "gateway drug" to the "hard stuff" of Premium/VIP status.

The purpose of my post was actually just to point out that you were being obnoxious in your "defense" of the new players. I have no problem with most of your posts (even where you call people comrade), but I'm a new player and I don't need you to defend me. I certainly don't need you to defend me in that way.

[Visty]

well i dont know what your vision about the F2P but by the eyes of Turbine it was wonderful , in the first mouths gave a increase of 40% on the subs plus $$ from Store,famous MMO sites gave very high scores for DDOU even if you dont care about they its very important in terms of marketing a 8.0 from MMORPG.com or a 93 from TTH
so if you dont like the changes no one cares,if vets are leaving and for then 2 new subs for each are coming no one realy care its how the stuff works so accept or quit the $$ comes first,so if Casual or Epic or Curses with duration or the Store or whatever will bring more players or money, you , i or Mr.T cant do anything so thats it, capitalism is simple

turbine made a decision 2 years ago to drasticly slow down content to work on the f2p model. that time did cost them at least 60% of their subscribers if not more
f2p didnt save the game, it fixed that move



Depends on your point of view. I have been playing since September, it has done nothing but get better IMO and I believe the future will only get better. You sound bitter. Turbine saved the game no one else. All players do is pay for content. Turbine is responsible for the creation, modification or removal of content that makes a player pay or not pay.

jep, you play since september, you werent here befor, so you dont know how it was

[smatt]

turbine made a decision 2 years ago to drasticly slow down content to work on the f2p model. that time did cost them at least 60% of their subscribers if not more
f2p didnt save the game, it fixed that move



:rolleyes: I was here.... And yes they did slow it down from a crawl to nothing.... At that point the game was DEAD already.... It was dead somewhere around Mod 5, the amount of money coming in couldn't support ongoing consistant development period.

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

OP- +1 for you, my friend. I am still new myself, have had good mentors, found a good guild, and I even upgraded to P2P. When I get into a quest/raid I have never done, I admit it, look for guidance, and even ask politely what kind of mobs to expect, and the best way to equip.....

Every once in awhile, I get some tool yelling at me to put on my heavy fort (wearing it) get blur (got 10% chance to miss item, baby- never leave home without it) or better yet to sit at the quest entrance whilst they clear it for me (pound sand). There will always be ubergamers, in an elite class of their own, but for some reason they LIVE TO EXIST in the PuGs.....because noone else wants to put up with their ****.

Kudos to you. Keep playing, and asking questions. Be the next generation of people who just love playing the game, and help those who are where you were.

[Visty]

:rolleyes: I was here.... And yes they did slow it down from a crawl to nothing.... At that point the game was DEAD already.... It was dead somewhere around Mod 5, the amount of money coming in couldn't support ongoing consistant development period.

and why was it dead? because there was no advertising

change name from stormreach to eberron unlimited (or whatever) like they did, get rid of atari, make advertising campaigns

no need for any f2p and would have worked the same

and smatt, if you negrep me atleast say so and dont hide behind the forums

€: and another neg rep from someone admitting the world is flat. if you cant face the truth, you shouldnt visit the internet

[blackdrowarcanenuts]

Very rare for me.

With one exception.

Do you log in and out of characters very often? I have found that when I log in on my first character the lag is a NON issue when soloing.

If I logout of that character and select another character from the account and then go run quests, I will lag.

If I do it again, the third time, the lag is very noticable. If I select all ten characters that I have on the account, I have a very good chance of SHUTTING the engine on my machine down. When I run through the market and make a right turn I usually run inot a wall before I make another turn, stuff like that.

If I go from one character to another, I only do it once. if I must do it again, I completely EXIT the game and restart.

Lag in shroud is a different beast. Too much stuff going on with too many characters, the engine cannot keep up. As some have said, shutting down what the engine needs to send to you lessens the lag.


Your situation "When I run through the market and make a right turn I usually run in to a wall before I make another turn, stuff like that."

I always face this type of situation how to over come until and unless i completely shut down my machine and then start again then it goes good after few hours it happens again

[Hihiirokane]

I still feel tho, that many F2P players are expecting a free and easy ride and are unwilling to learn, listen or adapt.

This is true for every single MMO out there. DDO is no exception. F2P has little to do with it. This thread reminds me of back in the day where I had level 1-20's asking me for 'GOLD PLS' in whispers on WoW. (And then actually getting mad at you for saying; 'go Quest and get it yourself m8'!)

And mind you, those level 1-20's were usually paying for subscriptions.

[smatt]

and why was it dead? because there was no advertising

change name from stormreach to eberron unlimited (or whatever) like they did, get rid of atari, make advertising campaigns

no need for any f2p and would have worked the same

Umm, I think there's far more to it than just lack of advertising..... It was part of the problem.. But not the WHOLE problem....


and smatt, if you negrep me atleast say so and dont hide behind the forums

I'm not all that sure I've ever neg repped you to be honest, probably done 6 or 7 negs the whole time. I simply don't toss rep out, I usually don't give a **** about it enough to care to be honest... I'm far more likely to pos rep a psot becsue it made me laugh as oppossed to anykidn of a neg rep.

And I don't hide **** from anybody... If you're implying I did it in this thread... Well you're delusional.... :cool:

[Visty]

I'm not all that sure I've ever neg repped you to be honest, probably done 6 or 7 negs the whole time. I simply don't toss rep out, I usually don't give a **** about it enough to care to be honest... I'm far more likely to pos rep a psot becsue it made me laugh as oppossed to anykidn of a neg rep.

And I don't hide **** from anybody... If you're implying I did it in this thread... Well you're delusional.... :cool:

well, someone did and u just thought it was you as you can from thsoe posting here and disagreeing with me

if it wasnt you, sorry :)

[smatt]

well, someone did and u just thought it was you as you can from thsoe posting here and disagreeing with me

if it wasnt you, sorry :)

I'm not vindictive enough to neg rep someone I disagree with...

Heck, I actually pos rep Gunga :eek: :D

Disagreement or minor douch-baggery doesn't warrant neg rep... :D

[Tumarek]

It's like always when emotions are boiling high... people start aggressively promoting their opinion. Now as stated before: its a game chill, no one really cares what you or i think... it fun time.

Posted my opinion in the wrong thread... and i was told welcome to DDO (after half a year of gaming), telling me i dont know what grinding is (having played the biggest grindfest mmorpg for 3 years) and that i dont understand why DDO is special because it is based on D&D (after more then 20 years of playing PnP D&D and many others). --- And then i got neg rep ontop of that.

It really doesnt matter if you have a greenbar as wide as truck or a joindate from the 18th century. Every well presented opinion should at least not be looked down at. Of course you can disagree but "you dont know what you are doing before you have capped 5 char" or something like that is just an insult to my intelligence. This isnt rocketsience...

If you really love this game dont behave like a ****, and we all will have a better time... after all we are here to enjoy ourselves, *****ing is for RL :)

[steeldocparker]

First, I would like to appologise. I shamefully did not start playing till last June. I know, That means I am a noob, newb or f2p, or maybe any combination thereof.

I also have to admit to not spending 4 years + learning the game mechanics ... sorry.

And, sorry again, but I have only spent a few months learning low to mid level dungeons, so struggle in the Shroud, and other raids.

However, in almost every thread I have read (thats every thread i have read, not every thread on the forums) there are disparaging remarks regarding us noob/newb/f2p players. These range from tongue in cheek references about basic gameplay, to the fact that Turbine will not take any notice of you vets as long as they can milk us noob/newb/f2p players for every penny they can.

I simply want to state that these problems, in one form or another have been happening for 4 years +. Even a backwater european like me can work out the maths on that. You were having these problems up to three and a half years before the advent of the free game. The same recurring problems. So it is not our fault.

I came to the forums because I have a problem, and wanted to seek out some help, but you know? I would rather struggle on, spend the next 4 years trying to teach myself what you all have learned over the last 4 years, simply cos i am sick to death of being labelled cos I was not there at the beginning.

I know the majority of you help us without question. In many ways, ranging from basic equipment info, to which dungeon may drop what I need, to allowing me to join and helping me to explore, to answering questions on forums (I dont have to ask many, because the kind souls have covered everything I need so far .. thankyou, I know its been a long grind for some of you).

Just my own opinion, but it seems to me some of you p2p players need your own server. When I first heard this, I thought 'Elitist Tw*ts' well, I no longer think this. I agree, you need your own servers, so you can go play with yourselves again, and allow us lesser individuals who have not studied the game since its beginnings get the same enjoyment you did when learning it.

And finally 1 last appology, to those who have been here since the start and still play the game in the spirit of true D&D, to you all a very big thankyou on behalf of us who were in ignorance of the game until recently. Without you, the enjoyment I have had would have been lessened.

PS I think my problem is a DPS lag issue? Recently (since the move i think .. ish ... when I farm solo for Items, as soon as an AOE spell is cast all mobs move to a different time zone to me. i run around swinging for a bit, then i make a cup of tea, roll a smoke, and wait to see if i got lucky and hit something, or if they killed me while i was waiting for them to catch up. but dont worry about it, i will just look to see if its posible to turn the graphics down even lower than very low, with lots of stuff turned of.

Sorry I ranted, but like i say, I can hardly read a thread without the anti noob/newb/f2p thing cropping up somewhere



I just read Brenna has left :( those notes were the lynchpin of my (still limited) understanding of the rogue. A very sad day that makes my rant seem churlish by comparison

Well, at least till i got to the bit where its all cos of us noob/newb/f2p people, sigh.

Brenna is a legend. I never met him but read his life story. But, noob/newb/f2p (or a combination) that I am, I cant bring him back.

hi !this is NOT a "knock" on anyone - welcome to mmos - business and the internet :) bonds and friendships made here :) im a noob - 38 yr old noob - been gaming longer than some less then others - though not many :) anytime someone starts a game they r a noob - no reflection upon personal real life status - just new to the game is all :) ppl come and go in ALL online games - that's just life - some go quietly some go kicking and screaming and some bow out with dignity - its just a game :) some played pen n paper like me - i was curious about ddo online - so im here trying it out - no I won't pay for something before i try it out , yes i am vip now 2 months later ;) -ie. someone who drops 100k before driving a new car , especially if while driving off the lot the motor blows up :) some r just dedicated .DnD underwear , shirt , pants , hat , etc.. 'ive played enough mmo's to know there r big spenders then there r those who spend very little - so it is in rl -real life. someone who's spent over 1000$ or what ever - will be none to happy when they start changing things around in "their game they bought"-it's not what they payed for - change is a constant in our universe - the waves will come and wash away the old while bringing new life .The British Empire, the French empire , Roman Empire , etc.. Im sure some of the "Legends" in ddo will come n go , some r in the making now :) same as all the other games played - their experiences r unsurpassed and invaluable . after all who wants to be a guinea pig for a new game while the bugs r being worked out -only to appear at the next "new" update :) dev's sometimes get it right so far ok - mostly they just annoy some ppl < focus on money - in today's world of greed and hunger expect no less from a business - we r all just numbers to them - for the success of a game to continue it must flow with the times or it will fade away like all the others - huh - what to do when the electricity goes out?

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

hi !this is NOT a "knock" on anyone - welcome to mmos - business and the internet :) bonds and friendships made here :) im a noob - 38 yr old noob - been gaming longer than some less then others - though not many :) anytime someone starts a game they r a noob - no reflection upon personal real life status - just new to the game is all :) ppl come and go in ALL online games - that's just life - some go quietly some go kicking and screaming and some bow out with dignity - its just a game :) some played pen n paper like me - i was curious about ddo online - so im here trying it out - no I won't pay for something before i try it out , yes i am vip now 2 months later ;) -ie. someone who drops 100k before driving a new car , especially if while driving off the lot the motor blows up :) some r just dedicated .DnD underwear , shirt , pants , hat , etc.. 'ive played enough mmo's to know there r big spenders then there r those who spend very little - so it is in rl -real life. someone who's spent over 1000$ or what ever - will be none to happy when they start changing things around in "their game they bought"-it's not what they payed for - change is a constant in our universe - the waves will come and wash away the old while bringing new life .The British Empire, the French empire , Roman Empire , etc.. Im sure some of the "Legends" in ddo will come n go , some r in the making now :) same as all the other games played - their experiences r unsurpassed and invaluable . after all who wants to be a guinea pig for a new game while the bugs r being worked out -only to appear at the next "new" update :) dev's sometimes get it right so far ok - mostly they just annoy some ppl < focus on money - in today's world of greed and hunger expect no less from a business - we r all just numbers to them - for the success of a game to continue it must flow with the times or it will fade away like all the others - huh - what to do when the electricity goes out?

Amen brother. :) We must have run the same campaigns (35 year old noob here :))

[Horrorscope]

change name from stormreach to eberron unlimited (or whatever) like they did, get rid of atari, make advertising campaigns

no need for any f2p and would have worked the same

Ah no.

And the part you had about neg rep... I can't wait to get enough rep to neg rep someone someday. Many well deserved in how they've abused it. Crappiest rep system I've seen so far.

[Lerincho]

and why was it dead? because there was no advertising

change name from stormreach to eberron unlimited (or whatever) like they did, get rid of atari, make advertising campaigns

no need for any f2p and would have worked the same

and smatt, if you negrep me atleast say so and dont hide behind the forums

You could try to me more wrong, but you couldn't with your state ment of no advertising was the death of the game. Lack of advertizing was not the cause of dying; the lack of communication to it's current players, the lack of content upgrades and updates is what put DDO on life support.

Whether YOU like it or not Visty, F2P has kept the game alive; however, because vets pay fixed amounts (subscription fees) we are no longer the concern of Turbine. Turbine cares about one thing, and that is FREE moving money. The people who spend ungodly and unwise amounts of real money into this game are the only people that Turbine cares about; hence those that spend freely.

On a side note Visty; your hate that you are bringing into this thread is unwarranted. What the OP stated was a fair opinion; however, it does not justify you coming in to bash all free/noob/newb people.

[Khestral]

It's like this...

If you play the game and learn, ask questions and go out and try things on your own... Whether you've played the game since beta or since yesterday - you have promise. If you are at the beginning of this spectrum, you're New to the game ergo a NEWB. There's nothing derrogatory about it, you are a newbie, a probie, rookie, freshmeat...

A NOOB is a loud obnoxious mouthbreather that can't or won't listen to anyone because they know it already. They have never seen the inside of that particular quest, but they already know that their uber l33tness has already defeated it - what's that, fire heals that construct? LIES! I'll continue to use my +1 Flaming Sword of Pure Good because it is the best weapon in game! They are the ones that yell into the mic the whole quest long about their awesome build and their 42 hit points at lvl 8 on their fighter. They are the ones that blame the cleric when they die 5 rooms ahead of everyone else. There's no time limit on NOOBs, in fact, some would say once a NOOB always a NOOB.

F2Per can be either of these things. They weren't the savior, they aren't the devil. They did bring in new life, but at the same time, the F2P structure has, to the minds of some/most of the "vet" crowd has pulled away resources from developing the game further. Instead Turbine is focusing on going back and changing old content to give the parts of the world that are seen by the "future market" a solid and fresh look. This means that content that isn't first seen gets neglected and does cause some grumblings. It means that the people that have been here through the hard times and the lean content times don't see the love. Think of it like becoming an older sibling - sure, you're excited about it, but at the same time you feel like mommy might not love you best because she's spending so much time with the new baby.

Now, to address what you call vets. Just because someone has the Veteran status on their forum title, doesn't mean that they are not NOOBs, that they know it all, or that they are the benchmark to meet and exceed. It means they've put in their time and do deserve to have their opinions on things and to be proven correct or wrong about those opinions. To “Vets” that title means something else. It means they are the players that do know what they’re doing, that they have proven ourselves as trailblazers. They figured out the Titan without a walkthrough, thye discovered what running the bases meant first hand. If you want all the Vets off on their own server, it wouldn’t hurt them any, but it would make the new players suffer greatly.

Now, all that said. I welcome new players, I'll take time to help them learn WW, Deleras, Stormcleave, STK or Tangleroot. But I won't listen to a nOOb run on and on about how they are a lvl 80 in WoW and they can solo this sh!t at lvl 1 with their fists. I'll let 'em, and sell popcorn to the rest of the group while they try.

[Magusrex777]

turbine made a decision 2 years ago to drasticly slow down content to work on the f2p model. that time did cost them at least 60% of their subscribers if not more
f2p didnt save the game, it fixed that move




jep, you play since September, you weren't here before, so you don't know how it was I was not actually playing the game but I was very aware of its existence. I have played MMOs since they started and my fascination for this genre has everything to do with a lifelong affair with D&D since childhood. The launch was perceived as terrible from my view from the outside from what I read in mags, gamesites and game forums. I knew some people I trusted who tried it. They said the game was extremely laggy and was filled with bugs and some people got through all the content in a month. My research led me to believe what they said was true. Even though I consider myself a loyal supporter of Turbine for many years and a huge fan of D&D I was not going to spend time or money until I heard better things.

I continued to follow the game, server merges, lack of content. I was not hearing anything positive so I stopped following. The only thing that got me to try the game was the change to EU. I did hear good things about that. Without this change there was no I was even checking DDO out anymore, it had left mine and nearly everyone who plays MMOs radar. They needed to do something radical. Sure if the game was better from the get go this change may not have been necessary. Since we cannot change the past Turbine had to do something. Their gutsy move has been a huge success.

I love the game the way it is right now. The guild I have joined has been in existence since day 1 and they are not complaining. They are positive about today and having fun. I did do research, there was no way in hell I was joining a bitter group of people who do nothing but complain about things. I would rather PUG everything. I did PUG for 6 months and it was pretty **** good. Easy to find groups, people were friendly, I hardly ever experienced any of the garbage people whine about on the forums. Yes I had a few bad times, insignificant in the face of all the good times.

So from mine and what I guess to be many other new player experiences we have a hard time with your PoV. We are having fun. We can get groups, we like the people we meet in game. The only bad times we have are when we are grouped with an intolerant bitter dude trying to prove a point. We come to the forums and read about all these people complaining about us, how awful we have made the game and how great it used to be or how Turbine changed the game because of us. We are like whaaaat? So in the face our good time and enjoyment it is hard for us to accept what you say. Too many of you come across as bitter and negative. Most of us just would rather focus on having fun and when we no longer are having fun we will just choose to do something else instead of getting bitter.

[Josh]

...it is the duty of the veterans to educate the new players...

Sorry, this is 100% incorrect.

[Magusrex777]

Sorry, this is 100% incorrect. I agree it is not their duty. It is what I consider to be the smart thing to do becasue it will increase my satifaction. I try to pass on what I know to be true from my experience because I enjoy how it feels to be helpful. I enjoy getting heartfelt thanks and would not let a few people who could be jerks when you try to help stop me from doing something I enjoy. That is just me, I do not think anyone should feel obliged to help or worse other people say they must help or it is their duty. They pay to play(nearly everyone) and nothing says they have to help you.

[Thar]

Spyderwolf's walkthrough of quests for new players

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=189531&highlight=spyder+video

[Tinrae]

+1 OP.

I too started late last year as a freemium, sporadic player. I'm an old MMO player and multi-gamer, but I'd never given this title a shot previously as the reviews for the game were pretty bad. I finally gave it a try when it went f2p and I enjoyed it, but still didn't invest much time here for a variety of reasons.

That said, I met two of the coolest, kindest players this past weekend. A husband & wife team who've played forever and have a plethora of characters and knowledge. The wife randomly buffed me with Haste as I was running the egg collection race in the Marketplace, so I sent her a PM to tell her thanks. This simple act spiraled into two consecutive nights spent so far hanging out with some lower level alts of theirs. They've already taught us quite a few things, and we've gotten a whole lot more interested in this game now because of it - started adjusting our character builds and reading up on mechanics that we hadn't considered before.

I foresee my hubby and I spending a lot more time here going forward. :D

Some people can choose to be exclusive. I'm fine with that. But I'm grateful for the ones who also take pleasure in meeting new people and enjoying the old content again through our fresh newbie eyes. They truly make the game for us.

[Tapsimanxer]

I too am a newb at 4 months into the game. And as an f2p, I grind for favor. Grinding is not fun, whatever the quest. So I finally finished Misery's Peak on hard and our group of 3 had to finally break up. While we were saying our TYs and cyas, one said "that was fun!". Now that surprised me, because I didnt have same remark. It reminded me of how I was on my first week, everything was fun when you had a good group and you finished the quest. Ive already turned into a grinding no-fun character. It made me envy him. I dont want to turn into a hateful vet, I want to stay a NEWB!

[Kalari]

Op I think your post was well though out and heart felt.

My only issue with the whole vet vs new thing is everytime a legitimate gripe is put forward now that argument is thrown in the mix and it degrades what could be a very constructive thread into arguing.

The last thread I was in had nothing to do with new players I cant say any more about it since I dont want this thread deleted but like others it became something else which once again became an us vs them.

Anyone who has ever read any of my long winded rants knows I fully believe in supporting this game. If youve hear my interviews about this game you know I love dungeons and dragons and this is the only mmo that has come close enough.

I show my support by continuing to enjoy the game and speaking up for things the game needs. But its hard to do that when constructive posts about high level content, time sinks are turned into "oh you hate new players.."

***? who the heck huh? thats my reaction many times after starting a post on one issue and having to constantly defend myself.

Well no more believe it or not not all of us who have been around for a few years hate new players. We hate the new mechanics with the launch of Ebberon unlimited. And no I do not blame players even the ones who cant get threw quests like Tear of Dkhaan and whined about it.

But it seems like we went from being able to say "Hey devs what happened to communication, or hey we need this fix or this class needs love" to being told "this is how mmos are suck it up." Well some of us dont want to deal with it we want better and thats what many vets complain about. Im just sick of new players thinking our complaints to make the game better are about bashing them. Yes there has been bashing im not blind or ignorant enough to say there has not. But we need to get off that and become a community again. Its the only way this game will not lose the niche feel many of us stuck around for years and love and I think even new to the game players can be apart of this community and help us make this game better then the others out there.

Sorry for the soap box rant but im so tired of us vs them, if your playing ddo your apart of this community, how you wish to participate in this community is entirely up to you. we may not always get along there maybe some snootier ones but we should all be one under the game we choose to play. Thats all im saying.

[Xeraphim]

you seem to be confused about noobs and newbs

vets never bash the newbs, they only bash the noobs

big difference

Yep. I love newbs, and am really pleased to help. I do not like NUBs(Non Usable Bodies) and Noobs(Folks who seem to have the IQ of a sea slug, but still managed to somehow pilot their character).

I'll keep reaching out when I can. Thanks, BTN2009, for the reminder of why I stick around. I hope I'm not alone in my opinions.


Side note:: I am really frustrated by the constant "Sorry, I'm F2P and don't have that pack" all the time. I can't personally finance guest passes for half the server.


Translation: "NUB"(Military Term) - Literally a person or thing that cannot in any way contribute in any beneficial way whatsoever. This occurrance in DDO is extremely rare.

[Drfirewater79]

I agree

i have been playing since the first day the EB games near me had a copy.

but one thing i can tell you is this

newb ... noob ... or whatever you want to call it is not a metaphor for new or free to play

there are alot of new players i have come to know that understand listening and following strat to complete a mission

when vets complain about new players its not cause they have something against NEW PLAYERS

they have something against bad players.

no one expects someone who has been playing since june to have multiple lvl 20's with a ton of shroud gear.

if they do expect it then they are idiots ... its not your fault they are idiots but idiots do exist.

its not cause they have been playing for 4 years or 2 months its cause there idiots.

now that this has been said

if you as an individual feel as though when people say newb noob idiot or any other derogitory comment about how you play this game ... then the real question is ...

why do you feel you fit that stereotype ?

in order to be offended there has to be a root of truth ...

the fact that you started this thread means you are offended .... that much i can tell by you saying sorry.



I am not calling you out but what i am saying is

anyone who feels offended must figure out why they are ... what can be done to fix the issue ... is it that they dont listen to commands well ... is it that they dont like not knowing why something is done this way ... is it that they didn't think there choices through or that they have problems dealing with crit' given by others?

if you know what you are doing ... then free to play or not your not the issue

but if your the problem then you should find out why your the problem and learn to play well with others.

elitests are just as bad as noobs ... they are to blame for much of the changes that ruin the game just as much as the noobs.

as for us needing our own servers ... well that wont work cause some vets are now free to play ... and some free to players who have only been here since june are now good seasoned pre-vets them selves.

truth is

everyone needs to learn to get along and to understand that if you dont like someone just dont party with them

we need to stop using noob and elitest and other such comments and just deal with the game as the topic of discussion rather then focus on our hate for each other.

[Visty]

You could try to me more wrong, but you couldn't with your state ment of no advertising was the death of the game. Lack of advertizing was not the cause of dying; the lack of communication to it's current players, the lack of content upgrades and updates is what put DDO on life support.

and now make your big guess: why was there lack of communication, content and updates?
cause of the work on f2p

the circle is closing

[Magusrex777]

Op I think your post was well though out and heart felt.

My only issue with the whole vet vs new thing is everytime a legitimate gripe is put forward now that argument is thrown in the mix and it degrades what could be a very constructive thread into arguing.

The last thread I was in had nothing to do with new players I cant say any more about it since I dont want this thread deleted but like others it became something else which once again became an us vs them.

Anyone who has ever read any of my long winded rants knows I fully believe in supporting this game. If youve hear my interviews about this game you know I love dungeons and dragons and this is the only mmo that has come close enough.

I show my support by continuing to enjoy the game and speaking up for things the game needs. But its hard to do that when constructive posts about high level content, time sinks are turned into "oh you hate new players.."

***? who the heck huh? thats my reaction many times after starting a post on one issue and having to constantly defend myself.

Well no more believe it or not not all of us who have been around for a few years hate new players. We hate the new mechanics with the launch of Ebberon unlimited. And no I do not blame players even the ones who cant get threw quests like Tear of Dkhaan and whined about it.

But it seems like we went from being able to say "Hey devs what happened to communication, or hey we need this fix or this class needs love" to being told "this is how mmos are suck it up." Well some of us dont want to deal with it we want better and thats what many vets complain about. Im just sick of new players thinking our complaints to make the game better are about bashing them. Yes there has been bashing im not blind or ignorant enough to say there has not. But we need to get off that and become a community again. Its the only way this game will not lose the niche feel many of us stuck around for years and love and I think even new to the game players can be apart of this community and help us make this game better then the others out there.

Sorry for the soap box rant but im so tired of us vs them, if your playing ddo your apart of this community, how you wish to participate in this community is entirely up to you. we may not always get along there maybe some snootier ones but we should all be one under the game we choose to play. Thats all im saying.

I think I understand how you feel. I also am tired of us vs them. That said, I do believe it is very hard to keep people satisfied who play many hours per week over several years. I think burn out is natural, it does not make their complaints or criticisms invalid but I do not see it as the sky is falling when a long time player quits. I see someone who has played for 4+ years as a success.

I have left games I have played for a long time. I have never left a post saying anything other than goodbye to my friends and thanking the developers for all the good times I had. Do I think the developers always make the right choices? nope. I will point out what I think is wrong, yes. I will be respectful when I do so, always. When people start calling other players morons or insult the developers, they lose my respect and I do not legitimize their concerns, IMO once you go there the developers tune a person out and rightfully so IMHO.

I thought the DCs for epic content traps were too high, I thought Turbine would fix it. I thought this was a legitimate concern. That is why it should have been fixed. A long time players leaving because of this issue is not the reason to fix something, the issue is. If you are a MMO veteran you understand the ebb and flow to these types of issues how they are in flux, they change, it is balancing, it will continue for the life of the game. When they release new top end content again. You can be certain there will balance issues, it might not be traps but it will be something because some players want difficult challenges and that is extremely difficult to balance when different players have different ideas of what difficult should be. When a person quits a game over something like this I feel there is more to it than just that particular issue, my experience tells me the longer a person plays, the more likely a balancing issue, nerf, a game mechanics change will push them over the edge.

On personal note, I am very glad that you care so deeply about the game and I hope that you will not choose to stop posting your concerns because someone may not agree with your PoV. We all should have opinion here, regardless of our take on things or join date. Hopefully we can act like a community. Thank you for your post I think it is a helpful one.

[Lerincho]

and now make your big guess: why was there lack of communication, content and updates?
cause of the work on f2p

the circle is closing

wrong. legal issue prevent ANY corporation from talking, period.

[Visty]

wrong. legal issue prevent ANY corporation from talking, period.

HAHAHAHA, good laugh

[Lerincho]

HAHAHAHA, good laugh

and you are CEO of which major company again?

[Kalari]

I think I understand how you feel. I also am tired of us vs them. That said, I do believe it is very hard to keep people satisfied who play many hours per week over several years. I think burn out is natural, it does not make their complaints or criticisms invalid but I do not see it as the sky is falling when a long time player quits. I see someone who has played for 4+ years as a success.

I have left games I have played for a long time. I have never left a post saying anything other than goodbye to my friends and thanking the developers for all the good times I had. Do I think the developers always make the right choices? nope. I will point out what I think is wrong, yes. I will be respectful when I do so, always. When people start calling other players morons or insult the developers, they lose my respect and I do not legitimize their concerns, IMO once you go there the developers tune a person out and rightfully so IMHO.

I thought the DCs for epic content traps were too high, I thought Turbine would fix it. I thought this was a legitimate concern. That is why it should have been fixed. A long time players leaving because of this issue is not the reason to fix something, the issue is. If you are a MMO veteran you understand the ebb and flow to these types of issues how they are in flux, they change, it is balancing, it will continue for the life of the game. When they release new top end content again. You can be certain there will balance issues, it might not be traps but it will be something because some players want difficult challenges and that is extremely difficult to balance when different players have different ideas of what difficult should be. When a person quits a game over something like this I feel there is more to it than just that particular issue, my experience tells me the longer a person plays, the more likely a balancing issue, nerf, a game mechanics change will push them over the edge.

On personal note, I am very glad that you care so deeply about the game and I hope that you will not choose to stop posting your concerns because someone may not agree with your PoV. We all should have opinion here, regardless of our take on things or join date. Hopefully we can act like a community. Thank you for your post I think it is a helpful one.

Thanks thats all im trying to say enough of new players this and vet that we all play ddo. Its how you choose to represent this community that stands out to me. Now I get called names for the passion I show for this game I dont care its not going to stop me.

If I see something that affects my game play negatively im going to talk about it, whether its a mechanic, bad player attitude (within forum guidelines) or update. Thats what these forums are about. And sometimes you get the bad (okay a lot of times you get the bad)

But there is a lot of good in these forums and can be even more if we stop fighting amongst each other over who is more important.

If your playing this game at any capacity whether free or paid you are supporting this game you are bringing yourself in your talking about the game to others your getting the word out.

I think the only ones who dont contribute are the ones with their heads buried in the sand who think mmos because its the norm for the rest should not have people speak up. To me it doesnt matter how you play the game if you want to see things done speak up. I rather read it even if I disagree then to ever be a part of a community who does not care. I dont want to see ddo become just another mmo. I want others to try to be what we are.

[Visty]

and you are CEO of which major company again?

same as you appearantly

[Lerincho]

same as you appearantly

i'm not the one proclaiming expertise about definitive answers you seem to have. after all you are the one that claimed F2P killed DDO, when all other measurable quantative data suggests the exact opposite.

[Visty]

i'm not the one proclaiming expertise about definitive answers you seem to have. after all you are the one that claimed F2P killed DDO, when all other measurable quantative data suggests the exact opposite.

reading compehention fail

i never said f2p killed ddo

i said f2p didnt save ddo

big difference

[Horrorscope]

I was not actually playing the game but I was very aware of its existence. I have played MMOs since they started and my fascination for this genre has everything to do with a lifelong affair with D&D since childhood. The launch was perceived as terrible from my view from the outside from what I read in mags, gamesites and game forums. I knew some people I trusted who tried it. They said the game was extremely laggy and was filled with bugs and some people got through all the content in a month. My research led me to believe what they said was true. Even though I consider myself a loyal supporter of Turbine for many years and a huge fan of D&D I was not going to spend time or money until I heard better things.

I believe all that to be true as the consensus, that is why I laugh inside then kick a kitten every time an old timer talks about the good ole days, and make us act like we should be really concerned when a vet leaves today. Many DnD purists won't even consider this game after trying it, many quit very early on due to lack of everything and those that waited for word of mouth, simply ignored it. The forums were much more volatile then and it's amazing it made it through it, I would have bet strongly against it and lost big. The game has come a long way, perhaps more then any mmo. Name a MMO out for years that actually came back stronger then ever?

Obviously since none of us are the lead designer, not everything will be our cup of tea. If this game were to go on strong for another 5, I will have left and come back several times and will be happy each and every time trying out the new things. This games wins simply because I don't go collect meaningless X of X's, it has unique dungeons.

I really look forward to their next mmo.