A small plea on Behalf of all healer types....

[vVAnjilaVv]

Casters, rogues......or more specifically just in general......if u have a low amount of hitpoints please be aware that many monsters in this game cleave.......stay back or attack from behind.

I see way to many low hitpoint builds thinking they are safe because they don't have aggro and just standing there like a pinata. If u are in the path of such foes...they will hit...and probably kill you.

Yes stuff like diplomacy works to shed a monsters aggro but they are still going to hit u if ur in the way. Also if u do not have heavy fort by the time your in GH....don't even go into front line fighting. Moderate fort is not even good enough considering how hard these monsters hit if u have low hitpoints.

Clerics and healing Bards have a small mana pool when such players are in a group, and I have seen so many FvS that don't heal or only heal themselves...or heal very inefficiently because they think they have plenty of SP and are out before they know it.

I don't know about other healers.....but if u are this type of player....I WILL NOT heal you.

Thank You

[Impaqt]

Actually, mobs dont get glancing blows.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Actually, mobs dont get glancing blows.

Noted and thanks...I'll edit that.

They still cleave tho...and extremely hard.

[Consumer]

Either stop PUGing and find a good guild or suck it up.

[taurean430]

Could you define please what you mean by 'healing inefficiently'

I'm curious about your meaning there.

[hydra_ex]

Could you define please what you mean by 'healing inefficiently'

I'm curious about your meaning there.

Whole party has a tiny bit of damage. You decide to cast a quickened/maxxed/emped/eschew materials cure critical wounds mass.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Either stop PUGing and find a good guild or suck it up.

Pfft..whatever...if I came across as begging u got the wrong impression.

And no, I will not suck it up and spend insane amounts of resources to cover someone elses bad playstyle.


Find a good guild....lol.....that's funny.....every guild I have been in so far either is full of bad players with a couple good players here or there, who think that because they have numbers they will suceed or a bunch of attitudes that are just plain annoying to deal with.

Maybe I should have titled it differently, as this is actually more of a warning from clerics who won't deal with sloppy play and actually have money because they will not cover the expense of a sponge, instead of the healbots whining about being broke all the time.

EXAMPLE...running thru Vale to get to Ritual Sacrifice.

Rangers shouts, "whoa, I just got crit-killed!". I ask if he has heavy fort...says no, I offer to buy him a heavy fort item before we start quest...says he doesn't need heavy fort...

I drop group. TRUE STORY

No sorry...I will not suck that up.

[taurean430]

Whole party has a tiny bit of damage. You decide to cast a quickened/maxxed/emped/eschew materials cure critical wounds mass.

Ah, I see...

There must be more high charisma build FvS running around than I originally anticipated. Thanks for the clarification.

[Razcar]

Noted and thanks...I'll edit that.

They still cleave tho...and extremely hard.
Cleave Hard
Starring Bruce Willis as the Shroud Orthon

[vVAnjilaVv]

Cleave Hard
Starring Bruce Willis as the Shroud Orthon

:D WAIT! He was the good guy.......if he is an orthon who praytell plays the heroic LG Paladin in this Shavarath spin on things?

BTW.....When does Cleave Hard II: Great Cleave Harder come out?

[Fenrisulven6]

Either stop PUGing and find a good guild or suck it up.

*snicker*

what makes you think she's not talking about you? :p

[Dragonhyde]

All build types can benefit from knowing their surroundings even those with a hefty HP shield.

[Consumer]

*snicker*

what makes you think she's not talking about you? :p

My low AC barbs (which are not dps toons apparently) put on a mod fort docent at 6 and minos at 11/12. Keep seperate topics seperate, just because I have flamed you for whining previously doesnt mean you have to make false accusations.


Big numbers do not make a good guild, the guilds that are selective about who they recruit are likely to be far better players, I thought that would have been obvious but maybe not.

Myddo (zomg wut) will save you a lot of hassle if you insist on PUGing.

[Fenrisulven6]

My low AC barbs (which are not dps toons apparently)

Still confused, I see. No one said your barbs weren't dps toons.

What we said was that they suck up more mana on feeble mobs than two fighters doing the same job in the same amount of time.

You need a nanny-healbot to maintain your "huge" DPS. :p



just because I have flamed you for whining previously doesnt mean you have to make false accusations.

Oh please. Don't flatter yourself. You had a meltdown because we were poking fun at all the Leroy's out there. You took it personal.



Big numbers do not make a good guild, the guilds that are selective about who they recruit are likely to be far better players, I thought that would have been obvious but maybe not. Myddo (zomg wut) will save you a lot of hassle if you insist on PUGing.

Wow. Elite guilds are selective? Who knew? Captain Obvious wins again. Grats.

You are SO smart and we are all SO VERY PROUD of you.

[Slink]

For those of you having problems with survivability I proudly present SquishSplat.

She is str/charisma based 5 rogue/15 wizard and at lvl 20 has max points in repair(?) and intimidate incase the melee hit harder than her firewall.

This build is not for the faint of heart.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Squishsplat
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(5 Rogue \ 15 Wizard)
Hit Points: 70
Spell Points: 779
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 20
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 6 6
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 18 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 9
Bluff 4 5
Concentration 0 0.5
Diplomacy 4 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 8 14
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 1
Intimidate 8 31
Jump 8 14
Listen 3 6
Move Silently 4 5
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 5 23
Search 1 3
Spot 3 6
Swim 4 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Repair


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell




As you can see, I only chose firewall and ice storm as those are the best at generating agro over a fairly large area.
I also invested some points into jump and took the heighten feat for leaping from high places.
Even with evasion, a 9 reflex save should make things challenging.
Enjoy!

[shadosatblackphoenix]

To be fair, no one really should have "low hit point". Rogues get a bad reputation for being so squishy, but its really the players that make them so far more than the class (especially since they can get improved evasion and very high reflex saves, which help a lot).

There is absolutely no excuse for ANYONE, regardless of race and class, to have less than 300 hit points, and 300 hit point is enough to straight up tank Harry (on normal, mind you) if you have at least one competent healer in the party, and this, regardless of how bad the lag is. Its not ideal, but at 300 hp there's no reason you should die.

Note that this is really a bare minimum, and most builds should strive for far more than that.

Now, what irks me isn't low HP people getting hit by cleave. Its people that are not tank-able (either high AC, or high hp, meaning I don't have to pay attention to them too much) running ahead and soloing mobs face to face in melee while everyone else are on other mobs. Thats a lot worse than low hp people getting cleaved: the mob takes forever to die since only 1 person is beating up on it, and its a squishy person doing it. Annoying! Most frequent offenders being str build rogues and glass cannon built tempest rangers. No soloing mobs in a corner please.

[Rav'n]

Cleave Hard
Starring Bruce Willis as the Shroud Orthon

Saw a Great Older movie last night... think it was the Shroud Orthon's debut Role...

To Cleave and Die in L.A.

[Krag]

To be fair, no one really should have "low hit point". Agreed. If you have "low hp" fix it immediately or do your server a favor and delete. Rogues get a bad reputation for being so squishy, but its really the players that make them so far more than the class (especially since they can get improved evasion and very high reflex saves, which help a lot).

There is absolutely no excuse for ANYONE, regardless of race and class, to have less than 300 hit points, and 300 hit point is enough to straight up tank Harry (on normal, mind you) if you have at least one competent healer in the party, and this, regardless of how bad the lag is. Its not ideal, but at 300 hp there's no reason you should die. The reason is called lag. 500hp are nrequired to feel somewhat safe.

Note that this is really a bare minimum, and most builds should strive for far more than that.

Now, what irks me isn't low HP people getting hit by cleave. Its people that are not tank-able (either high AC, or high hp, meaning I don't have to pay attention to them too much) running ahead and soloing mobs face to face in melee while everyone else are on other mobs. Thats a lot worse than low hp people getting cleaved: the mob takes forever to die since only 1 person is beating up on it, and its a squishy person doing it. Annoying! Most frequent offenders being str build rogues and glass cannon built tempest rangers. No soloing mobs in a corner please.
/SIGNED!
At the very least stay in range of mass heals centered on badass barbarian. Archers, I'm looking at you.

Comments in red.

[Raenef]

hehe just an observation I'm back from beta, and posts like this were going up all the time even then. Well I'm still gonna play my cleric, but I feel the same way. IMHO I wish everyone would roll a cleric and play at least to lvl 5, so they get an idea of what it takes to be a good cleric.

[uhgungawa]

Accually to all the people out there that think that Con is a dump stat

http://www.cohesivegraphics.com/images/baby_reroll.jpg

[Bolo_Grubb]

you can't heal stupid

[Vikkus]

Noted and thanks...I'll edit that.

They still cleave tho...and extremely hard.

They sure do. I made the mistake once of getting too close.

My poor robes were in shambles!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Low HP does not get you killed. Taking too much damage too quickly gets you killed. (or failing to heal/be healed before taking more damage.)

Most players however find it easier to avoid taking too much damage too quickly by giving themselves more of a buffer... i.e. more HP.

Most players also seem to need a dedicated healer in the group to supliment their huge HP buffer.

But for those with low HP who would like some advice, the OP's advice is valid. Many high lvl monsters have a cleave attack. And Ogres and Trolls have a flailing attack that seems to strike anyone in the way as they jump around and swing wildly in front of them. And many high lvl Orthons have a whirlwind like attack that they emply to attack everything around them.

All of these can be avoided, but it is very, very difficult to do so. (and most players don't even try) I'm pretty good at avoiding a lot of damage, but these types of attacks get me a lot too. Even when I think I am being careful.

if you have a low HP char, you need to give some serious thought to how you are going to stay alive during heated battles.
One way of course is to make yourself less squishy. Items that add HP or temp HP. Fort items. AC, DR, spells to buff you and add to your survivability.
There are many, many ways in this game to make yourself less squishy.

Damage mitigation tactics! (basically not getting hit in the first place) Lots of ways to accomplish that too. (although standing in a doorway quickly ceases to be fun when the whole rest of the group charges past you and engages the monsters far away from your safe location. :( )

And often overlooked: bring your own healing!
I cannot even begin to emphasize how important it is for a squishy char to be able to heal himself up. it makes a world of difference in survivability to be able to get yourself back up to full HP. A 600HP Barbarian may be just fine at half health. A 160 HP Rogue at half HP is about two hits from death. And those two hits will probably come at almost the same instant. And could even come from a monster targetting someone else, if you are standing in the wrong place. (which brings us back to the original post)

Anyway, if you take a good look at what happens in combat, you can see many common situations, and try to learn how to avoid those situations in the future.
My Rogue now swings really, really wide to circle to the back of a mob. To avoid archers, and cleave-like attacks targetting someone else.
My Cleric stands way away from the rest of the party for similar reasons, and also to avoid AOE spells targetted at the rest of the party. (but darn if someone doesn't always run toward me when they have agro!!! :mad: )(that really gets to me! :mad:)

[Fenrisulven6]

if you have a low HP char, you need to give some serious thought to how you are going to stay alive during heated battles.
One way of course is to make yourself less squishy. Items that add HP or temp HP. Fort items. AC, DR, spells to buff you and add to your survivability.
There are many, many ways in this game to make yourself less squishy.

I would add be more mobile. Expeditious Retreat clickies, cheap and easy at 3 clicks on lvl 1 gear. Not for running away, but to move faster into and out of combat. Getting to the shaman before he can unleash a lightning bolt does wonders for increasing not only your own survivability, but that of the party.

[Xeraphim]

For those of you having problems with survivability I proudly present SquishSplat.

She is str/charisma based 5 rogue/15 wizard and at lvl 20 has max points in repair(?) and intimidate incase the melee hit harder than her firewall.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Squishsplat
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(5 Rogue \ 15 Wizard)
Hit Points: 70
Spell Points: 779
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 20
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 6 6
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 18 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 9
Bluff 4 5
Concentration 0 0.5
Diplomacy 4 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 8 14
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 1
Intimidate 8 31
Jump 8 14
Listen 3 6
Move Silently 4 5
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 5 23
Search 1 3
Spot 3 6
Swim 4 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Repair


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell




This reminds me of a certain "Melee Wizard" from Mabar... He went Wiz Pure though, and took 8 STR.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Demii Goddess
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Elf Male
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 60
Spell Points: 1345
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 11
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10 10
Dexterity 18 18 18
Constitution 6 6 6
Intelligence 10 11 11
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 20 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8 8
Bluff 6 12.5 12.5
Concentration -2 -2 -1
Diplomacy 4 10.5 10.5
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 5 5
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 4 6.5 8.5
Intimidate 4 5 5
Jump -1 0 2
Listen -1 -1 4
Move Silently 4 6.5 8.5
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 0 1
Search 0 0 3
Spot -1 -1 5
Swim -1 0 0
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Acrobatic
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Throwing Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Spell (1): Grease
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Sleep


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Protection From Evil


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Spell (1): Repair Light Damage
Spell (2): Scare


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Spell (2): Command Undead
Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Spell (3): Sleet Storm
Spell (3): Water Breathing


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Spell (4): Fear
Spell (4): Lesser Globe of Invulnerability


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Spell (4): Fire Trap
Spell (4): Fire Shield


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Casting
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Teleport


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (5): Dismissal


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Spell (6): Circle of Death
Spell (6): Create Undead


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Battleaxe
Spell (6): Globe of Invulnerability
Spell (6): Mass Bull's Strength


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (7): Mass Invisibility
Spell (7): Symbol of Weakness


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Spell (6): Greater Dispel Magic


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Transmutation
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (6): Symbol of Fear


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (8): Sunburst
Spell (8): Symbol of Death


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Spell (9): Mordenkainen’s Disjunction


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Stealthy
Spell (4): Burning Blood
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Spell (4): Bestow Curse
Spell (8): Greater Shout


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Illusion
Spell (3): Hold Person
Spell (3): Slow
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Hearing I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Hearing II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Hearing III
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes III
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes IV
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration I
Enhancement: Wizard Repair I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery IV
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I




He had a favorite light mace he refused to stop using until he got an Iron Cleaver, then used that and other battle axes he could find.

There are few true masters in this game, but he was a Master of Partywipes.

Sleet Storm in VON 6 on the dragon was just sheer genius. Of course, nobody had FoM.


I remember those days with great mirth... those challenges could not be better manufactured.

[Aashrym]

This reminds me of a certain "Melee Wizard" from Mabar... He went Wiz Pure though, and took 8 STR.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Demii Goddess
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Elf Male
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 60
Spell Points: 1345
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 11
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10 10
Dexterity 18 18 18
Constitution 6 6 6
Intelligence 10 11 11
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 20 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8 8
Bluff 6 12.5 12.5
Concentration -2 -2 -1
Diplomacy 4 10.5 10.5
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 5 5
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 4 6.5 8.5
Intimidate 4 5 5
Jump -1 0 2
Listen -1 -1 4
Move Silently 4 6.5 8.5
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 0 1
Search 0 0 3
Spot -1 -1 5
Swim -1 0 0
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Acrobatic
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Throwing Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Spell (1): Grease
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Sleep


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Protection From Evil


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Spell (1): Repair Light Damage
Spell (2): Scare


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Spell (2): Command Undead
Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Spell (3): Sleet Storm
Spell (3): Water Breathing


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Spell (4): Fear
Spell (4): Lesser Globe of Invulnerability


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Spell (4): Fire Trap
Spell (4): Fire Shield


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Casting
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Teleport


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (5): Dismissal


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Spell (6): Circle of Death
Spell (6): Create Undead


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Battleaxe
Spell (6): Globe of Invulnerability
Spell (6): Mass Bull's Strength


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (7): Mass Invisibility
Spell (7): Symbol of Weakness


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Spell (6): Greater Dispel Magic


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Transmutation
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (6): Symbol of Fear


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (8): Sunburst
Spell (8): Symbol of Death


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Spell (9): Mordenkainen’s Disjunction


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Stealthy
Spell (4): Burning Blood
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Spell (4): Bestow Curse
Spell (8): Greater Shout


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Illusion
Spell (3): Hold Person
Spell (3): Slow
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Hearing I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Hearing II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Hearing III
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes III
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes IV
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration I
Enhancement: Wizard Repair I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery IV
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I




He had a favorite light mace he refused to stop using until he got an Iron Cleaver, then used that and other battle axes he could find.

There are few true masters in this game, but he was a Master of Partywipes.

Sleet Storm in VON 6 on the dragon was just sheer genius. Of course, nobody had FoM.


I remember those days with great mirth... those challenges could not be better manufactured.

Wow.....a CON of 6 is a big fat ouch on any character, let alone one to tries to melee. Hopefully it was at least a learning experience for that player.

[Krag]

Low HP does not get you killed. It only kills your clerics pocket. Taking too much damage too quickly gets you killed. (or failing to heal/be healed before taking more damage.)

Most players however find it easier to avoid taking too much damage too quickly by giving themselves more of a buffer... i.e. more HP. Most players avoid taking daage whenever it is possible AND have a huge HP bar.

Most players also seem to need a dedicated healer in the group to supliment their huge HP buffer. Most players want a dedicated healer but can survive without.

But for those with low HP who would like some advice, the OP's advice is valid. Many high lvl monsters have a cleave attack. And Ogres and Trolls have a flailing attack that seems to strike anyone in the way as they jump around and swing wildly in front of them. And many high lvl Orthons have a whirlwind like attack that they emply to attack everything around them.

All of these can be avoided, but it is very, very difficult to do so. And usually you have to sacrifice some of your DPS to avoid being hit. I.e. withdrawing from blades when the rest of the party continues beating Harry. (and most players don't even try) I'm pretty good at avoiding a lot of damage, but these types of attacks get me a lot too. Even when I think I am being careful.

if you have a low HP char, you need to give some serious thought to how you are going to stay alive during heated battles. If you have a low HP char, you need to reflect whether you are contributing party member or a waste of a slot.
One way of course is to make yourself less squishy. Items that add HP or temp HP. Fort items. AC, DR, spells to buff you and add to your survivability.
There are many, many ways in this game to make yourself less squishy. But none of them can obsoletes HP/AC/DR/...

Damage mitigation tactics! (basically not getting hit in the first place) Lots of ways to accomplish that too. (although standing in a doorway quickly ceases to be fun when the whole rest of the group charges past you and engages the monsters far away from your safe location. :( )

And often overlooked: bring your own healing!
I cannot even begin to emphasize how important it is for a squishy char to be able to heal himself up. it makes a world of difference in survivability to be able to get yourself back up to full HP. A 600HP Barbarian may be just fine at half health. A 160 HP Rogue at half HP is about two hits from death. And those two hits will probably come at almost the same instant. And could even come from a monster targetting someone else, if you are standing in the wrong place. (which brings us back to the original post) Agreed. Although I wouldn't restrict the need for own heals to 160hp rogues only.

Anyway, if you take a good look at what happens in combat, you can see many common situations, and try to learn how to avoid those situations in the future.
My Rogue now swings really, really wide to circle to the back of a mob. To avoid archers, and cleave-like attacks targetting someone else.
My Cleric stands way away from the rest of the party for similar reasons, and also to avoid AOE spells targetted at the rest of the party. (but darn if someone doesn't always run toward me when they have agro!!! :mad: )(that really gets to me! :mad:) You said it yourself. Bad groups happen. Slow healers, stupid barbarians, doorstopping paladins, squishy rogues, etc. You can rely on your own skill but you can't expect others to perfectly execute their jobs. Solid player should be able to carry 5 stones to the end if need be.

Comments in red.