Drows time to put them up to 32 points

[Murderface]

a few rogues and mostly sorcs and wizards. rare melee classes why is this class stunted from the getgo at 28 points?
understood in pnp theydo have a monster lvl and suffer and xp penalty but thats pnp
in ddo theres no justification to keep drow at 28 points really once you have the ability to make32 points then u should be able to get 32 point drow
here is why
racial enhancments drows are the weakest in comparison
they make weak melee with 28 points and a -2 stat penalty in con

do you really think drow would be overpowered even as a double tr with 36 points
i think not
in fact it will bring more variety in melee besides wf halfling human dwarf
which is quickly turning into wf and hafling for maxamized damage output and even with a 32-36 point drow wont bring so why not just put them at 32 points once its available.

i know drow enhancments
most suck
really suck bad
i mean sr 20 lol thats laughable
rapier damage?
too bad most people like kopesh
but if they were 32 points at least we would see some rapier wielding fs drows or clerics or something besides
sorc wiz rogue bard

there not overpowered. even with 36 points it wont be too overpowered
lets look at drows competition in the main classes chosen for drow
wiz/sorc half a cha/int mod over human. 2 mods over wf but wf have repair how would 32 points make these other races obsolete answer: it wouldnt
lets look at rogue with an int boost and rapier damage pales in comparison to halfling cunning which pretty much pigeon holes them as trapmonkey and in now way would 32 point make halflings obsolete
now lets look at paladins hmm easy way to get dm 4 but you lose when u sac a feat and 2 con to an already feat starved class so in reality humans even elves make better paladins in some points of view. would 32 points make them overpowered the answer is not in the slightest
i myself am working on dm 4 twf kopesh using wf with the ability to scroll recon himself.
oh and you think they would excel at barding answer wrong halfling companion makes them meh so so usualy haggle bots who never see the inside of a quest

so my point is the way this game is the cha and int bonus are completly negated by other racial enhancments
when they first came out maybe since there was only 4 enhancments but now there very underpowered and in most cases gimp only sorcs do they exceed slightly over a human 1/2 cha mod and compared to wf and an average player wf win every time
there are drow sorcs that are extremly powerful but you can say the same for wf as well
but even as powerful as a 28 point drow full cha sorc is its not gonna make them overpowerd to make them 32 pointers not on iota
what it will do is make more viable options to play a drow

now i know someone is gonna say hey my drow pally rules or my drow this exploiter rules yada yada
but in reality its the player who makes the race good as melee

so i reiterate please lets just do away with this bias against drow i know when they were first announced everyone was crying how powerful they are but inreality even in there best class there only slightly better then a human over them with half a cha mod and 2 mods ahead of wf sorc 1 mod ahead of wf wiz but they repair so its really moot to just keep at 28 points

[vettkinn]

I have a solution comrade. Nerf Warforged instead, strip them off their immunities. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Stalker7d7/redSmile.png?t=1269764753

But really, it will balance arcane casters somewhat.

[Ironforge_Clan]

I hate to break this to you because it totally debunks your rant/post but Drow is already a 32 point build.

[Bacab]

/not signed

It would not be overpowered...because drow suck. But human enhancements suck also. IMHO WF make the best everything except Divine Caster...which I like Human for the bonus WIS enhancement and bonus feat..

To make drow a 32 point character would be broken...

though maybe we can come to an agreement.

Offer Drow a 32 point build, but at character creation, they get a -2 CON and a +2 to DEX or INT or CHR. You pick at character creation. It would indeed level the playing field a bit. I also agree that Drow are really only "the best" at 2WF PLD. But really no one race should be best at everything.

[Murderface]

I hate to break this to you because it totally debunks your rant/post but Drow is already a 32 point build.
i know yada yada they get +6 in bonuses and -2 in con which gives them a positive in int and cha lol
int and cha
int and chaaaaaaaaaa
uhm dex too but halflings and elves have that

soooooo

what character realy uses int and cha hmmmmmmm?
rogue halflings own em
batman intim tanks almost anything without a con penalty owns em
what else uses int and cha hmmmmmmmmmmmm
the answer is 0
when they came out sure i made a 8 ftr 2 pally then 2 rogue when it came out

seemd great but with the enchancments change i realized soon after it was gimpppppppppp
any race is better then a drow except for one half mod in either int or cha

ive played other games with 32 point drows and there is a minor xp penalty but im sorry to tell u dude in reality there not that great wf halflings humans dwarves all own drows even with there so called 32 points

but its not 32 points its 28 ok dude

lol thats like saying wf is a 30 point character lol thats an inane argument my friend. and more of the stupid paradigms people think of when thinking of drows int and cha bonus

int and cha int and cha does that even matter
i could see if it were con and cha lol maybe then they would be overpowered
or str and con
or str and wis
or wis and con
or anything besides cha and int lmao

tell me one build that drows excel in besides drow sorc or wiz which i have said many times only half a mod over human hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
oh yeah and humans extra skill point negates that extra drow int mod skill k
please learn more bout dnd before you parrot reply in my thread

[Murderface]

/not signed

It would not be overpowered...because drow suck. But human enhancements suck also. IMHO WF make the best everything except Divine Caster...which I like Human for the bonus WIS enhancement and bonus feat..

To make drow a 32 point character would be broken...

though maybe we can come to an agreement.

Offer Drow a 32 point build, but at character creation, they get a -2 CON and a +2 to DEX or INT or CHR. You pick at character creation. It would indeed level the playing field a bit. I also agree that Drow are really only "the best" at 2WF PLD. But really no one race should be best at everything.
oh lordy human enhancments suck????????????? lordy lordy lordy cmon dude seriously really human enhancments suck lmao
look dude ugh
they get 2 stat points in any stat of there choosing how does that suck please tell me in which dnd setting does 2 stat point in any stat just as long as its not the same stat.
how does that suck hmmm
humans have extra feat
humans have extra skill point.....
which inherently negates any int skill factor for a melee
they only slightly exceed in sorcs and wiz by half a modifier in int and cha geez dude get a clue humans are **** good
in fact my human kensai boosts human vers damage and fighter haste simultaneously and with that extra feat i have quickdraw which makes it half the time to recover for a melee attack

so yeah wrong dude try again
so i reiterate since this is not pnp and ddo and ddo have enhancments thy should be on even playing feild
32 points wont make one bit of dif

too all those with drows they should be given hearts so they can turn there 28 point gimp into a balanced race
right now it is not due to enhancments
if they game had 0 enhancments then drows prolly should stay 28 but thats not the case and giving them 32 points isnt gonna make them overpowerd even 32 point drow sorc - the 7.8 mil xp that it takes to tr them twice

[Gremmlynn]

Well if one is dissatisfied with the race, maybe one should just not play it? It seems to be a rather popular race among those I see playing. Though I've yet to figure out why anyone would want to play anything other than a dwarf due to pure sexiness, drow do seem to be played a lot as is.

[Murderface]

Well if one is dissatisfied with the race, maybe one should just not play it? It seems to be a rather popular race among those I see playing. Though I've yet to figure out why anyone would want to play anything other than a dwarf due to pure sexiness, drow do seem to be played a lot as is.
ive played drow they were really good until
A enchancments changed and B 32 point came out now there meh
even as sorc wiz bard rogue there meh
im not saying this cuz im disgruntled my drow stinks cuz i dont have one lol
i have 2 wf 1 halfling 2 humans no dwarves cuz i refuse to roll one and elves i just hate regular elves
makng them 32 points would make them less pigeon holed then squishy caster or squishy trap monkeys

this would balance the races more but even with 32 point it wont overpower drow it wont make people roll less halflings wf humans dwarves but what it will do is make drow a more viable race option for something other then rogue, bank bard, sorc and of course wiz
which are just slightly better then human a half a mod compared to an extra feat and no con penalty

[Bacab]

I get it now. If someone disagrees with you they are wrong. My bad.

Seriously man I was trying to offer constructive criticism. Dwarves get bonuses to all axes. WF get Power Attack enhancements and Save Enhancements and 2HF enhancements. Elves get Scimitars enhancements and DEX and save enhancements. Halfling get guile.

I agree Drow get hosed. But I feel Humans *enhancements* are not up to par. If you want to talk blanket Race Traits...that is different than *enhancements*.

Dwarf are near impossible to knock down and get huge bonuses to saves. Also Dwarf getting a +2 in a physical stat and only a -2 in a mental stat...is indeed "overpowered" or "optimal".

Warforged are **** near immune to everything.

Elf get some nice weapon prof. for free. Bonus DEX and have Arcane Archer.

Halfling IMHO are unfair since they get all the bonuses to being small...the +1 to hit and AC...and none of the minuses...the small weapon damage.

Drow are indeed gimped. They have the worse racial *Enhancements* in the game. They also have **** stat allocation. I refuse to play drow due to this.

If you want to play "Drow" why not just make a dark-skinned elf?

What do humans get that make them so special? Essentially they get +2 INT (bonus skill points). I agree, drow suck more than humans for most things. That being the case, if you like other races so much, why play drow?

It is intentional that its

32pt any race> Drow> 28 any race

Lets see how this is unlocked favor-wise.


28 point build=0 Favor

Drow=400 Favor

32 Point Build=1750 Favor

Yeah looks like it is WAI.

I understand your grief, but races have not had a big change in what...2 years? And if you are ****ed now...I really do not want to see you when 80% of all the level 1-19 Toons will be Half-Orc soon.

Murderface, I was not trying to insult you. I like your posts that you have. I like your forum name...Metalocalypse is awesome (not sure what came first though you or it). But seriously man, do not be so defensive and quick with the...

ROFLLAMAOBBQKITTEN comments when someones opinion differs from yours. Makes you seem like a hyper-petty 12 year old. I know thats not you, but just saying...it seems that way.

Also notice my comprimise...drow take that -2 CON and get +2 to either DEX or INT or CHR...but also now start at 32 points.

[Gercho]

Drows are played a lot cause is much easier to unlock drow than unlock 32 points, so for some classes drow works like a 32 point build, for me the only class for what drow is better is lvl 20 twf paladin, but just by a small margin over human.
If you splash another class, so you dont need DMIV then human is better.

Anyway, i think that drows should be 30 points, not 32, so you get an extra +2 over the other races, +4 over warforged that have superior racial traits.
And give the drows the sr = 11+lvl for free.

[Hendrik]

I get it now. If someone disagrees with you they are wrong. My bad.

Makes you seem like a hyper-petty 12 year old. I know thats not you, but just saying...it seems that way.



You sure about that?

[Aurora1979]

/not signed

1. as stated above, they ARE 32 points, if you had an extra 4 points to spend on them then they would be a 36 point build.

2. they make excellent rogues, high int, excellent sorcerers high cha (yes there is a debate about best class for a sorcerer but i think everyone would agree that the drow is perfectly acceptable for a sorcerer, less hp yes, which isnt great but max cha which is. the debate rages on.

3. they actually make ok clerics too. cha already there and starting with 10 int is never a bad thing.

4. they have enough racial benefits to carry them through.

oh yea and.....

"rapier damage?
too bad most people like kopesh"

unless your going finesse build right? :D i think your way off mate. IMO

[Murderface]

Drows are played a lot cause is much easier to unlock drow than unlock 32 points, so for some classes drow works like a 32 point build, for me the only class for what drow is better is lvl 20 twf paladin, but just by a small margin over human.
If you splash another class, so you dont need DMIV then human is better.

Anyway, i think that drows should be 30 points, not 32, so you get an extra +2 over the other races, +4 over warforged that have superior racial traits.
And give the drows the sr = 11+lvl for free.

tell you what i had a twf pally drow
i trd him from halfling
had kopesh and not better then human
i got a +4 cha tome on him and said nah
tr now ima wf twf kopesh
started with max cha
he is lvl 12 and is far far far far far far superior to my drow pally

go ahead and my ddo him name is: bandabras

[Bacab]

tell you what i had a twf pally drow
i trd him from halfling
had kopesh and not better then human
i got a +4 cha tome on him and said nah
tr now ima wf twf kopesh
started with max cha
he is lvl 12 and is far far far far far far superior to my drow pally

go ahead and my ddo him name is: bandabras

you are comparing a multipled TRed Pali with a non-TRed pali.
Also you now have a +4 Tome. Can not really compare those characters. And I agree WF>Drow. Especially a 36 Point WF with a +4 CHR Tome for a PLD (WF only struggle with DM4).

[AZgreentea]

I havent been here very long, so I have to learn all my DDO history through forum posts (misinformation?). The way I understood the sequence of events, 32 point builds were introduced because everyone complained that Drow builds were overpowered with their equivalent too 32 points.

I have tinkered with a few races, but not gotten anything to end game. So far, most races seem very well balanced. Drows dont seem speced for melee and races like WF are (but can be any class with a few trade offs). I thought thats the way D&D was done? Its not supposed to be a bunch of vanilla races like Star Wars Galaxies where the only difference between them is what color their skin is and whether or not they speak Basic.

[Murderface]

oh yea and.....

"rapier damage?
too bad most people like kopesh"

unless your going finesse build right? :D i think your way off mate. IMO
heh finnese in most cases=gimp
finnese halfling rogues pwn gimp drowtrap monkeys hehe

you are comparing a multipled TRed Pali with a non-TRed pali.
Also you now have a +4 Tome. Can not really compare those characters. And I agree WF>Drow. Especially a 36 Point WF with a +4 CHR Tome for a PLD (WF only struggle with DM4).
i was unhappy with the drow i was planning to keep him but meh once i seen how they performed i was unimpressed so guess what out with the drow in with the wf

You sure about that?
hurrayyyyyy ive been looking for you to add to my collection your the small one with yellow hair in the middle :)
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/borisbadass/jo_trolls_3_420x315.jpg

snip
ive heard that spiel about them already. being 32 points but its mandatory 32 points which in fact makes it not 32 points it makes it 28 points with racial stat bonus. just like wf are not 30 point builds or at 28 points would you say wf are 26 point builds?
i think not
i apologise for coming off as nasty but honestly its not a 32 point build seldom do int and cha go good on the same character and many other races with a true 32 point have huge advantage not only in stat points but also in racial enhancements

[Bacab]

I do not want to turn this "Drow must be ungimped" thread into a "Please Gimp Warforged" thread.

I mainly play 2 Toons and level a ton of alts.

My Main is a Human FVS (lotta work and gear into him). He is also my first capped toon...

A Warforged Axesinger BRD (hes stupidly un killable...no fail Recon scrolls) 15BRD/3ROG/2FTR

My new alts are a WF FVS, a WF WIZ/ROG (18/2), and a WF Pure SOR.

See a trend here?

WF>all

(lets keep it that way)


~Bacab

[cm2_supernova]

Drow should at the very least get a +2 bonus to all grammar related skills :rolleyes:

[sultro]

/not signed

drow already make excellent chars. if you want a challenge, fine, play them as the character classes they are not best suited for. there is nothing wrong with min/maxing race selection. there is also nothing wrong with roleplaying. so if you want to be the talk of your server, adapt the monster build to drow and play it well. everyone will know who you are. first, because you made something difficult work for you, and second because it takes real skill to go the distance with a less than optimized char. if your not good enough for that, then play drow for the char classses they are good for like everyone else. do not, however, expect the rest of us to agree that you should break drow just because you want to do something less than optimal.

i do agree that drow sr is horrible. 10 or 11 + level would be far more appropriate given the divine casters ability to exceed drow sr at mid to high level. with enhancements, it should always be more than what a divine can cast at equal level.

Proud leader of The Beholder's Bane Adventuring Co, Cannith

[Murderface]

Drow should at the very least get a +2 bonus to all grammar related skills :rolleyes:

hahaha funny funny lol

hey if any of you would like to be my editor then fine by me edit my post and i will edit your edit into my edited post

my awful grammar is truely the worst grammar on ddo forums by far with English as a first language
so should i stay silent and be wary of the grammar police nahhhhhhh
you can read it besides i still make valid points and grammar isnt anything close to what im talkin about hurr k

[Ragemage]

a few rogues and mostly sorcs and wizards. rare melee classes why is this class stunted from the getgo at 28 points?
understood in pnp theydo have a monster lvl and suffer and xp penalty but thats pnp
in ddo theres no justification to keep drow at 28 points really once you have the ability to make32 points then u should be able to get 32 point drow
here is why
racial enhancments drows are the weakest in comparison
they make weak melee with 28 points and a -2 stat penalty in con

do you really think drow would be overpowered even as a double tr with 36 points
i think not
in fact it will bring more variety in melee besides wf halfling human dwarf
which is quickly turning into wf and hafling for maxamized damage output and even with a 32-36 point drow wont bring so why not just put them at 32 points once its available.

i know drow enhancments
most suck
really suck bad
i mean sr 20 lol thats laughable
rapier damage?
too bad most people like kopesh
but if they were 32 points at least we would see some rapier wielding fs drows or clerics or something besides
sorc wiz rogue bard

there not overpowered. even with 36 points it wont be too overpowered
lets look at drows competition in the main classes chosen for drow
wiz/sorc half a cha/int mod over human. 2 mods over wf but wf have repair how would 32 points make these other races obsolete answer: it wouldnt
lets look at rogue with an int boost and rapier damage pales in comparison to halfling cunning which pretty much pigeon holes them as trapmonkey and in now way would 32 point make halflings obsolete
now lets look at paladins hmm easy way to get dm 4 but you lose when u sac a feat and 2 con to an already feat starved class so in reality humans even elves make better paladins in some points of view. would 32 points make them overpowered the answer is not in the slightest
i myself am working on dm 4 twf kopesh using wf with the ability to scroll recon himself.
oh and you think they would excel at barding answer wrong halfling companion makes them meh so so usualy haggle bots who never see the inside of a quest

so my point is the way this game is the cha and int bonus are completly negated by other racial enhancments
when they first came out maybe since there was only 4 enhancments but now there very underpowered and in most cases gimp only sorcs do they exceed slightly over a human 1/2 cha mod and compared to wf and an average player wf win every time
there are drow sorcs that are extremly powerful but you can say the same for wf as well
but even as powerful as a 28 point drow full cha sorc is its not gonna make them overpowerd to make them 32 pointers not on iota
what it will do is make more viable options to play a drow

now i know someone is gonna say hey my drow pally rules or my drow this exploiter rules yada yada
but in reality its the player who makes the race good as melee

so i reiterate please lets just do away with this bias against drow i know when they were first announced everyone was crying how powerful they are but inreality even in there best class there only slightly better then a human over them with half a cha mod and 2 mods ahead of wf sorc 1 mod ahead of wf wiz but they repair so its really moot to just keep at 28 points

Drows as 32 Point-Buy characters? What are you sniffing lol!

[Murderface]

/not signed

drow already make excellent chars. if you want a challenge, fine, play them as the character classes they are not best suited for. there is nothing wrong with min/maxing race selection. there is also nothing wrong with roleplaying. so if you want to be the talk of your server, adapt the monster build to drow and play it well. everyone will know who you are. first, because you made something difficult work for you, and second because it takes real skill to go the distance with a less than optimized char. if your not good enough for that, then play drow for the char classses they are good for like everyone else. do not, however, expect the rest of us to agree that you should break drow just because you want to do something less than optimal.

i do agree that drow sr is horrible. 10 or 11 + level would be far more appropriate given the divine casters ability to exceed drow sr at mid to high level. with enhancements, it should always be more than what a divine can cast at equal level.

Proud leader of The Beholder's Bane Adventuring Co, Cannith

there really not best suited for anything but haggle bot and sorc even so wf are really strong in that category and really takes skill not to stink on a drow
also drows have inheret sr that raises every lvl as a racial feat why its an enhancment i have no idea

[wamjratl1]

what character realy uses int and cha hmmmmmmm?
rogue halflings own em
batman intim tanks almost anything without a con penalty owns em
what else uses int and cha hmmmmmmmmmmmm
the answer is 0


Sorcerers can Max Cha w/ drow. Wizards can max Int and have decent Cha for UMD, Diplo. Rogues need both for skills, UMD, diplo. Any character can benefit from higher Int for extra skill points.... There are tons of possibilities for drow.

Bottom line, they already are 32 point builds. Period. You want to make them 34 point builds? TR.

[cm2_supernova]

hahaha funny funny lol

hey if any of you would like to be my editor then fine by me edit my post and i will edit your edit into my edited post

my awful grammar is truely the worst grammar on ddo forums by far with English as a first language
so should i stay silent and be wary of the grammar police nahhhhhhh
you can read it besides i still make valid points and grammar isnt anything close to what im talkin about hurr k

My point is that if you cant speak intelligently, dont expect people to take you seriously.

Here are some of the problems I have with your argument:

Drow are available at 400 favor and 32 point builds are available at 1750. That is significant grind differance. With Drow, players get the chance to play a 32 point character (even though 4 of those points are assigned for you) far before any other 32 point build.

I know one of your points was if you can unlock 32 points, make a 32 point drow...but why would a player make something other than a drow when you can make a 36 point character instead of a 32?

Also, dont overlook the fact that the ability to start 3 stats at 16 while only paying a 1:1 point ratio is pretty good.

Consider too that just because YOU dont see any drow melee doesnt mean there isnt any

There is much much more, but I dont have the time to hit all of it because I have work :D

[tihocan]

I think Drow are fine, except they should really get their SR as per D&D rules. Right now the enhancement line for it is just pointless past the mid levels.

[Matuse]

what character realy uses int and cha hmmmmmmm?

You mean besides Rogues, Wizards, Sorcerers, Favored Souls, Paladins, and Bards?

And /major not signed. Depending on how you build, you can make 28 point drow that non-drow need 34 (or more) points to duplicate.

Obviously if you are making a drow with maxxed out wis/str/con, you're in trouble. But try throwing a bunch of points into dex/cha/int, and see if any other race can begin to compete with that. Hint: They can't.

If you just want to make some kind of superman race with no drawbacks, then the whole wide world exists out there for you to make your own game. Or load up a copy of Baldur's Gate I or II, make a black skinned elf with white hair, and cheat in a bunch of tomes to get straight 25s.

[Murderface]

. Any character can benefit from higher Int for extra skill points
uhm humans have extra skill point so that negates that and there max cha is 1/2 modifier over human
so if a drow eats +4 cha tome +3 exceptional and +6 enchanted bonus
what happens when a human with the same stuff gets a epic concord cloak
there the same
except humans have an extra feat which they can spend for an evocation, enchantment or necromancy focus
a true 32 point drow(ive played them in nwn2) wont really have anything on any other races that they already have just makes them more viable for other classes besides sorc

[Eladiun]

Drow should at the very least get a +2 bonus to all grammar related skills :rolleyes:

ROFL... my thoughts exactly it's pretty hard to take a post seriously when it is written that poorly. I disagree with the entire premise though...drow are fine. Any way this whole issue will be fixed in MOD11 when they remove all races and everyone plays as amorphous gray blobs.

[Gercho]

tell you what i had a twf pally drow
i trd him from halfling
had kopesh and not better then human
i got a +4 cha tome on him and said nah
tr now ima wf twf kopesh
started with max cha
he is lvl 12 and is far far far far far far superior to my drow pally

go ahead and my ddo him name is: bandabras

I have to agree with this, double tr'ed warforged with +4 cha tomes are better than 28 point drows with +2 tomes for paladin...

My point was, drow is a good class for people starting the game, that dont have 32 points build but can unlock drow easily, and wont have any +4 tomes anytime soon, but could get a couple of +2 tomes while leveling.

And i agree that drows could get some beefing, i proposed 30 points instead 32 and free good sr...

[Murderface]

My point is that if you cant speak intelligently, dont expect people to take you seriously.
honestly im not speaking oh grandmaster of the english language if you were to talk to me my diction is not lacking in any way shape or form but anywhooooooooooooooooooo
your point is since its easy to unlock drow then its suitable for them to stay at 28 points after you unlock 32 wrongggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
ok i get it its like a bike with training wheels once you unlock your 32 point you can put it in the bank and make a haggle bot out of it

32 points would balance the race and thats the facts
int can be minned on any class just about except for wiz and be just fine at 8. int and cha does not really add up to much to be honest its not very conducive
ok gives rogue +1 to umd +1 to skill if your not human snooooze
like i said theres no reason to make a drow right now unless u want a max dc sorc or wiz which in raids and groups i lead when it comes to players i dont know i prefer wf because i know they prolly dont have 230 hp and get killed soon as they get a bit of agro

[sultro]

there really not best suited for anything but haggle bot and sorc even so wf are really strong in that category and really takes skill not to stink on a drow
also drows have inheret sr that raises every lvl as a racial feat why its an enhancment i have no idea

hmmmm, wrong, right, true(but not relevent), and obviously wrong.

so, wrong) they aren't the best haggle bots, humans are. try checking the bard forums for builds

right) i still like drow sorc best. though i do understand some other racial builds for them.

true(but not relevent) ) first, while what you say may be true, its hardly a fair comparison. your comparing a vip only race and 1750 required favor to a ftp 400 favor. and second, the fact that some other race can play a char as well as drow doesn't make the drow underpowered. given warforged ability to play many classes, they may be overpowered, but that is a seperate issue. its also one that is very arguable. given that warforged start with 4 points less char, their dc's top end become an issue. they have other issues that make me favor drow as well. suggest you read the sorcerers forums.

obviously wrong) i think we've already heard enough about the many wonderful drow char builds from other posters. if you haven't seen enough, i'm sure you can find plenty in the drow forums.

[Aspenor]

no, none of your post is accurate (except their enhancements sucking).

[Murderface]

I have to agree with this, double tr'ed warforged with +4 cha tomes are better than 28 point drows with +2 tomes for paladin...

My point was, drow is a good class for people starting the game, that dont have 32 points build but can unlock drow easily, and wont have any +4 tomes anytime soon, but could get a couple of +2 tomes while leveling.

And i agree that drows could get some beefing, i proposed 30 points instead 32 and free good sr...

there basicly training wheels anyways once they unlock 32 points why not have 32 point drow still no one has answered my question on how would a natural 32 points that you can spread in any stat gonna overpower the class one bit
maybe back when there was only 4 enhancements you could make that argument but no longer!!!!!!!!!!
oh and for the record wf double tr is better then a drow double tr with the same tome ;)

[Murderface]

no, none of your post is accurate (except their enhancements sucking).

really insightful care to elaborate or we just supposed to take your word on it master of the green epeen?

[Aspenor]

really insightful care to elaborate or we just supposed to take your word on it master of the green epeen?

You're supposed to take my word for it, obviously. No elaboration is necessary. Your entire post can be thrown out and should be changed to "make drow enhancements better and give them their free innate SR."

[Murderface]

snip.

hahaha ok dude what about humans do they have a problem with end game dc i think nottttttttttt
also i dont know what end game you play but i do play end game or did before my double tr uhm yeah
wf sorcs are probably far more in demand for the repair prowess on the most powerful warrior class in the game
you act as if 2 dc is the end all be all but in reality its not and wf sorc are very in demand for end game.
death spells and cc which are meh in end game anyway so a drow can hit a mass hold better then a wf then that makes the automatically the schnizzlit i think not...
i never said they didnt make excelent sorcs
i said drows are really only good for sorcs and thats about it
trap monkeys heh there cool while u lvl but are not so great endgame i refusd entry to a drow who had 300 hp at lvl 20 he was working on being able to do epic traps hehehehe
uhm yeah no thanks your not end game your just a very niche rogue

[Aspenor]

Alternatively, they could make a 32 point drow option. The 32 point drow option would start at level -1 and receive no character levels until level 1. They would also level cap at level 18 if you took this option.

[Beld]

so I can play a race that has 'no' drawbacks and can pwn anything with it....

That is your argument in a nutshell.....the differing races all have inherent strengths AND weaknesses that make them all fun to play and keep the game from being a boring sea of the same race/class repeated ad nauseum.

Incedentally, you have blown your own argument up several times in the thread....maybe wanna take a look at your troll picture and compare it to the one in the mirror.

[Murderface]

You're supposed to take my word for it, obviously. No elaboration is necessary. Your entire post can be thrown out and should be changed to "make drow enhancements better and give them their free innate SR."
i am not an enhcnament fan ok no more enhancements need to be added except for there bastardized prc enhancements
i love this majority rules garbage just because 51 percent of the memebers agree that makes the other 49 percent told that your opinion is not valid

ahhh democracy at its worstest
answer the question how would a real 32 point drow be over powered
even a 36 point one
a 36 point drow pally still wouldnt outdamage my 36 oops i mean 34 pt wf( since they have penalty to cha and wis lmao) even with no enhancments drow wouldnt beat my immunities and being able to to be healed by every spell caster in the game
therefor would not be overpowered with 32 34 36 point drows
so answer the question oh green peen trolling machine how would having drow be at natural 32 point imbalance the game or overpower drow hmm answer or else
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/borisbadass/Slappingface.gif

[Sinni]

what character realy uses int and cha hmmmmmmm?
rogue halflings own em
batman intim tanks almost anything without a con penalty owns em
what else uses int and cha hmmmmmmmmmmmm
the answer is 0


my halfling wiz/rogue does (umd, diplo, search, disable device)
all rogues do (see above)
bards do (perform (?), umd, diplo=
and sorcs probably too (to get more skill points)
heck, even intimidate tanks do! (intimidate and combat expertise)

[Astars]

Gonna build a 30 point drow twf pure pally (TR from monk) and he'll rock.
He'll be the equivalent of a 38 point human build (due to dex and cha requirements).
Getting 17 cha and 15 dex at 16 str is nice and absolutely necessary for the build to work (wanna aim for dual epic chaosblades sometime in 2015)

[Eladiun]

It's not the race or class or choices of enhancements that gimps a character...it's PEBCAK.

Problem
Exists
Between
Chair
And
Keyboard

[Aashrym]

i am not an enhcnament fan ok no more enhancements need to be added except for there bastardized prc enhancements
i love this majority rules garbage just because 51 percent of the memebers agree that makes the other 49 percent told that your opinion is not valid

ahhh democracy at its worstest
answer the question how would a real 32 point drow be over powered
even a 36 point one
a 36 point drow pally still wouldnt outdamage my 36 oops i mean 34 pt wf( since they have penalty to cha and wis lmao) even with no enhancments drow wouldnt beat my immunities and being able to to be healed by every spell caster in the game
therefor would not be overpowered with 32 34 36 point drows
so answer the question oh green peen trolling machine how would having drow be at natural 32 point imbalance the game or overpower drow hmm answer or else
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/borisbadass/Slappingface.gif

If the extra points won't matter why do you want them?

Better enhancements would be good, or just stick with a 32 point something else if you like that better.

[Aspenor]

i am not an enhcnament fan ok no more enhancements need to be added except for there bastardized prc enhancements
i love this majority rules garbage just because 51 percent of the memebers agree that makes the other 49 percent told that your opinion is not valid

ahhh democracy at its worstest
answer the question how would a real 32 point drow be over powered
even a 36 point one
a 36 point drow pally still wouldnt outdamage my 36 oops i mean 34 pt wf( since they have penalty to cha and wis lmao) even with no enhancments drow wouldnt beat my immunities and being able to to be healed by every spell caster in the game
therefor would not be overpowered with 32 34 36 point drows
so answer the question oh green peen trolling machine how would having drow be at natural 32 point imbalance the game or overpower drow hmm answer or else
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/borisbadass/Slappingface.gif

Just because you have no clue what you're talking about doesn't mean your argument is valid.

For MAD characters (do you know what MAD means? I bet you don't) Drow would be the clear and obvious superior choice where build point allocation is concerned.

Posting pictures such as the one you did only further shows your incompetence at presenting an argument.

[Murderface]

Gonna build a 30 point drow twf pure pally (TR from monk) and he'll rock.
He'll be the equivalent of a 38 point human build (due to dex and cha requirements).
Getting 17 cha and 15 dex at 16 str is nice and absolutely necessary for the build to work (wanna aim for dual epic chaosblades sometime in 2015)

your behind the times bro http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Weapon:Epic_Allegiance
that already makes this the weapon to get heh and it should be alot easier then desert since desert has a bagilion named items and this ones shard will drop in pop
so people thinking about huge umd just to get a wpn that gives a neg lvl meh
with that extra feat ill prolly get extend to work with madstone
my pure drow did alot of damage but it was not as sturdy as i would like

[Murderface]

Just because you have no clue what you're talking about doesn't mean your argument is valid.

For MAD characters (do you know what MAD means? I bet you don't) Drow would be the clear and obvious superior choice where build point allocation is concerned.

Posting pictures such as the one you did only further shows your incompetence at presenting an argument.
dude your still not answering the question your not elaborating your snickering on this i know something you dont
enlighten us or ****agtfo my thread because i do have a clue i have played 32 point drows and im telling you right now that it would balance the race and not just pigeon hole them to sorc wiz bard and crappy trap monkey rogue
and now i dont know what mad is but i know what FOS means and you are without a doubt FOS
lol does mad include being a sorc or wizard lmao because seriously if you come at me with any other class for race besides wiz or sorc ill show u a better build for every other race and ill make it on the spot sucka

[Aspenor]

your behind the times bro http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Weapon:Epic_Allegiance
that already makes this the weapon to get heh and it should be alot easier then desert since desert has a bagilion named items and this ones shard will drop in pop
so people thinking about huge umd just to get a wpn that gives a neg lvl meh
with that extra feat ill prolly get extend to work with madstone
my pure drow did alot of damage but it was not as sturdy as i would like

Epic Allegiance? Wow.

you really don't have a clue do you? it's worse than i thought.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think Drow are fine, except they should really get their SR as per D&D rules. Right now the enhancement line for it is just pointless past the mid levels.

I agree with this. They should go by the book on Drow SR. It will already be MUCH less powerful than in PnP because of the direct damage rules but it would then at least be somewhat useful.

[Aspenor]

dude your still not answering the question your not elaborating your snickering on this i know something you dont
enlighten us or ****agtfo my thread because i do have a clue i have played 32 point drows and im telling you right now that it would balance the race and not just pigeon hole them to sorc wiz bard and crappy trap monkey rogue
and now i dont know what mad is but i know what FOS means and you are without a doubt FOS
lol does mad include being a sorc or wizard lmao because seriously if you come at me with any other class for race besides wiz or sorc ill show u a better build for every other race and ill make it on the spot sucka

I already explained it to you, but you don't get it. Not my problem.

[Murderface]

I agree with this. They should go by the book on Drow SR. It will already be MUCH less powerful than in PnP because of the direct damage rules but it would then at least be somewhat useful.

you agree with that but you dont agree that they should be at the same 32 point as per dnd rules as any other class
lol besides sr is stupid in this game turbine doesnt want you to block there precious elemental damage spells :P

right there the inability for sr to block damage spells gimp drow in a big way and should have there monster lvl taken away because of it!

[Murderface]

I already explained it to you, but you don't get it. Not my problem.
you dont get it
i see you playing rogue, bard, cleric, fs, barb, fighter, paladin, ranger and monk im gonna call u a fn gimp hows that your gimp if you play anything but sorc or wiz and even then your still pretty gimp to a wf sorc or wiz lmao

so does mad mean your gimp i think so i think you are truly gimpy
you play a lawful good fighter dwarf hahaha
mauhahahahahaha
dwarves suckkkkk and are gimpsters there damage suckkssssssss
buahahahaha ac defenders are stupid lame and are fn awful no one but your guildees will let that gimp thru on end raid muahahahahahaa
dwarves suck so bad dude so very very bad lmao i probably could make a drow better then that hunk of sh*t
the fearless lmao move to khyber and see how many times your gimp ass gets rejected no one wants a stupid intim build anymore
and if you are better be a wf or your a gimpster

i love these so called forum masters but when it comes down to the real game there gimpsters

hmm think ill put that in the ddowiki gimpster omfg you dont even have a dps melee all fn gimpsters holy fn s*** u suck dude *** yeah have a nice time soloing cuz with those gimp ass melees your not doing very well are ya

lol omg u suck beyond suck dude i would never ever ever ever ever call any of those toons leet more like sheet

check out all these gimps this dork has holy fn cow dude thanks for the laugh buahahahahahahahaha http://my.ddo.com/aspenor/
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/borisbadass/you-are-too-funny-ag1.gif
just remember folks when u need dps dont call on this mad gimp lmao
thx for proving my point loser
drows must be 32 point to avoid making gimpy rogues and rangers muahahahahaa
oh id like to make a new acronym EOFGOS
and that means expert on forums gimp on server

hurray i did figure it out this dude is mad gimp lmao

omg omg he still uses a dwarven axe buahahahahhahahahahahaha u suck dude your dps is gimpified lol you will always be a sixth man unles u solo sucka

[Aspenor]

you dont get it
i see you playing rogue, bard, cleric, fs, barb, fighter, paladin, ranger and monk im gonna call u a fn gimp hows that your gimp if you play anything but sorc or wiz and even then your still pretty gimp to a wf sorc or wiz lmao

so does mad mean your gimp i think so i think you are truly gimpy

Yes, I do get it. You're just wrong. You don't understand what I said to explain why, and I'm not playing toddler trainer today.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

you agree with that but you dont agree that they should be at the same 32 point as per dnd rules as any other class
lol besides sr is stupid in this game turbine doesnt want you to block there precious elemental damage spells :P

right there the inability for sr to block damage spells gimp drow in a big way and should have there monster lvl taken away because of it!

You can have you 32pt drow if you properly include the monster level, meaning no L20 and no class level in the beginning.

And being able to start with a max 20 in key stats is extremely powerful and I can't help that you don't understand that.




your behind the times bro http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Weapon:Epic_Allegiance
that already makes this the weapon to get heh and it should be alot easier then desert since desert has a bagilion named items and this ones shard will drop in pop
so people thinking about huge umd just to get a wpn that gives a neg lvl meh
with that extra feat ill prolly get extend to work with madstone
my pure drow did alot of damage but it was not as sturdy as i would like

THAT is what you think the weapon to have is? Why, I'm not even sure it would out DPS T3 GS.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

you dont get it
i see you playing rogue, bard, cleric, fs, barb, fighter, paladin, ranger and monk im gonna call u a fn gimp hows that your gimp if you play anything but sorc or wiz and even then your still pretty gimp to a wf sorc or wiz lmao

so does mad mean your gimp i think so i think you are truly gimpy
you play a lawful good fighter dwarf hahaha
mauhahahahahaha
dwarves suckkkkk and are gimpsters there damage suckkssssssss
buahahahaha ac defenders are stupid lame and are fn awful no one but your guildees will let that gimp thru on end raid muahahahahahaa
dwarves suck so bad dude so very very bad lmao i probably could make a drow better then that hunk of sh*t
the fearless lmao move to khyber and see how many times your gimp ass gets rejected no one wants a stupid intim build anymore
and if you are better be a wf or your a gimpster

i love these so called forum masters but when it comes down to the real game there gimpsters

hmm think ill put that in the ddowiki gimpster

What you smoking?

[Gercho]

you dont get it
i see you playing rogue, bard, cleric, fs, barb, fighter, paladin, ranger and monk im gonna call u a fn gimp hows that your gimp if you play anything but sorc or wiz and even then your still pretty gimp to a wf sorc or wiz lmao

so does mad mean your gimp i think so i think you are truly gimpy
you play a lawful good fighter dwarf hahaha
mauhahahahahaha
dwarves suckkkkk and are gimpsters there damage suckkssssssss
buahahahaha ac defenders are stupid lame and are fn awful no one but your guildees will let that gimp thru on end raid muahahahahahaa
dwarves suck so bad dude so very very bad lmao i probably could make a drow better then that hunk of sh*t
the fearless lmao move to khyber and see how many times your gimp ass gets rejected no one wants a stupid intim build anymore
and if you are better be a wf or your a gimpster

i love these so called forum masters but when it comes down to the real game there gimpsters

hmm think ill put that in the ddowiki gimpster

There is nothing more annoying that someone with bad grammar that calls everyone a gimp and that wont take in consideration any argument against his opinion. Why do you post something for discussion if every argument that doesnt agrees 100% with you will be dismissed with aggressive answers?

[Aspenor]

What you smoking?

Seems like ice crystals or something.

[Aspenor]

check out all these gimps this dork has holy fn cow dude thanks for the laugh buahahahahahahahaha http://my.ddo.com/aspenor/


This from somebody too cowardly to have a single public character profile. :rolleyes:

If I need DPS, I'll call on somebody that knows Epic Allegiance is garbage. I expect he's one of those "I'm so uber look at me guys" people that everybody laughs at when they leave the party.

[spyder7723]

you dont get it
i see you playing rogue, bard, cleric, fs, barb, fighter, paladin, ranger and monk im gonna call u a fn gimp hows that your gimp if you play anything but sorc or wiz and even then your still pretty gimp to a wf sorc or wiz lmao

so does mad mean your gimp i think so i think you are truly gimpy
you play a lawful good fighter dwarf hahaha
mauhahahahahaha
dwarves suckkkkk and are gimpsters there damage suckkssssssss
buahahahaha ac defenders are stupid lame and are fn awful no one but your guildees will let that gimp thru on end raid muahahahahahaa
dwarves suck so bad dude so very very bad lmao i probably could make a drow better then that hunk of sh*t
the fearless lmao move to khyber and see how many times your gimp ass gets rejected no one wants a stupid intim build anymore
and if you are better be a wf or your a gimpster

i love these so called forum masters but when it comes down to the real game there gimpsters

hmm think ill put that in the ddowiki gimpster omfg you dont even have a dps melee all fn gimpsters holy fn s*** u suck dude *** yeah have a nice time soloing cuz with those gimp ass melees your not doing very well are ya

lol omg u suck beyond suck dude i would never ever ever ever ever call any of those toons leet more like sheet

check out all these gimps this dork has holy fn cow dude thanks for the laugh buahahahahahahahaha http://my.ddo.com/aspenor/






Folks, let this be a lesson to you. Paddle your children before its too late! :D

[Murderface]

Yes, I do get it. You're just wrong. You don't understand what I said to explain why, and I'm not playing toddler trainer today.

your a gimp thats all i need to know gimp noob perma noob
uhm lamer
lets see
FOS
i seen better characters rolled up by 6th graders pfffffft
in fact i know chicks with better characters then that motley crue of craptastic dps
this is one of those guys you know there the experts on everything till they talk to someone who really knows whats up

a bunch of monk spash **** is what u got sucka

MAD
=
Moronic
avoided
dweeb
do you know on elite(epic) tod run with sol kill that none of your characters even fit the criteria there all hellafied gimp and if you did get into one your the one thats dead weight sucka that cant tow the line

in fact the only way u gonna be let in is if your guildees feel sorry for you and let you come in and pike or play whatever u wanna call it

[Aspenor]

your a gimp thats all i need to knwo gimp noob perma noob
uhm lamer
lets see
FOS
i seen better characters rolled up by 6th graders pfffffft
in fact i know chicks with better characters then that motley crue of craptastic dps *****

Irrelevant. My entire server will take any of my characters because they know I'm a solid player. Of course, we don't know if you have any decent characters at all because, well, you hide. I find your insolence and immaturity to be highly amusing, clueless, yet amusing.

[Aspenor]

do you know on elite(epic) tod run with sol kill that none of your characters even fit the criteria there all hellafied gimp and if you did get into one your the one thats dead weight sucka that cant tow the line

Why don't you show us your uber build? Oh, that's right, you won't. Too scared.

[Murderface]

This from somebody too cowardly to have a single public character profile. :rolleyes:

If I need DPS, I'll call on somebody that knows Epic Allegiance is garbage. I expect he's one of those "I'm so uber look at me guys" people that everybody laughs at when they leave the party.

dude lmao you ASSume too much lol think hard dude do i look like a sheep like you and your fellow green e peen police squad yeah no im not so why dont you figure it out

and im from khyber dude and theres already 2 of my characters names in this post

your just a gimp tag along like i said before someone who people thought were good till they nerfd your precious wop now your just dead weight
EXPERT
On
FORUM
GIMP
ON
SERVER

and as far as as allegiance goes dude wait till i make them puppys sing stick to your dwarven axe ya gimp

x4 crit multiplier 19-20 natural crit range

[Aspenor]

dude lmao you ASSume too much lol think hard dude do i look like a sheep like you and your fellow green e peen police squad yeah no im not so why dont you figure it out

and im from khyber dude and theres already 2 of my characters names in this post

your just a gimp tag along like i said before someone who people thought were good till they nerfd your precious wop now your just dead weight
EXPERT
On
FORUM
GIMP
ON
SERVER
Yeah, you kinda look like a sheep, actually, hiding behind your "this person has no public characters."

[Rasczak]

Folks, let this be a lesson to you. Paddle your children before its too late! :D

...I can't...stop....laughing.......this thread is ridiculously to close to a car crash...meaningless and deadly and 100% pointless, but you watch in case something you-tube happens :D

[Aspenor]

x4 crit multiplier 19-20 natural crit range

Garbage.

[Murderface]

Yeah, you kinda look like a sheep, actually, hiding behind your "this person has no public characters."

boy your quick lol im a coward hahaha i burn cubes with torches and i set toleros panties on fire ;) if you could see past your low sloped forhead you could see that i already did that ya big dummy
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/borisbadass/365598_f520.jpg

My toons are all Garbage.

[Alavatar]

*munches popcorn*

It's been a while since I have seen someone arguing with a fool. Great way to de-rail and lockdown a thread, though! :D

[Aspenor]

*munches popcorn*

It's been a while since I have seen someone arguing with a fool. Great way to de-rail and lockdown a thread, though! :D

Isn't it though? I already win, but he doesn't know it. :D

[Murderface]

Isn't it though? I already win, but he doesn't know it. :D

you win gimp of the year
and you are without a doubt someone who gets a sympathy invite from guildees with yo gimp characters
after they let you in they change lfm to need dps please buahahahahahaha

[Tarrant]

Mm, love the smell of locked threads in the morning.