Newest Bard Build

[Sanligo]

I am looking for tips on my new bard build, I tried a ranged Bard but found that I liked melee more, so I decided to reroll. As I took 3 times to perfect my ranged build, I'd like to get this one right right away. I want him to be mostly a CC-Support-Buffing-Bard but I want him to do decent DPS with sword and board. (Or maybe dual wielding, which is better overall, AC and DPS?) I did a halfling before, but I might do a human this time around, what is better for melee? Anyway, here is my build, thanks for your advice.
Edit: Big mistake sorry, I meant to put the skill points into move silently, not listen.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Eromir the Wanderer
Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 768
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 16
Dexterity 12 14
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 2
Bluff 3 7
Concentration 4 23
Diplomacy 3 9
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 7
Heal -1 -1
Hide 5 27
Intimidate 3 7
Jump 6 28
Listen 3 26
Move Silently 1 4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 7 37
Repair 0 0
Search 0 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 2 3
Tumble 2 3
Use Magic Device 7 33

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening II

[BoBoDaClown]

Lots of stuff to 'fix'

Assuming you want to be CC orientated - max charisma and get spell casting and healing feats.

Drop the dex, sicne you'll have decent reflex saves anyway, and pump Con. (unless you want to twf, in which case you need higher dex). I'd probably dop int to 8 so you can get con to 14 (with the dex drop).

Drop listen and hide and pick up balance.

Useless Feats:
1) Weapon Focus SLash - unless you gonna grab power attack and be a warchanter.
3) SF; Perform - your perform will be massive without it.
9) Power Critical - doesn't add any damage.
12) SF: UMD - actually useful lower, but your UMD will get so high you probably won't need this at high levels.

USeful SPellcasting Feats:
Heighten
Spell Foc: Enchant - there are two of these.
SPell Pen - there are tow of these
Empower Healing or Maximise
Quicken
Extend

Useful FIghting Feats (some would require a rebuild)
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Critical
Power Attack
Toughness
Weapon Focus- only to quealify for qarchanter, which also requires power attack.



RACE:
Halfling - makes good melee orientated war chanters
Human - makes good CC Spellsingers

[unbongwah]

I want him to be mostly a CC-Support-Buffing-Bard but I want him to do decent DPS with sword and board. (Or maybe dual wielding, which is better overall, AC and DPS?)
First off, "decent DPS" and "sword & board" generally don't belong in the same sentence; that goes double for halflings. Halfling bards who want to do decent DPS are better off with TWF.

Second, do you want your CC to come from spells, songs, or both? Because if you want to be an effective CC spellcaster, you typically need to sacrifice your melee abilities to focus on casting (max CHA, metamagic feats, etc.). Whereas a bard's CC song(s) are a lot easier to make effective without minmaxing them, leaving more points & feats for beefing up their melee skills.

[Sanligo]

After taking you advice, I came up with this. I don't want to do major DPS, just enough to help the group a little, so I went with sword and board so I don't drain the healers mana and I mainly want to CC by songs, with maybe a little spells. Mostly I want to keep my spells for buffing.
Thanks for your advice.
Edit: I mostly want help with the ability scores, because I can the rest without rerolling later on in the game.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Eromir the Wanderer
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 882
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 17
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 15
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 26

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 25
Bluff 3 8
Concentration 6 27
Diplomacy 3 10
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 8
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 3 8
Jump 7 26
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 7 38
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 3
Tumble 4 24
Use Magic Device 7 31

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Perform
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Balance I
Enhancement: Bard Balance II
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Tumble I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III

[BoBoDaClown]

After taking you advice, I came up with this. I don't want to do major DPS, just enough to help the group a little, so I went with sword and board so I don't drain the healers mana and I mainly want to CC by songs, with maybe a little spells. Mostly I want to keep my spells for buffing.
Thanks for your advice.
Edit: I mostly want help with the ability scores, because I can the rest without rerolling later on in the game.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Eromir the Wanderer
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 882
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 17
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 15
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 26

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 25
Bluff 3 8
Concentration 6 27
Diplomacy 3 10
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 8
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 3 8
Jump 7 26
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 7 38
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 3
Tumble 4 24
Use Magic Device 7 31

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Perform
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Balance I
Enhancement: Bard Balance II
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Tumble I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III




It's not going to work for you.

Shield mastery = next to worthless for a bard.

Using a shield = worthless for the vast majority of bards past a certain level - you'll never have a good enough AC to mitigate ANY damage.

Skill FOcus Perfom = Feat waste. Your perform will be really high naturally.

Since you want to be a CC bard, maximise the CC attribute; Charisma. Reduce str to 14, dex to 8, and max CHa.

I'd also rearrange feats - empower healing I think is needed by level 6 to qualify for Spellsinger, and spell pens are more useful at mid/high levels (10+).

I'd pick up both spell focus: enchants and heighten (losing mental toughness, shield mastery and perform).

Hope that helps.

[unbongwah]

Skill FOcus Perfom = Feat waste.
It's one of the possible pre-reqs for Virtuoso - I presume that's why Sanligo took it.

With DEX 10 and light armor, your AC is gonna suck, no matter what shield you use. But even if you raised your DEX, bards usually end up with low-ish AC anyway. They rely on aggro management to avoid being attacked and spells like Blur / Displacement to avoid being hit.

If you're willing to pass on most of the CC spells, you don't need such a high CHA; Virtuosos rely on their songs for CC, not spells. Base CHA 12 or 14 (+ enhs) is sufficient.

Here's my idea for a 28-pt TWF human Virtuoso: base stats 16 / 15 / 14 / 8 / 8 / 12. All level-ups into STR; boost STR & CHA with Human Versatility and take bard CHA enhancements. Feats: Toughness, TWF, SF Perform (can be swapped when you hit lvl 10), Extend, ITWF (need +2 DEX tome by lvl 9), Imp Crit Piercing (dual-wield rapiers), GTWF, Power Attack. Most important skills are Concentration, Perform, and UMD; I also recommend Diplomacy; Haggle if you don't already have a hagglebot; spread remaining points between Balance & Jump; I would only put a point into Tumble to unlock it. Could also go elf for the rapier & DEX bonuses; or halfling for the DEX & flanking bonuses.

Gameplay-wise, you buff the party before fights, hit your CC songs when fighting big mobs, dual-wield away, back off if you're taking too much aggro, provide secondary heals as need be (I prefer using wands - save my SPs for buffs).

[Sanligo]

Third try. Even with the lower CHA my song CC will still work right?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Eromir the Wanderer
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 681
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 26
Bluff 1 4
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy 5 29
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 1 4
Jump 7 29
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 5 36
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 6
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 5 27

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Balance I
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Perform III
Enhancement: Bard Perform IV
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III

[BoBoDaClown]

It's one of the possible pre-reqs for Virtuoso - I presume that's why Sanligo took it.



My fault for not reading through everything correctly - I had assumed SS for some reason :)

[BoBoDaClown]

Third try. Even with the lower CHA my song CC will still work right?



Yup. This build could easily be changed to a WC by switching Perform Feat to Weapon Focus at a later point - if you so wish.

Just FYI - the 'flavour' of this latest build has just completely changed -it is now a dps focussed build, as opposed to CC. Nothing wrong with it though.

:)

[BelgarianSernium]

No clue how to put the boxes in so will just show you what I did with my Virtuoso. Still not sure if my preform is high enough as this is what my CC songs are based off of:


Strength-14 (20) with item
Dex-8
Con-14 (20) with item
Int-12 (more skill points)
Wis 8
Charisma 18 (42) +9 GS...+6 item..+3 enhancements...+2 prodigy...+3 tome...+1 litanny of the dead

Skills I focused on are:
Haggle 62 with +15 item...GH...and concordant opposition (+5 to skills)
UMD 50 with golden cartouche...GH... and concordant opposition
concentration 32
bluff 45
balance 28 (important for any toon)
dipllomacy 44
preform 71 with GH and concordant opposition (believe this can get higher but now sure how atm) with this preform I am able to enthrall nearly everything in amrath except those with death ward which are immune

Feats:
force of personality
greater spell pen
heighten
least dragonmark of passage (optional)
lesser dragonmark of passage (optional)
spell pen
skill focus preform

Enhancements:
extra song 1-3
inspired attack 1-3
inspired damage 1-3 (+7 total increase for this type) warchanter caps out at +9)
lingering song 1-4 (8+ minutes)
virtuoso
prodigy
human adaptability charisma
preform 1-4
lyric song 1
improved spell pen 1
energy of music 1-4
charisma 1-3

For the most part I am very happy with my build. She is able to do most everything I want her to do and has become an extremely effective CC buffing bard with a spell pen of +27
As I said I am sure there can be improvements made on this toon as I am still experimenting with her. Hope this helps

[unbongwah]

Even with the lower CHA my song CC will still work right?
Right - your CC song DC is based solely on your Perform skill, which is a lot easier to boost than your spell DC. E.g., SF Perform is +3, Virtuoso is another +2, at least +2 from the Bard Perform enhancements - and don't forget all your temporary skill buffs like Human Versatility, Heroism / Good Hope, etc. [Too bad you can't use Inspire Competence on yourself for another +2!] And that's before any Perform skill-boosting items you equip; you should be able to find a +3 or +5 item pretty early on and they just go up from there. The boost from higher CHA is actually fairly negligible and those stat points are better spent elsewhere on a Virtuoso.

Forgot to mention: when you hit level 10, you can take the Bard Extra Song IV enhancement to meet your Virtuoso pre-req, which would let you swap SF Perform for another feat: e.g., a second meta-magic feat like Maximize or an Exotic weapon proficiency (Khopesh being the standard recommendation for TWF builds).

A Virtuoso gives up some of the Warchanter's DPS and Ironskin Chant for longer-duration song buffs and better CC songs. Since I find CCing more fun than straight DPS, I enjoy my Virtuoso a lot. They also have lower feat pre-reqs, which is a plus for a feat-starved class like bards, IMHO.

[Sanligo]

Thank you alot. I'm loving this bard it's very fun to play.

[Noyabrina]

How can you use fascinate without hide/m.silently strategy??? Have you enough time for use fascinate?

[BoBoDaClown]

How can you use fascinate without hide/m.silently strategy???

You time your fascinate so it goes off just as you reach the monsters, i.e. start singing early.

[Noyabrina]

Ok. What is the strategy of virtuoso? I understood that fascinate has effect like sleep or hypnotism, but with long casting time and small radius. Fascinate's strenght depends from perform skill (not charisma). Virtuoso can use suggestion on fascinated mobs (mass or single target?). But on low levels (1-4) i see that I kill mobs much faster, than using fascinate strategy. May be this bard can be effective only in party? May be I must be at least 6/10/20 level? I see that move silently/hide strategy could be more effective. May be even move silently + invisibility.

[BoBoDaClown]

Ok. What is the strategy of virtuoso? I understood that fascinate has effect like sleep or hypnotism, but with long casting time and small radius. Fascinate's strenght depends from perform skill (not charisma). Virtuoso can use suggestion on fascinated mobs (mass or single target?). But on low levels (1-4) i see that I kill mobs much faster, than using fascinate strategy. May be this bard can be effective only in party? May be I must be at least 6/10/20 level? I see that move silently/hide strategy could be more effective. May be even move silently + invisibility.

-fascinates strength depends on the perform skill, which is modified by charisma - but ther perform skill is naturally quite high, regardless of charima.

-You can use mass suggestion on fascinated mobs.

-fascinate is not often used as a tactic due to the speed at which mobs go down and the lack of party cohesion. It tends to be used in specific situations, and epic.

-most people don't tend to use stealth in quests (very often).

[Noyabrina]

-fascinates strength depends on the perform skill, which is modified by charisma - but ther perform skill is naturally quite high, regardless of charima.
-You can use mass suggestion on fascinated mobs.
-fascinate is not often used as a tactic due to the speed at which mobs go down and the lack of party cohesion. It tends to be used in specific situations, and epic.
-most people don't tend to use stealth in quests (very often).

Do you mean spell Mass Suggestion? I think that with low charisma, without any additional penetration you have no chance. I mean feat Suggestion. Do you want to say, that virtuoso's bonuses are absolutely usefull?

[BoBoDaClown]

Do you mean spell Mass Suggestion? I think that with low charisma, without any additional penetration you have no chance. I mean feat Suggestion. Do you want to say, that virtuoso's bonuses are absolutely usefull?

I'm saying the song suggestion = mass suggestion - you can use it with a regular bard, not just virt.

I'm not talking about mass suggestion the spell, which would indeed require investment into cha.

[Zachski]

Wait, doesn't Fascinate actually have a WIDE radius? I coulda sworn that it did...