Dexterity and the Arcane Archer

[xberto]

For anyone intending to play their Arcane Archers into epic content, they should always try and max their dex. Every miss is a lost opportunity to wallop your foe with a 500 point slayer arrow. The damage you gain from strength bonus will not compete in the end game.


I see it advised over and over again in these Arcane Archer threads about how important it is to bump up your stength when in fact it is not...or am I just missing something?

[Tomalon]

Well with a 30 DEX my AA has a +60 to-hit, only misses on a one. The 40 STR makes sure i crit for almost 200 on a FvE. So while Dex is good to have i would have to say STR is equal to a good AA build.

Just my 2cents.

[Uska]

try running an AA in epic content befor making stupid comments

which one are you talking to:confused:

[Visty]

which one are you talking to:confused:

the OP^^

gonna edit my post to make it more clear

[Tomalon]

try running an AA in epic content befor making stupid comments

If you're talking to me i run Epic all the time over 50 DQ and Von 6 completions on my AA along. If you're talking to the OP then nm.

LOL just saw your edit..

[Uska]

the OP^^

gonna edit my post to make it more clear

Thought so just wanted to be sure and I agree

[Uska]

If you're talking to me i run Epic all the time over 50 DQ and Von 6 completions on my AA along. If you're talking to the OP then nm.

LOL just saw your edit..

I think 3 out of four of us are on the same page str>dex besides we cant do arrows 100% even though I would like to

[Tomalon]

I think 3 out of four of us are on the same page str>dex besides we cant do arrows 100% even though I would like to

Yep gotta have some weapons also.

[xberto]

try running an AA in epic content befor making stupid comments
thanks for input

[Uska]

Yep gotta have some weapons also.

that goes without saying and I love my silver bow and my icy burst metaline of pure good bows until I get green steel

[Xyfiel]

I just want to know one thing,

If slayer arrows only hit on a natural 20 and a natural 20 is a hit regardless of to hit/AC, who is missing the opportunity?

[Uska]

I just want to know one thing,

If slayer arrows only hit on a natural 20 and a natural 20 is a hit regardless of to hit/AC, who is missing the opportunity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTnllsSUxS8

thats a good point

[Sweyn]

I just want to know one thing,

If slayer arrows only hit on a natural 20 and a natural 20 is a hit regardless of to hit/AC, who is missing the opportunity?

exactly

[xberto]

I just want to know one thing,

If slayer arrows only hit on a natural 20 and a natural 20 is a hit regardless of to hit/AC, who is missing the opportunity?

laugh it up boys,
The natural 20 is followed by critical confirmation. Your natural 20 is only as good as your second roll to hit. ZING!!!

Before you hurt my feeling anymore, is it really that easy to hit in epic? I dont hit on everything but a 1 in epic. Doesnt seem like it anyway. I havent done the math but I see quite a few misses pop up.

[Antheal]

Your natural 20 is only as good as your second roll to hit.

I've never understood the mechanics behind confirming criticals.

Does this mean that regardless of your skill with a weapon, you ALWAYS have a permanent 5% miss chance from rolling a 1, but for needing to roll twice for every 20, it's actually LESS than 5% for the opposite?

This is probably a subject for another thread, but wouldn't it be fairer to have to "confirm" a critical miss on a 1 too?

As for the topic itself,

I'm thinking about rolling an Elven Arcane Archer, for the Bow bonuses and racial Dexterity enhancements. Will this mean I'll not need to put any Level-Up points into Dex at all?

Would those Level-Up points really be better put into Strength or Constitution?

[xberto]

I've never understood the mechanics behind confirming criticals.

Does this mean that regardless of your skill with a weapon, you ALWAYS have a permanent 5% miss chance from rolling a 1, but for needing to roll twice for every 20, it's actually LESS than 5% for the opposite?

This is probably a subject for another thread, but wouldn't it be fairer to have to "confirm" a critical miss on a 1 too?


A roll of 1 on confirm crit is not an auto miss.

[Antheal]

Sorry I meant rolling a 1 on the to-hit, not on critical confirmation.

You roll a 1 = you miss, with no secondary roll to confirm that you miss.

You roll a 20 = you hit, but you need to roll a second time to confirm that you critically hit.

Is this accurate? It seems a little unfair if you need to roll twice to actually critical, but not to actually miss.

Although saying that, it doesn't take into account weapons that critical on 19-20 or 18-20, so maybe it balances itself out.

I've heard about "Vorpal" attacks that have special effects when a natural 20 is rolled, I'm presuming that no confirmation roll is needed for those?

[Tomalon]

I've heard about "Vorpal" attacks that have special effects when a natural 20 is rolled, I'm presuming that no confirmation roll is needed for those?
Nope you have to confirm your crit for the vorpal to proc also.

[Tomalon]

I've never understood the mechanics behind confirming criticals.

Does this mean that regardless of your skill with a weapon, you ALWAYS have a permanent 5% miss chance from rolling a 1, but for needing to roll twice for every 20, it's actually LESS than 5% for the opposite?

This is probably a subject for another thread, but wouldn't it be fairer to have to "confirm" a critical miss on a 1 too?

As for the topic itself,

I'm thinking about rolling an Elven Arcane Archer, for the Bow bonuses and racial Dexterity enhancements. Will this mean I'll not need to put any Level-Up points into Dex at all?

Would those Level-Up points really be better put into Strength or Constitution?

The way it works: a roll of a 1 is always a miss. a roll of a 20 is always a hit.

Now if your weapon has a 17-20 crit range and lets say for this example that a roll of 17-19 is also a hit for you(as the 20 is always a hit) you have a second roll to confirm if your hit is a crit or just a hit. either way you still hit for normal dmg you're just rolling to see if you do extra DMG.

[Antheal]

Is the roll needed to confirm a critical based on the weapon you're using, your character level, base attack bonus, or none of those?

[Visty]

its a normal hit like the first one you did

[Xenaphon]

How do you get +60 ab with 30 dex?? or even 40 dex (20bab + 10 dex +5 weapon + 3 FE + 4 GH +2 recitation +1 haste + 3 bard +2 elf=50). Maybe if you get +10 for later round attacks. If you could show me the numbers... I miss a lot (maybe 20%) against epic Dq with my 18/2 elven ranger monk with 40dex. Personally, I like getting AB as high as possible. I'm not worried about hitting mobs with 30 AC, I am more worried about hitting mobs with 65 AC because mobs with 65 AC are usually more dangerous. In Epic DQ, someone has to use destruction weapon to lower her AC into mid 50s or it could be a long day.

[barecm]

How do you get +60 ab with 30 dex?? or even 40 dex (20bab + 10 dex +5 weapon + 3 FE + 4 GH +2 recitation +1 haste + 3 bard +2 elf=50). Maybe if you get +10 for later round attacks. If you could show me the numbers... I miss a lot (maybe 20%) against epic Dq with my 18/2 elven ranger monk with 40dex. Personally, I like getting AB as high as possible. I'm not worried about hitting mobs with 30 AC, I am more worried about hitting mobs with 65 AC because mobs with 65 AC are usually more dangerous. In Epic DQ, someone has to use destruction weapon to lower her AC into mid 50s or it could be a long day.


Not sure where the 60 number is coming from either. With an elven AA at 38 dex (16 base, +5 enhancements, lvl ups, +3 tome +3 ToD AA ring) and standing still vs FE - I top out at +56 to hit. If I use the special shot (cool down 1 min) it is a lot higher obviously. However, at a 30 dex I am not too sure how he is getting that high of a +to hit so I throw the red flag down on that.

That being said I rarely miss on Epic DQ on both Superkluege and Kluege (36 dex drow)

[Cyr]

Not sure where the 60 number is coming from either. With an elven AA at 38 dex (16 base, +5 enhancements, lvl ups, +3 tome +3 ToD AA ring) and standing still vs FE - I top out at +56 to hit. If I use the special shot (cool down 1 min) it is a lot higher obviously. However, at a 30 dex I am not too sure how he is getting that high of a +to hit so I through the red flag down on that.

That being said I rarely miss on Epic DQ on both Superkluege and Kluege (36 dex drow)

Yeah I'm not sure about that +60 either.

[Gnorbert]

laugh it up boys,
The natural 20 is followed by critical confirmation. Your natural 20 is only as good as your second roll to hit. ZING!!!


Right... and that Seeker item which isn't factored into your to-hit roll is now helping you confirm. I'm assuming of course that anyone having this discussion about epic quests has access to a bloodstone in case they find they are missing those confirmation rolls.

[maddmatt70]

For anyone intending to play their Arcane Archers into epic content, they should always try and max their dex. Every miss is a lost opportunity to wallop your foe with a 500 point slayer arrow. The damage you gain from strength bonus will not compete in the end game.


I see it advised over and over again in these Arcane Archer threads about how important it is to bump up your stength when in fact it is not...or am I just missing something?

Do you play epic content and what is the gear on your character? I do not have trouble missing with my bow on boomsticks my ranged character so why do you have trouble hitting and feel you need max dex is more the question..

[cyadra]

Going back to the original post. 16 Dex starting is enough on any AA. I would rather dump the extra points into Wis and not get held by some dang shaman at the lower levels. And when you switch out to melee the STR is much much more important than the DEX in my opinion

[grodon9999]

Going back to the original post. 16 Dex starting is enough on any AA. I would rather dump the extra points into Wis and not get held by some dang shaman at the lower levels. And when you switch out to melee the STR is much much more important than the DEX in my opinion

I have this fresh in my clipboard from posting on another build, this will get you 30 Dex and 32 STR (with Ram's might).

Ranger 20 AA (32 Points) Elf
initial
S 17
D 17
C 14
I 8
W 12
C 8

All level ups in STR, +5 Enhancements into Dex, assuming a +2 tome for everything and +6 items for STR, DEX, CON, and Wisdom. I like the SP that wisdom gives and your Will save will suck so you need all the help you can get.

level 20
S 30
D 30
C 22
I 10
W 20
C 10

[Xenaphon]

Lots of people support the idea of max Str for extra damage. Only thing is if you miss 1 more time out of 20 shots then you lose the extra damage of 4 str points if a toon does 40 points of total damage. While there are lots of lower AC mobs in epic (40s or so) there are also very high AC mobs with AC of 60 or even 65. Against these highend mobs you will miss more with lower dex. And every miss will cost you more in dps than if you went with higher dex. If you think killing trash mob (which are usually killed with firewall) is more important than doing higher DPS to DQ, then you should go with higher str. On the otherhand. If you believe doing DPS to EPIC bosses with high AC is more important, go with more dex. Its your choice. And don't believe people who say they never miss with 30dex against Epic DQ.

[barecm]

Lots of people support the idea of max Str for extra damage. Only thing is if you miss 1 more time out of 20 shots then you lose the extra damage of 4 str points if a toon does 40 points of total damage. While there are lots of lower AC mobs in epic (40s or so) there are also very high AC mobs with AC of 60 or even 65. Against these highend mobs you will miss more with lower dex. And every miss will cost you more in dps than if you went with higher dex. If you think killing trash mob (which are usually killed with firewall) is more important than doing higher DPS to DQ, then you should go with higher str. On the otherhand. If you believe doing DPS to EPIC bosses with high AC is more important, go with more dex. Its your choice. And don't believe people who say they never miss with 30dex against Epic DQ.

There is no such thing as "never miss" since a 1 is a 1 and is a miss regardless. So, 95% is best. I think on Epic DQ I miss at about a 2 or 3 maybe, depending on if she is destructed, bard songs, etc..., with my 36 dex drow. I think similarly with 38 dex elf I miss on only a 1 when she is fully debuffed and I have all the +to hit buffs. However if you are running a raid properly, you assume buffs and (improved) destrcution so... I would have to check the numbers though to be 100%. I think I'm off timer tonight.

[Xenaphon]

There is no such thing as "never miss" since a 1 is a 1 and is a miss regardless. So, 95% is best. I think on Epic DQ I miss at about a 2 or 3 maybe, depending on if she is destructed, bard songs, etc..., with my 36 dex drow. I think similarly with 38 dex elf I miss on only a 1 when she is fully debuffed and I have all the +to hit buffs. However if you are running a raid properly, you assume buffs and (improved) destrcution so... I would have to check the numbers though to be 100%. I think I'm off timer tonight.

What do you think her AC is before and after the debuff? If your AB is equal or higher then you are good. From what I have seen, I believe her AC is 64 and debuffed ac is 52. If you can always get at least 51AB, you are good to go as long as she is debuffed. Only thing is you don't always get debuffed AC which means more misses. Also when fighting other highend mobs you don't always get all the debuffs which means they have over 60+ AC. You can build your character for the best of times or the worst of time or something in between. Just remember you will not always get all the buff or mobs get all the debuffs.

[RobbinB]

My personal preference is not to be dependent on having all the buffs. It's always nice to deal with the non-routine type situations. When EPIC content came out and we first tried Wiz-king we went in with a caster, cleric, and tempest ranger. With some difficulty we managed to get to the Wiz king, with no idea what to expect. Of course, things went bad fast and after multiple deaths and no blue bars to speak of we found ourselves hiding in the side alcoves where the Wiz king didn't follow. Our tempest ranger didn't have the weapons or attack bonus to finish Raiyum, unless we wanted to wait all night. Arcane archer with maximum dex and a good bow, we would have finished quite easily.

[barecm]

What do you think her AC is before and after the debuff? If your AB is equal or higher then you are good. From what I have seen, I believe her AC is 64 and debuffed ac is 52. If you can always get at least 51AB, you are good to go as long as she is debuffed. Only thing is you don't always get debuffed AC which means more misses. Also when fighting other highend mobs you don't always get all the debuffs which means they have over 60+ AC. You can build your character for the best of times or the worst of time or something in between. Just remember you will not always get all the buff or mobs get all the debuffs.

In general, it is not a problem. I have all the debuff bows as well as an exhuast clickie that hits decent (greensteel). That is worst case.