Link to epic dq vid

[Quikster]

Ive been getting a lot of questions in pugs about intimitanking dq epic. I posted a vid (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2848966&postcount=36) in another thread and though id link it here, the quality is poor as im a vid newb.

[HeavenlyCloud]

vid newb! ;) Nice video and quite entertaining :O really good strategy for epic DQ considering the damage you are taking.

[Quikster]

vid newb! ;) Nice video.

I know huh. If you only knew the reality of it, i tried 6 different times to get a decent version loaded, that was the best one lol.

[maddmatt70]

I do not believe in shields. Against my religion and takes too long. Just fight from the back and she goes down quicker..

[Cashiry]

I do not believe in shields. Against my religion and takes too long. Just fight from the back and she goes down quicker..

your opinion does not matter.. have a nice day...:cool:

[Quikster]

I do not believe in shields. Against my religion and takes too long. Just fight from the back and she goes down quicker..

good for you. blanket statments like yours help ensure you are incorrect.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

I do not believe in shields. Against my religion and takes too long. Just fight from the back and she goes down quicker..

Comparing it to Shade's earlier video with the 'fight from the back' strategy, she goes down in almost exactly the same amount of time. If you have an intimitank, you can a) put more people in on her in melee and b) have more melees and fewer clerics/rangers. An intimitank group could easily have more melees, and therefore potentially more DPS than an "everyone just beat on her from behind" group. Also, it allows the caster to nuke more effectively.

For example: 1 bard, 1 cleric/fvs, 1 sorc, 1 intimitank, 8 melees
As opposed to: 1 bard, 3 cleric/fvs, 3-4 melees, 1 sorc, 5-6 ranged

[Quikster]

Comparing it to Shade's earlier video with the 'fight from the back' strategy, she goes down in almost exactly the same amount of time.

I agree its pretty similar. Not really sure how much it matters though, a 10 min pug completion is plenty fast. Our dps was a little light as well, I've seen her go down much faster.

[maddmatt70]

Comparing it to Shade's earlier video with the 'fight from the back' strategy, she goes down in almost exactly the same amount of time.

Did a 2-3 rounder last week so no it does not. The reason is one less melee or ranged or spellcaster fighting her because that one person is holding a shield and pressing intimidate over and over.

[Quikster]

Did a 2-3 rounder last week so no it does not. The reason is one less melee or ranged or spellcaster fighting her because that one person is holding a shield and pressing intimidate over and over.

I've done it plenty fast with a tank. You are wrong.

[hasbeen]

not a bad video for a newb + 1 rep :)

[rjedi]

hey quik.... nice piking skillz :D :p ;)

[Quikster]

Did a 2-3 rounder last week so no it does not. The reason is one less melee or ranged or spellcaster fighting her because that one person is holding a shield and pressing intimidate over and over.

holding her still so everyone else can unload on here more than makes up for the loss of one melee, also bringing one less healer would help too. Casters can ensure spells always land on here, nobody needs to range unless they are just super squishy.

All this is moot anyway imo as the raid doesnt take any longer than 10 min or so depending on how buff happy your group is. So really is it a huge deal? IMO its much easier to say, ok we got a cleric, a tank, a caster, lets fill the group with whoever, then have to worry about bringing heavy hitters with enough hp to stand toe to toe with her.

[vyvy3369]

Did a 2-3 rounder last week so no it does not. The reason is one less melee or ranged or spellcaster fighting her because that one person is holding a shield and pressing intimidate over and over.
Keeping her in one spot, with nobody taking any significant damage, is worth a party slot. By your logic, you have 2-3 people doing nothing but casting Heal spells on people and doing 0 DPS, whereas at least a tank is dealing guard damage to her.

A couple runs ago was the fastest I had seen, and it was less than 2 minutes between her first teleporting back to the middle and dying. But hey, there are plenty of ways to do it - quite often we see PUGs forming that are only looking for ranged DPS too. However, when we have an actual tank, the runs tend to go much more smoothly.

[Quikster]

Keeping her in one spot, with nobody taking any significant damage, is worth a party slot. By your logic, you have 2-3 people doing nothing but casting Heal spells on people and doing 0 DPS, whereas at least a tank is dealing guard damage to her.

A couple runs ago was the fastest I had seen, and it was less than 2 minutes between her first teleporting back to the middle and dying. But hey, there are plenty of ways to do it - quite often we see PUGs forming that are only looking for ranged DPS too. However, when we have an actual tank, the runs tend to go much more smoothly.

I still remember a certain guild telling me i couldnt tank her on elite :) Guess that theory is out the window :p

[soupertc]

hey Quik nice video. I was in a run where Henry did that on his tank....it very smooth. Seen Shades video too. We are the ranged DPS Puggers.....just easier that way with 8 to 10 people ya don't know. Always good to see different ways to skin cat...anyone who says the DPS is lackin is not correct. Run I did with you guys was as quick as our runs and Shades video imo.

[Quikster]

hey Quik nice video. I was in a run where Henry did that on his tank....it very smooth. Seen Shades video too. We are the ranged DPS Puggers.....just easier that way with 8 to 10 people ya don't know. Always good to see different ways to skin cat...anyone who says the DPS is lackin is not correct. Run I did with you guys was as quick as our runs and Shades video imo.

Yeah im all about getting completions, if you do that with all dps, ranged, or intimitank, im good with it all. I do like how some people come around with their, "tanks suxor dps pwns" talk though :)

[maddmatt70]

For example: 1 bard, 1 cleric/fvs, 1 sorc, 1 intimitank, 8 melees
As opposed to: 1 bard, 3 cleric/fvs, 3-4 melees, 1 sorc, 5-6 ranged

Who the heck says we run with 3 cleric/fvs.. I have run in there with one bard as healer and no that is not typical, but just this last set had 2 clerics on most runs and even no bard on one of them. An experienced melee knows what to do enough said.

I am overstating things, but the problem I have always had with the one trick pony intimidate characters is two fold: 1. you have to carry them through much of the content while they get the gear especially if we are talking about the super high intimidate shield bearing characters. Fundamentally, they take longer to kill things and contribute less. 2. the whole playstyle is boring. I just hit the intimidate button over and over and the other guys spoon what a bunch of XXXX. In the DQ raid its easy for a melee to melee, a ranged to range, and caster to cast. It is not rocket sceince by any means so why do you Quick need an intimidate character that you have to gimp through all the other raids. We all know you are a solid player so why this drivel.

My guildie cleen has a nice rogue, the hurtlocker, that does good dps, but can throw on the shield and intimidate as do others I know of so I am not totally against or foreign to the concept it is just as a way of things it sucks.

[vyvy3369]

My guildie cleen has a nice rogue, the hurtlocker, that does good dps, but can throw on the shield and intimidate as do others I know of so I am not totally against or foreign to the concept it is just as a way of things it sucks.
...what is it you think we do? I think the only time I see Quik with a shield on is in epic DQ or Hound. Most of the time is spent w/ PA on and TWF'ing, because the extra AC just isn't needed. However, having the ability to switch from DPS mode to AC mode as needed is one of the big perks of being a Fighter.

[Cetus]

awesome vid quick, now lemme ask u- wat intimidate do u need to get her? The numbers were a bit blurry for me to be able to resolve it effectively.

[vyvy3369]

It's DC 80, so +79 is the target.

[Quikster]

Who the heck says we run with 3 cleric/fvs.. I have run in there with one bard as healer and no that is not typical, but just this last set had 2 clerics on most runs and even no bard on one of them. An experienced melee knows what to do enough said.

I am overstating things, but the problem I have always had with the one trick pony intimidate characters is two fold: 1. you have to carry them through much of the content while they get the gear especially if we are talking about the super high intimidate shield bearing characters. Fundamentally, they take longer to kill things and contribute less. 2. the whole playstyle is boring. I just hit the intimidate button over and over and the other guys spoon what a bunch of XXXX. In the DQ raid its easy for a melee to melee, a ranged to range, and caster to cast. It is not rocket sceince by any means so why do you Quick need an intimidate character that you have to gimp through all the other raids. We all know you are a solid player so why this drivel.

My guildie cleen has a nice rogue, the hurtlocker, that does good dps, but can throw on the shield and intimidate as do others I know of so I am not totally against or foreign to the concept it is just as a way of things it sucks.

Lol, just wow. So now im a gimp, ok gotcha. Thanks for the complement.

[Cetus]

So thats a 79 confirmed? Thanks. Awesome method.

[Quikster]

So thats a 79 confirmed? Thanks. Awesome method.

yeah shade confirmed this while still on lamania.

[moops]

As a healer, it blows my mind how much easier this raid is with an intimatank. Last run like this I did with my cleric, not only did I finish with half a blue bar, but most of the SP that I did use was for DPS on the queen. I didnt even have to heal the intimtank much. Its just nice when she stays in one place--its less chaotic, you dont get people getting chopped up because they had a lag spike or were washing their hands:)

[Cashiry]

Who the heck says we run with 3 cleric/fvs.. I have run in there with one bard as healer and no that is not typical, but just this last set had 2 clerics on most runs and even no bard on one of them. An experienced melee knows what to do enough said.

I am overstating things, but the problem I have always had with the one trick pony intimidate characters is two fold: 1. you have to carry them through much of the content while they get the gear especially if we are talking about the super high intimidate shield bearing characters. Fundamentally, they take longer to kill things and contribute less. 2. the whole playstyle is boring. I just hit the intimidate button over and over and the other guys spoon what a bunch of XXXX. In the DQ raid its easy for a melee to melee, a ranged to range, and caster to cast. It is not rocket sceince by any means so why do you Quick need an intimidate character that you have to gimp through all the other raids. We all know you are a solid player so why this drivel.

My guildie cleen has a nice rogue, the hurtlocker, that does good dps, but can throw on the shield and intimidate as do others I know of so I am not totally against or foreign to the concept it is just as a way of things it sucks.

lol...

I can do Epic tanking with a 42 blocking DR, have enough intim to get her on a roll of a 1, and have a 89 raid buffed ac.

TWF Khopesh for all other contetnt.. with a 36 str, and a self buffed 63 ac out of stance, no CE...

There is a time and place to tank up.. and my dps is just fine with PA.... so there are some tank builds who can handle all the content and be effective in any situation.

Build is 18 fighter, 2 pally

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

nice video - next time post the sound so we can hear everyone calling Quik a piker... :)

Garth

[Quikster]

nice video - next time post the sound so we can hear everyone calling Quik a piker... :)

Garth

Ill try to get the quality cleaned up so we can see it in party chat :) course this way i dont have to worry about anyone getting mad i used them in my vid without permission :)

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Who the heck says we run with 3 cleric/fvs.. I have run in there with one bard as healer and no that is not typical, but just this last set had 2 clerics on most runs and even no bard on one of them. An experienced melee knows what to do enough said.

I am overstating things, but the problem I have always had with the one trick pony intimidate characters is two fold: 1. you have to carry them through much of the content while they get the gear especially if we are talking about the super high intimidate shield bearing characters. Fundamentally, they take longer to kill things and contribute less. 2. the whole playstyle is boring. I just hit the intimidate button over and over and the other guys spoon what a bunch of XXXX. In the DQ raid its easy for a melee to melee, a ranged to range, and caster to cast. It is not rocket sceince by any means so why do you Quick need an intimidate character that you have to gimp through all the other raids. We all know you are a solid player so why this drivel.

My guildie cleen has a nice rogue, the hurtlocker, that does good dps, but can throw on the shield and intimidate as do others I know of so I am not totally against or foreign to the concept it is just as a way of things it sucks.

Look, I'm not saying that one way is necessarily significantly better than the other, I'm saying that both can work very effectively and that the difference is very small. I've had the pleasure of running with you in some of your mostly-guild runs of this, and in the two times I've done it with you, we've had 3 healers; that's where I got the number.

As a matter of fact, I have never done this with an intimitank, and every run I've done has been smooth and fast. The no-intimitank method clearly works, and works well. But I take issue with you saying that the intimitank strategy "sucks as a way of doing things"--it clearly works, and it clearly works well also, and if there is any slight difference in time taken, it is hardly noticeable.

Depending on the group makeup, either strategy could potentially work slightly better or worse than the other; to say that one method just plain "sucks" seems a little foolish and dismissive.

Just my 2cp, though.

[Roman]

1. you have to carry them through much of the content while they get the gear especially if we are talking about the super high intimidate shield bearing characters.

That sounds like just about any melee build. Until a build gets properly geared it isnt going to perform at 100%.


Fundamentally, they take longer to kill things and contribute less. 2. the whole playstyle is boring. I just hit the intimidate button over and over ...

Are you really that inconvenienced by the one tank that is killing trash 20% slower? And as for boring, is it all that different than just mashing the attack button over and over?

Personally I like intimi tanks. The problem is that there are so few good ones that pugs are generally not familiar with the tactics available with one and get all bent because they arn't puting out monser DPS. It's just a different approach.

[Judo]

we just go in with 2-3 healers, 1 caster, rest melee

1 "round" (assuming your rounds are what come in between the 2 dm texts)

0 pots

to each his own i guess, dont see the point in belittling another style

unless its hamster style

[Gyries]

Nice vid Quik.

[archangelspeed]

Nice Vid Quik,
it's unfortunate you were called a gimp tank.

mostly cause you're clearly a piker. *smile*

but nice vid. It was hard to see but on average how much was each hit doing?

-Angel

[darkwalker]

nice vid quik and yes imtim is fun i benn using imtim sense beta way back alot didnt use it but i always used it on skidmark and it works wonders skid no 79 intim but he does well with his 50


ps leave quik alone he was nice enough to post a vid on intim the epic dq

[Thelmallen]

to each his own i guess, dont see the point in belittling another style

Good point. Some people just can't seem to understand that, however.

[Verimont]

Hey Quik, how high was your Intim, I couldnt really read the numbers from the video

[Quikster]

Hey Quik, how high was your Intim, I couldnt really read the numbers from the video

in that raid I was at 80.

Shade has been nice enogh to help me get better quality vid, just working out how to get a music track down. Once I get it I'll repost it.

[soupertc]

I thought I would ad this link here to let people see the reaction that there is more than 1 way to do things in this game since it's hard for some to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_S5cXbXe-4

[Quikster]

OK new edit up, should be much easier to see.

[smatt]

holding her still so everyone else can unload on here more than makes up for the loss of one melee, also bringing one less healer would help too. Casters can ensure spells always land on here, nobody needs to range unless they are just super squishy.

All this is moot anyway imo as the raid doesnt take any longer than 10 min or so depending on how buff happy your group is. So really is it a huge deal? IMO its much easier to say, ok we got a cleric, a tank, a caster, lets fill the group with whoever, then have to worry about bringing heavy hitters with enough hp to stand toe to toe with her.


10 minutes... NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! It must be no more thna 9:47.222344534333 Period! :D


Nice Vid!

[Verimont]

OK new edit up, should be much easier to see.

The new video is listed as private. Cant view it.

[Quikster]

The new video is listed as private. Cant view it.

Gah i thought i changed that, brb


K it should work, i got it up on my laptop as a youtube guest. Let me know if its still not working.

[Verimont]

It is still not working for me.

[Quikster]

It is still not working for me.

k in a tod working on it though

[Verimont]

k Take your time, Im just doing nothing right now.

I just would like to see other people strategy on Epic DQ. We're trying to beat her on Orion for another Server First Kill, but she's just overrunning us all.

[Quikster]

k Take your time, Im just doing nothing right now.

I just would like to see other people strategy on Epic DQ. We're trying to beat her on Orion for another Server First Kill, but she's just overrunning us all.

Try it again, i just relinked it with a link that worked for a friend. It may just be a little buggy going from private to shared. Ive hit it signed off and from different cpus as well.

[Verimont]

That worked, thanks a lot. Every bit of info about this raid will help us finally beat it.

+Rep

[soupertc]

sent ya a PM Quik with a heads up.

[Quikster]

That worked, thanks a lot. Every bit of info about this raid will help us finally beat it.

+Rep

No worries. This is just one method. Shade has a nice vid on the first post of this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=227140&highlight=epic+demon+queen+video) thread. That group basically put a barb with a large hp pool, some DR, and the right alignmet out in front of here to keep her from pwning the group. You can also use the ranged method, with a bunch of rangers and casters, though shes quick, and watch the edge :)

The biggest problem with the intimitank method is finding one. Most people cant get a tank up to 80 intim without totally gimping everything else. Its hard to get a huge intim, a good ac, and decent dps all on one build. I had to reincarnate mine twice to do it, get a ton of gear, and im still not there. Ultimately my str will be over 40, umd at 38ish (no feat, currently at 38 with the feat), dex at 30 (currently 25) more con, etc. But right now im still farming +3 tomes(at 15 on most raids :) ), von/abbot gear, my alignment needs to be changed (stupid tr bug), all my epics need upgrading still (stupid losing epic tokens bug) blah blah blah.

Its much easier to find a party of rangers/casters, or big hp dps melee imo. But part of the fun is figuring out what works for you :) GL with your loot when you do beat it.

[maddmatt70]

No worries. This is just one method. Shade has a nice vid on the first post of this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=227140&highlight=epic+demon+queen+video) thread. That group basically put a barb with a large hp pool, some DR, and the right alignmet out in front of here to keep her from pwning the group. You can also use the ranged method, with a bunch of rangers and casters, though shes quick, and watch the edge :)



Bah, that method demonstrated in Shade's video is poor. We just have the melee trail around behind her and fight her at the tail and do not try to hold her in position. Fighting in front has more to do with ego then anything else unless you are intimidating with high dr of course lol. All the clerics, bards and range just move around and keep away from her. We assign a healer to each melee, but if we have more melee then healers (which is norm) we just advise the melee that do not have a healer to be cautious and have the other healers get to those melee second. On khyber the two primary guilds running epic dq2 are the elite raiders and prophets of the new republic and we both use this method of fighting from the rear and moving around. I think smithers who runs with both groups fequently gets about 16 or so epic dq2 in a week. Shade I suppose runs 6+ a week or so I do not run with him so do not know what style he uses and why the heck he would use that style in the video if he still even uses it.



The biggest problem with the intimitank method is finding one. Most people cant get a tank up to 80 intim without totally gimping everything else. Its hard to get a huge intim, a good ac, and decent dps all on one build. I had to reincarnate mine twice to do it, get a ton of gear, and im still not there. Ultimately my str will be over 40, umd at 38ish (no feat, currently at 38 with the feat), dex at 30 (currently 25) more con, etc. But right now im still farming +3 tomes(at 15 on most raids :) ), von/abbot gear, my alignment needs to be changed (stupid tr bug), all my epics need upgrading still (stupid losing epic tokens bug) blah blah blah.

Its much easier to find a party of rangers/casters, or big hp dps melee imo. But part of the fun is figuring out what works for you :) GL with your loot when you do beat it.

Its really alot easier doing it the non intimidate way then you put forth. Just last night did 4 epic dq2s and the most deaths we had on any run was 6 or so and some of the runs were full of pugs.

[soupertc]

Bah, that method demonstrated in Shade's video is poor. We just have the melee trail around behind her and fight her at the tail and do not try hold her in position. Fighting in front has more to do with ego then anything else unless you are intimidating with high dr of course lol. All the clerics, bards and range just move around and keep away from her. We assign a healer to each melee, but if we have more melee then healers (which is norm) we just advice the melee that do not have a healer to be cautious and have the other healers get to those melee second. On khyber the two primary guilds running epic dq2 are the elite raiders and prophets of the new republic and we both use this method of fighting from the rear and moving around. I think smithers who runs with both groups fequently gets about 16 or so epic dq2 in a week. Shade I suppose runs 6+ a week or so I do not run with him so do not know what style he uses and why the heck he would use that style in the video if he still even uses it.



Its really alot easier doing it the non intimidate way then you put forth. Just last night did 4 epic dq2s and the most deaths we had on any run was 6 or so and some of the runs were full of pugs.

I don't run with Quik much but Epic DQ is pwnd alot on Sarlona. When we run it it's normally with me and another guildie and 10 PUGs(we used ranged method..2 Clerics,2 Casters rest Ranged DPS...and yes we finish the whole thing in bout 10 min total from Zone in). We do an EPIC DQ 4 or 5 times a week....only had a failed attempt once....then went back in. When we PUG it's rare we have a death and with plenty of mana left over....in Quiks video the clerics mana bar was pretty full and I don't remember seeing a death(I could be wrong though).

He's not saying it's the best way or better....just saying there is another way to do it is my guess. So don't think your server is the only one doin it....cause we get completions just as much as you guys.

[maddmatt70]

I don't run with Quik much but Epic DQ is pwnd alot on Sarlona. When we run it it's normally with me and another guildie and 10 PUGs(we used ranged method..2 Clerics,2 Casters rest Ranged DPS...and yes we finish the whole thing in bout 10 min total from Zone in). We do an EPIC DQ 4 or 5 times a week....only had a failed attempt once....then went back in. When we PUG it's rare we have a death and with plenty of mana left over....in Quiks video the clerics mana bar was pretty full and I don't remember seeing a death(I could be wrong though).

He's not saying it's the best way or better....just saying there is another way to do it is my guess. So don't think your server is the only one doin it....cause we get completions just as much as you guys.

Oh we generally have melee and ranged and casters all fighting her its nearly always a combination in our groups. Its very rare that its all ranged or all melee for us. I would guess by the trade lists that all the servers are beating dq2 regularly other then it appears Orien.

[moops]

Sarlona does Epic DQ ALOT, I only keep 3 alts on timer atm and I have never run with Soupertecs groups, but the people I usually run with prob keep 5 - 15 alts on timer. Often times there are other LFMs up for it while we are running ours, and usually there will still be a couple other guilds doing al guild runs at the same time--which we know thru chat channels

The group of folx I run with uses all methods including itim when we have one--when there is an intim in the group there is never any discussion on whether to use it or not. It is done. . .And I have to say, Im not sure I've ever seen more than one or two deaths with the intim--most runs are zero with intim, and this seems to always be someone whom miscalculated the blades. We never have to divide up healing since really only 2 people take the majority of damage--some intim dont even need to be healed much at all.

Most intim runs are 10 mins or less. And I really love the queen not running around everywhere--but I don't hate the other methods we use or anything, I just don't think that intim is bad as some of you make it out to be.

Last night again I used a fair amount of my SP on DPS not on heals--cept on the handwasher whom I did forget to heal once lol. Oopsie:)

[Quikster]

Oh we generally have melee and ranged and casters all fighting her its nearly always a combination in our groups. Its very rare that its all ranged or all melee for us. I would guess by the trade lists that all the servers are beating dq2 regularly other then it appears Orien.

Look, I dont think theres only one way to skin a cat. I had lots of questions lately about intimidating the queen, so i put a vid up, thats all.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

For me, it shows that it's a well designed, balanced raid if there are multiple equally valid ways to do it. Devs should take this and apply it to other raids so people aren't always pigeonholed into one method.

Garth

[Yoduus]

Sarlona does Epic DQ ALOT, I only keep 3 alts on timer atm and I have never run
Last night again I used a fair amount of my SP on DPS not on heals--cept on the handwasher whom I did forget to heal once lol. Oopsie:)


how dare you bring the handwasher into this, i blame a gimpy sorc in that run who wouldnt recon for that death, not you hex.

i usually keep 9 of my alts on epic dq timer, b4 this thread gets into a which server is more uber discussion, ill just quickly voice my opinion on my experiences with the approx 200 epic dq i run, ill give grades to all 3 methods in a few categories ranging from class mix viability to player skill requirement for a smooth run, grades A being the best easiest, F being the worst

Ranged

class mix viability D (doing it this way requires rangers or splash rangers involved if you always need to bring in 4or more ppl with range capability then some toons would miss out on the opporutnity to run the raid however i would say when you dont have the other 2 options available, ranged dps is easiest to shortman)
healing pressure A
Player skilset req. A-B (depending on the amount of ranged dps brought in, indicating overall less skills required to pull it off)


Melee

Class mix viability B+ (its not that hard to at least get 1-2 fighter or bard with 40+str 600 or more hp
healing pressure B-C (healers kinda need to skip around the bbs but also heal the main dps being the melee, smart melees would know after beserk to give their healers some time to heal them not just fight to the death if healing is slightly lacking)
Player skillset req. C (pressure mostly on the backup personnel keeping the melee up, the melees themselves just need to have decent gear and a bit of a brain or great build/gear no brain works too)

Intim

Class mix viability F (really hard to find enough well geared intim ppl on a server to do it well)
healing pressure A (easy to heal with just tank taking most dmg which could be absorbed well the party at the bak takes minimal dmg)
Player skillset req. A-B (not too much skills needed, fairly easy to pull off once the intim tank is covered and the other members of the party arent complete morons)


I'll also introduce a much more common method we use on Sarlona at least the runs that im usually involved in

Mixed

Class mix viability A (at least 1 or 2 with some method of ranged dps be it ranger, smart caster, good bb divine class)
healing pressure A-B (keep the key personnel alive, not having to worry abt the whole party, usually 1 or 2 melees in with
Player skillset req. C (not having a very good mix means slower completion time more oppurtunity to go wrong requiring more skills but in general there are enough good players around to pull it off)

note:kiter assumed to be mostly self sufficient in all runs


after a long and maybe somewat pointless response, ill conclude by saying most runs that happen are somewat mixed, Good job uber people, no much point in fighting over which way is better, just play the game.

dont get bogged down by the 'right setup', cover the 2 key roles (kiter and dmg doer, sometimes you even having to combine both). ENJOY THE GAME~

[dulgar]

who The Heck Says We Run With 3 Cleric/fvs.. I Have Run In There With One Bard As Healer And No That Is Not Typical, But Just This Last Set Had 2 Clerics On Most Runs And Even No Bard On One Of Them. An Experienced Melee Knows What To Do Enough Said.

I Am Overstating Things, But The Problem I Have Always Had With The One Trick Pony Intimidate Characters Is Two Fold: 1. You Have To Carry Them Through Much Of The Content While They Get The Gear Especially If We Are Talking About The Super High Intimidate Shield Bearing Characters. Fundamentally, They Take Longer To Kill Things And Contribute Less. 2. The Whole Playstyle Is Boring. I Just Hit The Intimidate Button Over And Over And The Other Guys Spoon What A Bunch Of Xxxx. In The Dq Raid Its Easy For A Melee To Melee, A Ranged To Range, And Caster To Cast. It Is Not Rocket Sceince By Any Means So Why Do You Quick Need An Intimidate Character That You Have To Gimp Through All The Other Raids. We All Know You Are A Solid Player So Why This Drivel.

My Guildie Cleen Has A Nice Rogue, The Hurtlocker, That Does Good Dps, But Can Throw On The Shield And Intimidate As Do Others I Know Of So I Am Not Totally Against Or Foreign To The Concept It Is Just As A Way Of Things It Sucks.

Yaawwwnnnnnnn

[Quikster]

how dare you bring the handwasher into this, i blame a gimpy sorc in that run who wouldnt recon for that death, not you hex.

i usually keep 9 of my alts on epic dq timer, b4 this thread gets into a which server is more uber discussion, ill just quickly voice my opinion on my experiences with the approx 200 epic dq i run, ill give grades to all 3 methods in a few categories ranging from class mix viability to player skill requirement for a smooth run, grades A being the best easiest, F being the worst

Ranged

class mix viability D (doing it this way requires rangers or splash rangers involved if you always need to bring in 4or more ppl with range capability then some toons would miss out on the opporutnity to run the raid however i would say when you dont have the other 2 options available, ranged dps is easiest to shortman)
healing pressure A
Player skilset req. A-B (depending on the amount of ranged dps brought in, indicating overall less skills required to pull it off)


Melee

Class mix viability B+ (its not that hard to at least get 1-2 fighter or bard with 40+str 600 or more hp
healing pressure B-C (healers kinda need to skip around the bbs but also heal the main dps being the melee, smart melees would know after beserk to give their healers some time to heal them not just fight to the death if healing is slightly lacking)
Player skillset req. C (pressure mostly on the backup personnel keeping the melee up, the melees themselves just need to have decent gear and a bit of a brain or great build/gear no brain works too)

Intim

Class mix viability F (really hard to find enough well geared intim ppl on a server to do it well)
healing pressure A (easy to heal with just tank taking most dmg which could be absorbed well the party at the bak takes minimal dmg)
Player skillset req. A-B (not too much skills needed, fairly easy to pull off once the intim tank is covered and the other members of the party arent complete morons)


I'll also introduce a much more common method we use on Sarlona at least the runs that im usually involved in

Mixed

Class mix viability A (at least 1 or 2 with some method of ranged dps be it ranger, smart caster, good bb divine class)
healing pressure A-B (keep the key personnel alive, not having to worry abt the whole party, usually 1 or 2 melees in with
Player skillset req. C (not having a very good mix means slower completion time more oppurtunity to go wrong requiring more skills but in general there are enough good players around to pull it off)

note:kiter assumed to be mostly self sufficient in all runs


after a long and maybe somewat pointless response, ill conclude by saying most runs that happen are somewat mixed, Good job uber people, no much point in fighting over which way is better, just play the game.

dont get bogged down by the 'right setup', cover the 2 key roles (kiter and dmg doer, sometimes you even having to combine both). ENJOY THE GAME~


I think Matts point was that while able to intim well in epic dq, Im gimped in everyother raid in the game and must be carried through (due to my build, not due to pikeing/handwashing etc.) So, thanks for carrying me through all the other raids so I can shine in epic dq :)

[Shade]

Nice video. Cool to see more of these. Greatjob on the quality encode after you figured it out.

It's cool to see the other strategy pulled off by a good group.

But, to me it doesn't change any opinions on what I think a melee should bring to that raid.. Just shows me that you had a great group, and that 4 rangers can really do solid DPS to her.

Your rangers bring her to the platform around twice as fast as my group. and kept the damage constant for the couple time she leaves the platform later on. I don't see any advantage in melee DPS there, proper epic melee have no trouble fighting her straight up, just have to know when to back off for a second.

On Khyber there are very few actual ranged-spec rangers that run the raid, so I very rarely worry about recruiting many. Last 5 runs or so we had no rangers at all, and all were just as fast and easy. But when we do take one, especially one in my guild who plays purely as ranged all the time and is maxxed out gear-wise, he brings her to the platform like 10 times faster, it's quite a huge difference.

In my video the 2 rangers we did have are both full melee spec DPS Tempest Dwarf builds, they do decent ranged dps, but not nearly what a fully spec arcane archer can do.

Re: Piking..
I'd wager a guess that if you instead stood in the corner and did nothing the outcome of the raid would of been the same. Perhaps in a weaker group with allot less rangers I could see your tank being a key member critical to the success of the raid.

[valorik]

Re: Piking..
I'd wager a guess that if you instead stood in the corner and did nothing the outcome of the raid would of been the same. Perhaps in a weaker group with allot less rangers I could see your tank being a key member critical to the success of the raid.

I've been in a run when we were fairly new and short on rangers where the tank was tk'd off, we failed, did it with the tank a minute later and it was MUCH smoother, you could say we were a weak group, but we weren't. I defintiely think the tank brings a ton to the group in terms of damage management and adds more to dps than he takes away if say a twf barb joined. thf tends to do better in intimi-less tanks since they don't lose near as much damage moving, so your view could be skewed.

[Quikster]

Nice video. Cool to see more of these. Greatjob on the quality encode after you figured it out.

It's cool to see the other strategy pulled off by a good group.

But, to me it doesn't change any opinions on what I think a melee should bring to that raid.. Just shows me that you had a great group, and that 4 rangers can really do solid DPS to her.

Your rangers bring her to the platform around twice as fast as my group. and kept the damage constant for the couple time she leaves the platform later on. I don't see any advantage in melee DPS there, proper epic melee have no trouble fighting her straight up, just have to know when to back off for a second.

On Khyber there are very few actual ranged-spec rangers that run the raid, so I very rarely worry about recruiting many. Last 5 runs or so we had no rangers at all, and all were just as fast and easy. But when we do take one, especially one in my guild who plays purely as ranged all the time and is maxxed out gear-wise, he brings her to the platform like 10 times faster, it's quite a huge difference.

In my video the 2 rangers we did have are both full melee spec DPS Tempest Dwarf builds, they do decent ranged dps, but not nearly what a fully spec arcane archer can do.

Re: Piking..
I'd wager a guess that if you instead stood in the corner and did nothing the outcome of the raid would of been the same. Perhaps in a weaker group with allot less rangers I could see your tank being a key member critical to the success of the raid.

usually it goes something like this:

chat 1-epic dq who wants in?
chat 1-me.

thats usually how we fill, we dont look for a tank per say. When im there on this guy, i intimidate her, when im in on my healer, i heal and dps her, when im on heavy hitting melee i melee her, when im in on alts that can range i range her, you get the point.

The point of this video was never to say anyone needs an intimitank. The point was to show the people that wanted to see the raid done using an intimitank.

Imo having someone hold her in one spot makes the raid easier and smoother. Is it by anymeans necessary? No.

Im sure the result would have been the same if i was piking considering one of our group has soloed it. Most of the people we usually run with are solid on any alt they have.

BTW thanks a bunch for the help with the vid.

I never expected anyone to watch this vid and say, ohh we gotta get one of those tanks, and especially not people like you who have made it well known on these forums that big dps is the only way they roll. I just happen to have a different view of this game is all. Im not some newb who thinks that intimitanks should be running around in a shield all the time and constantly intimitanking. The build in the vid is capable of dealing out damage, not max dps type, but good solid consistent damage. I enjoy playing it, and can contribute to all groups at the highest levels of the game.

[Shiler]

My 5 cents.
You can be intimitank in DQ? Awsome, Welcome in my group and take her.
You can Melee the queen, ok we will keep you alive go for it.
You can range her, ok save manyshot for war part and go for it.

I mean every tactics there is valid, and as long as you can use her to complete, Your welcome in group.

Keep up the good work Quick :)

[Verimont]

I still thought it was a great video. I just wish we could get enough people geared out on Orion to be able to run the Queen regularly. And not to mention actually be able to kill her and not run around like a chicken wwith his head cut off (yet still able to chug down 15+ mana pots).

[Quikster]

I still thought it was a great video. I just wish we could get enough people geared out on Orion to be able to run the Queen regularly. And not to mention actually be able to kill her and not run around like a chicken wwith his head cut off (yet still able to chug down 15+ mana pots).

glad you enjoyed it :)

[SEMPER]

Nice video. Cool to see more of these. Greatjob on the quality encode after you figured it out.

It's cool to see the other strategy pulled off by a good group.

But, to me it doesn't change any opinions on what I think a melee should bring to that raid.. Just shows me that you had a great group, and that 4 rangers can really do solid DPS to her.

Your rangers bring her to the platform around twice as fast as my group. and kept the damage constant for the couple time she leaves the platform later on. I don't see any advantage in melee DPS there, proper epic melee have no trouble fighting her straight up, just have to know when to back off for a second.

On Khyber there are very few actual ranged-spec rangers that run the raid, so I very rarely worry about recruiting many. Last 5 runs or so we had no rangers at all, and all were just as fast and easy. But when we do take one, especially one in my guild who plays purely as ranged all the time and is maxxed out gear-wise, he brings her to the platform like 10 times faster, it's quite a huge difference.

In my video the 2 rangers we did have are both full melee spec DPS Tempest Dwarf builds, they do decent ranged dps, but not nearly what a fully spec arcane archer can do.

Re: Piking..
I'd wager a guess that if you instead stood in the corner and did nothing the outcome of the raid would of been the same. Perhaps in a weaker group with allot less rangers I could see your tank being a key member critical to the success of the raid.

Funny thing is I'm pretty sure none of the rangers in the Vid were spec'd for ranged dps all were twf 's , but either way any ranger / let alone someone with a bow can do nice damage and enough damage to get her back down , i'm sure a arcane archer would be best but anyone with a bow is good enough imho